I can't trust myself...
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meridianova wrote: »you could be having to balance trying to eat right and exercise without allowing former eating disorder issues from taking over and saying "fat f'ks like you aren't worthy of food."
i don't know how much more of this i can take. if i can't trust my self, who am i supposed to trust?
Talk to a therapist. Reading your post was throwing up ED flares for me... and lo and behold, you've dealt with an ED. I get that. I still think like this (add in my hormonal issues, including not having a thyroid and never having stable levels, and I REALLY feel a disconnect with my body). But this mindset of feeling like you can't trust your body? That sounds like the ED still talking.
The hard truth is that EDs can have some pretty long-lasting effects on our bodies, often from screwing with hormones and lean body mass (and even organ and bone health). It can take quite awhile to get our bodies to a point where it'll line up more evenly with "normal" (I mean this only as "non-ED" people).
With your thoughts and some of the issues you're having, I'd definitely recommend seeing a specialist who handles EDs, be it a therapist or dietician (preferably both). Even when we're weight restored, we're not necessarily "recovered." Professionals can really help.
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meridianova wrote: »
LOL!!! That's not giving up!!! That is trying in the opposite direction lololol
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meridianova wrote: »Are you currently losing 1/2 to a pound a week? If so, that is a perfectly acceptable rate of loss.
if you average it all out... yes, it's about half a pound a week. that's the good news. the bad news is that according to all the calculations, my deficit is MUCH higher than the 250 per day i'd need for a simple 1/2 pound per week... my deficit should have me losing closer to 1.3lbs per week.
Yay! You're losing!
I read through your original post and thought, "wow...that sounds a lot like what I'm dealing with." Then I read that you're still losing 1/2# (average) per week and I got a wee bit jealous.
I know it's frustrating to lose way less than you expected, but it's something! I have lost nothing in a very long time (even with tracking, exercising, etc.) So take a minute, be compassionate towards yourself and be pleased with the success you've had, even if it's not what you expected!
Even though the methods you're using are tried and true for many, that doesn't mean they'll work for YOUR body. Unfortunately, there's no magical solution that works perfectly for everyone. One thing to consider is that if you're constantly stressed, your body is going to not react as readily to changes. If you can take some time to breathe and relax, you may start noticing better responses in your body.
I'm so happy to hear that you're going to visit with your doctor--hopefully they can shine some light on what's going on.
Best of luck!0 -
I've been there...Keep looking for the answers...I went two years eating less than 1200 cals a day, on a low carb, low Inflammation, clean eating plan. And put on 15lbs a year....was horrible, people that knew me well asked if I had an eating disorder because of how little I was eating and I was judged by the rest of the world for being fat. I feel your pain. I was exactly where you were three months ago. Do I have an answer for you? No because everyone's health is different. But if your math isn't working, there is something wrong. I don't trust my body either now, even though it's finally working, I keep expecting it to 'F me over....0
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You didn't say how much you have to lose. If you're losing half a pound a week, you're doing great. If you want to lose more like a pound a week, decrease your calories from what you're currently eating by 250/day or add in more exercise. You could "earn" that much from an extra 30 minutes of moderate cardio daily. I tend to do high-numbers long workouts on the weekend when I have time, and then "dole out" the excess calories over the course of the week.
The numbers in the calculators are an estimate, based on data from other people of your age, height, and weight. But everyone's different. Your complaint is like saying, "the average 3-bedroom house in my neighborhood sells for $400K, so how come mine is only worth $350K?" Well, because every house is slightly different. Some houses are worth a little more, and some a little less. The average means very little about any one individual. It's great that you're collecting the data to understand how your body works.
The main thing is you're going in the right direction. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
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So its a complaint about not losing 1.3 projected, but instead losing .5 a week?
If its not medical, then id be looking at the accuracy of your logging. In any event you have to write down every variable and just adjust each one to measure effect. Why not get the help of some of your mfp friends or get one of the big losers to run through your diet and double check your plan. I accpet its frustrating but none of us are so unique that the same lwase dont apply to them as they do to every other person, hence just being patient and finding what the problem is.
http://www.builtlean.com/2012/05/22/weight-loss-plateau/
http://www.jillianmichaels.com/fit/lose-weight/break-through-weight-loss-plateau
I hope you have found a solution.0 -
This is just a quick reply as I don't have the time to put on a full reply atm but believe me I feel your pain. I can't even lose weight on a 1200cal diet, it's so unfair and as a former ED sufferer myself it's very triggering to not lose on a normal diet. I even tried the whole eating more approach and nothing shifts the weight so I'm on 1000cals a day now as I feel I have no choice. As I say, the full facts aren't here so bot looking to be judged.meridianova wrote: »if there's one thing i've learned over the last 5 months of being on MFP, it's that i cannot trust myself.
this isn't about willpower or dedication. this isn't a case of "not wanting it badly enough." this isn't even a matter of making excuses. there aren't any to make.
everything i eat is weighed, measured, portioned, and logged. yes, everything. i exercise, on average, 4 days a week, usually going for 5... circuit weight training with half an hour of cardio. if all you looked at were the raw numbers of intake versus BMR and activity level, i should be melting away.
but i'm not. and emotionally it's killing me. every week or so, i download my logged data into that awesome little spreadsheet tracker thingy by evisgenix (or whatever his name is). according to that, based on my oTDEE, my activity level comes in at 1.1... in other words, as far as my body is concerned, going to the gym 4-5 days a week equates to not even getting out of bed in the morning.
i can't trust myself. i can't trust the calculations that tell me what my BMR is supposed to be, what my intake caloric levels should be to lose each week, or the multiplyers that indicate what my daily burn rate would be. i can't trust that any of those numbers are even close to where i need to be in order to get to that sainted, deified caloric deficit i'm supposed to be creating to lose weight.
so because i can't trust my own body to do what it's supposed to do, to do what every other body on this planet supposedly does under the same circumstances, i'm losing the battle... not just with my body, but with my mind as well. i've been going through these posts for the last day or so, hoping to find someone else that might be in the same boat... just about every post on here says something along the lines of "oh i lost XXlbs in the first few weeks but now i'm stuck!" or "i lost 50+ pounds but that last 10 is really hard!" people, i would literally KILL something to be in your shoes right now. you want motivation that you're doing just fine? think of this... you could be me right now. you could be stuck, doing all the right things, taking all the right advice, and be stuck with a body that you can't trust because you have no idea what it needs or doesn't need. you could be having to balance trying to eat right and exercise without allowing former eating disorder issues from taking over and saying "fat f'ks like you aren't worthy of food."
i don't know how much more of this i can take. if i can't trust my self, who am i supposed to trust?
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meridianova wrote: »you could be having to balance trying to eat right and exercise without allowing former eating disorder issues from taking over and saying "fat f'ks like you aren't worthy of food."
i don't know how much more of this i can take. if i can't trust my self, who am i supposed to trust?
Talk to a therapist. Reading your post was throwing up ED flares for me... and lo and behold, you've dealt with an ED. I get that. I still think like this (add in my hormonal issues, including not having a thyroid and never having stable levels, and I REALLY feel a disconnect with my body). But this mindset of feeling like you can't trust your body? That sounds like the ED still talking.
The hard truth is that EDs can have some pretty long-lasting effects on our bodies, often from screwing with hormones and lean body mass (and even organ and bone health). It can take quite awhile to get our bodies to a point where it'll line up more evenly with "normal" (I mean this only as "non-ED" people).
With your thoughts and some of the issues you're having, I'd definitely recommend seeing a specialist who handles EDs, be it a therapist or dietician (preferably both). Even when we're weight restored, we're not necessarily "recovered." Professionals can really help.
thank you for this. strangely enough, when i succeed at losing what i need to lose, they don't flare up. when i struggle, they threaten to take over completely.
i discovered low-carbing about 15 years ago, and it seemed like the perfect solution: strict boundaries, complete freedom within those boundaries, and definitive weight loss results. i've had some other significant medical issues besides just the eating disorder, and i'm thinking that those other medical events caused more damage than the ED did.
we'll see what my next round of bloodwork shows.0 -
You didn't say how much you have to lose.
goal #1 was set at 40lbs from my starting weight... i have a total of about 60-70 that i'd LIKE to lose, and even that loss still puts me in the "overweight" BMI category.If you're losing half a pound a week, you're doing great. If you want to lose more like a pound a week, decrease your calories from what you're currently eating by 250/day or add in more exercise. You could "earn" that much from an extra 30 minutes of moderate cardio daily. I tend to do high-numbers long workouts on the weekend when I have time, and then "dole out" the excess calories over the course of the week.
apparently you didn't see one of my previous responses, but if i cut another 250 calories a day, i'm down in the 1,100 range. if the standard, scientifically accepted calculations of BMR/RMR and expected TDEE based on activity level are applied to me, i'm already creating a deficit of better than 650-700 calories a day, which would put me on track to lose 1.3lbs per week. cutting by another 250 would put me at a projected deficit of 1,200 calories per day (based on the "active" multiplyer since i exercise 3-5 times a week), or 8,800 calories per week. by that math, in order for me to lose a pound a week, i have to do as much work as someone losing 2.5 pounds per week. this somehow doesn't seem wrong to most people, yet if i sold one person a book and charged them $1, but sold the next person the exact same book for $2.50, everyone would flip and say "that's not fair!"
and people wonder why i will shout from the rooftops that "it's NOT all about the math!"The numbers in the calculators are an estimate, based on data from other people of your age, height, and weight. But everyone's different. Your complaint is like saying, "the average 3-bedroom house in my neighborhood sells for $400K, so how come mine is only worth $350K?" Well, because every house is slightly different. Some houses are worth a little more, and some a little less. The average means very little about any one individual.
i realize that they're an estimate. i realize everyone's different. in your example, there's a 14% difference between the two figures, and if that's all i was dealing with i wouldn't be so frustrated. in biology and physiology, a 14% deviation from the calculated standard would be a little off but expected.
in my situation, all the other houses that are the same age, layout, upkeep, and on the same amount of land, in the same neighborhood as mine are going for $400,000, but mine gets valued at $180,000.It's great that you're collecting the data to understand how your body works.
The main thing is you're going in the right direction. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
the data i'm collecting is going straight to my endocrinologist at my next appointment so i can show hard numbers and how ridiculously OFF my results are.0 -
So its a complaint about not losing 1.3 projected, but instead losing .5 a week?
If its not medical, then id be looking at the accuracy of your logging. In any event you have to write down every variable and just adjust each one to measure effect. Why not get the help of some of your mfp friends or get one of the big losers to run through your diet and double check your plan. I accpet its frustrating but none of us are so unique that the same lwase dont apply to them as they do to every other person, hence just being patient and finding what the problem is.
http://www.builtlean.com/2012/05/22/weight-loss-plateau/
http://www.jillianmichaels.com/fit/lose-weight/break-through-weight-loss-plateau
I hope you have found a solution.
one of my freinds here has very graciously gone over my diet a few times and helped me adjust my macros, along with sending me additional information that helps me tweak and understand why i'm tweaking which parts, it's just not having any effect.0 -
You made a statement of - based on the "active" multiplyer since i exercise 3-5 times a week
Out of curiosity -- are you using the multiplier strictly based on exercise or your overall lifestyle? What do you do for work? Do you have hobbies outside of work? I am on my feet for a couple hours a day at work, do frequent projects around the house & workout 5-6 days a week (biking) for at least an hour. I still consider myself as sedentary because I do spend a significant time sitting at work rather than standing/moving.
Maybe the active calculation is one of the pieces throwing a wrench into your numbers. How much do they change if you adjust that downwards?
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You made a statement of - based on the "active" multiplyer since i exercise 3-5 times a week
Out of curiosity -- are you using the multiplier strictly based on exercise or your overall lifestyle? What do you do for work? Do you have hobbies outside of work? I am on my feet for a couple hours a day at work, do frequent projects around the house & workout 5-6 days a week (biking) for at least an hour. I still consider myself as sedentary because I do spend a significant time sitting at work rather than standing/moving.
i originally set it up in MFP for a sedentary lifestyle, and that got me nowhere, so i cut that back by about 200 calories. i'm a bit less active than you... i have an office job but am up and down with stuff, then i go to the gym, then i'm home doing things around the house (cooking, laundry, cleaning, etc) for a couple of hours before i finally perch on the couch at around 9pm.Maybe the active calculation is one of the pieces throwing a wrench into your numbers. How much do they change if you adjust that downwards?
i've been using the weight loss data graph created by EvgeniZyntx, and one of the awesome graphs in that tracker shows your observed and theoretical TDEE, averaged over 30 days, as calculated by the ketch-mcardle method. that graph shows where my sedentary/lightly active/active/etc. TDEE rates would be utilizing the ketch-mcardle formula for my BMR. it also calculates my oTDEE based on intake and weight loss. it also gives me an oTDEE observed activity level which correlates to the multiplyers.
my oTDEE is currently registering at 1.07. in other words, going to work, going to the gym, and doing stuff around the house is the metabolic equivalent of not getting out of bed at all. this is what sends up BIG RED FLAGS in my mind.
so one of two things is happening... either my actual BMR/RMR is somewhere around 800 calories a day (which is the equivalent of someone my height, my age, and about 75lbs, not 209), or my body is defying the laws of thermodynamics and allowing me to get 15-18 calories of work out of every gram of body fat instead of the accepted 9 calories per gram.
if my actual BMR is 800, something is ridiculously wrong.
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First time poster here, although I've been using MFP for about 3 years.
Your post caught my eye because it resonates with me too. BUT there are ways to change things.
I haven't read all of the replies so my apologies if I'm repeating stuff.
I also apologize if I'm teaching you to suck eggs with a few things too. Bear with me.
OK, so here's the deal as I see it.
1. As already advised above, see your doc, tell him/her that you train like a Trojan and eat a healthy, clean, calorie restrictive diet, yet the weight won't budge. Ask for a blood test. I did this and it was found that I was slightly hypo-thyroid (slow metabolism). A pill each morning sorts that one out.
If you feel sluggish and have a low libido, this could be the problem.
2. Forget what MFP or anything/anyone else says you should be eating for your weight. The amount of calories that your body needs to maintain, gain, or lose body fat is an individual thing which only your body can tell you.
If your weight isn't budging, you've already found your personal caloric intake for weight maintenance. Reduce this by 200 calories per day for 2 weeks. If there's still no weight loss reduce it by another 200 calories until you start to lose weight. Once the weight loss stops again, reduce it again.
At 5ft 9ins and 183lbs, training 4-5 times per week and burning 5000+ calories per week purely from training, I can maintain my present body-weight on only 1900 calories a day.
According to "science" I should be a waif-like stick insect by now. To lose 2lb a week I only need to take in about 1700 calories per day. If I didn't train that would be even lower.
We're all different and so are our bodies.
3. Macros - eat for energy. High, clean, carbs (fruits, vegetables, rice, whole grains, simple sugars - about 60% of your diet) and low fat (fish, avocado, nuts etc). Let the protein side of things take care of itself. Start off with 20% fat then reduce it even further if necessary.
Quite often, however, Thyroid sufferers find it easier to lose weight on a lower carb, higher protein diet instead.
5. Concentrate more on cardio training to burn off calories. Replace resistance training with weights with progressive body-weight exercises instead (pull ups, press ups, crunches, dips etc).
Muscle mass weighs more than body fat, which leads me nicely onto ...
6. Forget the body weight and BMI - concentrate on Body Fat % instead. A bodybuilder, for example, can weigh 25st and be morbidly obese according to the BMI scale, but actually have a body fat % of under 10%.
If it's fat you want to remove, why not go by your BF% reading? At 183lbs I'm "overweight" for my height - except I'm not. I wear 34" jeans, have a 42" chest and a BF of 17% and falling - acceptable at the age of 51.
6. If you burn off 1000 calories in a training session, don't add that onto the amount that you can safely eat that day. Try to stick to whatever your daily caloric intake is as much as possible without making allowances for energy expenditure.
A couple of other things you could try are:
Train fasted, then give it an hour or so after training before eating your main meal of the day. This way your body utilizes more fat as energy to train, and your metabolism is heightened post workout to burn off more calories from the meal. If you can't train fasted, eat low carb foods pre-training.
Try taking on all of your daily food within a window of 8 hours or less. (Also known as Intermittent Fasting) If you get hungry, fill yourself up with water.
Constantly drink water. Lots of it. It fills you up and stops you from feeling hungry, and it's necessary to prevent dehydration, water retention, and constipation. You can also train harder when fully hydrated.
Your present weight loss is OK for long-term weight reduction. Anything more than 2lbs per week is usually just liquid loss and will be quickly replaced by your body. But I empathize with your frustration and have had a degree of success with the above things.
Play around with stuff to see what works best for you by all means, but never ever give up.
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already had one blood test which showed normal (2.6) TSH but low free T3 and T4. if the same persists at my next test, i'll insist that the free T numbers be evaluated because the more research i do, the more i'm seeing that those can be just as indicative of problems like hashimoto's as the TSH numbers will be.Britabroad2 wrote: »OK, so here's the deal as I see it.
1. As already advised above, see your doc, tell him/her that you train like a Trojan and eat a healthy, clean, calorie restrictive diet, yet the weight won't budge. Ask for a blood test. I did this and it was found that I was slightly hypo-thyroid (slow metabolism). A pill each morning sorts that one out.
If you feel sluggish and have a low libido, this could be the problem.
that will come when i get medical clearance to drop below 1,200. on average, i'm already around 1,400.2. Forget what MFP or anything/anyone else says you should be eating for your weight. The amount of calories that your body needs to maintain, gain, or lose body fat is an individual thing which only your body can tell you.
If your weight isn't budging, you've already found your personal caloric intake for weight maintenance. Reduce this by 200 calories per day for 2 weeks. If there's still no weight loss reduce it by another 200 calories until you start to lose weight. Once the weight loss stops again, reduce it again.
i low carb already, for a variety of reasons. fat has more energy per gram and is more satisfying than carbs.3. Macros - eat for energy. High, clean, carbs (fruits, vegetables, rice, whole grains, simple sugars - about 60% of your diet) and low fat (fish, avocado, nuts etc). Let the protein side of things take care of itself. Start off with 20% fat then reduce it even further if necessary.
Quite often, however, Thyroid sufferers find it easier to lose weight on a lower carb, higher protein diet instead.
so... exactly what is the difference between the two? i'm doing resistance weight training on an HIIT-type circuit and gradually have been able to increase the reps and weight. i'm currently at 80-120lbs of resistance for legs, 45-60lbs of resistance for arms, 75-80 for ab work. serious question... what is the advantage of doing bodyweight exercises over the machines?5. Concentrate more on cardio training to burn off calories. Replace resistance training with weights with progressive body-weight exercises instead (pull ups, press ups, crunches, dips etc).
i used to do 5 days of cardio, then cut back based on some other information i was given about how obsessive cardio ends up stopping weight loss. i've cut it back to 2 days a week but again, not noticing any difference between 5 days and 2 days. next week i plan to add it back to 5 days again, just for kicks.
this becomes a goofy one... the majority of my fat is between rib cage and upper thighs, along with a buttload of stretched-out skin thanks to pregnancies. if you ONLY use my waist/hip measurements, i get around 52% bodyfat. if i use the 7 measurement caliper test, i get in the neighborhood of 40%. it would probably be closer to 30% if you ignored the floopage around my hips. i have a large frame so i already know i'm going to be on the higher end of the BMI anyway.6. Forget the body weight and BMI - concentrate on Body Fat % instead. A bodybuilder, for example, can weigh 25st and be morbidly obese according to the BMI scale, but actually have a body fat % of under 10%.
If it's fat you want to remove, why not go by your BF% reading? At 183lbs I'm "overweight" for my height - except I'm not. I wear 34" jeans, have a 42" chest and a BF of 17% and falling - acceptable at the age of 51.6. If you burn off 1000 calories in a training session, don't add that onto the amount that you can safely eat that day. Try to stick to whatever your daily caloric intake is as much as possible without making allowances for energy expenditure.
i don't know how much i'm burning with the weight training, but i do log the cardio and it comes in at around 200 calories for half an hour on the treadmill (i walk, i can't run). most of the time that's not enough to warrant eating back, and it's counterintuitive to me anyway.
when you say "fasted", do you mean with no food at all? i go to the gym after work (it's on my way home), and i keep my lunch at around 400 calories, which with some ADF systems would be considered fasting on a "down" day. by the time i leave the gym, get home, and get dinner made, i finally eat about 2 hours later.A couple of other things you could try are:
Train fasted, then give it an hour or so after training before eating your main meal of the day. This way your body utilizes more fat as energy to train, and your metabolism is heightened post workout to burn off more calories from the meal. If you can't train fasted, eat low carb foods pre-training.
already doing both of those.Try taking on all of your daily food within a window of 8 hours or less. (Also known as Intermittent Fasting) If you get hungry, fill yourself up with water.
Constantly drink water. Lots of it. It fills you up and stops you from feeling hungry, and it's necessary to prevent dehydration, water retention, and constipation. You can also train harder when fully hydrated.Your present weight loss is OK for long-term weight reduction. Anything more than 2lbs per week is usually just liquid loss and will be quickly replaced by your body. But I empathize with your frustration and have had a degree of success with the above things.
Play around with stuff to see what works best for you by all means, but never ever give up.
it would be ok IF the numbers lined up with where they're supposed to be. with more than 40lbs to lose (60, really), i should be easily and safely be able to lose 1lb per week. i don't think that's too much to ask, but i also shouldn't have to go into ridiculous deficits to do that.
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