Self hatred info I learned today

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ninerbuff
ninerbuff Posts: 48,615 Member
edited November 2014 in Motivation and Support
We had a free seminar this morning (by a psychiatrist) on how self hatred isn't constructive to self improvement or weight loss. While one can hate being fat, overweight, etc., most self hatred according to the psychiatrist, is one more of self loathing, low esteem, depression and even bordering on mental disorder. He even mentioned how it can lead to "autophobia", and create more issues with the person overall.
So what does this have to do with weight loss? Even people who lose a good amount of weight and get into a normal BMI or weight range can still have issues of self hating themselves. Initially, they hated being fat and that if they were normal, they would be more happy. Where they should be much more content because of the achievement, they look negatively at how they still aren't as "pretty", "hot" or "desirable" as their other peers who have lost weight.
It was informational for many and personally I want to converse more with the psychiatrist on what else to look for if it might be suspected that a person may have an issue with self hatred of themselves. Hopefully if I can learn more and if people need the help, I can help direct them to the right experts.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

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Replies

  • deladypilot
    deladypilot Posts: 618 Member
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    Good information and I applaud you for wanting to learn more. Anytime we can help someone else find their way, it is a good day
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,615 Member
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    I get when people are unsatisfied with their overall physique and want to change it. What I NEED to be aware of is if someone is practically self loathing about themselves regardless if they improved themselves or not. Better understanding of this will only be good for me and them.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Even people who lose a good amount of weight and get into a normal BMI or weight range can still have issues of self hating themselves. Initially, they hated being fat and that if they were normal, they would be more happy. Where they should be much more content because of the achievement, they look negatively at how they still aren't as "pretty", "hot" or "desirable" as their other peers who have lost weight.

    How would this be different from dismorphia? Is it a matter of perception? One is actual directed self hate vs. an inability to parse what they see wrt themselves in a reasonable manner?
  • SueInAz
    SueInAz Posts: 6,592 Member
    edited November 2014
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    I think the issue is that someone who hates themselves is going to be unhappy regardless of how they look. They may pin that self-loathing on their weight or some other attribute but that isn't the real issue. It could be an emotionally abusive upbringing where they were consistently told they were no good, unworthy, not loveable, etc. Sometimes it's not even an abusive relationship that causes it but seeing their mother or other role model practicing self-loathing out loud.

    People in this situation need to learn to love themselves before they'll ever be happy. Money or the perfect body do not bring instant happiness in these cases. To paraphrase Buckaroo Bonzai, "Remember, no matter where you go, there you are."
  • SueInAz
    SueInAz Posts: 6,592 Member
    edited November 2014
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    dbmata wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Even people who lose a good amount of weight and get into a normal BMI or weight range can still have issues of self hating themselves. Initially, they hated being fat and that if they were normal, they would be more happy. Where they should be much more content because of the achievement, they look negatively at how they still aren't as "pretty", "hot" or "desirable" as their other peers who have lost weight.

    How would this be different from dismorphia? Is it a matter of perception? One is actual directed self hate vs. an inability to parse what they see wrt themselves in a reasonable manner?
    Yes. Dismorphia is the inability to see oneself properly. I've seen quite a few people in these forums talk about the fact that when they look in the mirror they still see the overweight person they once were. Anorexics usually suffer from some level of dismorphia along with other issues that might cause them to decide they still aren't thin enough (an inability to control the world around them, for instance).
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,615 Member
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    dbmata wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Even people who lose a good amount of weight and get into a normal BMI or weight range can still have issues of self hating themselves. Initially, they hated being fat and that if they were normal, they would be more happy. Where they should be much more content because of the achievement, they look negatively at how they still aren't as "pretty", "hot" or "desirable" as their other peers who have lost weight.

    How would this be different from dismorphia? Is it a matter of perception? One is actual directed self hate vs. an inability to parse what they see wrt themselves in a reasonable manner?
    I think they are both are a form of mental disorder. Not sure if there is a grade that separates the two, but I'll ask an expert at our hospital and get back to you.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
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    They're different in that with dysmorphia, the person is not seeing reality - they see themselves as obese when they are healthy, for example. Self-loathers see themselves as they are, but they can't stop comparing themselves to others that are 'better' and hating themselves for not making the grade. Even if they improve themselves to meet or beat their original goals, they just move the goalposts so they are always on the losing side, no matter how much they accomplish.
  • TossaBeanBag
    TossaBeanBag Posts: 458 Member
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    Psychiatry - the profession with the highest suicide rate. How ironic.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    jbach2 wrote: »
    Psychiatry - the profession with the highest suicide rate. How ironic.

    Moreso than .mil?

    Thanks for the commentary on how this is different from dysmorphia. Appreciated. ninerbuff, would love to hear what you find out.
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
    edited November 2014
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    herrspoons wrote: »
    Self loathing is a symptom, which manifests in a number of disorders of which BDD is one.

    ^^^ this

    as for how to spot it in people you're trying to help.... things like saying "I hate myself" as opposed to "I hate being fat". Any sign of "I want to lose weight so I can be happy/like myself/live my life/etc".... you can do all of these things (and many others) while you are fat. If someone seems to mentally have their life and ability to like/accept themselves on hold until they hit a certain (sometimes unspecificed) weight/dress size/etc, then that's a red flag. This probably seems to a lot of people to be a good motivation to lose weight, but it's not, because self-loathing is a hinderance to the process. People who already like and accept themselves, but have a desire to improve themselves because they believe that they deserve better have much better motivation and are also able to cope with setbacks better. people who hate themselves go into a deeper cycle of self-blame and self-loathing with setbacks. People who like themselves tend to view setbacks much more objectively and have the motivation to pick themselves up and keep going.
  • Solar_Cat
    Solar_Cat Posts: 188 Member
    edited November 2014
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    SueInAz wrote: »
    People in this situation need to learn to love themselves before they'll ever be happy. Money or the perfect body do not bring instant happiness in these cases. To paraphrase Buckaroo Bonzai, "Remember, no matter where you go, there you are."
    Incidentally, Wherever You Go, There You Are: Mindfulness Meditation in Everyday Life is the title of an excellent book by Jon Kabat-Zinn. Highly recommended for anyone who wants a more balanced perspective on life.

    The fact is that money or the perfect body or the perfect job, home, or partner do not bring happiness to anyone, ever. Happiness always comes from within. It is an inner experience. And we create our own experience -- not in some magical woo-woo kind of way, as in the "law of attraction," but in the practical sense that our worlds consist of our inner responses.

    And it's possible to alter those responses. Mindfulness meditation is one way. Counseling is one way. There are many ways. But thinking that circumstances like a perfect body will make us happy is a perfect recipe for unhappiness.

    Why? Because it leads in one of two directions:

    1) I've reached my ideal weight and I'm still not happy. I have to keep losing, exercising, or whatever. (That way lies eating disorders and other obsessions.)

    2) I recognize that my body is as good as it's going to get, and I'm still not happy. I need more money, a better job, etc., etc. Then I'll be happy. (That way lies endless frustration. Because happiness is always within.)
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    herrspoons wrote: »
    Self loathing is a symptom, which manifests in a number of disorders of which BDD is one.

    ^^^ this

    as for how to spot it in people you're trying to help.... things like saying "I hate myself" as opposed to "I hate being fat". Any sign of "I want to lose weight so I can be happy/like myself/live my life/etc".... you can do all of these things (and many others) while you are fat. If someone seems to mentally have their life and ability to like/accept themselves on hold until they hit a certain (sometimes unspecificed) weight/dress size/etc, then that's a red flag. This probably seems to a lot of people to be a good motivation to lose weight, but it's not, because self-loathing is a hinderance to the process. People who already like and accept themselves, but have a desire to improve themselves because they believe that they deserve better have much better motivation and are also able to cope with setbacks better. people who hate themselves go into a deeper cycle of self-blame and self-loathing with setbacks. People who like themselves tend to view setbacks much more objectively and have the motivation to pick themselves up and keep going.
    Could both of those viewpoints exist at the same time, and not be say... negative?
  • loribethrice
    loribethrice Posts: 620 Member
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    I have major issues with this. I absolutely hate myself and I'm 4lbs away from my goal and I so know I'm not going to be happy when I get there. I want to lose more weight than that because my body still does not look the way I want it to even with exercise every day.
  • Patttience
    Patttience Posts: 975 Member
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    You should not go looking for people who might be self-loathing. But the obvious way to know if someone has issues with these sort of feelings is if they say a lot of punishing negative sounding things about themselves. Don't be quick to jump on someone says something like oh i'm stupid. Everyone says stuff like that. But people who are self loathing say very strong stuff about themselves to themselves and often. Whether they say it out loud in a gym or similar is hard to say. Many people keep these feelings to themselves.

    I think as a fitness instructor you should not get into this business of directing people at all on psychological matters unless they confide in you that they are struggling with depression anxiety or self esteem issues. Or if a person looks really sad, you could ask them if they are ok and you can say you are concerned about them. They might then open up and then you can suggest they get professional help. If they brush you off, there's nothing much you can do. Don't pay too much attention to them. They might come and talk to you another time if they perceive you to be a supportive person.

  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    Patttience wrote: »
    I think as a fitness instructor you should not get into this business of directing people at all on psychological matters unless they confide in you that they are struggling with depression anxiety or self esteem issues.
    Dude, he's sharing some stuff he learned. It's cool.
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    dbmata wrote: »
    herrspoons wrote: »
    Self loathing is a symptom, which manifests in a number of disorders of which BDD is one.

    ^^^ this

    as for how to spot it in people you're trying to help.... things like saying "I hate myself" as opposed to "I hate being fat". Any sign of "I want to lose weight so I can be happy/like myself/live my life/etc".... you can do all of these things (and many others) while you are fat. If someone seems to mentally have their life and ability to like/accept themselves on hold until they hit a certain (sometimes unspecificed) weight/dress size/etc, then that's a red flag. This probably seems to a lot of people to be a good motivation to lose weight, but it's not, because self-loathing is a hinderance to the process. People who already like and accept themselves, but have a desire to improve themselves because they believe that they deserve better have much better motivation and are also able to cope with setbacks better. people who hate themselves go into a deeper cycle of self-blame and self-loathing with setbacks. People who like themselves tend to view setbacks much more objectively and have the motivation to pick themselves up and keep going.
    Could both of those viewpoints exist at the same time, and not be say... negative?

    You cant accept yourself and not accept yourself at the same time.... maybe someone who accepts and likes themselves might be careless in their choice of words and not mean it when they say they can't be happy or live their life while they're fat, but if they truly believe that, then it's toxic and they obviously don't like and accept themselves. The OP asked for what to look out for in people (he's a personal trainer so I'm assuming he means his clients) - there's not going to be one single thing to look out for that's 100% effective, but if you look out for that general attitude - i.e. people saying they don't like themselves (as opposed to not liking being fat) or that they can't be happy or live their life until they are not fat any more, then that's at least something that he should take notice of.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    Hm, this is all very thought provoking.
  • kyta32
    kyta32 Posts: 670 Member
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    Actually, mindfullness is being fully aware of the here and now. To be completely mindful you need to let go of past experience and future possibilities/consequences/expectations. You fill your awareness with the present moment. Accountability is not really a possibility during mindful meditation. That is why you only spend as much time in mindfulness as you need to in order to gain the distance to calmly deal with the situation at hand.
  • pinkiezoom
    pinkiezoom Posts: 409 Member
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    Really interesting to me, as I am a self loather!
  • yoovie
    yoovie Posts: 17,121 Member
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    I got reported for posting this because it's unkind to tell people that they wont be handed their self esteem when they reach goal weight, because it's something they have to cultivate along the way. We're supposed to be encouraging and we're supposed to tell people that losing weight fixes everything.