BMR, Fitbit, MFP, Hunger, Plateaus, and FRUSTRATION!
andymcclure
Posts: 40 Member
OK, I'm just throwing this out there, and I would welcome any suggestions that anyone might have. I'm kinda losing my mind, and with the holidays coming up, I'm worried I could really blow it.
First, a brief history of me: I've been overweight/obese most of my life. I quit smoking about ten years ago and really packed on some weight. Around the same time, I also had surgery to repair a ten-year-old hernia, and started having some serious back problems due to a couple of bad disks. About five years ago, I got really serious about losing some weight.
To start, I tried to do it on my own: eat a little better, get a little more exercise. Lost a few pounds but wasn't disciplined enough to keep it consistent. I joined Weight Watchers, and had decent success for a while. Then I plateaued for a while. I got more and more aggressive, cutting back more and more points, but still couldn't lose any more weight.
[Overall, my weight loss has been pretty consistent: Lose about 6 pounds, then plateau for about 3 months. Repeat. I'm averaging about 1/4 pound a week of weight loss over 5 years.]
So, I switched to MFP. I tried to let MFP calculate my calories for me (currently 1340 to lose 2 pounds a week). Way too much, I was gaining weight again. So, I cut back and I cut back. I added a Fitbit to try to get a more accurate sense of how many calories I "earned" back each day. Now, I'm at 800 calories/day plus whatever I earn from Fitbit. I try really hard to leave at least a handful of calories left at the end of the day. I don't log any additional exercise or activity outside of what the Fitbit registers.
Now, that's still not low enough. My weight is starting to creep up again. Yes, I've had a couple days here and there where I've gone over my calories. But, here's the thing:
I'm going over my calories estimates based on losing two pounds a week. I should be able to go over that estimate by about 1000 calories a day and hold even. Instead, I'm gaining weight.
I'm so frustrated I can't stand it. I'm hungry. My stomach hurts, because I'm hungry. I have trouble sleeping at night, because I'm hungry. I'm trying to get more exercise, but it's really hard because I'm hungry and I'm tired. (Not to mention the bad back, arthritic knees, and bursitis.)
My diet is pretty healthy, overall. I eat a lot of vegetables and legumes. I eat very little meat. I try to keep the carbs under control. I've almost completely cut out dairy, as I find I gain the most weight when I eat cheese.
I really don't know what to do. I'm a 43-year-old male, 6' 1", 204 pounds. I'm at 800 calories a day, plus another 700–900 from my Fitbit. I honestly don't think I can cut my calories any lower without having serious side effects.
Every doctor I've seen (and that's quite a few doctors!) just tells me to eat less, exercise more, try harder.
From what I can read, and what I've gotten from talking to others, I'm probably eating too few calories. At my last check-up, my doctor ran a couple of tests to see if I was "technically" starving, which I was not. I'm terrified to experiment with more calories, because if it doesn't go well, I could easily set myself back 6 months.
So, yeah, this got kind of long. Sorry about that. Just needed to get it out there. I'd really love to hear any suggestions, especially from anyone who may have gone through something similar. Thanks for listening.
First, a brief history of me: I've been overweight/obese most of my life. I quit smoking about ten years ago and really packed on some weight. Around the same time, I also had surgery to repair a ten-year-old hernia, and started having some serious back problems due to a couple of bad disks. About five years ago, I got really serious about losing some weight.
To start, I tried to do it on my own: eat a little better, get a little more exercise. Lost a few pounds but wasn't disciplined enough to keep it consistent. I joined Weight Watchers, and had decent success for a while. Then I plateaued for a while. I got more and more aggressive, cutting back more and more points, but still couldn't lose any more weight.
[Overall, my weight loss has been pretty consistent: Lose about 6 pounds, then plateau for about 3 months. Repeat. I'm averaging about 1/4 pound a week of weight loss over 5 years.]
So, I switched to MFP. I tried to let MFP calculate my calories for me (currently 1340 to lose 2 pounds a week). Way too much, I was gaining weight again. So, I cut back and I cut back. I added a Fitbit to try to get a more accurate sense of how many calories I "earned" back each day. Now, I'm at 800 calories/day plus whatever I earn from Fitbit. I try really hard to leave at least a handful of calories left at the end of the day. I don't log any additional exercise or activity outside of what the Fitbit registers.
Now, that's still not low enough. My weight is starting to creep up again. Yes, I've had a couple days here and there where I've gone over my calories. But, here's the thing:
I'm going over my calories estimates based on losing two pounds a week. I should be able to go over that estimate by about 1000 calories a day and hold even. Instead, I'm gaining weight.
I'm so frustrated I can't stand it. I'm hungry. My stomach hurts, because I'm hungry. I have trouble sleeping at night, because I'm hungry. I'm trying to get more exercise, but it's really hard because I'm hungry and I'm tired. (Not to mention the bad back, arthritic knees, and bursitis.)
My diet is pretty healthy, overall. I eat a lot of vegetables and legumes. I eat very little meat. I try to keep the carbs under control. I've almost completely cut out dairy, as I find I gain the most weight when I eat cheese.
I really don't know what to do. I'm a 43-year-old male, 6' 1", 204 pounds. I'm at 800 calories a day, plus another 700–900 from my Fitbit. I honestly don't think I can cut my calories any lower without having serious side effects.
Every doctor I've seen (and that's quite a few doctors!) just tells me to eat less, exercise more, try harder.
From what I can read, and what I've gotten from talking to others, I'm probably eating too few calories. At my last check-up, my doctor ran a couple of tests to see if I was "technically" starving, which I was not. I'm terrified to experiment with more calories, because if it doesn't go well, I could easily set myself back 6 months.
So, yeah, this got kind of long. Sorry about that. Just needed to get it out there. I'd really love to hear any suggestions, especially from anyone who may have gone through something similar. Thanks for listening.
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Replies
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Your diet is high in carbs and low in fat. I can see you would be hungry on that. Try heavy whipping cream with peppermint essence in your breakfast coffee rather than the coffeemate sweetened margarine.
Why have you cut down on meat ? Protein is usually beneficial for weight loss, within reason.-1 -
NO NO NO NO... OP you are making yourself suffer unnecessarily!! You're doing the opposite of what you need to do. Stop trying to cut anymore calories. You're not losing weight because your body is holding on to the little nutrition you're giving it and it will not let it go. Please read the info on this page, it'll show you how you don't need to starve yourself to lose weight.
community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/3817-eat-more-2-weigh-less0 -
Ditto--I would include more protein and healthy fat. They help keep you fuller longer and the protein provides important nutrients to sustain muscle tear down/build up from exercise.
Protein doesn't have to be red meat. Could be chicken, seafood or soy. Or protein powder.0 -
Lasmartchika wrote: »NO NO NO NO... OP you are making yourself suffer unnecessarily!! You're doing the opposite of what you need to do. Stop trying to cut anymore calories. You're not losing weight because your body is holding on to the little nutrition you're giving it and it will not let it go. Please read the info on this page, it'll show you how you don't need to starve yourself to lose weight.
community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/3817-eat-more-2-weigh-lessDitto--I would include more protein and healthy fat. They help keep you fuller longer and the protein provides important nutrients to sustain muscle tear down/build up from exercise.
Protein doesn't have to be red meat. Could be chicken, seafood or soy. Or protein powder.
I agree with those two above!! The default setting of MFP is 50% carbs, 30% fat and 20% protein. Try 50% protein, 30% carbs and 20% fat for a few weeks and see how that goes. Then, you can adjust to what seems to be working best for you (because let's be honest, 50% protein is not always easy!!!)0 -
Are you doing Weight Watchers in person or online? I used it online and lost 45 lbs.. but that was 7 years ago and earlier this year I started to gain it back. From what I have heard going in person offers more advice than Weight Watchers online. Since the doctors you have talked to did not help, maybe it is time to go to a registered dietitian/nutritionist. The title may vary depending upon where you live but this is sort of their specialty. Also, I got started on MyFitnessPal by going to free personal training sessions offered when I signed up at my local fitness center (Aspen in upstate NY). One last thing, I have heard commercials on TV and radio in my area for weight loss support groups at a local hospital.
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On top of what everyone else has said, without sufficient protein, you could be losing the muscle you had because not enough protein to upkeep it. So rapid lean muscle loss, your resting caloric burn becomes less. You cut out meats, and don't get enough protein, you begin your downward cycle again with lean muscle mass.
Try drinking lots of water and eat at least 0.5g per lb of lean muscle mass you have (probably you'll want more at this point up to 1g per 1lb). Start strength training as well as cardio in working out (or just strength training for now). You'll start feeling fuller sooner with the protein than carbs. Your blood sugar plays havoc on your hunger signals to the brain.0 -
I agree and second the others. Also be sure to be tracking your measurements because sometimes weight increase is muscle and not just fat. The scale shouldn't be your end all be all in terms of whether you're on track or not. I know that's a hard one to accept. Don't give up, keep fighting!!0
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Thanks so much for the input, everyone.
The flavored creamers are a known evil. That's a bad habit I picked up while experimenting with cutting dairy. They need to go away, and they will. For carbs in general, I like to think that the carbs from say, carrots, are less of an issue than carbs from a loaf of white bread. Maybe I'm deluding myself, but I can't shake the feeling that vegetables are still healthy, even if they bump up my carb count.
Cutting the meat has been sort of a two-pronged effort for me. One, it's a health issue, as generally meat is not considered a terribly healthy option. Two, it's a practical function of counting calories. A little bit of beef or pork can burn a lot of my calories for the day. I do like turkey a lot, which tends to have a pretty good protein/calorie ratio.
Lasmartchika, thank you for that info. I've read similar info before, but I'd like to dig deeper, as I definitely believe that's part of my problem.0 -
Also, it's funny... I have very little confidence in most of the doctors I've seen, yet I can't stop assuming that they must know SOMETHING. I've had so many doctors simply tell me eat less eat less eat less, I just can't shake that thought process.0
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Just my opinion but I think you should make a range for cals instead of a set number and use the range on days when your hungry...something along the lines of 1500-2000 keep working out as you do decrease the carbs ..increase the protein and veggies ..I will probably be bashed for this but with using the range I would ditch eating back the workout cals but that's just me. What could it hurt to try it for 3-4 weeks and see how it goes? The good thing about MFP is you can customize it somewhat to work for you..Good luck.0
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I went to a couple of meetings with a free trial, but I ended up joining the online program. (Going to meetings with any regularity just doesn't fit my lifestyle.) I am not currently a member; I left a few months ago. It's too expensive for me to see so little results.aprilang3l wrote: »Are you doing Weight Watchers in person or online?
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andymcclure wrote: »ONow, I'm at 800 calories/day plus whatever I earn from Fitbit.
That would literally be a concentration-camp level of intake. Either your logging is completely broken or you are getting hallucinatory numbers from your FitBit - probably both.
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There is no way in hell you should be eating only 800 calories a day, this is less than a toddler eats per day. I calculated your BMR using an IIFYM calculator and it is 1876 kcals not including exercise. Eat more a lot more, including meat which is healthy contrary to popular belief! You will find that you feel better and are able to exercise more intensely. IF you are interested in coaching check out Precision Nutrition, Eat The Food, or many of the other resources online. Good luck and please feed yourself, it is critical to your overall health and well being!0
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There is no way in hell you should be eating only 800 calories a day, this is less than a toddler eats per day. I calculated your BMR using an IIFYM calculator and it is 1876 kcals not including exercise. Eat more a lot more, including meat which is healthy contrary to popular belief! You will find that you feel better and are able to exercise more intensely. IF you are interested in coaching check out Precision Nutrition, Eat The Food, or many of the other resources online. Good luck and please feed yourself, it is critical to your overall health and well being!
He needs to trust the process, which he's not there yet... He'd rather be eating 800 calories in the meantime he finds more info about that. And listening to the doctors who don't know nothing apparently. OP, PLEASE EAT!! The process works. If you've read MORE info about it already, it means it works. If there was scarce information about it, then yes, I'd give you the benefit of the doubt of why you want to keep researching. You already said others have told you that you're not eating enough. Those people have gone through the process and have proved it works. Do not be scared of food. I've lost weight by eating more, not by cutting calories. And I'm still going through the process, I'm not at goal yet... but I've seen it work with me.0 -
Just to clarify, 800 is my starting point each day. I'm getting another 700–900 each day "earned" from activity, for a total 0f 1500–1700.
Also, just for the record, I'm pretty good about logging things. I use measuring cups, spoons, and a scale to monitor portion sizes. Obviously, there are times I need to estimate, so the numbers aren't perfect, but they should be pretty accurate.0 -
Have you gone in for metabolic testing? If you are logging accurately it isn't the carbs, flavored creamers, or anything else...chances are that your very low daily intake has slowed your metabolism down quite a bit.
Eating carrots instead of bread isn't your problem - it's that you aren't eating enough. If you don't want to do testing or can't, just eat at maintenance for a couple of weeks and start over. You'll gain a few pounds to start but it will put you back in the right direction....
I'm about the same size as you and 33 years old, and I eat about 2800 a day at maintenance (lift heavy 3x week, basketball 1 day a week, other active about 30-45 min/week). You are starving yourself....forget everything else.0 -
And just for the record, I lost about 80 lbs in 2012 on a very low calorie diet (about 1500-1800, just like you), got down to 180 of pure flab, and I'm now at 200 with a mix of flab and muscle. I have the weight pretty close to the right spot but I don't look good ("skinny-fat") due to my lack of weight training and over-restriction of calories on the way down.
I've been stuck in neutral for about a year, getting stronger, but struggling to get rid of the fat as a result....it's a slow process of digging out. Do yourself a favor and reconsider your approach or even when you get to the weight you want you are not going to be happy with how you look.0 -
There is no way in hell you should be eating only 800 calories a day, this is less than a toddler eats per day. I calculated your BMR using an IIFYM calculator and it is 1876 kcals not including exercise. Eat more a lot more, including meat which is healthy contrary to popular belief! You will find that you feel better and are able to exercise more intensely. IF you are interested in coaching check out Precision Nutrition, Eat The Food, or many of the other resources online. Good luck and please feed yourself, it is critical to your overall health and well being!
Totally agree! It is absolutely unacceptable to eat less than BMR, even one has no exercises in a particular day.
If your BMR is ~1850, your daily calories expenditure at least 1850*1.2=2220 kcal. That amount of calories your body burn every single day even if you do nothing except usual office work. Assuming your Fitbit gives you correct calories (but i doubt), you should eat ~3000 kcal every day to maintain your weight.
However you want to loose weight, then you your mats the following:
You need to have 15% daily deficit (2 pounds a week to loose way too much), so you should eat 2220*0.85 ~ 1850-1900 kcal a day if you don't do any exercises and 2550-2600 kcal a day if you spend extra 700 kcal a day for extra activities.
I know these numbers look for you crazy but it works. I eat 3500 kcal a day and spend approx extra 1500-1800 kcal a day (i commute 20 km one way by bicycle) and burn my fat.
And yes, you need to eat more protein and carbs. Protein is a bricks for muscles and carbs are fuel for them.andymcclure wrote: »Also, just for the record, I'm pretty good about logging things. I use measuring cups, spoons, and a scale to monitor portion sizes. Obviously, there are times I need to estimate, so the numbers aren't perfect, but they should be pretty accurate.
And measuring food by spoons and cups doesn't give you good accuracy. Only kitchen scales could give you proper accuracy.
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Personally, I find measuring spoons/cups to be fine for some things (mostly liquids). The scale is, of course, preferred in most situations.0
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Well, I think this discussion has been helpful for me. I'm going to try upping my calories, and make a real effort to monitor the carbs vs. protein. (I don't know if I can hit 50% protein, but I suppose it's worth a shot.)
Here's a question, for those of you who have had good results coming off a period of undernourishment like this:
Is it better to add calories gradually or all at once? If gradually, how gradually?
Thanks again to everyone who has added their thoughts.0 -
andymcclure wrote: »Personally, I find measuring spoons/cups to be fine for some things (mostly liquids). The scale is, of course, preferred in most situations.
Use the scale for all situations - not just 'most'. Measuring spoons and cups can pack a lot of food in them.
For example...according to the package of my sour cream, 2 tablespoons weighs 30 grams and has 25 calories. But guess what? When I put only 1 tablespoon on the food scale it weighed 28 grams. So that's why scales are important for everything. It's annoying - yes - but try it for just a week and you'll see what I'm talking about.
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Perhaps you will not be able to eat all calories because your stomach shrink. Try to add food gradually, let say 200-300 cal a week.
Just remember, first weeks your weight will go up. It's normal. Continue this way at least 4 weeks and only after that period you will see any progress.
Don't worry! All of us were gaining fat the whole life and 4 weeks is nothing! Just keep going! You are on a way for the rest of your life! You will never stop! So just keep calm and wait and you will be awarded!
To motivate you I show my "before and after". "After" a year ago, but since then I maintain my weight.
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I think the doctors you are seeing are misinformed. They are giving out generic advice when you are right; you can't cut any more calories. You need to be referred to a specialist or a dietitian. I agree with others that your protein intake is too low. Sure, the calories come in a small package, but the protein uptake is much slower and will reduce your hunger.0
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Agreeing w/those that are saying you need to up your calories. I'm a 50 year old, 5'6" 143 lb woman and I average about 2300 cals/day. Even when I was in losing mode (been at goal for almost 4 years) I didn't go below 1800 cals (after 1st 10 weeks). I truly believe that part of why people feel hunger is because they aren't eating nutritional foods. Decrease the amount of processed foods (especially those high calorie carb laden choices), increase your protein and fat, and see what happens. A0
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OP, you will notice a gain of weight for a few weeks as your body adjusts to and gets used to the calories and the difference in protein and carbs. Once your body regulates (month or so) you should notice more strength, more energy, and then will start losing again. Give it a month to two months then start regulating the amount + or - 100 calories to find what is optimal for you.
community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/3817-eat-more-2-weigh-less0 -
Here's a little update, if anyone is interested:
Based on this discussion, and the further reading it prompted, I decided to 'reset' my calorie goals. First, I took a couple days off from tracking (conveniently, right at Thanksgiving), at which point I probably gained a bit. Then I just went with the MFP default settings, which put me at 1340 calories to start, then I 'earn' more with my Fitbit.
The first couple of days were brutal; suddenly I was REALLY hungry again. Part of that is to be expected after a couple days of turkey and pie, but now that I've been on my new totals, I'm still pretty hungry even though I'm solidly eating 500 calories a day above where I was a few weeks ago.
I'm also not earning as many calories back, mostly because the weather has been lousy and I'm not getting my steps.
I have not been on the scale since this discussion. I'm planning to weigh in again on Wednesday, just because that has always been my weigh in day. I'm pretty nervous about what I'll see, but I'm trying to prepare myself mentally. Between Thanksgiving and trying to retrain my body to deal with food, it's almost guaranteed that I'll see some weight gain. Based on past experience, it could easily be 20 pounds over the last few weeks. That terrifies me, as it could set me back close to a year. We shall see...0 -
With your current height/weight/activity level and goal (19 lbs to go according to your profile) you shouldn't have yourself set to lose 2 lbs/week. 1 lb/week is much more realistic. If you use the MFP settings, and have everything synched properly w/ your FitBit, and are weighing and measuring your food then I don't see any reason why you wouldn't lose weight trusting the guidance from those systems.
I'm almost a foot shorter than you, use FitBit, and I lose weight netting 1650 cals/day. I eat closer to 2000 most days.0 -
In my opinion, doctors know NOTHING about diet and exercise. They just say to do it. Several doctors I know admit that in medical school, they visit the subject of nutrition very briefly. They are great for acute care but not the long haul stuff, like weight loss. I use them strictly to get my blood tested every so often and that is about it.
I am not sure why you have an aversion to eating more meat but I lose more weight when I eat more protein and healthy fats, which include fat from animals. I am one of those that eats the skin off baked chicken and still loses weight. I know not everyone is like that though. I just happen to thrive on protein and fat! It took me a long time to figure that out though.
Everyone here is giving you great advice and it sounds like you are doing your best to try and change things. It is tough but you can do it!0 -
A lot will depend on the next couple of weeks. At my last weigh-in, I was at 19 pounds to go, but that could easily be double now. A current weight (followed by another weigh-in a week later) will give me a much better idea of where I'm at and where I'm heading.
I'd be thrilled with one pound a week, if that were actually to happen. Up to this point, I've been using the two pounds a week settings just to average about 4 ounces a week. (Hence, all the resetting I'm trying to do.)
I do feel like I'm starting to "normalize" a bit to this new calorie level. I'm still pretty hungry, but it's improving a little each day. If I could find a happy medium at which I started losing again AND still felt like I could eat a reasonable amount of food, that would be great.
Also, side note, I'm not terribly opposed to meat. In general, I find that a diet light in meat tends to be healthier. That said, I've done a lot of reading and research lately on the value of animal fats and proteins. So, it's probably time to do more experimenting.(Also, my wife and my kids are all vegetarians, so there's that.)
It would seem that I still have a long way to go to figure what will and won't work for me. Thanks again to everyone contributing here; it really does help a lot.0
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