Thoughts on veganism?
Replies
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astronomicals wrote: »
Trolling or clueless?Need2Exerc1se wrote: »astronomicals wrote: »thecycleofhappiness wrote: »Chief_Rocka wrote: »I disagree with the idea that the use of animal products is unethical.
Though I respect your opinion, and I agree that the use of animal products isn't all that bad, but the way we get these products is pretty messed up. Its sick.
You dont sound vegan to me. It sounds like you have no issue with family farm raised and slaughtered animals. Sounds more like ya watched a few netflix documentaries and got appalled by the food industry conglomerates. Thats not veganism.
Im gonna go put on some wool socks and rake some leaves.
Veganism has do with what you eat and nothing else.
Neither. Just someone that knows the meaning of the word "vegan".0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »astronomicals wrote: »
Trolling or clueless?Need2Exerc1se wrote: »astronomicals wrote: »thecycleofhappiness wrote: »Chief_Rocka wrote: »I disagree with the idea that the use of animal products is unethical.
Though I respect your opinion, and I agree that the use of animal products isn't all that bad, but the way we get these products is pretty messed up. Its sick.
You dont sound vegan to me. It sounds like you have no issue with family farm raised and slaughtered animals. Sounds more like ya watched a few netflix documentaries and got appalled by the food industry conglomerates. Thats not veganism.
Im gonna go put on some wool socks and rake some leaves.
Veganism has do with what you eat and nothing else.
Neither. Just someone that knows the meaning of the word "vegan".
Not according to the American Vegan Society:
"VEGANS (pronounced VEE-guns) Live on products of the plant kingdom. Veganism is compassion in action. It is a philosophy, diet, and lifestyle.
Veganism is an advanced way of living in accordance with Reverence for Life, recognizing the rights of all living creatures, and extending to them the compassion, kindness, and justice exemplified in the Golden Rule.
Vegans eat solely from the plant kingdom: vegetables, fruits, legumes, grains, nuts and seeds. Vegans express nonviolence towards animals and the Earth.
AVS promotes good health practices and harmonious living.
Vegans exclude flesh, fish, fowl, dairy products (animal milk, butter, cheese, yogurt, etc.), eggs, honey, animal gelatin, and all other foods of animal origin.
Veganism also excludes animal products such as leather, wool, fur, and silk in clothing, upholstery, etc. Vegans usually make efforts to avoid the less-than-obvious animal oils, secretions, etc., in many products such as soaps, cosmetics, toiletries, household goods and other common commodities."
Source: http://www.americanvegan.org/vegan.htm
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Boom goes the dynamite.
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I have to say, I love the term "artisan".
I make bread, bacon. Once I slap an artisan sticker and affectation on my bacon, I've been selling it for $20 a pound to hipsters, while everyone else gets it at $10 a pound.
I know! some people go nuts with the "artisan" thing... but well, how do you define a product that is made without the industrial standards? organic? artisan? homegrown? pirate? 
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Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Chocolate? Nope.
I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vegan
veg·an
noun \ˈvē-gən also ˈvā- also ˈve-jən or -ˌjan\
: a person who does not eat any food that comes from animals and who often also does not use animal products (such as leather)
Using petroleum and getting vaccines does not mean one doesn't have a vegan diet.0 -
Oh I'm sorry, I thought you caught it, but since you didn't.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Chocolate? Nope.
I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vegan
veg·an
noun \ˈvē-gən also ˈvā- also ˈve-jən or -ˌjan\
: a person who does not eat any food that comes from animals and who often also does not use animal products (such as leather)
Using petroleum and getting vaccines does not mean one doesn't have a vegan diet.acheben wrote:Not according to the American Vegan Society:
"VEGANS (pronounced VEE-guns) Live on products of the plant kingdom. Veganism is compassion in action. It is a philosophy, diet, and lifestyle.
Veganism is an advanced way of living in accordance with Reverence for Life, recognizing the rights of all living creatures, and extending to them the compassion, kindness, and justice exemplified in the Golden Rule.
Vegans eat solely from the plant kingdom: vegetables, fruits, legumes, grains, nuts and seeds. Vegans express nonviolence towards animals and the Earth.
AVS promotes good health practices and harmonious living.
Vegans exclude flesh, fish, fowl, dairy products (animal milk, butter, cheese, yogurt, etc.), eggs, honey, animal gelatin, and all other foods of animal origin.
Veganism also excludes animal products such as leather, wool, fur, and silk in clothing, upholstery, etc. Vegans usually make efforts to avoid the less-than-obvious animal oils, secretions, etc., in many products such as soaps, cosmetics, toiletries, household goods and other common commodities."
Source: http://www.americanvegan.org/vegan.htm
That makes it crystal clear. Your definition is irrelevant. -1 -
I'm not vegan nor will I ever be vegan. I say to each their own, whatever floats your boat.0
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jcastaneda158 wrote: »I have to say, I love the term "artisan".
I make bread, bacon. Once I slap an artisan sticker and affectation on my bacon, I've been selling it for $20 a pound to hipsters, while everyone else gets it at $10 a pound. I know! some people go nuts with the "artisan" thing... but well, how do you define a product that is made without the industrial standards? organic? artisan? homegrown? pirate?
I like "Normal". However, calling something normal doesn't increase my profit margin, so it's craft, or small batch, or artisan.
I saw a place selling granola in Portland Oregon. (Surprise, right?) They had it labeled "Craft, Small Batch, Artisan Granola made with Hand Raised Organic Ingredients."
Seriously, that's what the sticker on the bag read. 4 serving bag, (200gr) $6 per serving.
I was in awe, because not only did they have the stones to sell at that price, most flavors were sold out.0 -
Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Chocolate? Nope.
I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.
And you can add most beer to the above list ( fish bladders used for processing)0 -
Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Chocolate? Nope.
I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.
And you can add most beer to the above list ( fish bladders used for processing)
Wouldn't it be out anyway? Because of the yeast?0 -
claraoswold wrote: »Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Chocolate? Nope.
I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.
And you can add most beer to the above list ( fish bladders used for processing)
Wouldn't it be out anyway? Because of the yeast?
Yeast is more akin to a mold to be very generic, it's definitely not an animal.
Isinglass isn't really used in non BMC beers. If it is a craft beer, they probably don't use isinglass, as there isn't a need to get crystal clear. Bud, Miller, Coors however use isinglass for a few reasons, one being cost, another is consistent product, and as a method of reducing flavor in the finished product.
Stick with good beers and it's not an issue. 0 -
claraoswold wrote: »Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Chocolate? Nope.
I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.
And you can add most beer to the above list ( fish bladders used for processing)
Wouldn't it be out anyway? Because of the yeast?
If the term " living creatures" applies to fungus (which yeast is according to my Google "research" )0 -
Easy test: Can vegans eat mushrooms?claraoswold wrote: »Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Chocolate? Nope.
I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.
And you can add most beer to the above list ( fish bladders used for processing)
Wouldn't it be out anyway? Because of the yeast?
If the term " living creatures" applies to fungus (which yeast is according to my Google "research" )
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Oh I'm sorry, I thought you caught it, but since you didn't.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Chocolate? Nope.
I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vegan
veg·an
noun \ˈvē-gən also ˈvā- also ˈve-jən or -ˌjan\
: a person who does not eat any food that comes from animals and who often also does not use animal products (such as leather)
Using petroleum and getting vaccines does not mean one doesn't have a vegan diet.acheben wrote:Not according to the American Vegan Society:
"VEGANS (pronounced VEE-guns) Live on products of the plant kingdom. Veganism is compassion in action. It is a philosophy, diet, and lifestyle.
Veganism is an advanced way of living in accordance with Reverence for Life, recognizing the rights of all living creatures, and extending to them the compassion, kindness, and justice exemplified in the Golden Rule.
Vegans eat solely from the plant kingdom: vegetables, fruits, legumes, grains, nuts and seeds. Vegans express nonviolence towards animals and the Earth.
AVS promotes good health practices and harmonious living.
Vegans exclude flesh, fish, fowl, dairy products (animal milk, butter, cheese, yogurt, etc.), eggs, honey, animal gelatin, and all other foods of animal origin.
Veganism also excludes animal products such as leather, wool, fur, and silk in clothing, upholstery, etc. Vegans usually make efforts to avoid the less-than-obvious animal oils, secretions, etc., in many products such as soaps, cosmetics, toiletries, household goods and other common commodities."
Source: http://www.americanvegan.org/vegan.htm
That makes it crystal clear. Your definition is irrelevant.
Yeah, dictionaries are such stupid places to look for word definitions.
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Chickens will eat about anything and love vegetables, fruit and many flowers. And bugs.0 -
Easy test: Can vegans eat mushrooms?claraoswold wrote: »Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Chocolate? Nope.
I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.
And you can add most beer to the above list ( fish bladders used for processing)
Wouldn't it be out anyway? Because of the yeast?
If the term " living creatures" applies to fungus (which yeast is according to my Google "research" )
Plants are living things too. They are alive and they are sensitive. They respond to changes in the environment... they have feelings. They can detect damage to themselves and respond to it.
There comes a point at which we just have to accept that we are animals and as such incapable of photosynthesising, and therefore dependent on ingesting other organisms to get the energy to stay alive.
This is one of my all time favourite threads: community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1332132/looking-for-fooditarian-friends0 -
That's because we've been raising them that way. But they're classified as an insectivore much like a robin would be.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Chickens will eat about anything and love vegetables, fruit and many flowers. And bugs.
A cat is a carnivore, but will eat grass.
Deer will eat birds if they can get hold of them - this one freaked me right out when I saw the Youtube video of a deer eating a bird...
There are exceptions for every animal.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Oh I'm sorry, I thought you caught it, but since you didn't.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Chocolate? Nope.
I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vegan
veg·an
noun \ˈvē-gən also ˈvā- also ˈve-jən or -ˌjan\
: a person who does not eat any food that comes from animals and who often also does not use animal products (such as leather)
Using petroleum and getting vaccines does not mean one doesn't have a vegan diet.acheben wrote:Not according to the American Vegan Society:
"VEGANS (pronounced VEE-guns) Live on products of the plant kingdom. Veganism is compassion in action. It is a philosophy, diet, and lifestyle.
Veganism is an advanced way of living in accordance with Reverence for Life, recognizing the rights of all living creatures, and extending to them the compassion, kindness, and justice exemplified in the Golden Rule.
Vegans eat solely from the plant kingdom: vegetables, fruits, legumes, grains, nuts and seeds. Vegans express nonviolence towards animals and the Earth.
AVS promotes good health practices and harmonious living.
Vegans exclude flesh, fish, fowl, dairy products (animal milk, butter, cheese, yogurt, etc.), eggs, honey, animal gelatin, and all other foods of animal origin.
Veganism also excludes animal products such as leather, wool, fur, and silk in clothing, upholstery, etc. Vegans usually make efforts to avoid the less-than-obvious animal oils, secretions, etc., in many products such as soaps, cosmetics, toiletries, household goods and other common commodities."
Source: http://www.americanvegan.org/vegan.htm
That makes it crystal clear. Your definition is irrelevant.
Yeah, dictionaries are such stupid places to look for word definitions.
Not generally. However, when talking about a fringe religion, cult, or anything like that, it's not going to give an entire context or definition. You know that. 0 -
If I were moved to avoid factory farm produced animal products, I would seek out "ethically raised" animal products. Because of cost, that might mean I'd have to reduce the amount of animal products in my diet, but that wouldn't be the same as totally eliminating them on principal.
Veganism seems like the most extreme option and mostly for people who have a moral objection to the very idea of animal products.
While I respect the right of everyone to have any opinion they choose, I don't think that particular opinion makes sense considering our biology. Humans are omnivores biologically. Trying to fight that seems like an unnecessary PITA.
Agreed. Same perspective.0 -
neandermagnon wrote: »
Easy test: Can vegans eat mushrooms?claraoswold wrote: »Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Chocolate? Nope.
I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.
And you can add most beer to the above list ( fish bladders used for processing)
Wouldn't it be out anyway? Because of the yeast?
If the term " living creatures" applies to fungus (which yeast is according to my Google "research" )
Plants are living things too. They are alive and they are sensitive. They respond to changes in the environment... they have feelings. They can detect damage to themselves and respond to it.
There comes a point at which we just have to accept that we are animals and as such incapable of photosynthesising, and therefore dependent on ingesting other organisms to get the energy to stay alive.
This is one of my all time favourite threads: community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1332132/looking-for-fooditarian-friends
Careful, calling plants living things that can sense their environment can create an inconvenient issue for the more ardent vegans.
it's like the philsopher who argues that doing research on bacteria is immoral because they can sense stimulus. Meaning they have feelings.... lol0 -
That's because we've been raising them that way. But they're classified as an insectivore much like a robin would be.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Chickens will eat about anything and love vegetables, fruit and many flowers. And bugs.
A cat is a carnivore, but will eat grass.
Deer will eat birds if they can get hold of them - they do so for extra calcium.
There are exceptions for every animal.
I don't know how far back in the history of chickens you'd have to go to find a chicken that would only eat bugs if also offered plants, but chickens of today are not like that. They don't eat plants because we give them plants, they eat them because they like them. When let loose to roam and forage for their own food, they will eat plants and bugs and sometimes lizards and mice. And if you let them loose in your garden to help get rid of bugs, they will gladly feast on some of your vegetables and fruit as well.0 -
neandermagnon wrote: »
Easy test: Can vegans eat mushrooms?claraoswold wrote: »Let's make sure it's understood, just the impact of REAL veganism, and not the pogue-ish half play most make at it.
There are fewer vaccines and medical treatments you can avail yourself of, thanks to the use of hermit crabs, and animal products used in the making of vaccines.
Oh, snake anti-venin? Right out.
Gas for your car? Better switch to corn based ethanol, because petroleum is an animal product.
That sweet leather jacket? Nope.
Red dye - for the most part, nope.
Chocolate? Nope.
I can go on, but let's make sure, if you're going vegan. Go vegan.
And you can add most beer to the above list ( fish bladders used for processing)
Wouldn't it be out anyway? Because of the yeast?
If the term " living creatures" applies to fungus (which yeast is according to my Google "research" )
Plants are living things too. They are alive and they are sensitive. They respond to changes in the environment... they have feelings. They can detect damage to themselves and respond to it.
There comes a point at which we just have to accept that we are animals and as such incapable of photosynthesising, and therefore dependent on ingesting other organisms to get the energy to stay alive.
This is one of my all time favourite threads: community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1332132/looking-for-fooditarian-friends
Careful, calling plants living things that can sense their environment can create an inconvenient issue for the more ardent vegans.
it's like the philsopher who argues that doing research on bacteria is immoral because they can sense stimulus. Meaning they have feelings.... lol
That is the problem, because where do you draw the line in all this? We're animals, i.e. we have to eat other organisms to survive. The idea of breatharianism is a very nice one, just living directly off sunlight and air......... BUT animals haven't evolved the ability to photosynthesise in 600 million years so a few nut job humans aren't going to wishfully think their way into photosynthesising. They just have to accept that they're not plants and never will be.
I'm an omnivore and so I eat an omnivorous diet, because that's what my species evolved to eat. And I have been vegan in the past, and I feel a lot better for eating meat (including red meat) and dairy products. And yes I was careful to eat all the right foods to get the full range of nutrients. I just function better on an omnivorous diet that includes dairy products (and yes I did evolve to eat those too, because I'm European, i.e. descended from a few thousand years of dairy farming. Evolution didn't stop when we evolved vertical foreheads and pointy chins.)
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neandermagnon wrote: »That is the problem, because where do you draw the line in all this? We're animals, i.e. we have to eat other organisms to survive. The idea of breatharianism is a very nice one, just living directly off sunlight and air......... BUT animals haven't evolved the ability to photosynthesise in 600 million years so a few nut job humans aren't going to wishfully think their way into photosynthesising. They just have to accept that they're not plants and never will be.
I'm an omnivore and so I eat an omnivorous diet, because that's what my species evolved to eat. And I have been vegan in the past, and I feel a lot better for eating meat (including red meat) and dairy products. And yes I was careful to eat all the right foods to get the full range of nutrients. I just function better on an omnivorous diet that includes dairy products (and yes I did evolve to eat those too, because I'm European, i.e. descended from a few thousand years of dairy farming. Evolution didn't stop when we evolved vertical foreheads and pointy chins.)
I'll be honest, I've never understood the desire for some to take on special affectations. Be it hipsters, fops, mods, goths, herps, derps, nerds, vegans, cultists... Is it a desire to be part of something insular to feel protected from the overall society at large? Is it a shield to protect themselves?
We're omnivores, we kill, we eat. Some of us may not like it, but it is what it is. I wonder how many vegans actually care about animal bykill from farmed crops? Imagine the conflict if they saw what a combine does to a rabbit caught in a field?0 -
I think it boils down to the fact that we need to all stop living by labels and just do what feels *right* to you. If you feel it's right to eat meat, eat it! (Although even the biggest meat lovers out there would have to agree that the current industry practices are pretty appalling). Same goes for eggs...dairy...honey...leather, etc. etc. Live by your own ethics, no one else's. Personally, my diet would be considered mainly vegan, but I do eat eggs, but only from a local farmer, and I eat honey (also a local guy down the road who raises bees). Some may disagree with me on that, and that's ok...but I can sleep at night with my choices. Do what allows you to sleep at night! You only have yourself to answer to.0
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So your diet is considered an omnivore's diet with an emphasis on plant matter.0
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My opinion is that there are no health benefits to eating vegan. You can be an unhealthy vegan just as easily as an unhealthy omnivore. As far as ethics go, I'm all for not torturing animals, but humans exist at the top of the food chain for a reason. Animals are here to feed and sustain us. It is our job to use them responsibly and treat the humanely, but I think it's completely asinine to assign human emotions to animals, and declare that they deserve the same rights I do. It's an ANIMAL. They have the right to be delicious, and nothing more.0
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I was and enjoyed being vegan for many years. I do find it's easier when you are in a progressive area, though. I've stopped because I acquired anemia and my ethics no longer aligned 100% w/veganism, so I am now a pescetarian. Best of luck on your journey.0
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I think it boils down to the fact that we need to all stop living by labels and just do what feels *right* to you. If you feel it's right to eat meat, eat it! (Although even the biggest meat lovers out there would have to agree that the current industry practices are pretty appalling). Same goes for eggs...dairy...honey...leather, etc. etc. Live by your own ethics, no one else's. Personally, my diet would be considered mainly vegan, but I do eat eggs, but only from a local farmer, and I eat honey (also a local guy down the road who raises bees). Some may disagree with me on that, and that's ok...but I can sleep at night with my choices. Do what allows you to sleep at night! You only have yourself to answer to.
well said. Speaking of honey, have you seen my honey post? The pitchforks are out! lol0 -
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