Food addiction, Over eating is very similar to Alcoholism and other addictions..
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Food Addiction is absolutely real and like every other addiction, is a disease of the mind and body. Alcoholics don't simply "enjoy alcohol" and can't stop by willing their desire away. When they have one drink, their brain is sent a signal that says, "GIVE ME MORE!" There is also the mental component where alcoholics have learned to numb their emotions by adding alcohol, so it is the natural "go to" whenever any emotional experience, happy or sad comes up. The same is true for food addicts. There are numerous studies about the way sugar affects the brain and studies show that it is addictive and habit forming as cocaine. The only difference is that awareness of cocaine addiction is widely spread and value laden, while sugar addiction is only now coming to the forefront of social awareness.
Not everyone who is overweight is a food addict. Some people can learn to eat well and stay healthy or lose their weight without it ever coming back on. They are able to have sugar, flour, treats etc with no message to their brain saying "EAT MORE," while those with food addiction, skinny or large, can't stop at just one and obsess about the food until they either consume it or painstakingly manage to direct their attention elsewhere.
Fortunately there is a 12 step program for Food Addicts (foodaddicts.org), which can help lead those who are food addicts to recovery and learn to manage and overcome this disease.
Oh please stop calling this a disease. Food is not a drug. Unwanted obesity is caused by lack of willpower, not a drug-like addiction. Supposedly 'lack of willpower' is a disease then? So when a married man has an affair with the woman across the street although he knows it might be bad for him, then is that a disease? For goodness sake.
Obsession with food is not addiction. There are many obese/overweight people who blame themselves completely for becoming the way they are. They look at treating it, and on the whole, the ones who are most successful are those who are most honest.
As brutal as it might sound, the sooner that excuses are eliminated from the world of not being able to lose weight, the better.-2 -
NOFood Addiction is absolutely real and like every other addiction, is a disease of the mind and body. Alcoholics don't simply "enjoy alcohol" and can't stop by willing their desire away. When they have one drink, their brain is sent a signal that says, "GIVE ME MORE!" There is also the mental component where alcoholics have learned to numb their emotions by adding alcohol, so it is the natural "go to" whenever any emotional experience, happy or sad comes up. The same is true for food addicts. There are numerous studies about the way sugar affects the brain and studies show that it is addictive and habit forming as cocaine. The only difference is that awareness of cocaine addiction is widely spread and value laden, while sugar addiction is only now coming to the forefront of social awareness.
Not everyone who is overweight is a food addict. Some people can learn to eat well and stay healthy or lose their weight without it ever coming back on. They are able to have sugar, flour, treats etc with no message to their brain saying "EAT MORE," while those with food addiction, skinny or large, can't stop at just one and obsess about the food until they either consume it or painstakingly manage to direct their attention elsewhere.
Fortunately there is a 12 step program for Food Addicts (foodaddicts.org), which can help lead those who are food addicts to recovery and learn to manage and overcome this disease.
How many friends have you had die from not being able to stop from eating a whopper?
Ask me how many friends I have had die because they couldn't stop drinking?
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Interesting topic. For the first time, last weekend, I was thinking about this and comparing it to what a person addicted to alcohol feels. I constantly think about food. What I am going to eat next. Justify to myself that I will be able to start over again tomorrow if I overindulge. How is this NOT an addiction? I can have alcohol in the house and have no problem not drinking any, for me that is easy. Not so with food. Call it what you will, to me it IS an addiction.
.......................and, everyone has to eat to survive. Not so with alcohol.0 -
To be fair, the better analogy would be friends that died from overeating... And I suspect most of us know someone who died from a condition related to obesity.Liftng4Lis wrote: »
NOFood Addiction is absolutely real and like every other addiction, is a disease of the mind and body. Alcoholics don't simply "enjoy alcohol" and can't stop by willing their desire away. When they have one drink, their brain is sent a signal that says, "GIVE ME MORE!" There is also the mental component where alcoholics have learned to numb their emotions by adding alcohol, so it is the natural "go to" whenever any emotional experience, happy or sad comes up. The same is true for food addicts. There are numerous studies about the way sugar affects the brain and studies show that it is addictive and habit forming as cocaine. The only difference is that awareness of cocaine addiction is widely spread and value laden, while sugar addiction is only now coming to the forefront of social awareness.
Not everyone who is overweight is a food addict. Some people can learn to eat well and stay healthy or lose their weight without it ever coming back on. They are able to have sugar, flour, treats etc with no message to their brain saying "EAT MORE," while those with food addiction, skinny or large, can't stop at just one and obsess about the food until they either consume it or painstakingly manage to direct their attention elsewhere.
Fortunately there is a 12 step program for Food Addicts (foodaddicts.org), which can help lead those who are food addicts to recovery and learn to manage and overcome this disease.
How many friends have you had die from not being able to stop from eating a whopper?
Ask me how many friends I have had die because they couldn't stop drinking?
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snowflake930 wrote: »Interesting topic. For the first time, last weekend, I was thinking about this and comparing it to what a person addicted to alcohol feels. I constantly think about food. What I am going to eat next. Justify to myself that I will be able to start over again tomorrow if I overindulge. How is this NOT an addiction? I can have alcohol in the house and have no problem not drinking any, for me that is easy. Not so with food. Call it what you will, to me it IS an addiction.
.......................and, everyone has to eat to survive. Not so with alcohol.
So if eating at home is what it comes down to, you can control the amount of food in your house before it gets there, right?.....0 -
A close friend is a recovering alcoholic and drug abuser, she's been clean for more than a year now and I'm very proud. But even she has admitted that she's become a food addict, she gets emotional triggers and just eats and eats.
It seems like some people are molded to have more addictive personalities. In her case, she says that while she doesn't turn to alcohol anymore she turns to food to numb her pain. It just depends on what you can find as your "release"0 -
Food addiction - or rather sugar addiction is actually just as bad as cocaine addiction. Studies have found that when you have sugar the same area of the brain lights up as the area of a cocaine addict. Don 't think of sugar as just the granulated white stuff. Our bodies take simple carbs (bread, things with white flour, potatoes, white rice, pasta, etc) and immediately break them down into simple sugar. So - even if you aren't eating chocolate by the pound or candy corn, or soda pop....if you are eating a diet high in those simple carbs (burgers and fries, pizza, pasta, etc) and just can't get enough of those foods...chances are you have a sugar issue. And try going off sugar and simple carbs. You will go through withdrawl like any addict. Migraine type headaches that last for days and days. Nausea. Feeling like you've been run over by a semi for 2 weeks. Irritability would be a huge understatement.
Not so? Ask me how I know. Ask countless others who will diet and loose 30, 40, 50+ pounds and do well for months. The first time they "treat" themselves for a special occasion...a piece of cake at their sister's wedding. Or a special dinner out for an anniversary. And BOOM they gain it all back. Why? Because that one treat or meal brings on all those cravings. It is like an alcoholic that has been dry for a long time and then has a drink on a special occasion and suddenly is living out of the bottom of a bottle. If you have a sugar addiction you just can not have it. Ever. And by sugar - I also mean those simple carbs.
I am a recovering sugar addict. 16+ months off sugar (and those simple white carbs). 127 pounds lost, my life and health regained. However, a few months ago I started noticing that my sugar cravings were back with a vengence. I couldn't figure out why. I started going through my supplements. Low and behold - my alfalfa supplements had quite a but of sugar in them. Hello sugar pills. I have taken many supplements from this same company and none of them had added sugar - so I stupidly didn't check the alfalfa when I started it. Well, they were little more than alfalfa and sugar. Threw them in the trash. You know what? In less than 48 hours those mad sugar cravings were gone and haven't resurfaced.
And what is hard about sugar addiction is that sugar is in EVERYTHING!!!! High fructose corn syrup (or just corn syrup), dextrose, maltodextrin, cane syrup, beet sugar, fructose, glucose, maltose, sorgum syrup, molasses, etc. etc. There are over 50 names of "sugar". So it is very easy to accidentally consume it. This is similar to the fact that non-alcoholic beer has just a wee bit of alcohol in it, and for that reason it too is off limits to alcoholics. Why do think obesity is such an issue here in America? I mean take a look at those around you. Most of them are overweight. Look at the number of chemicals we consume (like high fructose corn syrup) that are banned all over the world. The food company's job is not to keep us healthy and well fed. It is to SELL THEIR PRODUCTS! They know they are addictive - but that is the only way they keep you coming back for more.
Ok, getting off my soap box now....0 -
Food addiction - or rather sugar addiction is actually just as bad as cocaine addiction. Studies have found that when you have sugar the same area of the brain lights up as the area of a cocaine addict. Don 't think of sugar as just the granulated white stuff. Our bodies take simple carbs (bread, things with white flour, potatoes, white rice, pasta, etc) and immediately break them down into simple sugar. So - even if you aren't eating chocolate by the pound or candy corn, or soda pop....if you are eating a diet high in those simple carbs (burgers and fries, pizza, pasta, etc) and just can't get enough of those foods...chances are you have a sugar issue. And try going off sugar and simple carbs. You will go through withdrawl like any addict. Migraine type headaches that last for days and days. Nausea. Feeling like you've been run over by a semi for 2 weeks. Irritability would be a huge understatement.
Not so? Ask me how I know. Ask countless others who will diet and loose 30, 40, 50+ pounds and do well for months. The first time they "treat" themselves for a special occasion...a piece of cake at their sister's wedding. Or a special dinner out for an anniversary. And BOOM they gain it all back. Why? Because that one treat or meal brings on all those cravings. It is like an alcoholic that has been dry for a long time and then has a drink on a special occasion and suddenly is living out of the bottom of a bottle. If you have a sugar addiction you just can not have it. Ever. And by sugar - I also mean those simple carbs.
I am a recovering sugar addict. 16+ months off sugar (and those simple white carbs). 127 pounds lost, my life and health regained. However, a few months ago I started noticing that my sugar cravings were back with a vengence. I couldn't figure out why. I started going through my supplements. Low and behold - my alfalfa supplements had quite a but of sugar in them. Hello sugar pills. I have taken many supplements from this same company and none of them had added sugar - so I stupidly didn't check the alfalfa when I started it. Well, they were little more than alfalfa and sugar. Threw them in the trash. You know what? In less than 48 hours those mad sugar cravings were gone and haven't resurfaced.
And what is hard about sugar addiction is that sugar is in EVERYTHING!!!! High fructose corn syrup (or just corn syrup), dextrose, maltodextrin, cane syrup, beet sugar, fructose, glucose, maltose, sorgum syrup, molasses, etc. etc. There are over 50 names of "sugar". So it is very easy to accidentally consume it. This is similar to the fact that non-alcoholic beer has just a wee bit of alcohol in it, and for that reason it too is off limits to alcoholics. Why do think obesity is such an issue here in America? I mean take a look at those around you. Most of them are overweight. Look at the number of chemicals we consume (like high fructose corn syrup) that are banned all over the world. The food company's job is not to keep us healthy and well fed. It is to SELL THEIR PRODUCTS! They know they are addictive - but that is the only way they keep you coming back for more.
Ok, getting off my soap box now....
This is just not true. Most people who go down the route of drugs crave them. Not so of sugar.-1 -
I'm a believer that for some people, food can be addictive. There are some pretty convincing human studies using brain imaging, that some people have different neural responses to palatable food.
This is an interesting review article. The full text is available in Pubmedcentral for free download.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3651846/
“Liking” and “Wanting” Linked to Reward Deficiency Syndrome (RDS): Hypothesizing Differential Responsivity in Brain Reward Circuitry
The term, Reward Deficiency Syndrome (RDS) was first coined by Blum et al. [2–3] and refers to an insufficiency of usual feelings of satisfaction. RDS results from a dysfunction in the “brain reward cascade,” a complex interaction among neurotransmitters (primarily dopaminergic and opiodergic). Individuals who have a family history of alcoholism or other addictions may be born with a deficiency in the ability to produce or use these neurotransmitters. Exposure to prolonged periods of stress and alcohol or other substances can also lead to a corruption of the brain reward cascade function. In any case, when the neurotransmitters are low or are blocked from reaching the intended brain receptors, individuals often feel discomfort or pain. Behaviors resulting from a failure of the system that normally confers satisfaction include drug and alcohol abuse, overeating, heavy cigarette smoking, gambling, and hyperactivity. Blum and colleagues [2,3] have linked these disorders to a genetic defect, especially to dysfunction of dopamine receptors, the genes for which show many mutant forms.
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To be fair, the better analogy would be friends that died from overeating... And I suspect most of us know someone who died from a condition related to obesity.Liftng4Lis wrote: »
NOFood Addiction is absolutely real and like every other addiction, is a disease of the mind and body. Alcoholics don't simply "enjoy alcohol" and can't stop by willing their desire away. When they have one drink, their brain is sent a signal that says, "GIVE ME MORE!" There is also the mental component where alcoholics have learned to numb their emotions by adding alcohol, so it is the natural "go to" whenever any emotional experience, happy or sad comes up. The same is true for food addicts. There are numerous studies about the way sugar affects the brain and studies show that it is addictive and habit forming as cocaine. The only difference is that awareness of cocaine addiction is widely spread and value laden, while sugar addiction is only now coming to the forefront of social awareness.
Not everyone who is overweight is a food addict. Some people can learn to eat well and stay healthy or lose their weight without it ever coming back on. They are able to have sugar, flour, treats etc with no message to their brain saying "EAT MORE," while those with food addiction, skinny or large, can't stop at just one and obsess about the food until they either consume it or painstakingly manage to direct their attention elsewhere.
Fortunately there is a 12 step program for Food Addicts (foodaddicts.org), which can help lead those who are food addicts to recovery and learn to manage and overcome this disease.
How many friends have you had die from not being able to stop from eating a whopper?
Ask me how many friends I have had die because they couldn't stop drinking?
I think there's a difference between dying from something related to obesity, but which is a longer-term result or less predictable result and someone who directly died from being unable to stop overeating. Humans engage in all kinds of risky behavior because they convince themselves the risks don't really apply to them, but that's not addiction IMO.
Something like someone 600 lbs eating themselves to death does seem more analogous to me, and it does happen. But that doesn't mean that someone who regularly eats more cookies than she'd like is a "sugar addict," and that's the kind of usage that I think is absurd.
But as I said above, I do think true compulsive overeating or binge eating disorder is comparable in important respects.
Enjoying food or plain old overeating, no. I enjoy food, I have the desire to overindulge at various times, I certainly was able to get fat as a result, but to compare that kind of thing to addiction doesn't ring true at all to my experience.
And since a number of people have raised it, the cocaine=sugar thing isn't even related to an inability to stop eating sugar or moderate. It's based on the fact that eating sugar is extremely pleasurable to rats and, I'm sure, to humans.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
To be fair, the better analogy would be friends that died from overeating... And I suspect most of us know someone who died from a condition related to obesity.Liftng4Lis wrote: »
NOFood Addiction is absolutely real and like every other addiction, is a disease of the mind and body. Alcoholics don't simply "enjoy alcohol" and can't stop by willing their desire away. When they have one drink, their brain is sent a signal that says, "GIVE ME MORE!" There is also the mental component where alcoholics have learned to numb their emotions by adding alcohol, so it is the natural "go to" whenever any emotional experience, happy or sad comes up. The same is true for food addicts. There are numerous studies about the way sugar affects the brain and studies show that it is addictive and habit forming as cocaine. The only difference is that awareness of cocaine addiction is widely spread and value laden, while sugar addiction is only now coming to the forefront of social awareness.
Not everyone who is overweight is a food addict. Some people can learn to eat well and stay healthy or lose their weight without it ever coming back on. They are able to have sugar, flour, treats etc with no message to their brain saying "EAT MORE," while those with food addiction, skinny or large, can't stop at just one and obsess about the food until they either consume it or painstakingly manage to direct their attention elsewhere.
Fortunately there is a 12 step program for Food Addicts (foodaddicts.org), which can help lead those who are food addicts to recovery and learn to manage and overcome this disease.
How many friends have you had die from not being able to stop from eating a whopper?
Ask me how many friends I have had die because they couldn't stop drinking?
I think there's a difference between dying from something related to obesity, but which is a longer-term result or less predictable result and someone who directly died from being unable to stop overeating. Humans engage in all kinds of risky behavior because they convince themselves the risks don't really apply to them, but that's not addiction IMO.
Something like someone 600 lbs eating themselves to death does seem more analogous to me, and it does happen. But that doesn't mean that someone who regularly eats more cookies than she'd like is a "sugar addict," and that's the kind of usage that I think is absurd.
But as I said above, I do think true compulsive overeating or binge eating disorder is comparable in important respects.
Enjoying food or plain old overeating, no. I enjoy food, I have the desire to overindulge at various times, I certainly was able to get fat as a result, but to compare that kind of thing to addiction doesn't ring true at all to my experience.
And since a number of people have raised it, the cocaine=sugar thing isn't even related to an inability to stop eating sugar or moderate. It's based on the fact that eating sugar is extremely pleasurable to rats and, I'm sure, to humans.
You're missing the point I was trying to make. It's not logical to compare someone who died because they couldn't stop drinking with someone who did stop eating. One stopped, one did not. If you're going to compare the problem eater with the problem drinker, I know people that have died from both. If you're going to compare the person who stopped drinking with the person who stopped their uncontrolled eating, then I do not know anyone who died from either.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
To be fair, the better analogy would be friends that died from overeating... And I suspect most of us know someone who died from a condition related to obesity.Liftng4Lis wrote: »
NOFood Addiction is absolutely real and like every other addiction, is a disease of the mind and body. Alcoholics don't simply "enjoy alcohol" and can't stop by willing their desire away. When they have one drink, their brain is sent a signal that says, "GIVE ME MORE!" There is also the mental component where alcoholics have learned to numb their emotions by adding alcohol, so it is the natural "go to" whenever any emotional experience, happy or sad comes up. The same is true for food addicts. There are numerous studies about the way sugar affects the brain and studies show that it is addictive and habit forming as cocaine. The only difference is that awareness of cocaine addiction is widely spread and value laden, while sugar addiction is only now coming to the forefront of social awareness.
Not everyone who is overweight is a food addict. Some people can learn to eat well and stay healthy or lose their weight without it ever coming back on. They are able to have sugar, flour, treats etc with no message to their brain saying "EAT MORE," while those with food addiction, skinny or large, can't stop at just one and obsess about the food until they either consume it or painstakingly manage to direct their attention elsewhere.
Fortunately there is a 12 step program for Food Addicts (foodaddicts.org), which can help lead those who are food addicts to recovery and learn to manage and overcome this disease.
How many friends have you had die from not being able to stop from eating a whopper?
Ask me how many friends I have had die because they couldn't stop drinking?
I think there's a difference between dying from something related to obesity, but which is a longer-term result or less predictable result and someone who directly died from being unable to stop overeating. Humans engage in all kinds of risky behavior because they convince themselves the risks don't really apply to them, but that's not addiction IMO.
Something like someone 600 lbs eating themselves to death does seem more analogous to me, and it does happen. But that doesn't mean that someone who regularly eats more cookies than she'd like is a "sugar addict," and that's the kind of usage that I think is absurd.
But as I said above, I do think true compulsive overeating or binge eating disorder is comparable in important respects.
Enjoying food or plain old overeating, no. I enjoy food, I have the desire to overindulge at various times, I certainly was able to get fat as a result, but to compare that kind of thing to addiction doesn't ring true at all to my experience.
And since a number of people have raised it, the cocaine=sugar thing isn't even related to an inability to stop eating sugar or moderate. It's based on the fact that eating sugar is extremely pleasurable to rats and, I'm sure, to humans.
You're missing the point I was trying to make. It's not logical to compare someone who died because they couldn't stop drinking with someone who did stop eating. One stopped, one did not. If you're going to compare the problem eater with the problem drinker, I know people that have died from both. If you're going to compare the person who stopped drinking with the person who stopped their uncontrolled eating, then I do not know anyone who died from either.
One of my friends in detox, only drank a 12 pack a day (doesn't seem like much). Day 4 of abstaining, dropped dead from withdrawals.
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Food addiction - or rather sugar addiction is actually just as bad as cocaine addiction. Studies have found that when you have sugar the same area of the brain lights up as the area of a cocaine addict.
Same with having sex and lots of other things. Does that make having sex "just as bad as cocaine addiction"? What it means is that ordinary people (well, rats, actually) find pleasure in eating sugar, and there are obvious evolutionary reasons why that is so. It doesn't mean that because you find pleasure in it you will chuck the rest of your life and narrowly devote yourself to satisfying those urges, thereby ruining your life the way addicts do. Certainly I both enjoy sugar and don't do that. That's why people taking "there is evidence that sugar is pleasurable" and jumping from that to "it's an addiction" is taken so negatively by many. The idea that the essence of addiction is that you find the addictive substance pleasurable is insane. Heck, I did find drinking pleasurable for a long time. That's not why I consider myself an alcoholic.And try going off sugar and simple carbs. You will go through withdrawl like any addict.
You can go through withdrawal without something being comparable to cocaine--caffeine is an obvious example (and is addictive). But in fact I did this with sugar and carbs and suffered no withdrawal at all. Not even the low carb flu, which isn't withdrawal, but simply because you aren't giving your body its normal preferred fuel. Maybe that makes me weird, I dunno.And what is hard about sugar addiction is that sugar is in EVERYTHING!!!! High fructose corn syrup (or just corn syrup), dextrose, maltodextrin, cane syrup, beet sugar, fructose, glucose, maltose, sorgum syrup, molasses, etc. etc.
I'm sorry, but it's not. You may eat lots of foods that contain it, which is your choice and a fine one for many people, but it's quite easy not to. The only foods I eat that contain "added sugar" are ones I know quite well do and don't mind. It's not in most of the foods I eat. Since I track, I know this. (Also, I think the idea that having a bit of sugar in some homemade tomato sauce--I don't add it, but it's common to--or smoked salmon or, of course, fruits and veggies or dairy is going to cause you to go nuts and eat a bunch of cookies is entirely unsupported by any evidence. That's certainly not what the rat studies show.)
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Liftng4Lis wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
To be fair, the better analogy would be friends that died from overeating... And I suspect most of us know someone who died from a condition related to obesity.Liftng4Lis wrote: »
NOFood Addiction is absolutely real and like every other addiction, is a disease of the mind and body. Alcoholics don't simply "enjoy alcohol" and can't stop by willing their desire away. When they have one drink, their brain is sent a signal that says, "GIVE ME MORE!" There is also the mental component where alcoholics have learned to numb their emotions by adding alcohol, so it is the natural "go to" whenever any emotional experience, happy or sad comes up. The same is true for food addicts. There are numerous studies about the way sugar affects the brain and studies show that it is addictive and habit forming as cocaine. The only difference is that awareness of cocaine addiction is widely spread and value laden, while sugar addiction is only now coming to the forefront of social awareness.
Not everyone who is overweight is a food addict. Some people can learn to eat well and stay healthy or lose their weight without it ever coming back on. They are able to have sugar, flour, treats etc with no message to their brain saying "EAT MORE," while those with food addiction, skinny or large, can't stop at just one and obsess about the food until they either consume it or painstakingly manage to direct their attention elsewhere.
Fortunately there is a 12 step program for Food Addicts (foodaddicts.org), which can help lead those who are food addicts to recovery and learn to manage and overcome this disease.
How many friends have you had die from not being able to stop from eating a whopper?
Ask me how many friends I have had die because they couldn't stop drinking?
I think there's a difference between dying from something related to obesity, but which is a longer-term result or less predictable result and someone who directly died from being unable to stop overeating. Humans engage in all kinds of risky behavior because they convince themselves the risks don't really apply to them, but that's not addiction IMO.
Something like someone 600 lbs eating themselves to death does seem more analogous to me, and it does happen. But that doesn't mean that someone who regularly eats more cookies than she'd like is a "sugar addict," and that's the kind of usage that I think is absurd.
But as I said above, I do think true compulsive overeating or binge eating disorder is comparable in important respects.
Enjoying food or plain old overeating, no. I enjoy food, I have the desire to overindulge at various times, I certainly was able to get fat as a result, but to compare that kind of thing to addiction doesn't ring true at all to my experience.
And since a number of people have raised it, the cocaine=sugar thing isn't even related to an inability to stop eating sugar or moderate. It's based on the fact that eating sugar is extremely pleasurable to rats and, I'm sure, to humans.
You're missing the point I was trying to make. It's not logical to compare someone who died because they couldn't stop drinking with someone who did stop eating. One stopped, one did not. If you're going to compare the problem eater with the problem drinker, I know people that have died from both. If you're going to compare the person who stopped drinking with the person who stopped their uncontrolled eating, then I do not know anyone who died from either.
One of my friends in detox, only drank a 12 pack a day (doesn't seem like much). Day 4 of abstaining, dropped dead from withdrawals.
Seems like a helluva lot to me, haha, but fair point. That level of consumption definitely messes with your brain over time. But to me, the better comparison in the first place isn't with eating to alcohol or drugs, but rather something like gambling.0 -
Liftng4Lis wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
To be fair, the better analogy would be friends that died from overeating... And I suspect most of us know someone who died from a condition related to obesity.Liftng4Lis wrote: »
NOFood Addiction is absolutely real and like every other addiction, is a disease of the mind and body. Alcoholics don't simply "enjoy alcohol" and can't stop by willing their desire away. When they have one drink, their brain is sent a signal that says, "GIVE ME MORE!" There is also the mental component where alcoholics have learned to numb their emotions by adding alcohol, so it is the natural "go to" whenever any emotional experience, happy or sad comes up. The same is true for food addicts. There are numerous studies about the way sugar affects the brain and studies show that it is addictive and habit forming as cocaine. The only difference is that awareness of cocaine addiction is widely spread and value laden, while sugar addiction is only now coming to the forefront of social awareness.
Not everyone who is overweight is a food addict. Some people can learn to eat well and stay healthy or lose their weight without it ever coming back on. They are able to have sugar, flour, treats etc with no message to their brain saying "EAT MORE," while those with food addiction, skinny or large, can't stop at just one and obsess about the food until they either consume it or painstakingly manage to direct their attention elsewhere.
Fortunately there is a 12 step program for Food Addicts (foodaddicts.org), which can help lead those who are food addicts to recovery and learn to manage and overcome this disease.
How many friends have you had die from not being able to stop from eating a whopper?
Ask me how many friends I have had die because they couldn't stop drinking?
I think there's a difference between dying from something related to obesity, but which is a longer-term result or less predictable result and someone who directly died from being unable to stop overeating. Humans engage in all kinds of risky behavior because they convince themselves the risks don't really apply to them, but that's not addiction IMO.
Something like someone 600 lbs eating themselves to death does seem more analogous to me, and it does happen. But that doesn't mean that someone who regularly eats more cookies than she'd like is a "sugar addict," and that's the kind of usage that I think is absurd.
But as I said above, I do think true compulsive overeating or binge eating disorder is comparable in important respects.
Enjoying food or plain old overeating, no. I enjoy food, I have the desire to overindulge at various times, I certainly was able to get fat as a result, but to compare that kind of thing to addiction doesn't ring true at all to my experience.
And since a number of people have raised it, the cocaine=sugar thing isn't even related to an inability to stop eating sugar or moderate. It's based on the fact that eating sugar is extremely pleasurable to rats and, I'm sure, to humans.
You're missing the point I was trying to make. It's not logical to compare someone who died because they couldn't stop drinking with someone who did stop eating. One stopped, one did not. If you're going to compare the problem eater with the problem drinker, I know people that have died from both. If you're going to compare the person who stopped drinking with the person who stopped their uncontrolled eating, then I do not know anyone who died from either.
One of my friends in detox, only drank a 12 pack a day (doesn't seem like much). Day 4 of abstaining, dropped dead from withdrawals.
I don't think the dangerousness of withdrawal is really the issue, although I agree with your broader point. A pretty high percentage of alcoholics aren't physically addicted in that way, because it's common to be able to drink alcoholically for years and still not be, but that's doesn't make them not real alcoholics. Similarly, other drugs have less dangerous withdrawals than alcohol (though horrible, of course) and that doesn't mean they are less addictive--they are in many cases more physically addictive in the "leads to withdrawal" sense. Also, some drugs that are physically addictive are far less psychologically or emotionally so, like caffeine as just one example.
The idea that liking sugar is like cocaine addiction seems absurd to me, but not primarily because there's no risk or real pain associated with quitting sugar that is remotely analogous. (Although of course that's true, and that people want to claim otherwise is one of the most mind-boggling aspects of this discussion.)0 -
With alcoholism, you are allowed to remove every shred of it from your home.
With food addiction, you have to keep it in your home, right there.
How is that not tougher?
How, also, is tougher not subjective?
Wrong answer. You dont have to keep mountains of fatty/sugary/high calorie food in your home. Nor do you have to go into the supermarket, physically pick it up, put it in a trolley, take it home, cook/prepare it.... I think you get the picture.
yup someone explained that on the previous page and had me cracking up, imagining someone addicted to broccoli (sorry to any who are addicted to broccoli, I don't mean to offend).
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snowflake930 wrote: »Interesting topic. For the first time, last weekend, I was thinking about this and comparing it to what a person addicted to alcohol feels. I constantly think about food. What I am going to eat next. Justify to myself that I will be able to start over again tomorrow if I overindulge. How is this NOT an addiction? I can have alcohol in the house and have no problem not drinking any, for me that is easy. Not so with food. Call it what you will, to me it IS an addiction.
.......................and, everyone has to eat to survive. Not so with alcohol.
So if eating at home is what it comes down to, you can control the amount of food in your house before it gets there, right?.....
Of course I can control the amount of food coming into the house, same as an alcoholic can control the amount of booze he/she purchases. Doesn't make it any easier, and grocery stores are open 24/7 here, liquor stores 8a.m. to 10 p.m. M-Sat., bars only until 2a.m. Food is certainly a lot more avail, all day, every day.
Kudos to you Eldamiano, for not having an addiction problem! You are a stellar human being.
BTW, just for the record, over the past 29 months I have lost over 160# and I am "normal" weight. It does not make it easier, and it is a struggle almost every day. Thanks so much for your understanding.
Hopefully, with age, you will acquire a little more compassion and understanding, and have the fortune to not develop an addiction problem.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
To be fair, the better analogy would be friends that died from overeating... And I suspect most of us know someone who died from a condition related to obesity.Liftng4Lis wrote: »
NOFood Addiction is absolutely real and like every other addiction, is a disease of the mind and body. Alcoholics don't simply "enjoy alcohol" and can't stop by willing their desire away. When they have one drink, their brain is sent a signal that says, "GIVE ME MORE!" There is also the mental component where alcoholics have learned to numb their emotions by adding alcohol, so it is the natural "go to" whenever any emotional experience, happy or sad comes up. The same is true for food addicts. There are numerous studies about the way sugar affects the brain and studies show that it is addictive and habit forming as cocaine. The only difference is that awareness of cocaine addiction is widely spread and value laden, while sugar addiction is only now coming to the forefront of social awareness.
Not everyone who is overweight is a food addict. Some people can learn to eat well and stay healthy or lose their weight without it ever coming back on. They are able to have sugar, flour, treats etc with no message to their brain saying "EAT MORE," while those with food addiction, skinny or large, can't stop at just one and obsess about the food until they either consume it or painstakingly manage to direct their attention elsewhere.
Fortunately there is a 12 step program for Food Addicts (foodaddicts.org), which can help lead those who are food addicts to recovery and learn to manage and overcome this disease.
How many friends have you had die from not being able to stop from eating a whopper?
Ask me how many friends I have had die because they couldn't stop drinking?
I think there's a difference between dying from something related to obesity, but which is a longer-term result or less predictable result and someone who directly died from being unable to stop overeating. Humans engage in all kinds of risky behavior because they convince themselves the risks don't really apply to them, but that's not addiction IMO.
Something like someone 600 lbs eating themselves to death does seem more analogous to me, and it does happen. But that doesn't mean that someone who regularly eats more cookies than she'd like is a "sugar addict," and that's the kind of usage that I think is absurd.
But as I said above, I do think true compulsive overeating or binge eating disorder is comparable in important respects.
Enjoying food or plain old overeating, no. I enjoy food, I have the desire to overindulge at various times, I certainly was able to get fat as a result, but to compare that kind of thing to addiction doesn't ring true at all to my experience.
And since a number of people have raised it, the cocaine=sugar thing isn't even related to an inability to stop eating sugar or moderate. It's based on the fact that eating sugar is extremely pleasurable to rats and, I'm sure, to humans.
You're missing the point I was trying to make. It's not logical to compare someone who died because they couldn't stop drinking with someone who did stop eating. One stopped, one did not. If you're going to compare the problem eater with the problem drinker, I know people that have died from both. If you're going to compare the person who stopped drinking with the person who stopped their uncontrolled eating, then I do not know anyone who died from either.
Okay, yes, I missed your point.
Fact stands that while eating yourself to death in a rather direct sense does happen, it's pretty unusual and not the same thing as being overweight, even to the point that it's a negative factor in your health.
Drinking yourself to death or to the point of basically giving up the rest of your life seems to me a lot more common, and to compare that to having a hard time saying no to a third cookie seems utterly ridiculous and kind of offensive to me (and I'm not saying the alcoholic is not at fault, sad as it is for everyone involved). I don't think you were making the argument I'm complaining about, however.
And again, I think it's interesting that the essence of the "sugar is an addiction" argument seems to be that it's not possible for someone who is addicted to sugar to stop; that they are not responsible for gaining weight, but they are victims of multinational corporations or BigAg. I completely believe that people are alcoholics and addicted to various drugs, but I wouldn't say that makes them not responsible for how they respond to their addiction or bad acts when on the drugs, that BigLiquor is to blame. Maybe some people made that argument in 1920, but we seem to have gotten over it.
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Food Addiction is absolutely real and like every other addiction, is a disease of the mind and body. Alcoholics don't simply "enjoy alcohol" and can't stop by willing their desire away. When they have one drink, their brain is sent a signal that says, "GIVE ME MORE!" There is also the mental component where alcoholics have learned to numb their emotions by adding alcohol, so it is the natural "go to" whenever any emotional experience, happy or sad comes up. The same is true for food addicts. There are numerous studies about the way sugar affects the brain and studies show that it is addictive and habit forming as cocaine. The only difference is that awareness of cocaine addiction is widely spread and value laden, while sugar addiction is only now coming to the forefront of social awareness.
Not everyone who is overweight is a food addict. Some people can learn to eat well and stay healthy or lose their weight without it ever coming back on. They are able to have sugar, flour, treats etc with no message to their brain saying "EAT MORE," while those with food addiction, skinny or large, can't stop at just one and obsess about the food until they either consume it or painstakingly manage to direct their attention elsewhere.
Fortunately there is a 12 step program for Food Addicts (foodaddicts.org), which can help lead those who are food addicts to recovery and learn to manage and overcome this disease.Liftng4Lis wrote: »
NOFood Addiction is absolutely real and like every other addiction, is a disease of the mind and body. Alcoholics don't simply "enjoy alcohol" and can't stop by willing their desire away. When they have one drink, their brain is sent a signal that says, "GIVE ME MORE!" There is also the mental component where alcoholics have learned to numb their emotions by adding alcohol, so it is the natural "go to" whenever any emotional experience, happy or sad comes up. The same is true for food addicts. There are numerous studies about the way sugar affects the brain and studies show that it is addictive and habit forming as cocaine. The only difference is that awareness of cocaine addiction is widely spread and value laden, while sugar addiction is only now coming to the forefront of social awareness.
Not everyone who is overweight is a food addict. Some people can learn to eat well and stay healthy or lose their weight without it ever coming back on. They are able to have sugar, flour, treats etc with no message to their brain saying "EAT MORE," while those with food addiction, skinny or large, can't stop at just one and obsess about the food until they either consume it or painstakingly manage to direct their attention elsewhere.
Fortunately there is a 12 step program for Food Addicts (foodaddicts.org), which can help lead those who are food addicts to recovery and learn to manage and overcome this disease.
How many friends have you had die from not being able to stop from eating a whopper?
Ask me how many friends I have had die because they couldn't stop drinking?
no friends of mine have BUT its hard to ignore all the stories and tv shows on people who are eating themselves to death and no its not a simple case of going down to your local burger king and kicking the bucket after ONE burger. its about someone who cannot simply stop even being told they will die if they dont. Just like an alcoholic! being very obese is very dangerous and if you get to that point it can kill you. So to be me that seems serious too.
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With alcoholism, you are allowed to remove every shred of it from your home.
With food addiction, you have to keep it in your home, right there.
How is that not tougher?
How, also, is tougher not subjective?
Wrong answer. You dont have to keep mountains of fatty/sugary/high calorie food in your home. Nor do you have to go into the supermarket, physically pick it up, put it in a trolley, take it home, cook/prepare it.... I think you get the picture.
yup someone explained that on the previous page and had me cracking up, imagining someone addicted to broccoli (sorry to any who are addicted to broccoli, I don't mean to offend).
well my guinea pigs are very offended!! lol
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Just from personal experience, my using food as comfort does not compare to my old habit of using heroin for comfort. Totally different ballgames. I would have done, and had, done ANYTHING for heroin. Stole, sold my body, used all of my money, etc. NOTHING else mattered, the only thing you think about is getting high. I really don't know anyone that has neglected their family, became a prostitute, became homeless, stole in order to get a fix of cake. Do I use food in some of the same ways that I used heroin-maybe. But even if I do it is not nearly at the same level of addiction, not even close.0
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registerednurse2014 wrote: »Just from personal experience, my using food as comfort does not compare to my old habit of using heroin for comfort. Totally different ballgames. I would have done, and had, done ANYTHING for heroin. Stole, sold my body, used all of my money, etc. NOTHING else mattered, the only thing you think about is getting high. I really don't know anyone that has neglected their family, became a prostitute, became homeless, stole in order to get a fix of cake. Do I use food in some of the same ways that I used heroin-maybe. But even if I do it is not nearly at the same level of addiction, not even close.
That right there was and has always been my point.
I have never said drugs and/or alcohol are not used in the same way but to call it an addiction eh...
However I had an interesting convo with my hubby last night...his conclusion...
anything people do repeatedly for the sheer pleasure of it that is destructive in some way is (in his opinion) an addiction...either physical ie drugs or behavioural ie sex, food, video games.....but it does not negate the need for personal responsibility to quit said behaviour...
I think that right there also speaks volumes...if you use food as comfort, get obese then claim you can't stop (cause you are addicted) so you can lose weight and not die of compications from it (heart disease etc) you are negating your personal responsibitly for your behaviour and choices....0 -
registerednurse2014 wrote: »Just from personal experience, my using food as comfort does not compare to my old habit of using heroin for comfort. Totally different ballgames. I would have done, and had, done ANYTHING for heroin. Stole, sold my body, used all of my money, etc. NOTHING else mattered, the only thing you think about is getting high. I really don't know anyone that has neglected their family, became a prostitute, became homeless, stole in order to get a fix of cake. Do I use food in some of the same ways that I used heroin-maybe. But even if I do it is not nearly at the same level of addiction, not even close.
That right there was and has always been my point.
I have never said drugs and/or alcohol are not used in the same way but to call it an addiction eh...
However I had an interesting convo with my hubby last night...his conclusion...
anything people do repeatedly for the sheer pleasure of it that is destructive in some way is (in his opinion) an addiction...either physical ie drugs or behavioural ie sex, food, video games.....but it does not negate the need for personal responsibility to quit said behaviour...
I think that right there also speaks volumes...if you use food as comfort, get obese then claim you can't stop (cause you are addicted) so you can lose weight and not die of compications from it (heart disease etc) you are negating your personal responsibitly for your behaviour and choices....
So all the health organizations, journals and the like that recognize psychological addictions are just misinformed? I raised this a bit earlier in the thread, but this argument largely comes down to semantics, but the problem with debating semantics is that the definition of the term addiction is not clear. Depending on how you define addiction and which organization/doctor you ask, an eating disorder may or may not be considered an addiction.
The same for compulsive gambling. Do people really go up to gamblers whose "addiction" has cost them their job/home/marriage/etc. and say "addiction eh... I dunno about that buddy?" Does it even matter if one addiction or even compulsion is more destructive than the other? Outside of how a given disorder needs to be treated and the health organizations debating the definition of the term "addiction," who even cares whether something is an "addiction" or not?
I'm with you though on personality responsibility, and people shouldn't play the victim and blame the food companies for their situation. But then again, I don't personally have a lot of sympathy for people with other self-inflicted addictions either, and I'd chalk that up to personal responsibility as well.0 -
registerednurse2014 wrote: »Just from personal experience, my using food as comfort does not compare to my old habit of using heroin for comfort. Totally different ballgames. I would have done, and had, done ANYTHING for heroin. Stole, sold my body, used all of my money, etc. NOTHING else mattered, the only thing you think about is getting high. I really don't know anyone that has neglected their family, became a prostitute, became homeless, stole in order to get a fix of cake. Do I use food in some of the same ways that I used heroin-maybe. But even if I do it is not nearly at the same level of addiction, not even close.
That right there was and has always been my point.
I have never said drugs and/or alcohol are not used in the same way but to call it an addiction eh...
However I had an interesting convo with my hubby last night...his conclusion...
anything people do repeatedly for the sheer pleasure of it that is destructive in some way is (in his opinion) an addiction...either physical ie drugs or behavioural ie sex, food, video games.....but it does not negate the need for personal responsibility to quit said behaviour...
I think that right there also speaks volumes...if you use food as comfort, get obese then claim you can't stop (cause you are addicted) so you can lose weight and not die of compications from it (heart disease etc) you are negating your personal responsibitly for your behaviour and choices....
I would agree with your husband on the points he made.
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Except for the fact that you can't avoid food unless you want to starve to death... but you can avoid alcohol...0
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Except for the fact that you can't avoid food unless you want to starve to death... but you can avoid alcohol...
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to food never mean that they are addicted to all food. Usually they say they are "addicted" to cake or fried chicken. If they were truly addicted to food, when they had a craving then a carrot stick would suffice just as well as a Hershey bar. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high calorie foods that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
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Except for the fact that you can't avoid food unless you want to starve to death... but you can avoid alcohol...
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to food never mean that they are addicted to all food. Usually they say they are "addicted" to cake or fried chicken. If they were truly addicted to food, when they had a craving then a carrot stick would suffice just as well as a Hershey bar. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high calorie foods that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to drugs never mean they are addicted to all drugs. Usually they are "addicted" to heroin or cocaine. If they were truly addicted to drugs, when they had a craving then a Tylenol would suffice just as well as an eight ball. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high impact drugs that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.0 -
Except for the fact that you can't avoid food unless you want to starve to death... but you can avoid alcohol...
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to food never mean that they are addicted to all food. Usually they say they are "addicted" to cake or fried chicken. If they were truly addicted to food, when they had a craving then a carrot stick would suffice just as well as a Hershey bar. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high calorie foods that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to drugs never mean they are addicted to all drugs. Usually they are "addicted" to heroin or cocaine. If they were truly addicted to drugs, when they had a craving then a Tylenol would suffice just as well as an eight ball. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high impact drugs that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
You wouldn't have people drinking gasoline, huffing paint doing whatever they can when they can't get theit drug of choice. That isn't the same as having splenda instead of sugar0 -
Except for the fact that you can't avoid food unless you want to starve to death... but you can avoid alcohol...
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to food never mean that they are addicted to all food. Usually they say they are "addicted" to cake or fried chicken. If they were truly addicted to food, when they had a craving then a carrot stick would suffice just as well as a Hershey bar. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high calorie foods that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to drugs never mean they are addicted to all drugs. Usually they are "addicted" to heroin or cocaine. If they were truly addicted to drugs, when they had a craving then a Tylenol would suffice just as well as an eight ball. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high impact drugs that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
You wouldn't have people drinking gasoline, huffing paint doing whatever they can when they can't get theit drug of choice. That isn't the same as having splenda instead of sugar
I wouldn't disagree with that, but I would say that someone who says they're addicted to cake isn't going to pass up brownies or ice cream when they can't get their favorite either.
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Types of addictions, may, or may not be more harmful, depending on your point of view and the long term affects. However, it does not necessarily, make one addiction better than the other, or worse, for that matter.
Stands to reason though, you can survive without using other addictions, if you can end the habit. Not so with food. Easier, or harder, who is to say. To the individual their addiction is worse to them.
I totally take personal responsibility for my issues with food. No one else is to blame for my "abusing" food.0
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