Food addiction, Over eating is very similar to Alcoholism and other addictions..
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+1TL:DR but wow there are some really butt-hurt people in here. I don't think the OP was trying to diminish the severity of these "real" addictions like alcoholism or drug addiction..but you can't deny some of the similarities.
That feeling that you NEED it. Feeling out of control while doing it. Feeling remorse and shame afterward. If the 12 steps help her toward her journey, then great! awesome!
Everyone needs to calmmmmm down.
Sources: Alcoholic father and drug addicted brother currently serving 10 yr sentence.
YES, she is diminishing the severity of them, as proven in this statementCiciRoscoe wrote: »Now food addiction may not be as severe but ... is it? Maybe.-1 -
I never said that "hitting rock bottom" was a requirement for addiction.TheVirgoddess wrote: »Wrong answer.
Alcohol is a drug, so potentially addictive. A Burger King whopper is not a drug so saying it is an addiction is just living in denial.
Agreed. To compare drug addiction or Alcoholism to over eating, binge eating etc is well minimizing what true addicts actually have to go through to beat it.
When you steal, lose your job, sell your body and basically do whatever you have to do to get that next whopper you let me know...
When you actually get physical ill because you couldn't have that whole pizza let me know
When you become homeless because you spent all your money on KFC let me know
Otherwise no.
I don't know - I was addicted to nicotine and I had none of those side effects. I quit, on my own. But that doesn't mean I wasn't addicted.
Addiction doesn't mean you have to lose everything or hit rock bottom for it to "count". It just means you compulsively engage in rewarding behaviors despite the consequences. And I think that food can absolutely be a rewarding behavior for many. I've never had emotion tied into food for me, so I can't imagine how difficult it can be to overcome.
But smoking has been proven to be physically addictive...there are studies that show it.
Side effects from quitting smoking are varied such as cravings, sleeplessness, tiredness, nausea, anxiety, frustration, increased appetite to control the oral fixation, headaches etc
If you stop over eating there are no physical side effects except perhaps weight loss...
Addiction doesn't mean engaging in compulsively despite the consequences...there are actually physical changes in your brain chemistry that happen....that is addiction.
Going to food for comfort is a learned behaviour that does not lead to anything other than being overweight, underlying emotional issues but it does not change your brain chemistry.
Oh and btw buying smokes instead of milk for your baby is pretty low..and I've seen lots of people do that.
No, you didn't say hitting rock bottom was a requirement. Those were my words, and I'm sorry if you felt I was applying them to you.
Smoking is physically addictive. Quitting sucked. It's my one year anniversary of not smoking today, in fact.
I thought that eating things, especially sweet/salty things did create a chemical reaction in the brain? Dopamine trigger I think? I'll try to find something to cite here - oh here - this was interesting: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-food-addiction. I'll look some more.
I'm not just talking about overweight people - I got fat because I ate too much. But I do think in some cases there is a real addiction to food or eating (two different responses maybe). Perhaps not as prevalent as some would like to think, and certainly not something to be self diagnosed.
And I do understand the frustration of someone comparing something as potentially devastating as alcoholism or drug addiction to food - or blaming their obesity on addiction without any sort of foundation to base it off of.0 -
My point was that the OP meant no offense, I'm sure. I know this topic stirs up a lot of emotion in people, and rightfully so. OP was simply drawing a conclusion from a meeting they attended and wanted to share. Alcoholism has been a devastating part of my family, so I get it, but I don't take offense to the parallels the OP was trying to point out, albeit via a flawed delivery.Liftng4Lis wrote: »
+1TL:DR but wow there are some really butt-hurt people in here. I don't think the OP was trying to diminish the severity of these "real" addictions like alcoholism or drug addiction..but you can't deny some of the similarities.
That feeling that you NEED it. Feeling out of control while doing it. Feeling remorse and shame afterward. If the 12 steps help her toward her journey, then great! awesome!
Everyone needs to calmmmmm down.
Sources: Alcoholic father and drug addicted brother currently serving 10 yr sentence.
YES, she is diminishing the severity of them, as proven in this statementCiciRoscoe wrote: »Now food addiction may not be as severe but ... is it? Maybe.
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I'm reading this thread with great interest but I have to go to an appt now, so bookmarking for later. In the meantime, has anyone brought up the chemical responses in the brain to overeating? Not saying I agree or disagree with it...don't know enough about it...but is it possible to become addicted to those chemicals?
http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Food-Addiction-Overeating-Compulsive/dp/09360771310 -
This.Wrong answer.
Alcohol is a drug, so potentially addictive. A Burger King whopper is not a drug so saying it is an addiction is just living in denial.
Agreed. To compare drug addiction or Alcoholism to over eating, binge eating etc is well minimizing what true addicts actually have to go through to beat it.
When you steal, lose your job, sell your body and basically do whatever you have to do to get that next whopper you let me know...
When you actually get physical ill because you couldn't have that whole pizza let me know
When you become homeless because you spent all your money on KFC let me know
Otherwise no.
There is no comparison between alcoholism or drug addiction and eating too much food.
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Are we really gonna argue about which one is WORSE? It's apples to oranges. And those advocating for the substance abuse side, please don't diminish the mental health aspect of an eating disorder or disordered view of food.
You all sound incredibly silly. "when you get physically ill because you couldn't have that whole pizza, let me know" ? Really?? Congrats, you win the martyr award.
Just because someone else's battle is different from yours doesn't make it any less important or any less crippling, for THEM.-1 -
Are we really gonna argue about which one is WORSE? It's apples to oranges. And those advocating for the substance abuse side, please don't diminish the mental health aspect of an eating disorder or disordered view of food.
You all sound incredibly silly. "when you get physically ill because you couldn't have that whole pizza, let me know" ? Really?? Congrats, you win the martyr award.
Just because someone else's battle is different from yours doesn't make it any less important or any less crippling, for THEM.
I am not a former addict of anything so no I am not a martyr nor looking for an award, but a true addict get's ill if they don't get their fix...physically ill vomitting, shakes, convulsions...ever see that when someone didn't get an extra helping?
And if you had read all comments a lot of have said "it is hard dealing with eating disorders mainly because of the underlying emotional issues involved"
It's not about "the battle" it's about comparing a physical addiction that you will always have no matter what and emotional issues that you can overcome with help from professionals...and over eating (not all ED's) can't even compare in the battle to overcome a physical addiction, and if someone is blaming an addiction to food for their being overweight then they need to take a step back and re-evaluate what they are saying.
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TheVirgoddess wrote: »I'm not just talking about overweight people - I got fat because I ate too much. But I do think in some cases there is a real addiction to food or eating (two different responses maybe). Perhaps not as prevalent as some would like to think, and certainly not something to be self diagnosed.
And I do understand the frustration of someone comparing something as potentially devastating as alcoholism or drug addiction to food - or blaming their obesity on addiction without any sort of foundation to base it off of.
Yes, I agree with this. When it gets used to apply to overeating generally or everyone who gets fat or casual as in "I'm addicted to pizza" or "I'm addicted to sugar" (sigh), I think it's misused. But with such things as compulsive overeating, where eating becomes basically the center of your life and you give up everything else, or binge eating disorder, where you may eat not only way beyond hunger, but beyond any possible pleasure from food, because it seems to fill some kind of void? It does bear significant relation to addiction (specifically alcoholism, as that's what I'm most familiar with) to me.
I never suffered from either compulsive overeating or binge eating disorder, and my own issues with food (including emotional eating) were not "addictive" IMO or anywhere near the horribleness of alcoholism IME, but that doesn't mean that food can't reach that level for some.
I don't see it as an excuse, just as being an alcoholic isn't an excuse for drunkenness or bad behavior.
What I thought the OP was getting at--which I think is valid--is that some of the strategies that help people suffering from addictions (like the 12 steps or seeing HALT (hunger, anger, loneliness, being tired) as risk factors for falling into the behavior you want to avoid, etc., could be helpful for people with food issues too. I think that's the case even for some of the food issues I don't think are really comparable to addiction, in fact (like emotional eating), as they are similarly maladaptive.
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not exactly.
you can give up drinking.
you cant give up eating.
so its not like you can eliminate your triggers.
it's tougher than alcoholism.
with food addiction you have to train yourself to be less sensitive to those triggers. to be able to ignore them and still eat small amounts.
Imagine if alcoholics had to learn how to only drink half a drink a day? good lord.0 -
they do it if you overeat and fall asleep in your cheetoh dust i guarantee that.0
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TheVirgoddess wrote: »
I thought that eating things, especially sweet/salty things did create a chemical reaction in the brain? Dopamine trigger I think? I'll try to find something to cite here - oh here - this was interesting: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-food-addiction. I'll look some more.
Here is a good article reviewing the research history of dopamine and it's role in food rewards: http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/361/1471/1149.full
Long story short is that the research indicates that dopamine plays an important role in food reward-seeking behavior, however there are likely other biochemical factors in play also.0 -
not exactly.
you can give up drinking.
you cant give up eating.
so its not like you can eliminate your triggers.
it's tougher than alcoholism.
with food addiction you have to train yourself to be less sensitive to those triggers. to be able to ignore them and still eat small amounts.
Imagine if alcoholics had to learn how to only drink half a drink a day? good lord.
They key is that you can learn how to do that...
An alcoholic can't period
Tougher? get a grip0 -
TheVirgoddess wrote: »
I thought that eating things, especially sweet/salty things did create a chemical reaction in the brain? Dopamine trigger I think? I'll try to find something to cite here - oh here - this was interesting: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-food-addiction. I'll look some more.
Here is a good article reviewing the research history of dopamine and it's role in food rewards: http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/361/1471/1149.full
Long story short is that the research indicates that dopamine plays an important role in food reward-seeking behavior, however there are likely other biochemical factors in play also.
From the Study...cause a human's brain is just like animals/miceWhile dopamine plays a central role in the feeding and food-seeking of normal animals, some food rewarded learning can be seen in genetically engineered dopamine-deficient mice.
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I dont care what anyone says. overeating, stuffing your face, binge eating, emotional eating or whatever you call it, is an ADDICTION!!! when you love food and you are so determined to lose weight and get those abs you have always dreamt of....you need WILLPOWER! sometimes you can fight the urge to raid the biscuit tin or whatever is your vice but sadly other times, you have a voice in your head coming with all sorts of innocent reasons why you should give in!
I have certain times I need to eat during the day and seriously if for whatever reason I can't boy do I get angry and in such a crabby mood!!!! lol
The only difference between alcohol/drugs/smoking and food is, you can cut out drugs/alcohol and smoking, you dont need it!! I used to love alcohol but now I gave it the heave ho years ago! but you NEED FOOD to live. so much harder I think! cant cut food out of your life!!!
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Some of you really need to get some new material, I feel like ~50% of the posts so far could have been copy-pasted from previous addiction threads.0 -
not exactly.
you can give up drinking.
you cant give up eating.
so its not like you can eliminate your triggers.
it's tougher than alcoholism.
Not in my experience.
And just because I find it interesting and am curious whether you have a different experience, I've never heard anyone who claims that food in general is a trigger. People who compulsively overeat don't seem to be triggered by food items, exactly, whereas binge eaters who are seem to have particular kinds of triggers which they can be trained out of.
I used to find some kinds of food "triggering" in that I would tend to overeat them in particular situations. To me, that's a different kind of reaction than the one I get to alcohol, which is not solely a learned behavior in the same way, but is definitely physical, since the first time I tried it. (It also has psychological components on top of that, but there's definitely something more.)
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digginDeep wrote: »I dunno- if you over eat, no one does this to you when you pass out.
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or cigarettes????? my dad is a heavy smoker and I aint never seen him in that state. well not in public anyway!!!
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TheVirgoddess wrote: »
I thought that eating things, especially sweet/salty things did create a chemical reaction in the brain? Dopamine trigger I think? I'll try to find something to cite here - oh here - this was interesting: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-food-addiction. I'll look some more.
Here is a good article reviewing the research history of dopamine and it's role in food rewards: http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/361/1471/1149.full
Long story short is that the research indicates that dopamine plays an important role in food reward-seeking behavior, however there are likely other biochemical factors in play also.
From the Study...cause a human's brain is just like animals/miceWhile dopamine plays a central role in the feeding and food-seeking of normal animals, some food rewarded learning can be seen in genetically engineered dopamine-deficient mice.
Yes. If you read further down, the author states in their conclusion that that dopamine plays an important role, but is clearly not the whole story. And you would be surprised how much similarity there is between the brain/ brain chemistry of a human and the rodent models that are used to test these things (coming from someone who actually works in this field for a living).
The interesting this to me in this review is that it clearly indicates an important role for dopamine in seeking food as a reward, however it did not address the issue of whether or not the reward-seeking will continue to the point that an animal constantly overeats and becomes obese (as in, there is no indication of whether or not the dopamine response alone is strong enough to override an animal's natural "fullness signals"). And, if conditioning an animal to constantly seek a food reward by constant dopamine stimulation would cause an animal to become obese, would returning that animal to normal calorie diet and normal dopamine stimulation for a period of time "reset" the food reward-seeking behavior? I don't have time to really read up right now, but I would be very curious if anyone sees any studies addressing those questions. To me, the question of whether or not "addiction" to things like food, gambling, sex, etc (in other words, things that we think of as more psychological than physical addiction) is really rooted in biochemistry is still a very open question.0 -
emmabanks87 wrote: »I dont care what anyone says. overeating, stuffing your face, binge eating, emotional eating or whatever you call it, is an ADDICTION!!! when you love food and you are so determined to lose weight and get those abs you have always dreamt of....you need WILLPOWER! sometimes you can fight the urge to raid the biscuit tin or whatever is your vice but sadly other times, you have a voice in your head coming with all sorts of innocent reasons why you should give in!
I have certain times I need to eat during the day and seriously if for whatever reason I can't boy do I get angry and in such a crabby mood!!!! lol
The only difference between alcohol/drugs/smoking and food is, you can cut out drugs/alcohol and smoking, you dont need it!! I used to love alcohol but now I gave it the heave ho years ago! but you NEED FOOD to live. so much harder I think! cant cut food out of your life!!!
Yup well you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
I love food...but I wanted it bad enough...
As I said before when you get physically ill, have convuslions etc because you can't have your cookie than I will believe it's an addiction.
As for the mood swings sounds like a petulant teenager who is told no.0 -
With food - you MUST learn how to do it. You can't give it up completely like alcohol and drugs. It's really not that hard to understand, unless you want to think the worst of those who struggle with disordered eating of any type.not exactly.
you can give up drinking.
you cant give up eating.
so its not like you can eliminate your triggers.
it's tougher than alcoholism.
with food addiction you have to train yourself to be less sensitive to those triggers. to be able to ignore them and still eat small amounts.
Imagine if alcoholics had to learn how to only drink half a drink a day? good lord.
They key is that you can learn how to do that...
An alcoholic can't period
Tougher? get a grip0 -
emmabanks87 wrote: »I dont care what anyone says. overeating, stuffing your face, binge eating, emotional eating or whatever you call it, is an ADDICTION!!! when you love food and you are so determined to lose weight and get those abs you have always dreamt of....you need WILLPOWER! sometimes you can fight the urge to raid the biscuit tin or whatever is your vice but sadly other times, you have a voice in your head coming with all sorts of innocent reasons why you should give in!
I have certain times I need to eat during the day and seriously if for whatever reason I can't boy do I get angry and in such a crabby mood!!!! lol
The only difference between alcohol/drugs/smoking and food is, you can cut out drugs/alcohol and smoking, you dont need it!! I used to love alcohol but now I gave it the heave ho years ago! but you NEED FOOD to live. so much harder I think! cant cut food out of your life!!!
Yup well you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
I love food...but I wanted it bad enough...
As I said before when you get physically ill, have convuslions etc because you can't have your cookie than I will believe it's an addiction.
As for the mood swings sounds like a petulant teenager who is told no.
err im 27 thanks!! I meant my body is set into a certain routine when I like to eat (healthy meals, not crap) but if for whatever reason, boyfriend is late is a classic!! I get p***ed off because my blood sugar is low and my body is CRAVING food!!!
wont bother you with my situation but put it this way, I need to change my body in order to get the life ive always dreamt of, if not I will lose everything....even with that in my head, i still mess up my diet with overeating! ive had a lot of slip ups.
Besides an addiction is not a text book thing.....what about sex addicts????? I wonder if they get convuslions if they dont get their 'fix'??? and what about hoarders?? people who are 'addicted' to keeping there stuff??
all kinds of addictions with different kinds of reactions that you get when you cut it out0 -
Are we really gonna argue about which one is WORSE? It's apples to oranges. And those advocating for the substance abuse side, please don't diminish the mental health aspect of an eating disorder or disordered view of food.
You all sound incredibly silly. "when you get physically ill because you couldn't have that whole pizza, let me know" ? Really?? Congrats, you win the martyr award.
Just because someone else's battle is different from yours doesn't make it any less important or any less crippling, for THEM.
^Agree 100%. Just because it's something you don't understand doesn't make it an "excuse."0 -
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not exactly.
you can give up drinking.
you cant give up eating.
so its not like you can eliminate your triggers.
it's tougher than alcoholism.
with food addiction you have to train yourself to be less sensitive to those triggers. to be able to ignore them and still eat small amounts.
Imagine if alcoholics had to learn how to only drink half a drink a day? good lord.
They key is that you can learn how to do that...
An alcoholic can't period
Tougher? get a grip
Im neither. I'm practicing empathy by conversing with people who deal with crap that I dont have to deal with so I can understand better.
go grip yourself.
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What exactly would be considered crap?emmabanks87 wrote: »emmabanks87 wrote: »I dont care what anyone says. overeating, stuffing your face, binge eating, emotional eating or whatever you call it, is an ADDICTION!!! when you love food and you are so determined to lose weight and get those abs you have always dreamt of....you need WILLPOWER! sometimes you can fight the urge to raid the biscuit tin or whatever is your vice but sadly other times, you have a voice in your head coming with all sorts of innocent reasons why you should give in!
I have certain times I need to eat during the day and seriously if for whatever reason I can't boy do I get angry and in such a crabby mood!!!! lol
The only difference between alcohol/drugs/smoking and food is, you can cut out drugs/alcohol and smoking, you dont need it!! I used to love alcohol but now I gave it the heave ho years ago! but you NEED FOOD to live. so much harder I think! cant cut food out of your life!!!
Yup well you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
I love food...but I wanted it bad enough...
As I said before when you get physically ill, have convuslions etc because you can't have your cookie than I will believe it's an addiction.
As for the mood swings sounds like a petulant teenager who is told no.
err im 27 thanks!! I meant my body is set into a certain routine when I like to eat (healthy meals, not crap) but if for whatever reason, boyfriend is late is a classic!! I get p***ed off because my blood sugar is low and my body is CRAVING food!!!
wont bother you with my situation but put it this way, I need to change my body in order to get the life ive always dreamt of, if not I will lose everything....even with that in my head, i still mess up my diet with overeating! ive had a lot of slip ups.
Besides an addiction is not a text book thing.....what about sex addicts????? I wonder if they get convuslions if they dont get their 'fix'??? and what about hoarders?? people who are 'addicted' to keeping there stuff??
all kinds of addictions with different kinds of reactions that you get when you cut it out
well you know, cookies, cakes, ice cream etc. only said that as i was being accused of acting like a teenager who got crabby when her mummy and daddy told her she cant have a cookie! which isnt the case!
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not exactly.
you can give up drinking.
you cant give up eating.
so its not like you can eliminate your triggers.
it's tougher than alcoholism.
with food addiction you have to train yourself to be less sensitive to those triggers. to be able to ignore them and still eat small amounts.
Imagine if alcoholics had to learn how to only drink half a drink a day? good lord.
They key is that you can learn how to do that...
An alcoholic can't period
Tougher? get a grip
Im neither. I'm practicing empathy by conversing with people who deal with crap that I dont have to deal with so I can understand better.
go grip yourself.
my grip if fine thanks...I only used mixed grip on a really high DL probably over 160...
so this empathy you are practicing is that cognitive or affective?
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not exactly.
you can give up drinking.
you cant give up eating.
so its not like you can eliminate your triggers.
it's tougher than alcoholism.
with food addiction you have to train yourself to be less sensitive to those triggers. to be able to ignore them and still eat small amounts.
Imagine if alcoholics had to learn how to only drink half a drink a day? good lord.
completely agree!!!! its easier to cut something out completely then to learn to have less of it BUT before anyone has a go I know its not easy for alcoholics....ive only just learned that one of my closest members of my family have had very bad news due to problems with alcohol0 -
not exactly.
you can give up drinking.
you cant give up eating.
so its not like you can eliminate your triggers.
it's tougher than alcoholism.
with food addiction you have to train yourself to be less sensitive to those triggers. to be able to ignore them and still eat small amounts.
Imagine if alcoholics had to learn how to only drink half a drink a day? good lord.
They key is that you can learn how to do that...
An alcoholic can't period
Tougher? get a grip
Im neither. I'm practicing empathy by conversing with people who deal with crap that I dont have to deal with so I can understand better.
go grip yourself.
my grip if fine thanks...I only used mixed grip on a really high DL probably over 160...
so this empathy you are practicing is that cognitive or affective?
look I said that it seemed tougher to me to quit drinking than to quit eating because you cant quit eating.
jesus fraking christ.
why do you want to argue. You jumped in and said something sharp to me, I responded with an explanation and you are still pulling my hair and trying to get me to fight on the playground with you.
and obviously its cognitive, since Im saying it might be harder to quit something that you cant completely quit.
and i hope someday youll see 160 DL as a warm up weight.
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