Using my back to squat when I'm tired
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Is THAT what the FTS means?!
sonofa...0 -
The advice to take a deep breath at the top of the squat and suck in your stomach is really useful because it takes lots of stress off your back.
I'd have to strongly disagree with the sucking in your stomach part. By filling your belly with air you'll have a stronger base and protect your spine. Can't do that if you are sucking in your stomach. Same procedure for deadlifts. Watch a video of a PL doing a squat, they are not sucking in their stomachs.
But don't take my word for it, these guys would know better.
From Dave Tate's Free Squat Manual
http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/powerlifting-articles/dave-tates-free-squat-manual/
"Belly full of air – breathe into you belly, not your chest. Look in the mirror – does you chest rise when you take a breath? If so, learn to pull that air into your belly. The reason is if you pull air into your chest, what happens when you breathe out? Your chest falls and the bar drifts forward."
https://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/63-ten-training-myths-exposed.html
Brian Carroll, author of the 10/20/Life training book, helps you to weed through all the poor squatting technique advice, and improve your form, safety and gym results.
"While you’re sticking to the above cues, you should also be pushing your belly out, keeping it firm, and generating plenty of stiffness and tightness from head to toe."
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/5-reasons-squat-sucks0 -
That's a good point, he of thunderous quads.
Darren, it's super easy to test this out. Do a rep with stomach in and your core braced, and then stomach out, diaphragm breathing with abs braced. Do it with a light weight though.
What you'll find is that during the lift with your stomach in tight you'll lack a significant amount of stability. At least, that's what happened when I tested it out myself.0 -
Ok guys, I'll drop the weight. Also, my trainer said to grip the floor with my toes. What do you guys think of this?
I've tried this, I actually feel it helps me engage my quads more. Personal preference I suppose, but this guy has a massive squat and he recommends it as well.
Brian Carroll, author of the 10/20/Life training book, helps you to weed through all the poor squatting technique advice, and improve your form, safety and gym results.
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/5-reasons-squat-sucks
Here’s the list of cues you need to know before the next time you squat:
• Sit back into your squats, not down. Think “hip hinge.” That’s the key to a powerful squat.
• Grip the floor “like a monkey” to solidify your foundation when you’re ready to descend.
• Try to bend the bar with your lats. Pulling your elbows down and locking in your back will create leverage advantages that will totally blow your mind.
• Instead of looking down like so many so-called experts have been telling you, you need to be looking up. Get your eyes on the point where the wall meets the ceiling. This will both give you better leverage and promote a healthy squatting posture.
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Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »It's hard to say; I'm of the school of thought that until you have the experience under your belt to design your own program or edit an existing successful program, then you should do the program as written. I'm assuming you're a healthy individual that just needs to improve their strength.
I had a longer response but I decided to back-track a little. It seems like this thread is going in multiple directions.
- OP wants to use something like Stronglifts / Starting Strength
- OP also has a personal trainer or friend that is a personal trainer and lending help
- OP is editing existing programs to fit
I think at some point you need to narrow down your focus and choose one thing to do and go with it. I'm not trying to be mean here by any means so please don't take this the wrong way, but you're not experienced enough to edit an existing & proven program. When Bill Starr did 5x5 years ago he had a purpose for everything he put in there, same thing with Rip and Starting Strength, they have a reason for the way things are.
If your trainer friend is NASM certified in CES, CPT, or PES then talk to him about training in Phase 1 of the OPT model; you may need to start there and build some base strength & stabilization. If something else then see what it is about. If not, then just take SL5x5 or SS as is and make a run at it. Does your gym have the short Olympic Bar? If so, try benching and pressing with that and make weight adjustments accordingly. Does your gym have a swiss bar? That's another option for Pressing as it is a little more natural.
Okay. I really want to do StrongLifts, but I know that I don't have enough of a solid base to start. I had a trainer in the summer who told me the exact same thing (he looked at me squatting while holding a stick above my head and noticed that one glute was going down lower than the other), and then proceeded to show me all these glute and core exercises. I still have all the exercises written down, and I've been practicing some of them in the gym. First of all, I just want to get this out, but I am *kitten* stupid. This trainer told me that I should work 12 weeks or something just on strengthening my core and glutes. Stupid me, only caring about gaining muscle was just like: "yeah, I can just add a couple of these exercises to the end of my StrongLifts workout... I don't need to stop squatting or deadlifting. Actually, someone on MFP told me that as well. He was like: "yeah, if you want to strengthen your core and glutes, don't stop squatting and don't stop deadlifting!" Well... a lot that has helped me with... 4 months later, and my form still collapses when I add on weight. *kitten* *kitten* *kitten*.
So now that I know that I was just being stubborn, I can completely forget about StrongLifts for the moment. I talked to my trainer friend today (saw hanging up on his wall that he is NASM certified or whatever), and he said that yes, I should start training in phase 1 of the OPT model to work on stability. He says it takes about 4 weeks to complete. He was really busy, so he just quickly scanned through this thread and told me that I have to be careful about who I'm listening to and that a lot of the info here can be misleading. Which is true to some extent, there is just so much contradicting advice; everyone has their own say, and a lot of the times, it is based on their own experience; what might feel right or work right for someone, might be different for someone else. So up to this point, I'm still confused. Do I grip the floor with my toes, or do I not? I find that yes, it does help with balancing my glutes on descension, but it prevents me from pushing from my heels. And how do I brace my core without doing a stomach vaccum? I mean, I always think that bracing my core = sucking in my stomach, is it not? Or is it just holding in my breath without sucking in my stomach?
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For all of us, form collapses in some way when we get near maximal weights. I'm sure some of my deadlifts looked horrid earlier today when I was poking around over my 1RM. Don't let the quest for perfection prevent you from doing anything.
Do Stronglifts, follow the program.
That will bring up the places where you are weak. Just start at low weights and follow the progression. That program is made for stone cold newbies, so there are any pre-requisites, you know? I'd also suggest doing what I did, hire a trainer for a little bit and work on making that form "bulletproof."0 -
For all of us, form collapses in some way when we get near maximal weights. I'm sure some of my deadlifts looked horrid earlier today when I was poking around over my 1RM. Don't let the quest for perfection prevent you from doing anything.
Do Stronglifts, follow the program.
That will bring up the places where you are weak. Just start at low weights and follow the progression. That program is made for stone cold newbies, so there are any pre-requisites, you know? I'd also suggest doing what I did, hire a trainer for a little bit and work on making that form "bulletproof."
I have been doing StrongLifts (except that I replaced 2 of the exercises), and it has brought up the places where I am weak. So doesn't this mean that I should take 4 weeks off to work on stability for my core and glutes?
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I wouldn't. I also wouldn't replace 2 of the exercises. Stronglifts has 4 core exercises, so you... someone with 0 training in programming decided to roll your own. You took out two lifts that will do a lot for fixing core and glute issues.
You replaced them with less effective lifts. My suggestion. Start over with Stronglifts, and do the program AS IT IS PRESCRIBED.
Clear?
Listen, I understand, OHP is hard for me because I have poor shoulder mobility. So I'm working with my trainer, I'm doing stretching, and going to be bringing on a PT to fix that. I'm still doing the lifts, albeit at a lower weight.0 -
So up to this point, I'm still confused. Do I grip the floor with my toes, or do I not? I find that yes, it does help with balancing my glutes on descension, but it prevents me from pushing from my heels. And how do I brace my core without doing a stomach vaccum? I mean, I always think that bracing my core = sucking in my stomach, is it not? Or is it just holding in my breath without sucking in my stomach?
Gripping the floor isn't necessary, especially at this point. Once you have your form down it's something you can try. Then you can see if you prefer it, if not go back to your original style.
Breathing - try this now, you don't have to be under a bar. Take a deep breathe, but draw it into your belly, and expand your belly outwards. Now clench your abs hard pushing outwards, DO NOT SUCK IN YOUR GUT. Practice that until it feels natural. Then do it with the bar on your back. Breathe deep into belly, tighten everything up, descend, and on the way back up start exhaling if you have to. Some hold their breathe until they're fully upright. Good luck.0 -
So now that I know that I was just being stubborn, I can completely forget about StrongLifts for the moment. I talked to my trainer friend today (saw hanging up on his wall that he is NASM certified or whatever), and he said that yes, I should start training in phase 1 of the OPT model to work on stability. He says it takes about 4 weeks to complete. He was really busy, so he just quickly scanned through this thread and told me that I have to be careful about who I'm listening to and that a lot of the info here can be misleading. Which is true to some extent, there is just so much contradicting advice; everyone has their own say, and a lot of the times, it is based on their own experience; what might feel right or work right for someone, might be different for someone else. So up to this point, I'm still confused. Do I grip the floor with my toes, or do I not? I find that yes, it does help with balancing my glutes on descension, but it prevents me from pushing from my heels. And how do I brace my core without doing a stomach vaccum? I mean, I always think that bracing my core = sucking in my stomach, is it not? Or is it just holding in my breath without sucking in my stomach?
It sounds like you have a good trainer there then, I would use him. Yes, Phase 1 of the OPT Model should only be 4 weeks long unless your trainer feels you need to go longer. This will give you a good opportunity to build some good balance and core strength & stability through a variety of exercises. In Phase 2 and if your trainer feels it's appropriate, you may actually be able to start squatting and you may do something like a Back Squat super-setted with DB Step-Up w/ Frontal Plane Balance (depending on where you need help with your balance).
A lot of people on here get all "RAH-RAH!... StrongLifts... Squats... Deadlifts" and there's nothing wrong with that but starting with those exercises is not always appropriate for everybody. Some people simply do not have the basic mobility and strength required to do those exercises correctly. If you can't do the exercises correctly then there's no point in doing them. Furthermore, if you end-up over-compensating you will get yourself hurt in-time. The cumulative injury cycle starts with one injury and leads to additional injuries, it's not good. Four weeks is nothing but a "blip' in-time; it's nothing, so take that four weeks to improve basic movement function & strength and then you'll be ready or close to ready to kill-it in the squat rack.
FeralX is correct, don't suck in your gut like that, it can actually lead to a spine injury.
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Ok Dern, I read through through the first two pages. What I do is I look up and fix my eyes on a spot where the ceiling and the Wall meet. When I get to the down position I then take a breath, look up, lean back and push with my heels. As I go up I push my air out. When I'm standing and I need to, I take a few more breaths before I go down again. I keep my eyes on the spot and breath out. You will not lean forward anymore. I squat more than most men at the gym and it works for me.
When I want to get stronger I always go up in weight to a weight that is too heavy. I do one rep and lower the weight. That always got me stronger fast. If you try this you need a spotter or raise the safety bars up high.
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yeah... no.
You don't want to be in the hole and breathing, that will jack up your abdominal bracing, and courting with complete and utter destruction.0 -
Great work, All you need is some experience. First, stop wasting time squatting with no or light weight. You are fit and can do so much more. 2nd Look up. Don't watch yourself. Keep you eyes up on the wall. 3rd bring your stance in a bit. feet should be about hip to shoulder with apart. 4th. Breath use your breath to push out that power. blow your air out through your mouth. 5. raise your side supports and your weight holder arms. Your side supports are way to low for safety and you should have that bar in a higher starting position.
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Add some weight and don't go so far down just to get the hang of heavy weight you can do just one if its too heavy stop and download. Your much stronger than you are lifting.
Let me know how you do. I speak from lost of experience and success. I started out 20 years ago and couldn't lift the bar. I quickly started lifting more than most men. Now at almost 52 years old and a woman I can say I have taught myself how to squat over the years and I never had any permanent injury's. I have become super strong and most men your age wish they could keep up with me in squats.0 -
i like the low bar squat advice. It helps. you will get use to it and over time it will allow you to be more powerful.0
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yeah... no.
You don't want to be in the hole and breathing, that will jack up your abdominal bracing, and courting with complete and utter destruction.
This. It would actually be so bad that you could potentially cause a chain reaction of really bad *kitten* that would ultimately collapse the sun into a black hole and destroy our entire solar system. Or you might just really screw up your back.0 -
At best, you'll only divide by zero and you'll fail the lift.
At worst, like the feral one said... you'll kill us all. You don't want our blood on your hands. Do you?
DO YOU?!0 -
Another thing, when I squat light weight I actually perform poorly. There is something different that will occur when you have a heavy weight on the bar. Start with 25 on each side. You should not be squatting less than that. Your fit so don't be afraid to go for it. You will focus more and you wont mind holding that bar low on your back as much. Don't forget to raise the safety bar do it very high till you get comfortable. and make sure you raise the hangers so your not bending down out the gate. I set mine so I have to slightly raise my self up. I start looking at my spot on the ceiling before I even lift my weight off the rack. You will not fall forward if you look up.
Another thing there is a difference between asking advice from a trainer friend and hiring one. If you hire a good trainer they will walk you through the entire from and be able to adjust what you need right there when you need it.
It was smart of you to video yourself and ask for advice. Being able to see what your doing really gives you better advice.0 -
Would a lifting belt help?0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMzLXUWtP7I&list=UUfp6G6JnSdF0XYP6MCVgOQA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcfgrV2Ay0s&list=UUfp6G6JnSdF0XYP6MCVgOQA&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KglS2WW06w&index=3&list=UUfp6G6JnSdF0XYP6MCVgOQA
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