The Beginner's Guide To Bulking : How to Develop Quality Mass the CORRECT Way
beastcompany
Posts: 230 Member
Introduction
It seems like there is never a shortage of new members in the forum seeking advice on this topic, with new threads daily.
Given, there is PLENTY of great information available throughout the forum on the various aspects of this, I thought maybe it was time to go ahead and do a BASIC, to the point, guide on the subject, covering all the aspects of it (nutrition, training, supplements, etc.)
This guide will strictly be covering BULKING.
Why?
Because 9/10 of you starting your fitness journey do not have any reasonable amount of muscle mass that would justify you cutting or losing weight.
I don't say this to be discouraging, it's just the truth.
If you don't have the muscle to show, what do you expect to look like when you lose body fat?
'But Why Should We Listen To You?'
BECAUSE I'M SHREDDED!
Not really.
Don't listen if you don't feel my advice would help you.
I'm not telling you that you HAVE to do things my way or that my way is best (lots will disagree).
The purpose of this guide is to create a simple, easy to read and understand, outline of the basics of the varying topics involved in bulking, and how you can apply them to see results.
Take the information I provide and apply it as you see fit, or don't.
Choice is yours.
I have no degrees or certifications to back up what I said.
I am not a nutritionist or exercise physiologist...hell, I'm not even a certified PT.
What I do have is a little bit of personal experience in this subject (review my Bodyspace or personal training journal to see my training/transformation history), a little bit of time browsing the forum, interacting with members, learning, applying what I've learned, and doing a bit of studying/reading on the different topics involved from experts in their respective fields, and using a little bit of 'bro-science' partnered with what research is telling us works best...I think I just may be able to help.
Now, let's get this thing going!
I. Nutrition
This is THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT of the entire process.
Without having your diet in check, no amount of training/supplementation will give you results.
YOU NEED TO EAT TO GROW
Before we even get into things, you should do these two items
1. Get yourself a food scale to weigh/measure what you're ACTUALLY CONSUMING (they can be found relatively cheap at Wal-Mart or any chain store like it)
2. UTILIZE THIS WEBSITE/APP to accurately track your intake.
IA. Calorie + Nutrient Requirements
There are two ways you can determine these.
I'd recommend the first option I provide, as it will (likely) be a more accurate starting point, however the fact of the matter is...either way you go, it's still just an ESTIMATE on required intake, and your actual needs will be determined through applying this information and using trail + error to find your balance.
Option A (Detailed + Accurate)
The Sticky Thread ; forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=156380183
This thread will provide you with various formulas to determine a calorie baseline requirement, and the MINIMUM target amounts for protein and fat intake.
It's also going to take a slight bit more work on your part with working through the formulas, however it's really not that difficult.
Option B (Simple)
Calories : 16-18 calories/lb (35.2-39.6 calories/kg)
Protein : 1g/lb (2.2g/kg)
Fat : .5g/lb (1.1g/kg)
Carbohydrates : As many/few as you'd like staying in your calorie target
This method will catch more flack than the other, but I'm not here to make everyone happy.
This is a short + sweet method to going about determining your needs and giving you a STARTING POINT for beginning the process.
I don't condone the lazy path, however I'd rather give you this option and at least get your *kitten* in gear, than have you not even bother starting because you don't want to put in the effort to sort out the math provided in the first option.
Assessing Results
Continue with your new caloric intake for 3-4 weeks.
At this point begin monitoring your weekly/bi-weekly weight fluctuations and use the AVERAGE results to determine weight change.
You should be targeting a weight gain of .5-1lb/week AVERAGE.
Notice my constant emphasis on the word AVERAGE, this is because there will be daily weight fluctuations due to a variety of factors, however it's your balance over time that will show true results.
IB. Meal Timing/Frequency
The general consensus (and fact of the matter) is that meal timing/frequency is irrelevant to body composition, and, assuming your dietary intake is the same over this time period, results will not be noticeably different solely based on the factors of meal timing/frequency.
Now, that being said, even some of the biggest names in the world of nutrition (to include our beloved Alan Aragon) have gone to state that does not mean to TOTALLY undermine this aspect of things, with a good rule of thumb being to try and eat something within 2 hours of training (be it pre-/post-) and although 2-3 meals/day will yield LARGELY similar results...there may be something to be said for 3-4 meals/day as SLIGHTLY more 'optimal'
Again though, take it for what it is, and either route you choose, you will likely yield very similar results.
IC. Water Intake
Proper hydration should not have to be emphasized, but I'm going to cover it anyways to ensure you're paying attention.
It's crucial in daily function and can have a drastic toll on your training, and life in general, if you're not hydrated.
There really is no [x] = correct amount here, as it'll vary based on a variety of factors.
Based on information provided in various websites, a solid general guide seems to be around 5 clear urinations/day.
II. Training/Workout Program
Beginner Programs
Option 1. forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843
Option 2. jcdfitness.com/2009/01/lyle-mcdonalds-bulking-routine/
Option 3. stronglifts.com/5x5/
I'd also suggest Google searching for 'Starting Strength'
*Feel free to mention/link any program I missed or you feel should be included*
My Outline
Again, I'll offer you options here.
Option A
Full Body
3x/Week Training Frequency
Outline
Exercises
Squat / Deadlift / Bench Press
Leg Press / Bent Over Row / Overhead Press
Skull Crushers
Barbell Curl
Crunches
Reps x Sets
Compound Lifts : 2 x 6 / 2 x 8 / 1 x 12
Accessories : 4 x 8
Day 1
Squat
Overhead Press
Skull Crushers
Barbell Curl
Crunches
Day 2
Deadlift
Bent Over Row
Skull Crushers
Barbell Curl
Crunches
Day 3
Bench press
Leg Press
Skull Crushers
Barbell Curl
Crunches
Structure
Day 1 , Rest , Day 2 , Rest , Day 3 , Rest , Rest
Option B
Upper / Lower
2x/Week Training Frequency (Per Day)
Outline
Reps x Sets
Compound Lifts : 2 x 6 / 2 x 8 / 1 x 12
Accessories : 4 x 8
Upper Day
Bench Press (U1) / Deadlift (U2)
Bent Over Row (U1) / Overhead Press (U2)
Cable Fly
Lat Pulldown
Skull Crushers
Barbell Curl
Crunches
Lower Day
Squats (L1) / Leg Press (l2)
Seated Leg Extensions
Lying Leg Curls
Seated Calf Raise
Crunches
Hyperextensions
Structure
U1 , Rest , L1 , Rest , U2 , L2 , Rest
Cardio During Bulking
Why cardio during when bulking?
It will increase your appetite, daily caloric intake, and it's a great tool for overall health.
Keep it simple though.
Get yourself 3-4 light intensity (LISS) cardio sessions throughout your training week and call it good.
Keep them 20-30 minutes in duration.
You could even use it for a warm up/cool down pre-/post- training.
Get in 10 minutes before lifting to warm the body up, workout, then go ahead and ease out of it with another 10 minutes.
^^^ THIS IS THE METHOD I SUGGEST ^^^
You're already at the gym anyways, so you're much more likely to go through with ACTUALLY DOING YOUR CARDIO.
As opposed to people doing cardio on off days, I feel there is a much higher risk you'll skip it simply because it's an 'off day' and you're not going to want to get up and do it.
III. Supplements
Supplements....DON'T BOTHER!
What?!
But don't we need our post-workout shake and dextrose + 20g/creatine loading phase for peak anaBROlism?!
NO!
During the early stages of your training, your emphasis should be on the basics.
Training + Nutrition.
Get your diet in check, learn about proper form with your exercises/movements, focus on progression, and you are going to yield GREAT RESULTS, without the addition supplements.
#1 FAQ
How Long Do I Bulk For?
Until you look in the mirror and think yourself 'I'm a disgusting SLOB!'...
...okay not quiet, but there is a bit of truth behind it.
Your bulk should continue until you're no longer comfortable with your body fat %.
Although I try to steer clear of this recommendation because I feel beginners are much more likely to undergo a bit of body dysmorphia during your early stages of bulking, due to the slight increase in fat mass, you will begin to think you need to cut before you really do.
Time Frame Recommendations
MINIMUM : 6 Months
RECOMMENDED : 1 Year
Your first bulk is going to be your best.
Your bodies natural potential for development and growth is at it's highest, take advantage of it!
ADDITIONAL REFERENCES/INFORMATION SOURCES
Websites
1. bodyrecomposition.com
2. alanaragon.com
3. lookgreatnaked.com/fitness_articles_by_brad_schoenfeld.php
It may seem like a lot, but I tried to keep it as short and sweet as possible, yet still cover ALL of what I felt the most crucial/important aspects of this process and help you get underway.
Hopefully you enjoyed it, have learned something from it, and can apply it to help you in your goals.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS DO NOT HESITATE TO ASK!
Post any/all questions regarding bulking in this thread and myself, and some of the other members will happily assist you in answering them.
It seems like there is never a shortage of new members in the forum seeking advice on this topic, with new threads daily.
Given, there is PLENTY of great information available throughout the forum on the various aspects of this, I thought maybe it was time to go ahead and do a BASIC, to the point, guide on the subject, covering all the aspects of it (nutrition, training, supplements, etc.)
This guide will strictly be covering BULKING.
Why?
Because 9/10 of you starting your fitness journey do not have any reasonable amount of muscle mass that would justify you cutting or losing weight.
I don't say this to be discouraging, it's just the truth.
If you don't have the muscle to show, what do you expect to look like when you lose body fat?
'But Why Should We Listen To You?'
BECAUSE I'M SHREDDED!
Not really.
Don't listen if you don't feel my advice would help you.
I'm not telling you that you HAVE to do things my way or that my way is best (lots will disagree).
The purpose of this guide is to create a simple, easy to read and understand, outline of the basics of the varying topics involved in bulking, and how you can apply them to see results.
Take the information I provide and apply it as you see fit, or don't.
Choice is yours.
I have no degrees or certifications to back up what I said.
I am not a nutritionist or exercise physiologist...hell, I'm not even a certified PT.
What I do have is a little bit of personal experience in this subject (review my Bodyspace or personal training journal to see my training/transformation history), a little bit of time browsing the forum, interacting with members, learning, applying what I've learned, and doing a bit of studying/reading on the different topics involved from experts in their respective fields, and using a little bit of 'bro-science' partnered with what research is telling us works best...I think I just may be able to help.
Now, let's get this thing going!
I. Nutrition
This is THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT of the entire process.
Without having your diet in check, no amount of training/supplementation will give you results.
YOU NEED TO EAT TO GROW
Before we even get into things, you should do these two items
1. Get yourself a food scale to weigh/measure what you're ACTUALLY CONSUMING (they can be found relatively cheap at Wal-Mart or any chain store like it)
2. UTILIZE THIS WEBSITE/APP to accurately track your intake.
IA. Calorie + Nutrient Requirements
There are two ways you can determine these.
I'd recommend the first option I provide, as it will (likely) be a more accurate starting point, however the fact of the matter is...either way you go, it's still just an ESTIMATE on required intake, and your actual needs will be determined through applying this information and using trail + error to find your balance.
Option A (Detailed + Accurate)
The Sticky Thread ; forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=156380183
This thread will provide you with various formulas to determine a calorie baseline requirement, and the MINIMUM target amounts for protein and fat intake.
It's also going to take a slight bit more work on your part with working through the formulas, however it's really not that difficult.
Option B (Simple)
Calories : 16-18 calories/lb (35.2-39.6 calories/kg)
Protein : 1g/lb (2.2g/kg)
Fat : .5g/lb (1.1g/kg)
Carbohydrates : As many/few as you'd like staying in your calorie target
This method will catch more flack than the other, but I'm not here to make everyone happy.
This is a short + sweet method to going about determining your needs and giving you a STARTING POINT for beginning the process.
I don't condone the lazy path, however I'd rather give you this option and at least get your *kitten* in gear, than have you not even bother starting because you don't want to put in the effort to sort out the math provided in the first option.
Assessing Results
Continue with your new caloric intake for 3-4 weeks.
At this point begin monitoring your weekly/bi-weekly weight fluctuations and use the AVERAGE results to determine weight change.
You should be targeting a weight gain of .5-1lb/week AVERAGE.
Notice my constant emphasis on the word AVERAGE, this is because there will be daily weight fluctuations due to a variety of factors, however it's your balance over time that will show true results.
IB. Meal Timing/Frequency
The general consensus (and fact of the matter) is that meal timing/frequency is irrelevant to body composition, and, assuming your dietary intake is the same over this time period, results will not be noticeably different solely based on the factors of meal timing/frequency.
Now, that being said, even some of the biggest names in the world of nutrition (to include our beloved Alan Aragon) have gone to state that does not mean to TOTALLY undermine this aspect of things, with a good rule of thumb being to try and eat something within 2 hours of training (be it pre-/post-) and although 2-3 meals/day will yield LARGELY similar results...there may be something to be said for 3-4 meals/day as SLIGHTLY more 'optimal'
Again though, take it for what it is, and either route you choose, you will likely yield very similar results.
IC. Water Intake
Proper hydration should not have to be emphasized, but I'm going to cover it anyways to ensure you're paying attention.
It's crucial in daily function and can have a drastic toll on your training, and life in general, if you're not hydrated.
There really is no [x] = correct amount here, as it'll vary based on a variety of factors.
Based on information provided in various websites, a solid general guide seems to be around 5 clear urinations/day.
II. Training/Workout Program
Beginner Programs
Option 1. forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843
Option 2. jcdfitness.com/2009/01/lyle-mcdonalds-bulking-routine/
Option 3. stronglifts.com/5x5/
I'd also suggest Google searching for 'Starting Strength'
*Feel free to mention/link any program I missed or you feel should be included*
My Outline
Again, I'll offer you options here.
Option A
Full Body
3x/Week Training Frequency
Outline
Exercises
Squat / Deadlift / Bench Press
Leg Press / Bent Over Row / Overhead Press
Skull Crushers
Barbell Curl
Crunches
Reps x Sets
Compound Lifts : 2 x 6 / 2 x 8 / 1 x 12
Accessories : 4 x 8
Day 1
Squat
Overhead Press
Skull Crushers
Barbell Curl
Crunches
Day 2
Deadlift
Bent Over Row
Skull Crushers
Barbell Curl
Crunches
Day 3
Bench press
Leg Press
Skull Crushers
Barbell Curl
Crunches
Structure
Day 1 , Rest , Day 2 , Rest , Day 3 , Rest , Rest
Option B
Upper / Lower
2x/Week Training Frequency (Per Day)
Outline
Reps x Sets
Compound Lifts : 2 x 6 / 2 x 8 / 1 x 12
Accessories : 4 x 8
Upper Day
Bench Press (U1) / Deadlift (U2)
Bent Over Row (U1) / Overhead Press (U2)
Cable Fly
Lat Pulldown
Skull Crushers
Barbell Curl
Crunches
Lower Day
Squats (L1) / Leg Press (l2)
Seated Leg Extensions
Lying Leg Curls
Seated Calf Raise
Crunches
Hyperextensions
Structure
U1 , Rest , L1 , Rest , U2 , L2 , Rest
Cardio During Bulking
Why cardio during when bulking?
It will increase your appetite, daily caloric intake, and it's a great tool for overall health.
Keep it simple though.
Get yourself 3-4 light intensity (LISS) cardio sessions throughout your training week and call it good.
Keep them 20-30 minutes in duration.
You could even use it for a warm up/cool down pre-/post- training.
Get in 10 minutes before lifting to warm the body up, workout, then go ahead and ease out of it with another 10 minutes.
^^^ THIS IS THE METHOD I SUGGEST ^^^
You're already at the gym anyways, so you're much more likely to go through with ACTUALLY DOING YOUR CARDIO.
As opposed to people doing cardio on off days, I feel there is a much higher risk you'll skip it simply because it's an 'off day' and you're not going to want to get up and do it.
III. Supplements
Supplements....DON'T BOTHER!
What?!
But don't we need our post-workout shake and dextrose + 20g/creatine loading phase for peak anaBROlism?!
NO!
During the early stages of your training, your emphasis should be on the basics.
Training + Nutrition.
Get your diet in check, learn about proper form with your exercises/movements, focus on progression, and you are going to yield GREAT RESULTS, without the addition supplements.
#1 FAQ
How Long Do I Bulk For?
Until you look in the mirror and think yourself 'I'm a disgusting SLOB!'...
...okay not quiet, but there is a bit of truth behind it.
Your bulk should continue until you're no longer comfortable with your body fat %.
Although I try to steer clear of this recommendation because I feel beginners are much more likely to undergo a bit of body dysmorphia during your early stages of bulking, due to the slight increase in fat mass, you will begin to think you need to cut before you really do.
Time Frame Recommendations
MINIMUM : 6 Months
RECOMMENDED : 1 Year
Your first bulk is going to be your best.
Your bodies natural potential for development and growth is at it's highest, take advantage of it!
ADDITIONAL REFERENCES/INFORMATION SOURCES
Websites
1. bodyrecomposition.com
2. alanaragon.com
3. lookgreatnaked.com/fitness_articles_by_brad_schoenfeld.php
It may seem like a lot, but I tried to keep it as short and sweet as possible, yet still cover ALL of what I felt the most crucial/important aspects of this process and help you get underway.
Hopefully you enjoyed it, have learned something from it, and can apply it to help you in your goals.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS DO NOT HESITATE TO ASK!
Post any/all questions regarding bulking in this thread and myself, and some of the other members will happily assist you in answering them.
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Replies
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Some good info here, I'm sure people will be here shortly to talk about it, But Like I say "Take what you can use and leave the rest"0
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Interesting post, for me the calories part is always a bit of a process of adjusting and trying to figure out how much is just enough to add some muscle without too much fat. That's going to be different for each person depending on their goals, their age, activity levels etc. For me I'm trying to get it about 100-200 cals above maintenance each day and that's a little tricky. I'm not too concerned about macro breakdown but aim for 1g/lb of protein, 45g of fibre and the rest of my macros I just let fall as they may but they generally seem to be about 45% carbs, 25% protein and 30% fat.
I'm slowly bulking in general but the weight does fluctuate and that makes finding the right number of calories a bit tricky.
ETA I think most people here tend to use the TDEE calculators at IFFYM or Scooby's Workshop rather than crunch the formulas by hand.0 -
Long read, but there's some useful information in there. My one and only bulk phase applied a lot of these guidelines, and my 4-day split routine wasn't all that different than what you provided (except I added in some intense glute work). I ended my bulk with a slightly lower body fat percent than when I started (I gained fat, but I gained more muscle than fat over 9 months and 14 pounds). I continued to recomp at the higher weight for several months and am now trying to cut. It's a long process, but the changes are good and definitely worth it.
Would recommend that people considering a bulk take a lot of the advice you're offering and apply it.0 -
Thank you.
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your rather good advice is lost when you open with bullsh!t crap like thisWhy?
Because 9/10 of you starting your fitness journey do not have any reasonable amount of muscle mass that would justify you cutting or losing weight.
I don't say this to be discouraging, it's just the truth.
If you don't have the muscle to show, what do you expect to look like when you lose body fat?
it's insulting and insipid.
"you should bulk because you don't have any muscle- because 90%of you are muscle-less"
I highly doubt that 90% of the people here are at a place where they need to bulk.
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Thanks for having the stones to put this out here. I'm sure the ersatz experts will attack, but I enjoyed reading it, and because it appears you've been personally successful with your advice, well, I tend to listen to people who walk the talk. One question regarding protein powder. I have not used them and don't really want to. I'm trying to make strength a long term lifestyle and shaking powder in a bottle feels unnatural and a little narcissistic to me. But your advice, and most of the stuff I've read in the various forums, say 1g for each lb of body weight, which in my case is 185g. I literally cannot eat that much meat every day, it would make me gag. What other natural (i.e. FOOD) protein sources do you use to hit your protein goal in a day? Or is it all chicken breasts and steaks?0
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your rather good advice is lost when you open with bullsh!t crap like this
it's insulting and insipid.
"you should bulk because you don't have any muscle- because 90%of you are muscle-less"
I highly doubt that 90% of the people here are at a place where they need to bulk.
There is no insult intent behind the post, it's more the simple truth that the large majority of new trainees do not have the sufficient base of lean mass that would justify them cutting to start their training career.
If yourself, or others, are offended by the statement I apologize it comes across in that manner, but in no way does it discredit the legitimacy of the information provided.
The post will stand as I've created it and if others are offended, well that sucks but at the end of the day you're not going to make everyone happy.
I'm here to share information and assist others on getting off on the right foot, not baby feelings and worry if I've upset someone.
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beastcompany wrote: »your rather good advice is lost when you open with bullsh!t crap like this
it's insulting and insipid.
"you should bulk because you don't have any muscle- because 90%of you are muscle-less"
I highly doubt that 90% of the people here are at a place where they need to bulk.
There is no insult intent behind the post, it's more the simple truth that the large majority of new trainees do not have the sufficient base of lean mass that would justify them cutting to start their training career.
If yourself, or others, are offended by the statement I apologize it comes across in that manner, but in no way does it discredit the legitimacy of the information provided.
The post will stand as I've created it and if others are offended, well that sucks but at the end of the day you're not going to make everyone happy.
I'm here to share information and assist others on getting off on the right foot, not baby feelings and worry if I've upset someone.
The problem with:
""you should bulk because you don't have any muscle- because 90%of you are muscle-less"
is it tells the readers that you do not know the audience who is reading this thread. You are in essence, telling men and women who are obese and morbidly obese that they should not cut but bulk because they are muscle-less. Wrong.
For what you are calling a beginner's guide to bulking, you have alienated alot of people with that comment because until someone who is obese, morbidly obese and even some classified as overweight, has done their cut to a more appropriate body fat level doing a bulk first would be likely medically unadvisable at best and physchologically and physically damaging at worst.
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Thanks for having the stones to put this out here. I'm sure the ersatz experts will attack, but I enjoyed reading it, and because it appears you've been personally successful with your advice, well, I tend to listen to people who walk the talk. One question regarding protein powder. I have not used them and don't really want to. I'm trying to make strength a long term lifestyle and shaking powder in a bottle feels unnatural and a little narcissistic to me. But your advice, and most of the stuff I've read in the various forums, say 1g for each lb of body weight, which in my case is 185g. I literally cannot eat that much meat every day, it would make me gag. What other natural (i.e. FOOD) protein sources do you use to hit your protein goal in a day? Or is it all chicken breasts and steaks?
1 g per lb of "lean body mass" not per lb of body weight, So figure your BF % and minus that to get your total, for me its 150 grams0 -
madrose0715 wrote: »beastcompany wrote: »your rather good advice is lost when you open with bullsh!t crap like this
it's insulting and insipid.
"you should bulk because you don't have any muscle- because 90%of you are muscle-less"
I highly doubt that 90% of the people here are at a place where they need to bulk.
There is no insult intent behind the post, it's more the simple truth that the large majority of new trainees do not have the sufficient base of lean mass that would justify them cutting to start their training career.
If yourself, or others, are offended by the statement I apologize it comes across in that manner, but in no way does it discredit the legitimacy of the information provided.
The post will stand as I've created it and if others are offended, well that sucks but at the end of the day you're not going to make everyone happy.
I'm here to share information and assist others on getting off on the right foot, not baby feelings and worry if I've upset someone.
The problem with:
""you should bulk because you don't have any muscle- because 90%of you are muscle-less"
is it tells the readers that you do not know the audience who is reading this thread. You are in essence, telling men and women who are obese and morbidly obese that they should not cut but bulk because they are muscle-less. Wrong.
For what you are calling a beginner's guide to bulking, you have alienated alot of people with that comment because until someone who is obese, morbidly obese and even some classified as overweight, has done their cut to a more appropriate body fat level doing a bulk first would be likely medically unadvisable at best and physchologically and physically damaging at worst.
This would be in the "Gaining Weight" section.0 -
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Big_Bob_Lob wrote: »madrose0715 wrote: »beastcompany wrote: »your rather good advice is lost when you open with bullsh!t crap like this
it's insulting and insipid.
"you should bulk because you don't have any muscle- because 90%of you are muscle-less"
I highly doubt that 90% of the people here are at a place where they need to bulk.
There is no insult intent behind the post, it's more the simple truth that the large majority of new trainees do not have the sufficient base of lean mass that would justify them cutting to start their training career.
If yourself, or others, are offended by the statement I apologize it comes across in that manner, but in no way does it discredit the legitimacy of the information provided.
The post will stand as I've created it and if others are offended, well that sucks but at the end of the day you're not going to make everyone happy.
I'm here to share information and assist others on getting off on the right foot, not baby feelings and worry if I've upset someone.
The problem with:
""you should bulk because you don't have any muscle- because 90%of you are muscle-less"
is it tells the readers that you do not know the audience who is reading this thread. You are in essence, telling men and women who are obese and morbidly obese that they should not cut but bulk because they are muscle-less. Wrong.
For what you are calling a beginner's guide to bulking, you have alienated alot of people with that comment because until someone who is obese, morbidly obese and even some classified as overweight, has done their cut to a more appropriate body fat level doing a bulk first would be likely medically unadvisable at best and physchologically and physically damaging at worst.
I could be wrong, but I'm not too sure that there'll be too many obese, or morbidly obese people hanging out in the "Gaining Weight" section, reading a guide on bulking. If their goals are to lose weight, then they would be in the wrong section for advice.
I understand that this is in the 'Gaining Weight Forum' but you do realize that the threads show up on the main forums page and people will read this from there - as I did? Any time anyone comments on it, it goes to the very first page on the general forum where I am sure people may or may not pay attention to what group it was posted under. This all falls under 'knowing your audience'.
Regardless of what forum it is under, my point still stands. If this is a basic, beginners guide to Bulking, in my opinion it should include the generally recommended starting BF% to begin your bulk!0 -
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madrose0715 wrote: »Big_Bob_Lob wrote: »madrose0715 wrote: »beastcompany wrote: »your rather good advice is lost when you open with bullsh!t crap like this
it's insulting and insipid.
"you should bulk because you don't have any muscle- because 90%of you are muscle-less"
I highly doubt that 90% of the people here are at a place where they need to bulk.
There is no insult intent behind the post, it's more the simple truth that the large majority of new trainees do not have the sufficient base of lean mass that would justify them cutting to start their training career.
If yourself, or others, are offended by the statement I apologize it comes across in that manner, but in no way does it discredit the legitimacy of the information provided.
The post will stand as I've created it and if others are offended, well that sucks but at the end of the day you're not going to make everyone happy.
I'm here to share information and assist others on getting off on the right foot, not baby feelings and worry if I've upset someone.
The problem with:
""you should bulk because you don't have any muscle- because 90%of you are muscle-less"
is it tells the readers that you do not know the audience who is reading this thread. You are in essence, telling men and women who are obese and morbidly obese that they should not cut but bulk because they are muscle-less. Wrong.
For what you are calling a beginner's guide to bulking, you have alienated alot of people with that comment because until someone who is obese, morbidly obese and even some classified as overweight, has done their cut to a more appropriate body fat level doing a bulk first would be likely medically unadvisable at best and physchologically and physically damaging at worst.
I could be wrong, but I'm not too sure that there'll be too many obese, or morbidly obese people hanging out in the "Gaining Weight" section, reading a guide on bulking. If their goals are to lose weight, then they would be in the wrong section for advice.
I understand that this is in the 'Gaining Weight Forum' but you do realize that the threads show up on the main forums page and people will read this from there - as I did? Any time anyone comments on it, it goes to the very first page on the general forum where I am sure people may or may not pay attention to what group it was posted under. This all falls under 'knowing your audience'.
Regardless of what forum it is under, my point still stands. If this is a basic, beginners guide to Bulking, in my opinion it should include the generally recommended starting BF% to begin your bulk!
Even though it is on the main forum page it does list the Board in which it was posted under.
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Overall, I'd agree with the majority of the points and feel like this is a comprehensive overview for individuals who are new to bulking, lean bulking, etc to at least get started.
I think it can be expanded by tapping into the psychological side which seems to get left out very often. It also seems to be an area where people struggle quite a bit.0 -
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BUMP FOR LATER0
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madrose0715 wrote: »
"you should bulk because you don't have any muscle- because 90%of you are muscle-less"
I highly doubt that 90% of the people here are at a place where they need to bulk.
The problem with:
""you should bulk because you don't have any muscle- because 90%of you are muscle-less"
is it tells the readers that you do not know the audience who is reading this thread. You are in essence, telling men and women who are obese and morbidly obese that they should not cut but bulk because they are muscle-less. Wrong.
For what you are calling a beginner's guide to bulking, you have alienated alot of people with that comment because until someone who is obese, morbidly obese and even some classified as overweight, has done their cut to a more appropriate body fat level doing a bulk first would be likely medically unadvisable at best and physchologically and physically damaging at worst.
[/quote]
I would sincerely hope people have enough common sense to know that if they're >15-16% BF or fall into the 'obese' category, that they should not be bulking.
As mentioned, the forum is listed and if they can't understand that this is a post for bulking/gaining weight I think there are bigger issues.
It's obviously a post for bulking and is in the appropriate section, that's enough of a basis covered to distinguish which audience this is intended for.0 -
Finally caught up. I agree overall, but disagree with the points already mentioned. You've had great success. Well done.0
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beastcompany wrote: »I would sincerely hope people have enough common sense to know that if they're >15-16% BF or fall into the 'obese' category, that they should not be bulking.
As mentioned, the forum is listed and if they can't understand that this is a post for bulking/gaining weight I think there are bigger issues.
It's obviously a post for bulking and is in the appropriate section, that's enough of a basis covered to distinguish which audience this is intended for.
Is that 15-16% for men and women? Because if I have to wait until I'm 15-16% BF to try to add some muscle, I may as well just throw in the towel now and accept my muscle-less life.
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I like this post. After a lot of research and reading this is pretty much what I have been doing. I've had a hard time sticking with the higher calories but when I do I see results.
Not sure I'll make to the 6 months mark but I'm trying to keep my mind in the right place.
Good read for beginners0 -
your rather good advice is lost when you open with bullsh!t crap like thisWhy?
Because 9/10 of you starting your fitness journey do not have any reasonable amount of muscle mass that would justify you cutting or losing weight.
I don't say this to be discouraging, it's just the truth.
If you don't have the muscle to show, what do you expect to look like when you lose body fat?
it's insulting and insipid.
"you should bulk because you don't have any muscle- because 90%of you are muscle-less"
I highly doubt that 90% of the people here are at a place where they need to bulk.
I do agree that the statement above wasn't necessary. I think throwing around that 90% number is a bit out there because we are assuming that the majority of people are falling into that skinny fat range where it gets tricky. On BB we see that a lot but on here it's mostly we're to fat to bulk or lack lbm to cut. More so the to fat part.
The post isn't bad. It has good general information. You mentioned Alan in the macronutrimacronutrient timing situation, you should have linked the threads on timing he has ono BB's nutrition section. It's a long read but worth it.
Anyone really serious I do recommend usually, if you're coming fromantic that side and have spent any time in the fat loss section or even around here then you might know the author, Waldo.
http://strengthunbound.com/bulking-complete-guide-for-beginners/
agreed.You certainly haven't hurt anyone's feeling here and I can confidently say JRocks feeling definitely weren't hurt. It was just pointing out a statement that was disagreed with. You were also told it was good advice. Don't harp on the negative. This isn't the Misc.
agreed.is it tells the readers that you do not know the audience who is reading this thread. You are in essence, telling men and women who are obese and morbidly obese that they should not cut but bulk because they are muscle-less. Wrong.
For what you are calling a beginner's guide to bulking, you have alienated alot of people with that comment because until someone who is obese, morbidly obese and even some classified as overweight, has done their cut to a more appropriate body fat level doing a bulk first would be likely medically unadvisable at best and physchologically and physically damaging at worst.
despite the fact I didn't agree with the opening- I have to agree- he was speaking to a specific audience- and it is the gaining weight section.
I just didn't care of that opener- but- as it has been pointed out- most of his stuff is solid.
For women- specifically- I wouldn't bulk at anything over 25%- it's just to much work to cut- and you deal with significantly more mental side impacts of "I'm fat" that feeling is stronger- and more pronounced.0 -
despite the fact I didn't agree with the opening- I have to agree- he was speaking to a specific audience- and it is the gaining weight section.
I just didn't care of that opener- but- as it has been pointed out- most of his stuff is solid.
For women- specifically- I wouldn't bulk at anything over 25%- it's just to much work to cut- and you deal with significantly more mental side impacts of "I'm fat" that feeling is stronger- and more pronounced.
You point out the 25% cutoff b/c it's too much work to cut after, but what would you say to someone who just can't seem to lose fat? I've tried and tried but am getting nowhere except for the occasional 2 lbs lost then gained again shortly. I've dieted much of my life due mostly to the fact that I didn't understand that I was skinny fat and it was "lean" that I was seeking, not "skinny". So naturally I did it on very low cal dieting and barely getting out of bed because I was so wrecked. If I had known better, I would never have done that, but there was no internet, just stupid magazines telling me to eat 1200 and me being an overachiever and thus going for 800. Sigh. So now, I'm hitting the gym with a muscle-growing workout while trying to lose fat and just spinning my wheels. I finally decided this week that I just can't do it any longer and I'd rather eat at maintenance and above, to try to build some muscle. And I know it won't be easy, but neither has what I've been doing with no results. I don't know what my bf% is, only that I have muffintop, belly, thighs, and back fat that I can grab and squish and I hate it, but I love my biceps which have somehow grown since training, and I'd like to have that same feeling about my legs and chest, etc, but I don't think those larger muscles will grow accidentally, so I need to feed them. The hope is that I can add some muscle that will help make cutting easier. I know as a woman I can't expect too much muscle gain, but I always had twigs for arms and legs in my skinny fat quest (the skinny was limbs, the fat was trunk), so I think I have a lot of untapped potential that might help me gain well in those areas.
Tl;dr, I might be part of that "90%" he was talking to, having been skinny fat most of my life. Is bulking "worth a try" for a HUnGRY overfat female who is totally stuck in her weight Loss, going nowhere fast?
P.s. Also I am recovering from ankle, calf problem, so I can't run right now either (which I love), so with no chance of cardio (even jumping jacks etc bother calves), might make it a good time to focus on muscle building too, right??0 -
FromHereOnOut wrote: »
Is bulking "worth a try" for a HUnGRY overfat female who is totally stuck in her weight Loss, going nowhere fast?
"Bulking" may not be the right terminology as it is generally associated with eating excess calories, to ensure optimum muscle growth, so if you already have "Spare Fat" then be wary of adding too many calories. As for training to gain muscle mass and as a technique to lose fat, . . . definitely follow the weight lifting regime above . . . with progressive overloading . . . and the body recompositioning will happen. Fat stores will supply the additional calories if you eat at just below maintenance, so muscular growth (hypertrophy) will still take place.0 -
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