Squat Pains a Plenty - Low Bar

13

Replies

  • BenjaminMFP88
    BenjaminMFP88 Posts: 660 Member
    I know, but I believe the squat to be like a puzzle with every piece having its role to play. If your feet/legs are doing it wrong, then it needs correcting just as much as the next piece :smile: If their all good, then I would look at hips and lower back such as leaning forward too much, or arching your back to far forward or back (A belt can help with this). Then it's on to the upper back, are you rounding off when you are at the bottom of the movement? If that's good then I look at the actual movement, are you splitting up the 2 motions (standing up and straightening upward, poor description)? The two movements should be performed in unison otherwise you'll end up doing more a good morning movement and putting too much stress on your lower back/hips.

    Just my two cents
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
    BenjaminMFP88 wrote: »
    I know, but I believe the squat to be like a puzzle with every piece having its role to play. If your feet/legs are doing it wrong, then it needs correcting just as much as the next piece :smile: If their all good, then I would look at hips and lower back such as leaning forward too much, or arching your back to far forward or back (A belt can help with this). Then it's on to the upper back, are you rounding off when you are at the bottom of the movement? If that's good then I look at the actual movement, are you splitting up the 2 motions (standing up and straightening upward, poor description)? The two movements should be performed in unison otherwise you'll end up doing more a good morning movement and putting too much stress on your lower back/hips.

    Just my two cents

    Following.
  • cordianet
    cordianet Posts: 534 Member
    Seems to be a lot of comments about form, but not nearly enough about mobility. In my opinion, bad form often comes from a lack for proper mobility, so your body compensates by moving how it has to. Unfortunately, sometimes that movement is hard on the joints and thus you see this sort of pain. All the comments about stance are an example. People have to vary their stance to compensate for poor mobility, but if they'd fix their mobility issues, they'd be able to keep a proper stance to maximize power and lessen the impact on their joints. To the OP with hip pain, that's most likely knee mobility issues. Likewise for the lifters complaining about knee pain, it's more than likely the culprit is limited ankle mobility. Look up Kelly Starrett and MobilityWOD for some tips, or read some of his books. There are some other good resources for mobility training as well, but I trust Kelly and some of the things you find on the net are not always right.
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
    ^^Thank you for that.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Leadfoot_Lewis wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    No I don't think the wrists should be support the weight- but I do think the elbows shouldn't be all flared out to the back- typically that's a sign of a caved chest that the core isn't supporting. I can't say I've seen anyone with a solid squat with elbows flared out behind them.

    Really?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV-8wyACXv8

    I can post many more examples if you'd like. This is one of the gentlemen that taught me how to squat. It is VERY common with a Low Bar Back Squat to have your elbows up. The elbow in which everyone keeps going on about is more common in a High Bar Squat,where you do lead out of the hole with the chest more so than a Low Squat, where hip drive gets you out. Unless I read the title wrong, high bar is not how the OP is lifting.



    I can't watch the video at work- but you're absolutely right- I totally mixed my two up- I tend to be high bar- I stand corrected- I do know people who wing out/back with elbows on low bar.

    LULZ- this is why posting at night after mehican is a bad idea- it's like a food coma.

    I think we can all agree- no matter where your elbows are- your wrists and elbows shouldn't be bearing the brunt of the pressure but the back- either in high or low?

    I think that's really the take away here.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    Yup, besides, when you hit 3,4 plates... do you really want your arms doing anything other than keeping it stable on Mount Shoulder?

    smitty- drop your weight a bit too, do a bit of work just empty bar, then 135# and compare.
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
    dbmata wrote: »
    Yup, besides, when you hit 3,4 plates... do you really want your arms doing anything other than keeping it stable on Mount Shoulder?

    smitty- drop your weight a bit too, do a bit of work just empty bar, then 135# and compare.

    Will do. Thank you again.
  • jmg000
    jmg000 Posts: 16 Member
    edited November 2014
    djprice_69 wrote: »
    Google "Louie Simmons Squat" and you'll see plenty of pictures on squatting form.

    Do Not use Louie Simmons as an example of how to squat. I don't think the OP is a juiced up, multi-ply power lifter.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    jmg000 wrote: »
    djprice_69 wrote: »
    Google "Louie Simmons Squat" and you'll see plenty of pictures on squatting form.

    Do Not use Louie Simmons as an example of how to squat. I don't think the OP is a juiced up, multi-ply power lifter.

    Mr. Simmons trains both geared and raw powerlifters and I believe he holds a raw squat-record. He has forgotten more about training than anybody here will ever know. I would look at his videos, probably watch "So You Think You Can Squat" (EliteFTS), and Mark Rippletoe. That will give you a range of experience to review and see what might work for you. PED's matter little if you don't do the exercise correctly, train correctly, and recover correctly.
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    smittybuilt19 wrote: »
    Folks I greatly appreciate the advice. This is the point where I become confused, doubt my abilities, and focus on wayyy too many cues. In the past I've hit a point like this, scrapped my form all together, started over. I am now back to the amount I was squatting 3 months ago, and don't want to revert. (I do realize I may need to slow the progression and maybe back off 10% to work on form)

    I will summarize what I feel like has been said here to most likely help me fix the problem.
    1) Core strength needs work
    2) Chest up, wrists straight, elbows as far forward as possible
    3) Possibly narrow stance a bit to alleviate the original issue: femoral head pain.

    Thanks for all the input y'all! I will hopefully post a front shot tomorrow.

    You're on the right track. RE: full deload and working your way back up, that's great advice in some ways but at the same time, your progress will suffer greatly. I only really recommend a full deload when form is absolutely horrific and needs a complete revamp. I don't think your form is all that bad, it's clear you're struggling and it's breaking a bit but that's what happens at max effort. Putting in work at max effort is how you learn to deal with technique issues at max effort. Worst case I'd try deloading a little, like 10% tops (maybe 15lbs?) and then work back up over the course of a couple weeks. That's not too bad.
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
    ^^I appreciate the advice. I do feel like my joints are needing a break as I have been progressing on schedule for the last 9 weeks or so. Thanksgiving may give me some rest and I may reset 10 to 15% to work on form.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »
    I would look at his videos, probably watch "So You Think You Can Squat" (EliteFTS), and Mark Rippletoe.
    Just finally got around to seeing this. Quite excellent. Making me rethink my own form too.

  • yopeeps025
    yopeeps025 Posts: 8,680 Member
    Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »
    jmg000 wrote: »
    djprice_69 wrote: »
    Google "Louie Simmons Squat" and you'll see plenty of pictures on squatting form.

    Do Not use Louie Simmons as an example of how to squat. I don't think the OP is a juiced up, multi-ply power lifter.

    Mr. Simmons trains both geared and raw powerlifters and I believe he holds a raw squat-record. He has forgotten more about training than anybody here will ever know. I would look at his videos, probably watch "So You Think You Can Squat" (EliteFTS), and Mark Rippletoe. That will give you a range of experience to review and see what might work for you. PED's matter little if you don't do the exercise correctly, train correctly, and recover correctly.

    awesome video to look at.
  • ChrisR46
    ChrisR46 Posts: 9
    super wide squat stances are normally used by geared powerlifters attempting to get the most poundage up in the movement through shortening the ROM. There is much potential for injury squatting that wide, especially with heavy weight. As others have said, a narrower stance is very good for knee health, as is going just below parallel. I'm sure that this was covered already, but I didn't see it when I read through the thread, so sorry if I'm just repeating!
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    Not if you're conditioned for it.
  • ChrisR46
    ChrisR46 Posts: 9
    True that, and those monsters of men that squat 800lbs+ super wide would attest to that. I believe that adopting a narrower stance is just plain better for people that dont plan on competing in equipped power lifting.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    It's also a matter of comfort. I squat rather wide, and it works fairly well for me, but I'm also sub 400#. If someone's going to compete, they're going to adopt a method of squatting that's the most mechanically efficient and repeatable. If it's injuring you when you do it, it isn't repeatable.
  • ChrisR46
    ChrisR46 Posts: 9
    My stance is slightly wider than shoulder width. That feels most comfortable for me. If I go out really wide I feel like I'm impinging my hip joint, and my ROM basically changes to slightly above parallel. To put that into perspective, I have no problem going *kitten* to grass on front squats, and I easily hit below depth on low bar squats. It just feels right for me.
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
    edited December 2014
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=rTWvRY06Owg&feature=youtu.be

    Form video. Trying to keep elbows under the bar, and chest up.

    *Yes, it was shot with a potato.
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
    edited December 2014
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z7IOQh7JPcI&feature=youtu.be

    Another video, a little more weight this time.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    second video, 0:17 your knees squeezing inward?
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
    dbmata wrote: »
    second video, 0:17 your knees squeezing inward?

    Now that's a quick response. I didn't feel it during the lift but when watching it does appear that way. I was focused on several things today: fewer steps out of the rack, chest up, elbows under, stay rigid. I may have not even been thinking about pushing knees out.
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    Looked pretty good, other than the knee comment. It's hard to tell from the angle though....

    Depth was there, better with the chest position and driving elbows under.
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
    The more I review it the more I see my butt rising and elbows going back. I've started 5/3/1 and light on purpose, so I should have a few training cycles to work out these issues before it gets heavy again.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    If you're low bar working it, I think you'll have a more vertical torso, but get those elbows pointed a little more towards the ground, bubba. Maintain the neutral head, and it should get you a little more solid on the torso.

    How is your bracing? Also, these look a lot better, you're working hard.
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
    Bracing has always been an issue. I feel like I take a deep breath into my belly but sometimes I think I subconsciously let it go during the descent. It seems that when I focus on keeping a tight back and full belly one or the other always disappears throughout the movement.
  • Fujiberry
    Fujiberry Posts: 400 Member
    smittybuilt19 wrote: »
    dbmata wrote: »
    second video, 0:17 your knees squeezing inward?

    Now that's a quick response. I didn't feel it during the lift but when watching it does appear that way. I was focused on several things today: fewer steps out of the rack, chest up, elbows under, stay rigid. I may have not even been thinking about pushing knees out.
    Form looks good. Great depth. The only thing I would watch is your hip/chest syncing. Your hips rise before your chest during the last few reps, which makes you lean/tip forward and makes it look like you're doing a mini good morning.

    As I was reading through the thread, I made a few notes :

    - Squat as wide/narrow as your body likes. I would prefer to squat wider (less distance to travel to proper depth), but I have a muscle imbalance as well as hip dysplasia, so I instead squat with a very narrow stance (closer than hip width). The cue that helps me is 'leg pressing' the floor.

    - If you've got some knee pain, invest in a pair of knee sleeves. They'll keep your knees warm and your knees will track better

    - If you've got hip pain like I do, always warm up your hips with hip opening dynamic stretches before squatting/deadlifting. My favorites are : Standing hip circles, fire hydrant kicks, side kicks, and high front kicks. What also helped me is doing a few light sets of hip thrusts on the side that has the pain. Hip pain can also be due to inactive glutes/hams, so hip thrusts will help strengthen your hips as well as your glute activation.

  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    Pause squats have helped me with bracing issues in the past. Perhaps consider a few lighter weight back off sets after the main sets as paused work.
  • bostonwolf
    bostonwolf Posts: 3,038 Member
    Can't let go during the descent. If you lose your core there you are in big trouble. Once I get back up through about a 3/4 squat I will start to release my breath. Pretty much at the point where I know I'll complete the rep.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    smittybuilt19 wrote: »
    Bracing has always been an issue. I feel like I take a deep breath into my belly but sometimes I think I subconsciously let it go during the descent. It seems that when I focus on keeping a tight back and full belly one or the other always disappears throughout the movement.

    You're going to murder yourself dude.

    You do not lose that tightness. Drop the load until you have that bomber.
This discussion has been closed.

Categories