Carb addicts?
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I'm set at 25/35/40 C,P,F. I treat it as a low-moderate carb diet. I literally don't have room to eat a muffin or anything starchy or I'll blow my carb budget. It keeps me eating a bit better because pasta and baked goods aren't really an option, but I still have room for certain things, i.e. a slice of toast in the morning, a tortilla for a wrap, yogurt, veggies, fruit, protein bars, etc. I aim to eat healthy fats.
I also eat a high protein diet. I don't always fulfill my protein goal because it is so high, but I feel better on a daily basis doing high fat/protein and lower carb. I feel good on days where I get close to my goal (I met it today, wahoo), and usually pretty full.
It takes more heat to burn off proteins than it does for carbohydrates. Fewer calories from protein are stored as fat because it is more thermogenic. Carbohydrates, on the other hand, are more often stored as fat because they have a lower thermic value.
Now, I'm not saying you should do one thing or another. You do you! I have a naturally slow metabolism and a body type conducive to weight gain, and this is the diet I've found works for me. I'm not highly active, I'd call myself moderately active, so I can do without the carbs. Idk what you need to do, but I thought I'd share what my approach is.0 -
Interesting problem and thread. My problem is not bread pasta rice etc. Its just sweets. So i quit them. I"m not suggesting you quit bread etc. When i first read about people being addicted to bread and pasta and having your problem, i didn't believe it. But eventually as so many people reported this problem i had to accept it. And their solutions.
For most the solution is to quit and go low carb diets such as paleo or Atkins. Unless its an approach you really want to take, its not likely to work for you though.
But sweets are not bread and pasta. Sweets are something that nutritionally one can live without entirely. Quitting sweets hasn't been hard and i can give you some tips from my sweet problem that might help you with your bread problem.
Firstly though, i strongly suggest you reduce carbs and increase your fats to 40%. The french apparently eat a diet of 40% fat and almost no one eats better than the french. If they can do it and be healthy and slim so can you. You can also afford to increase your protein a bit more if you want. But again, its the carbs you should reduce.
But when you reduce carbs, you can't reduce your vegetables and fruit and in fact you have to eat more of these foods.
You also need to increase fibre. Watch this show: Catalyst - gut reaction on you tube. I am sure watching this show will make you try harder to eat more fibre and that should help you cut down on your white carbs.
Second, eat more lentils and chickpeas and beans as someone else suggested. These are now a major part of my diet. But i'm mostly vegetarian so i have to eat these foods for the protein.
Third, if you cut your carbs to between 100 and 150 net carbs per day, you will still be able to eat some white carbs but you won't eat them so often. Aim most days for 100 not 150. To achieve this you will have to increase the variety of foods you eat and the white carbs will be a treat you can enjoy about once a week and you will eat them in smaller quantities. Make a serve of pasta about 50g and a serve of white bread, just one slice. Rice should be about half a cup of cooked rice. A serve of potatoes is also no more than one medium sized potato. While you are busy eating these other foods which are more nutritious, you will start to get your appetite for carbs under control.
But you will have to apply restraint anyway.
Split your protein into thirds and try to include half at each of three meals a day.
Vegetables protein and fats are the keys to doing this. I also find dairy particularly helpful. But if you are not a big dairy fan like me, then it doesn't matter.
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Dave198lbs wrote: »first....take everything you hear and read about what is the best eating plan or "diet" with a big grain of salt. our bodies are amazing and can take just about everything we throw into them (twinkie iet, grapefruit diet, etc)
second- experiment with different macro ratios and limiting "trigger" foods. Eventually you will find a balance that works. it does take patience and time and maybe even a slight weight gain but there are no hard and fast rules as to what is best for YOU. Make it interesting by tracking everything, journal about your reactions (energy...sleep...satiety, etc) Make it fun...live and learn
I agree about keeping a journal about everything. During my first three weeks of dieting (this time) I kept track of every time I was hungry or had a craving. I noticed a pattern, and realized I needed to reduce sugar and increase protein in order to stave off hunger and cravings. My diet choices became more about managing cravings than losing weight, because ultimately, I've got to master the cravings in order to have a good life.
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brussels sprouts roasted in bacon fat and maple glazed.
I can't stop eating them.0 -
Check the glycemic index of the food that give you problems. The faster you blood sugar spikes the bigger the insulin release the blood sugar crashes and you reach for more simple sugars. This creates a vicious cycle. White bread and processed white rice have very high glycemic index.
Check the list of food that are recommended to eat and avoid on South Beach. I was raised with home made bread and have changed all my recipes to whole wheat.
Limiting my sweets and bread is my biggest struggle.0 -
Ever wonder why these carbs are so addicting? Blame it on dopamine, a hormone and neurotransmitter that affects the brain’s pleasure and reward centers. Stimulating your brain and keep you wanting more of addictive substances like carbs. You have to put in mind that these carbs are simply toxic for your body which makes you more prone to diabetes. So you have to decide if you want to start a clean habit by booting all those carbs off your kitchen shelves.0
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If I have white bread or pasta, I'm going to want more - especially with white pasta. Potatoes and rice - not so much. But the pasta will do me in every time. It lasts all day, driving me crazy. Having more didn't help, either. I'd just keep craving it. The next day, it's gone. So weird.
I finally found a whole grain pasta that I like and it does not leave me wanting more, so YAY that. I had been limiting the pasta and when I did have it, I'd eat it late so I wouldn't have to deal with the cravings. Since having more didn't stop the cravings, I just dealt with them, but it SUCKED.
Other people have this issue, too. It's a thing. You have to find a way to deal with it that works for you.
It isn't an addiction but I have an issue (or can have) with cold pasta. I can eat and eat and not feel full to the point of feeling sick. I have done that once since I started counting calories. I guess that is a binge, I never thought of it like that until right now. Not often like a disorder
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I really love bready cakey things...yet, I'm almost always under on carbs. (Unintentionally). Don't ask me how I just am.
Because of that, I don't worry about binging on them once in a while because it balances out all the times I've been under on them.
Maybe what you need is a once a week day where you go buck wild with it. Carbs for breakfast, carbs for lunch and carbs for dinner.
but try to stay in your calories at the same time...Lol 0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »And another thread of opportunistically obtuse replies. cheers!
its obtuse to point out the fallacy in saying one carb is more addictive than another????0 -
I didn't say that, now did I?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »And another thread of opportunistically obtuse replies. cheers!
its obtuse to point out the fallacy in saying one carb is more addictive than another????
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I'm a carbaholic too, but for me they don't trigger binges. Actually, I feel like binging when I reduce my carbs because then I start to crave them. So, I eat as many as I want throughout the day (my ratio has been about 50/35/15, or about 200g of carbs). If they trigger binges for you, I'd try reducing your intake of them and stick to only unprocessed, whole grain, fruits/veggies, etc. Experiment with it, see how you feel when you stop eating them.0
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hiswaywardgirl wrote: »
Processed starches. Are whole potatoes processed? No.hiswaywardgirl wrote: »
I agree with that as well. Processed carbs or starches trigger binges in a lot of people. Sticking with natural carbs like fruit, potatoes, or sweet potatoes (lower in carbs and more vitamin rich), you're more likely to feel satisfied and stay in control.dopeysmelly wrote: »I used to be like this too. I love baking and make my own bread, muffins etc. My issue was with starches not "carbs" which are in fruits and vegetables (and nuts and seeds and beans and lentils..). It was very hard to stop at just one slice of bread.
I took a different mindset. I started to focus on getting enough protein, fat and fiber first and still staying within my calorie limit. The starches just got kicked out naturally, and I don't have those cravings any more, and still enjoy my homemade baking.
Good distinction. It's definitely starchy foods that wake up the binge monster :laugh: Thanks!
Good thing potatoes are starch free
How does it get out of the ground? Perhaps a processing?
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I agree with others that it's all about experimenting. When I first started trying to lose, I cut my carbs down to 120g per day, from a prior weekly average of about 300g per day (!). [I was so flabbergasted when I did my averages--former vegetarian who loves pasta and sweets here!] I honestly just felt sad and depressed and low energy--did that for a couple of weeks and then bumped up my workouts and carbs both, to try to keep my weight loss on target. That has worked amazingly well--I'm now eating about 140-150 g of carbs per day and feeling very satisfied. I also find that pre-logging my day helps a TON to cut down on the urge to just stuff bread into my face. As does not having bread around, lol.
Also, I went on vacation this past weekend and tried to moderate my carb intake at least a little bit, without totally making myself unable to participate in activities with friends (e.g. cocktails, macarons, BBQ...). I would guess that I probably ate around 200g of carbs each day, maybe even more. The week after, I ended up with my biggest loss since my very first week of tracking! So based on this one anecdote, I'm willing to accept that there might be something to this whole carb-cycling thing, haha.0 -
Dave198lbs wrote: »first....take everything you hear and read about what is the best eating plan or "diet" with a big grain of salt. our bodies are amazing and can take just about everything we throw into them (twinkie iet, grapefruit diet, etc)
second- experiment with different macro ratios and limiting "trigger" foods. Eventually you will find a balance that works. it does take patience and time and maybe even a slight weight gain but there are no hard and fast rules as to what is best for YOU. Make it interesting by tracking everything, journal about your reactions (energy...sleep...satiety, etc) Make it fun...live and learn
I agree about keeping a journal about everything. During my first three weeks of dieting (this time) I kept track of every time I was hungry or had a craving. I noticed a pattern, and realized I needed to reduce sugar and increase protein in order to stave off hunger and cravings. My diet choices became more about managing cravings than losing weight, because ultimately, I've got to master the cravings in order to have a good life.
I don't really have an issue with cravings, but I completely agree with this advice. When I started I also kept a journal and detailed when I was struggling, when I made good choices and not, etc., and it really helped me understand what worked and what didn't and why I was overeating. I figured out how to eat to be satiated on less and also in a way that just seemed to smooth me out (which is going to differ from person to person), and also was able to work on my bigger issue, which is emotional cues for eating.0 -
hiswaywardgirl wrote: »
I agree with that as well. Processed carbs or starches trigger binges in a lot of people. Sticking with natural carbs like fruit, potatoes, or sweet potatoes (lower in carbs and more vitamin rich), you're more likely to feel satisfied and stay in control.dopeysmelly wrote: »I used to be like this too. I love baking and make my own bread, muffins etc. My issue was with starches not "carbs" which are in fruits and vegetables (and nuts and seeds and beans and lentils..). It was very hard to stop at just one slice of bread.
I took a different mindset. I started to focus on getting enough protein, fat and fiber first and still staying within my calorie limit. The starches just got kicked out naturally, and I don't have those cravings any more, and still enjoy my homemade baking.
Good distinction. It's definitely starchy foods that wake up the binge monster :laugh: Thanks!
It wasn't clear you meant "processed starches." In that starches ARE carbs, I read it as (1) processed carbs, and (2) starches also. I think that's the most natural reading.
Beyond that, I highly doubt that the processing is why people can't stop eating things like chips (which I actually don't much like) or French fries (which I love). For example, take fries. I can make them at home (I don't, but I could). If so, they would be about the same level of "processed" as the roasted red potatoes or roasted sweet potatoes I have all the time. My guess is I'd be more tempted to overeat the fries (although I really love the roasted potatoes). Similarly, it's not terribly hard to overeat garlic mashed potatoes with butter on them (ideally alongside some steak). Is this because they are "processed"? No, I suspect it's because of the added fat in all of these cases. It creates that extremely palatable combination.
Similarly, I personally don't overeat bread. (I find it hard to understand how people overeat plain bread, pasta, or rice, other than just through mindless eating 'cause it's there, though they obviously do.) What I do overeat is naan. Especially naan that I can dip in some curry. Again, I'm pretty sure it's the fat/carb combination.
I am NOT saying that why I overeat is the reason everyone overeats. I believe what Kalikel and others said about finding that some carbs provoke cravings or feelings of hunger. What I disagree with is that this means carbs or "processed foods" are addictive, and that this explains most overeating.
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I can see how the way I wrote it was confusing. I agree that fats and carbs/sugars together are highly palatable. It IS easy to overeat potatoes, whether that's because they are carb-heavy or because of the fat/carb combination (probably both). And no, I don't think any of the foods you mentioned are highly processed -- except for naan, which is made of flour, a highly processed grain.lemurcat12 wrote: »hiswaywardgirl wrote: »
I agree with that as well. Processed carbs or starches trigger binges in a lot of people. Sticking with natural carbs like fruit, potatoes, or sweet potatoes (lower in carbs and more vitamin rich), you're more likely to feel satisfied and stay in control.dopeysmelly wrote: »I used to be like this too. I love baking and make my own bread, muffins etc. My issue was with starches not "carbs" which are in fruits and vegetables (and nuts and seeds and beans and lentils..). It was very hard to stop at just one slice of bread.
I took a different mindset. I started to focus on getting enough protein, fat and fiber first and still staying within my calorie limit. The starches just got kicked out naturally, and I don't have those cravings any more, and still enjoy my homemade baking.
Good distinction. It's definitely starchy foods that wake up the binge monster :laugh: Thanks!
It wasn't clear you meant "processed starches." In that starches ARE carbs, I read it as (1) processed carbs, and (2) starches also. I think that's the most natural reading.
Beyond that, I highly doubt that the processing is why people can't stop eating things like chips (which I actually don't much like) or French fries (which I love). For example, take fries. I can make them at home (I don't, but I could). If so, they would be about the same level of "processed" as the roasted red potatoes or roasted sweet potatoes I have all the time. My guess is I'd be more tempted to overeat the fries (although I really love the roasted potatoes). Similarly, it's not terribly hard to overeat garlic mashed potatoes with butter on them (ideally alongside some steak). Is this because they are "processed"? No, I suspect it's because of the added fat in all of these cases. It creates that extremely palatable combination.
Similarly, I personally don't overeat bread. (I find it hard to understand how people overeat plain bread, pasta, or rice, other than just through mindless eating 'cause it's there, though they obviously do.) What I do overeat is naan. Especially naan that I can dip in some curry. Again, I'm pretty sure it's the fat/carb combination.
I am NOT saying that why I overeat is the reason everyone overeats. I believe what Kalikel and others said about finding that some carbs provoke cravings or feelings of hunger. What I disagree with is that this means carbs or "processed foods" are addictive, and that this explains most overeating.
I think the word "addiction" is needlessly fueling a debate. Regardless of the terminology, I think it's clear with the amount of people complaining about overeating processed foods (even you said that naan is harder to stay away from than less-processed potatoes) shows there is something *different* about the foods we crave. They are harder to resist. Most of us crave the same things. Maybe avoiding those foods -- and yes, having self-control -- wouldn't be a bad idea.0 -
I am very limited in my diet for YES, Medical reasons, like everyone likes to throw around here. I can just as easily binge on potato products as gluten free bread, or any other potato chip, rice chip, tortilla chip, french fry, etc. For some of us it is just CARBS. Simple. IDK why those that DON'T have those problems feel the need to chime in on it really. I am not over in the low fat threads telling people they must be wrong..."Do unto others" folks!0
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I lose a bit of control around the "good tasting" carbs, as in things like honey buns, donuts, cinnamon rolls etc. That's my fault, not the carbs fault, and I spent the first 29 years of my life binge eating them until I blimped to 410 lbs.. >_<
What has worked for me so far is setting my macros to 30C/30F/40P. I use the TDEE method, eat 2000 cals a day and my carb intake is set at 150. In the beginning I had to really limit myself..I got my carbs from starchy vegetables mostly and every once in awhile a donut or pasta. The key for me was working on my state of mind about food, all while limiting the cravings by limiting the intake of them. After I felt like I had really revamped my thinking I re-introduced things that I loved and will -never- give up. (Had porkchops with a side of donuts for dinner tonight). It's a long process, but I figure I spent three decades in a bad relationship with food..for all I know it'll take three more decades to fix that. But I definitely got a good head start by finding what works for me, experimenting with my macros, and slowly building up my self control. 87 lbs down since January, three 5k's ran so far, and a buttload of self esteem and discipline I never thought I had in me. Good luck and keep on keepin' on.
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hiswaywardgirl wrote: »
I can see how the way I wrote it was confusing. I agree that fats and carbs/sugars together are highly palatable. It IS easy to overeat potatoes, whether that's because they are carb-heavy or because of the fat/carb combination (probably both). And no, I don't think any of the foods you mentioned are highly processed -- except for naan, which is made of flour, a highly processed grain.lemurcat12 wrote: »hiswaywardgirl wrote: »
I agree with that as well. Processed carbs or starches trigger binges in a lot of people. Sticking with natural carbs like fruit, potatoes, or sweet potatoes (lower in carbs and more vitamin rich), you're more likely to feel satisfied and stay in control.dopeysmelly wrote: »I used to be like this too. I love baking and make my own bread, muffins etc. My issue was with starches not "carbs" which are in fruits and vegetables (and nuts and seeds and beans and lentils..). It was very hard to stop at just one slice of bread.
I took a different mindset. I started to focus on getting enough protein, fat and fiber first and still staying within my calorie limit. The starches just got kicked out naturally, and I don't have those cravings any more, and still enjoy my homemade baking.
Good distinction. It's definitely starchy foods that wake up the binge monster :laugh: Thanks!
It wasn't clear you meant "processed starches." In that starches ARE carbs, I read it as (1) processed carbs, and (2) starches also. I think that's the most natural reading.
Beyond that, I highly doubt that the processing is why people can't stop eating things like chips (which I actually don't much like) or French fries (which I love). For example, take fries. I can make them at home (I don't, but I could). If so, they would be about the same level of "processed" as the roasted red potatoes or roasted sweet potatoes I have all the time. My guess is I'd be more tempted to overeat the fries (although I really love the roasted potatoes). Similarly, it's not terribly hard to overeat garlic mashed potatoes with butter on them (ideally alongside some steak). Is this because they are "processed"? No, I suspect it's because of the added fat in all of these cases. It creates that extremely palatable combination.
Similarly, I personally don't overeat bread. (I find it hard to understand how people overeat plain bread, pasta, or rice, other than just through mindless eating 'cause it's there, though they obviously do.) What I do overeat is naan. Especially naan that I can dip in some curry. Again, I'm pretty sure it's the fat/carb combination.
I am NOT saying that why I overeat is the reason everyone overeats. I believe what Kalikel and others said about finding that some carbs provoke cravings or feelings of hunger. What I disagree with is that this means carbs or "processed foods" are addictive, and that this explains most overeating.
I think the word "addiction" is needlessly fueling a debate. Regardless of the terminology, I think it's clear with the amount of people complaining about overeating processed foods (even you said that naan is harder to stay away from than less-processed potatoes) shows there is something *different* about the foods we crave. They are harder to resist. Most of us crave the same things. Maybe avoiding those foods -- and yes, having self-control -- wouldn't be a bad idea.
Agree that addiction is a bad word to use and that it derails what could be a more productive discussion, but you seem to have misread my post. My comment about naan was in comparison with bread, pasta, and rice in general. In that the latter (all processed, two of the three involving flour, we can even specify white) are not stuff I struggle with overeating, I'm not sure why you think this supports the processed theory. It's that the naan has some fat and is typically dipped in curry (more fat). It's like people want so much for it to be processed food they ignore everything else.
Also, this ideas that the broad category of processed food can be generalized about is bizarre.
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I have to pick my carbs carefully, or the same thing happens. Oatmeal, potatoes, rice are fine. I only have whole grain pasta and it's fine too (but I have more than one serving, typically 1.5). Bread, not so much.0
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Yes. Addiction IS a bad word to use. But to the person who struggles with keeping their hands off those foods, it seems like an addiction to them. I binged chocolate and Doritos and chips like mad. Hid my binges, did them in secret and tried to hide the evidence of the food I'd just annihilated. I was ashamed, and I wanted to stop it, but I craved the stuff so bad, to the point of anxiety and anger if I did not have it. I would plan to stop by a store while out and get more and not tell my hubs, using my spare cash to get it so it wouldn't show up on the debit card. My kids' candy wasn't safe so my husband hid it in the basement. Pretty pathetic.
What it IS for sure is an unhealthy relationship with certain foods that you need to heal. I had a hard time with starchy carbs and high fructose corn syrup and white sugar. So we broke up. I haven't touched them once in 5 months. Am I never having them again? Maybe not or maybe I will. I can prepare them for others now without touching them. I don't want them much any more. I told myself the binges had to stop, stayed away from the trigger foods, refused to emotionally eat, and I made it happen. People have to want it bad enough to sacrifice. Is it easy? No. But you do have the power within yourself. Just make it happen.
No one else can do it for you. Make limits for yourself and stick to them. Make that choice every meal or snack. You put food in your mouth with your own hand. This sounds heartless, but it's the only way. You screw up? Well, own it and get right back to business.
As far as processed food goes...
If you look at it like I do, just about everything is processed, messed with or handled in some way, one way or another. It would be better to distinguish between whole foods and prepackaged foods or factory generated foods, if you want to get involved in semantics. Or just friggin' eat healthy FOR YOU and ignore everyone else.
I don't care how other people eat. It's not all about me. I do me; you do you, whatever that is. Judge someone's eating choices? I ain't got time fo' that. I have my hands full dealing with my own.0 -
IFor some of us it is just CARBS. Simple. IDK why those that DON'T have those problems feel the need to chime in on it really. I am not over in the low fat threads telling people they must be wrong..."Do unto others" folks!
I don't think anyone here does low fat, but the reason the rest of us are here, probably, is because we thought we could helpfully address the OP's question. In that the OP clarified that he/she does not have an issue with carbs in general, but specific trigger foods, I'm not sure why you think you are uniquely entitled to be here.0 -
baconslave wrote: »
Yes. Addiction IS a bad word to use. But to the person who struggles with keeping their hands off those foods, it seems like an addiction to them.
Yeah, I think using the term "addiction" isn't helpful or accurate for lots of reasons, but I do think that if people feel out of control (the trigger food idea) or struggle with binging (and bad as I was I'm grateful my issue was just overeating, not binging) that lots of times some of the same strategies that apply to addiction can apply here. One of those might be not eating the food (at least for a time) and not having it in the house, but there are lots of others too, that focus on the reasons one is particularly susceptible at particular times (hungry, angry, lonely, tired) or the way the mind makes connections so that you expect to eat whatever at particular times or in particular states of mind, for habitual reasons.
I also think stuff like emotional eating and secret eating are related and as with addictive behavior being mindful and owning it by being honest and open about it can really help. Getting past the cycle of shame and indulging to forget the shame for a time.No one else can do it for you. Make limits for yourself and stick to them. Make that choice every meal or snack. You put food in your mouth with your own hand. This sounds heartless, but it's the only way. You screw up? Well, own it and get right back to business.
Yep, good advice. Whatever you call it, that's what you have to do.
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Then I did misread your post.lemurcat12 wrote: »hiswaywardgirl wrote: »
I can see how the way I wrote it was confusing. I agree that fats and carbs/sugars together are highly palatable. It IS easy to overeat potatoes, whether that's because they are carb-heavy or because of the fat/carb combination (probably both). And no, I don't think any of the foods you mentioned are highly processed -- except for naan, which is made of flour, a highly processed grain.lemurcat12 wrote: »hiswaywardgirl wrote: »
I agree with that as well. Processed carbs or starches trigger binges in a lot of people. Sticking with natural carbs like fruit, potatoes, or sweet potatoes (lower in carbs and more vitamin rich), you're more likely to feel satisfied and stay in control.dopeysmelly wrote: »I used to be like this too. I love baking and make my own bread, muffins etc. My issue was with starches not "carbs" which are in fruits and vegetables (and nuts and seeds and beans and lentils..). It was very hard to stop at just one slice of bread.
I took a different mindset. I started to focus on getting enough protein, fat and fiber first and still staying within my calorie limit. The starches just got kicked out naturally, and I don't have those cravings any more, and still enjoy my homemade baking.
Good distinction. It's definitely starchy foods that wake up the binge monster :laugh: Thanks!
It wasn't clear you meant "processed starches." In that starches ARE carbs, I read it as (1) processed carbs, and (2) starches also. I think that's the most natural reading.
Beyond that, I highly doubt that the processing is why people can't stop eating things like chips (which I actually don't much like) or French fries (which I love). For example, take fries. I can make them at home (I don't, but I could). If so, they would be about the same level of "processed" as the roasted red potatoes or roasted sweet potatoes I have all the time. My guess is I'd be more tempted to overeat the fries (although I really love the roasted potatoes). Similarly, it's not terribly hard to overeat garlic mashed potatoes with butter on them (ideally alongside some steak). Is this because they are "processed"? No, I suspect it's because of the added fat in all of these cases. It creates that extremely palatable combination.
Similarly, I personally don't overeat bread. (I find it hard to understand how people overeat plain bread, pasta, or rice, other than just through mindless eating 'cause it's there, though they obviously do.) What I do overeat is naan. Especially naan that I can dip in some curry. Again, I'm pretty sure it's the fat/carb combination.
I am NOT saying that why I overeat is the reason everyone overeats. I believe what Kalikel and others said about finding that some carbs provoke cravings or feelings of hunger. What I disagree with is that this means carbs or "processed foods" are addictive, and that this explains most overeating.
I think the word "addiction" is needlessly fueling a debate. Regardless of the terminology, I think it's clear with the amount of people complaining about overeating processed foods (even you said that naan is harder to stay away from than less-processed potatoes) shows there is something *different* about the foods we crave. They are harder to resist. Most of us crave the same things. Maybe avoiding those foods -- and yes, having self-control -- wouldn't be a bad idea.
Agree that addiction is a bad word to use and that it derails what could be a more productive discussion, but you seem to have misread my post. My comment about naan was in comparison with bread, pasta, and rice in general. In that the latter (all processed, two of the three involving flour, we can even specify white) are not stuff I struggle with overeating, I'm not sure why you think this supports the processed theory. It's that the naan has some fat and is typically dipped in curry (more fat). It's like people want so much for it to be processed food they ignore everything else.
Also, this ideas that the broad category of processed food can be generalized about is bizarre.
I don't see why the word "processed" is bizarre. Food in its whole form like fruit, vegetables, and meat do not go through nearly as much processing as say, a Lean Cuisine frozen meal or a slice of bread. It's a simple concept and it is well established that eating a diet of whole, unprocessed foods is inherently good for you. Whatever terminology you want to use, that is a basic nutritional fact.0 -
This is along the lines of what I've been through and why I would say sugar and carb-rich foods are "addicting." It is difficult for some of us to stop eating them.baconslave wrote: »Yes. Addiction IS a bad word to use. But to the person who struggles with keeping their hands off those foods, it seems like an addiction to them.
Here's my experience. I used to be a carb-loving vegetarian who rarely ate fat or protein. I was always hungry and snacking on carbs, because I didn't pay attention to macronutrients -- I just didn't want to eat meat. I would feel hungry, irritable, and tired if I didn't eat every couple of hours. I remember being at a work meeting and feeling terrible... just completely exhausted and unable to focus at all. Someone had brought donuts, so I ate one, and immediately felt "alive" again, able to look around, pay attention, and listen to what was going on. I had sugar and carb binges every day after work because the sugar made me feel better. I just felt *terrible* without it.
Then I started eating meat again -- and consciously made huge increases in my fat & protein intake -- and all the insane urges to binge on sugar & carbs went away. So I do think carbs are the devil. Not everyone has felt "out of control" with those foods, but this is where I'm coming from.
Everyone has different experiences. If you haven't been there, it's probably difficult to understand. I don't get the fat/carb combination thing, and I would actually prefer to eat fats with carbs for health reasons because it leaves your blood sugar more stable than carbs alone. I am only continuing to post because I think it's unfair to look down on a diet of traditionally healthy foods (for the life of me I don't get why preferring less-processed food is something to argue about) and limiting carbs/sugar.0 -
I think your carb issues may actually be a simple carb issue -- simple carbs that shoot up your blood sugar levels quickly like potato chips and bread. Try replacing with complex carbs. it may not induce the carb death spiral!0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »
Yes. Addiction IS a bad word to use. But to the person who struggles with keeping their hands off those foods, it seems like an addiction to them.
Yeah, I think using the term "addiction" isn't helpful or accurate for lots of reasons, but I do think that if people feel out of control (the trigger food idea) or struggle with binging (and bad as I was I'm grateful my issue was just overeating, not binging) that lots of times some of the same strategies that apply to addiction can apply here. One of those might be not eating the food (at least for a time) and not having it in the house, but there are lots of others too, that focus on the reasons one is particularly susceptible at particular times (hungry, angry, lonely, tired) or the way the mind makes connections so that you expect to eat whatever at particular times or in particular states of mind, for habitual reasons.
I also think stuff like emotional eating and secret eating are related and as with addictive behavior being mindful and owning it by being honest and open about it can really help. Getting past the cycle of shame and indulging to forget the shame for a time.No one else can do it for you. Make limits for yourself and stick to them. Make that choice every meal or snack. You put food in your mouth with your own hand. This sounds heartless, but it's the only way. You screw up? Well, own it and get right back to business.
Yep, good advice. Whatever you call it, that's what you have to do.
Right. Not eating any is what works for me. As well as dogged determination that I developed after seeing my mother hospitalized for months because of diabetes. But that isn't the only way. People need to get mindful in the moment they are feeling the urge to go nuts on a food. What is going on with you at that moment? And how can you deter the habitual result. Is it hunger? Make a good food choice and eat. Angry, sad or bored? Maybe distract yourself with something else you enjoy instead. Read, take a walk, piddle on the internet, talk to a friend... And get on with your day. If you refuse to give the food, or urge to eat it, power, it won't control you. Eventually these new habits will replace the old with consistent use.0 -
I can't completely cut them out, because I know that'll lead to me binge eating them. I've been doing better when I lowered my portions of them but still have them. I skip certain things, but I couldn't live without potatoes or pasta or bread. I cut them out once, and then completely fell off the wagon and went wayyyyy overboard. Lately it's been better. Once you start controlling your portions and limiting how often you have them, it gets easier. I used to eat pasta 5-6 days a week. Now I'm down to once or twice, and half the portion. I replace some of it with other foods (broccoli and corn are two of my favorites). I also make sure that if I'm going to have a carb-heavy meal, it's before a workout so that I use the carbs more effectively.0
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hiswaywardgirl wrote: »I don't see why the word "processed" is bizarre. Food in its whole form like fruit, vegetables, and meat do not go through nearly as much processing as say, a Lean Cuisine frozen meal or a slice of bread. It's a simple concept and it is well established that eating a diet of whole, unprocessed foods is inherently good for you. Whatever terminology you want to use, that is a basic nutritional fact.
It's bizarre to generalize about processed foods, because (like whole foods) it's such a diverse category that there's essentially nothing they all share in common.
For example, even ignoring the fact that anything in the supermarket (and any meat sold commercially at all) is in some sense processed, not to mention any produce out of season, processed foods include boneless, skinless chicken breast, ground beef, those Healthy Choice meals that I think Dean Ornish was involved with at one point (if I'm wrong about the brand, pick some other low sodium, low fat, generally Ornish approved type frozen meal), some organic made from whole foods type packaged meal you'd find at WF, Ezekial bread, a package of just beans and rice plus spices to make into a side or meal, frozen veggies, a bag of spinach or kale, dried pasta, a Marie Callendar pot pie, Twinkies, a million different types of yogurt, smoked salmon, frozen fish, sausages and bacon, Quest bars, baby-cut carrots, everything from organic steel cut oats to instant oatmeal, and on and on. And based on your own definition, everything made with flour or sugar, no matter where it's made. So grandma's homemade pasta with meat sauce and lots of veggies, processed.
Maybe some people react to all of these foods identically because they are all "processed," but I find that extremely hard to believe. Being "processed" doesn't make a food more prone to being overeaten or more likely to be a trigger. As I said above, I could easily overeat buttery mashed potatoes with some steak and mushrooms. I am not going to overeat some supermarket bread. It's just not appealing to me at all, and to a certain extent we are talking about taste preferences--what is hard for you to resist. (However, this doesn't mean that I stopped eating the mashed potatoes and eat the bread. I don't waste calories on foods that don't appeal to me that much and I simply make sure I eat in moderation.)
I agree that the overall diet may be more or less satiating and for many people that means maybe less emphasis on carbs (although people differ)--I said that in the first post--but the idea that it means processed vs. not ignores how varied these categories is.
Also, maybe some think that they are all less healthy and all "non-processed" foods are by definition more healthy, but that seems to me a silly belief. I tend to prefer eating mostly whole foods, but what's healthy depends on the overall diet and what a particular food adds. As I said before, it's quite reasonable for people to choose to include many processed foods FOR health reasons, as well as for taste (and many, like products made with flour and dairy and sausages are long-standing foods important in many cultures, also).
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I still don't see the problem. On a spectrum of unprocessed to highly processed foods, it's easy to see which are better for you. It's better to look for the food near the unprocessed end of the spectrum. I eat sausage that has a short ingredients list with fewer preservatives and less processed ingredients, because it's healthier than something with 75 ingredients that I can't pronounce.lemurcat12 wrote: »hiswaywardgirl wrote: »I don't see why the word "processed" is bizarre. Food in its whole form like fruit, vegetables, and meat do not go through nearly as much processing as say, a Lean Cuisine frozen meal or a slice of bread. It's a simple concept and it is well established that eating a diet of whole, unprocessed foods is inherently good for you. Whatever terminology you want to use, that is a basic nutritional fact.
It's bizarre to generalize about processed foods, because (like whole foods) it's such a diverse category that there's essentially nothing they all share in common.
For example, even ignoring the fact that anything in the supermarket (and any meat sold commercially at all) is in some sense processed, not to mention any produce out of season, processed foods include boneless, skinless chicken breast, ground beef, those Healthy Choice meals that I think Dean Ornish was involved with at one point (if I'm wrong about the brand, pick some other low sodium, low fat, generally Ornish approved type frozen meal), some organic made from whole foods type packaged meal you'd find at WF, Ezekial bread, a package of just beans and rice plus spices to make into a side or meal, frozen veggies, a bag of spinach or kale, dried pasta, a Marie Callendar pot pie, Twinkies, a million different types of yogurt, smoked salmon, frozen fish, sausages and bacon, Quest bars, baby-cut carrots, everything from organic steel cut oats to instant oatmeal, and on and on. And based on your own definition, everything made with flour or sugar, no matter where it's made. So grandma's homemade pasta with meat sauce and lots of veggies, processed.
Maybe some people react to all of these foods identically because they are all "processed," but I find that extremely hard to believe. Being "processed" doesn't make a food more prone to being overeaten or more likely to be a trigger. As I said above, I could easily overeat buttery mashed potatoes with some steak and mushrooms. I am not going to overeat some supermarket bread. It's just not appealing to me at all, and to a certain extent we are talking about taste preferences--what is hard for you to resist. (However, this doesn't mean that I stopped eating the mashed potatoes and eat the bread. I don't waste calories on foods that don't appeal to me that much and I simply make sure I eat in moderation.)
I agree that the overall diet may be more or less satiating and for many people that means maybe less emphasis on carbs (although people differ)--I said that in the first post--but the idea that it means processed vs. not ignores how varied these categories is.
Also, maybe some think that they are all less healthy and all "non-processed" foods are by definition more healthy, but that seems to me a silly belief. I tend to prefer eating mostly whole foods, but what's healthy depends on the overall diet and what a particular food adds. As I said before, it's quite reasonable for people to choose to include many processed foods FOR health reasons, as well as for taste (and many, like products made with flour and dairy and sausages are long-standing foods important in many cultures, also).0
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