Can You Be Overweight and Healthy?
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sheepotato wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »sheepotato wrote: »
Important for what?That's the issue, at best we could do stratified sampling, but we'd have to pre-qual data, because bf% is still wholly unknown as an important parameter to most medical professionals.
Or, as a possibly unrelated question...What do you think they don't know?
(Asking, not baiting.)
BF% seems to be people's biggest gripe with the 'one size fits all' BMI scale, athletic people are always 'unhealthy' on it.
No, not always. Most women and some men athletes would not be overweight by BMI. And some athletes also carry a BF% in the unhealthy range.
You are right, I shouldn't have used the word 'always' I was tired when I wrote that. I should have said 'often' or 'usually.' My bad. I try not to speak in absolutes when I can avoid it. I was just saying that BMI's are a rule of thumb, but not a catch all for health. More specifically why BF% would be a huge factor in any BMI related study.
I think most people, and certainly most researchers, would agree. But there isn't population data on BF% available to accurately determine cutoffs. BMI is an easy and cheap measurement. BF is not.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »sheepotato wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »sheepotato wrote: »
Important for what?That's the issue, at best we could do stratified sampling, but we'd have to pre-qual data, because bf% is still wholly unknown as an important parameter to most medical professionals.
Or, as a possibly unrelated question...What do you think they don't know?
(Asking, not baiting.)
BF% seems to be people's biggest gripe with the 'one size fits all' BMI scale, athletic people are always 'unhealthy' on it.
No, not always. Most women and some men athletes would not be overweight by BMI. And some athletes also carry a BF% in the unhealthy range.
You are right, I shouldn't have used the word 'always' I was tired when I wrote that. I should have said 'often' or 'usually.' My bad. I try not to speak in absolutes when I can avoid it. I was just saying that BMI's are a rule of thumb, but not a catch all for health. More specifically why BF% would be a huge factor in any BMI related study.
I think most people, and certainly most researchers, would agree. But there isn't population data on BF% available to accurately determine cutoffs. BMI is an easy and cheap measurement. BF is not.
Very true, and likely one of the main reasons there just isn't much conclusive research.0 -
In general, most of them haven't gotten the memo on bf%.
i get that. It says they're obese when they aren't. They have a beef there.sheepotato wrote: »
Important for what?That's the issue, at best we could do stratified sampling, but we'd have to pre-qual data, because bf% is still wholly unknown as an important parameter to most medical professionals.
Or, as a possibly unrelated question...What do you think they don't know?
(Asking, not baiting.)
BF% seems to be people's biggest gripe with the 'one size fits all' BMI scale, athletic people are always 'unhealthy' on it.
I'm wondering what dbmata thinks the doctors don't know...or in what way additional knowledge would help. I just don't understand the point, I think.
My doctor is solid, but he's got a sports medicine focus. Other doctors actually use the BMI chart to give advice. That's up there with killing a rooster and reading its intestines.
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In general, most of them haven't gotten the memo on bf%.
i get that. It says they're obese when they aren't. They have a beef there.sheepotato wrote: »
Important for what?That's the issue, at best we could do stratified sampling, but we'd have to pre-qual data, because bf% is still wholly unknown as an important parameter to most medical professionals.
Or, as a possibly unrelated question...What do you think they don't know?
(Asking, not baiting.)
BF% seems to be people's biggest gripe with the 'one size fits all' BMI scale, athletic people are always 'unhealthy' on it.
I'm wondering what dbmata thinks the doctors don't know...or in what way additional knowledge would help. I just don't understand the point, I think.
My doctor is solid, but he's got a sports medicine focus. Other doctors actually use the BMI chart to give advice. That's up there with killing a rooster and reading its intestines.
I wonder how true this is on an individual basis. I know insurance companies use it, and doctors giving general advice to populations, but how many doctors would really ask a person that was overweight but fit and healthy to lose weight simply to get in their BMI down? I doubt anyone here really has an answer to that, but I doubt it would be many.
If the BMI is high but the person is not fit and healthy, that would be a different story.0 -
When I was getting medical treatment at MIT, the BMI was actually the standard from which they gave advice.
That was also the standard in the UC Davis medical system, back when I used them in the late 90s early 00s. Hopefully UCD has gotten out of the stone age.0 -
In general, most of them haven't gotten the memo on bf%.
i get that. It says they're obese when they aren't. They have a beef there.sheepotato wrote: »
Important for what?That's the issue, at best we could do stratified sampling, but we'd have to pre-qual data, because bf% is still wholly unknown as an important parameter to most medical professionals.
Or, as a possibly unrelated question...What do you think they don't know?
(Asking, not baiting.)
BF% seems to be people's biggest gripe with the 'one size fits all' BMI scale, athletic people are always 'unhealthy' on it.
I'm wondering what dbmata thinks the doctors don't know...or in what way additional knowledge would help. I just don't understand the point, I think.
My doctor is solid, but he's got a sports medicine focus. Other doctors actually use the BMI chart to give advice. That's up there with killing a rooster and reading its intestines.
My doctor gives me advice such as 'squeeze a lemon on your salad instead of using dressing' or 'if you eat a cookie instead of a salad you would need to walk around the block 3 times to burn it off.' I have no idea where he comes up with that crap or how he thinks it would ever be helpful to someone so I just sort of say 'okay thanks.'
I like him as a doctor because he doesn't make guesses, he prefers to run tests and really that's what you are paying a doctor for. However, personality wise I find him a little grating.
The day I met my obgyn she told me (no questions asked) that I should eat less sugar. I said most of my sugar comes from fruit, so she said well cut back on fruit. I did not. Then she gushed about how happy she was months later with my gestational diabetes results (they were half of the normal range.) She told me 'you must not eat sugar very often.' Yeah, thanks for that.
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So he's tested squeezing a lemon, walking around the block and found it fully valid?0
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heh, so he doesn't test everything in his practice. lol. I've actually been asked to move to another practice after asking a doctor to restrict his advice and commentary to things he's actually been trained on and has at least a basic understanding of.
(In relation to unsolicited dietary advice.)0 -
sheepotato wrote: »
In general, most of them haven't gotten the memo on bf%.
i get that. It says they're obese when they aren't. They have a beef there.sheepotato wrote: »
Important for what?That's the issue, at best we could do stratified sampling, but we'd have to pre-qual data, because bf% is still wholly unknown as an important parameter to most medical professionals.
Or, as a possibly unrelated question...What do you think they don't know?
(Asking, not baiting.)
BF% seems to be people's biggest gripe with the 'one size fits all' BMI scale, athletic people are always 'unhealthy' on it.
I'm wondering what dbmata thinks the doctors don't know...or in what way additional knowledge would help. I just don't understand the point, I think.
My doctor is solid, but he's got a sports medicine focus. Other doctors actually use the BMI chart to give advice. That's up there with killing a rooster and reading its intestines.
My doctor gives me advice such as 'squeeze a lemon on your salad instead of using dressing' or 'if you eat a cookie instead of a salad you would need to walk around the block 3 times to burn it off.' I have no idea where he comes up with that crap or how he thinks it would ever be helpful to someone so I just sort of say 'okay thanks.'
I like him as a doctor because he doesn't make guesses, he prefers to run tests and really that's what you are paying a doctor for. However, personality wise I find him a little grating.
The day I met my obgyn she told me (no questions asked) that I should eat less sugar. I said most of my sugar comes from fruit, so she said well cut back on fruit. I did not. Then she gushed about how happy she was months later with my gestational diabetes results (they were half of the normal range.) She told me 'you must not eat sugar very often.' Yeah, thanks for that.
My doctor never says anything about my weight, even though I am overweight. But, all my tests have come back okay so she doesn't see it as a problem. I asked her if she thought I should lose weight and her answer was "Sure, if you want to." Perhaps I should have asked if she thought I needed to lose.0 -
heh, so he doesn't test everything in his practice. lol. I've actually been asked to move to another practice after asking a doctor to restrict his advice and commentary to things he's actually been trained on and has at least a basic understanding of.
(In relation to unsolicited dietary advice.)
Yeah, I would have found another doctor if I didn't like him (in the sole function of a doctor) so I just put up with his unsolicited advice and chalk it up to his bad bedside manner.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
My doctor never says anything about my weight, even though I am overweight. But, all my tests have come back okay so she doesn't see it as a problem. I asked her if she thought I should lose weight and her answer was "Sure, if you want to." Perhaps I should have asked if she thought I needed to lose.
I never had doctors comment on my weight until I got to my highest weight, and I hovered in the overweight range for a while (I put on weight over the course of several years) before hitting 'obese.' (Which is 195 for my height) To be fair, I never asked if I should lose weight and once I reached 200 it became a given that my weight was a problem and up for discussion no matter what I was coming in for. Perhaps it's because of the prevalence of obesity that doctors are not very concerned with 'overweight' people as much these days.
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OK, I get it now.
In general, most of them haven't gotten the memo on bf%.
i get that. It says they're obese when they aren't. They have a beef there.sheepotato wrote: »
Important for what?That's the issue, at best we could do stratified sampling, but we'd have to pre-qual data, because bf% is still wholly unknown as an important parameter to most medical professionals.
Or, as a possibly unrelated question...What do you think they don't know?
(Asking, not baiting.)
BF% seems to be people's biggest gripe with the 'one size fits all' BMI scale, athletic people are always 'unhealthy' on it.
I'm wondering what dbmata thinks the doctors don't know...or in what way additional knowledge would help. I just don't understand the point, I think.
My doctor is solid, but he's got a sports medicine focus. Other doctors actually use the BMI chart to give advice. That's up there with killing a rooster and reading its intestines.
I don't really agree but I don't disagree and it's too boring to type it all out.
Those who are serious about physical fitness should be referred to sports medicine specialists. In total agreement there.0 -
sheepotato wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
My doctor never says anything about my weight, even though I am overweight. But, all my tests have come back okay so she doesn't see it as a problem. I asked her if she thought I should lose weight and her answer was "Sure, if you want to." Perhaps I should have asked if she thought I needed to lose.
I never had doctors comment on my weight until I got to my highest weight, and I hovered in the overweight range for a while (I put on weight over the course of several years) before hitting 'obese.' (Which is 195 for my height) To be fair, I never asked if I should lose weight and once I reached 200 it became a given that my weight was a problem and up for discussion no matter what I was coming in for. Perhaps it's because of the prevalence of obesity that doctors are not very concerned with 'overweight' people as much these days.
Perhaps, or maybe it's because my doctor doesn't look only at BMI but at the individual. I hope it's the latter.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »mom3over40 wrote: »I just found that even remaining (or maintaining) is a difficult thing to do as we age.
Several years ago, I was in normal weight range. Then, without doing anything different, I slowly gained to the overweight range. Then, my doctor decided to test my A1C and I would be considered pre-diabetic if my blood work shows the same range in 6 months.
My point is, if we don't pay attention, we head the wrong direction. We lose bone mass, muscle mass and our metabolic rate drop. I guess you might be able to remain overweight and remain healthy but even that requires attention.
You see, from those weight-training post I read, those muscular ones are likely to be overweight according to BMI. But then, they will never ask this question...
But I think that is the point of the article. Not aging women, but that it's lifestyle that matters most for those who are overweight when it comes to maintaining health.
As a soon to be 51 yo woman I can tell you that being at a healthy weight won't always prevent the things you mention above if you have a poor diet and/or inactive lifestyle. Many friends my age who have never been overweight suffer bone loss, insulin resistance or diabetes, high cholesterol or BP, etc.
Exactly.
It's funny how so many people on MFP scream about correlation not being the same as causation when someone posts a study on sugar being linked to a poor health outcome, or some other such thing, but when it comes to being overweight they suddenly believe that correlation = causation? There are plenty of healthy overweight people, and plenty of unhealthy normal weight people. Population studies linking excess weight to diabetes etc. do not determine or predict individual outcomes. One of my least healthy friends (high cholesterol and osteoporosis (not osteopenia) and she's only 43) has never been overweight and has always been very careful (borderline obsessive) to have a healthy diet, and one of my other friends who is very overweight has excellent metabolic numbers and is a triathlete who is as strong as a horse.
What to watch out for is true obesity (remember, normal BMI used to include 27), lifestyle issues, and whether the person is on a gaining trend.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »mom3over40 wrote: »I just found that even remaining (or maintaining) is a difficult thing to do as we age.
Several years ago, I was in normal weight range. Then, without doing anything different, I slowly gained to the overweight range. Then, my doctor decided to test my A1C and I would be considered pre-diabetic if my blood work shows the same range in 6 months.
My point is, if we don't pay attention, we head the wrong direction. We lose bone mass, muscle mass and our metabolic rate drop. I guess you might be able to remain overweight and remain healthy but even that requires attention.
You see, from those weight-training post I read, those muscular ones are likely to be overweight according to BMI. But then, they will never ask this question...
But I think that is the point of the article. Not aging women, but that it's lifestyle that matters most for those who are overweight when it comes to maintaining health.
As a soon to be 51 yo woman I can tell you that being at a healthy weight won't always prevent the things you mention above if you have a poor diet and/or inactive lifestyle. Many friends my age who have never been overweight suffer bone loss, insulin resistance or diabetes, high cholesterol or BP, etc.
Exactly.
It's funny how so many people on MFP scream about correlation not being the same as causation when someone posts a study on sugar being linked to a poor health outcome, or some other such thing, but when it comes to being overweight they suddenly believe that correlation = causation? There are plenty of healthy overweight people, and plenty of unhealthy normal weight people. Population studies linking excess weight to diabetes etc. do not determine or predict individual outcomes. One of my least healthy friends (high cholesterol and osteoporosis (not osteopenia) and she's only 43) has never been overweight and has always been very careful (borderline obsessive) to have a healthy diet, and one of my other friends who is very overweight has excellent metabolic numbers and is a triathlete who is as strong as a horse.
What to watch out for is true obesity (remember, normal BMI used to include 27), lifestyle issues, and whether the person is on a gaining trend.
Yeah, changing the habits that made me overweight did not make me suddenly revert me back to a healthy weight overnight. People see me and assume I am mainlining pizza or poptarts on a daily basis. I've been eating a healthy balanced diet for a few years now, I am just eating a lot of the healthy food because don't want to lose weight quickly. I put it on slowly, so it should come off slowly.
I know what my personal problem was (liquid calories mainly beer and soda), but I am not going to say that anyone else should stop drinking beer or soda. Who knows what they did to gain weight? Not I.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »mom3over40 wrote: »I just found that even remaining (or maintaining) is a difficult thing to do as we age.
Several years ago, I was in normal weight range. Then, without doing anything different, I slowly gained to the overweight range. Then, my doctor decided to test my A1C and I would be considered pre-diabetic if my blood work shows the same range in 6 months.
My point is, if we don't pay attention, we head the wrong direction. We lose bone mass, muscle mass and our metabolic rate drop. I guess you might be able to remain overweight and remain healthy but even that requires attention.
You see, from those weight-training post I read, those muscular ones are likely to be overweight according to BMI. But then, they will never ask this question...
But I think that is the point of the article. Not aging women, but that it's lifestyle that matters most for those who are overweight when it comes to maintaining health.
As a soon to be 51 yo woman I can tell you that being at a healthy weight won't always prevent the things you mention above if you have a poor diet and/or inactive lifestyle. Many friends my age who have never been overweight suffer bone loss, insulin resistance or diabetes, high cholesterol or BP, etc.
Exactly.
It's funny how so many people on MFP scream about correlation not being the same as causation when someone posts a study on sugar being linked to a poor health outcome, or some other such thing, but when it comes to being overweight they suddenly believe that correlation = causation? There are plenty of healthy overweight people, and plenty of unhealthy normal weight people. Population studies linking excess weight to diabetes etc. do not determine or predict individual outcomes. One of my least healthy friends (high cholesterol and osteoporosis (not osteopenia) and she's only 43) has never been overweight and has always been very careful (borderline obsessive) to have a healthy diet, and one of my other friends who is very overweight has excellent metabolic numbers and is a triathlete who is as strong as a horse.
What to watch out for is true obesity (remember, normal BMI used to include 27), lifestyle issues, and whether the person is on a gaining trend.
I wish it was still 27 so I could be in the healthy range again. I guess I'm just old school when it comes to BMI.
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Its a very interesting article. Thank you for sharing it. Definitely worth giving some extra thought to what the article is suggesting.0
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Yes! I'm overweight but I have excellent blood pressure, pulse, HDL, LDL, triglycerides, I even passed all the health tests to donate bone marrow to a cancer patient in need of a bone marrow transplant. I think I'm healthier than some of my skinner peers. That said, I'm still trying to eat healthy and loose weight because extra weight probably isn't good for my body as I get older.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »paulawatkins1974 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Can you smoke and not develop lung cancer? Definately! But the risk is much higher, so why risk it? Being overweight increases the risk of heart disease and diabetes, so why risk it?
Does it really? The article seems to suggest that it's not always so.
What the article is stating is that as long as you are in good metabolic health you should be fine, and yes you could be overweight with a great metabolic health. But it also does state that the higher you slide on the BMI scale the higher your risk is of developing metabolic issues.
You could be overweight but active enough to counteract it, you could be overweight but lucky enough to have good genetics, you could be overweight by BMI but with a good fat distribution or a larger build, you could be overweight ever so slightly that you are actually at a good weight for you despite of what BMI says. Yes, all of these are possible. But if all things were equal (genetic predisposition, activity level, fat distribution.. etc) I believe a person who is within the normal range (not necessarily according to BMI) would be healthier than someone who has more extra weight.
I don't neccesarily agree that someone who is of a normal bmi is healthier than a different person who is overweight. I do think a person of a normal bmi would be healthier than themself overweight. ex, I may be overweight and healthier than a friend who is of normal weight. But I'd be healthier not overweight than I am right now.
Why would you be? And, if you are healthy now, how? How can you be healthier than healthy?
I answered what I think. The reason I THINK this is because I KNOW I'm healthier than I was 50 lbs ago. better blood work, not as tired, sick less often etc. I guess it's possible it's a coincidence? And yes I think I can be healthier. The numbers can still be better than they are. Just like I can be happy or ecstatic (happier) angry or in a rage (angrier) sick witha cold, sick with influenza (sicker)0 -
paulawatkins1974 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »paulawatkins1974 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Can you smoke and not develop lung cancer? Definately! But the risk is much higher, so why risk it? Being overweight increases the risk of heart disease and diabetes, so why risk it?
Does it really? The article seems to suggest that it's not always so.
What the article is stating is that as long as you are in good metabolic health you should be fine, and yes you could be overweight with a great metabolic health. But it also does state that the higher you slide on the BMI scale the higher your risk is of developing metabolic issues.
You could be overweight but active enough to counteract it, you could be overweight but lucky enough to have good genetics, you could be overweight by BMI but with a good fat distribution or a larger build, you could be overweight ever so slightly that you are actually at a good weight for you despite of what BMI says. Yes, all of these are possible. But if all things were equal (genetic predisposition, activity level, fat distribution.. etc) I believe a person who is within the normal range (not necessarily according to BMI) would be healthier than someone who has more extra weight.
I don't neccesarily agree that someone who is of a normal bmi is healthier than a different person who is overweight. I do think a person of a normal bmi would be healthier than themself overweight. ex, I may be overweight and healthier than a friend who is of normal weight. But I'd be healthier not overweight than I am right now.
Why would you be? And, if you are healthy now, how? How can you be healthier than healthy?
I answered what I think. The reason I THINK this is because I KNOW I'm healthier than I was 50 lbs ago. better blood work, not as tired, sick less often etc. I guess it's possible it's a coincidence? And yes I think I can be healthier. The numbers can still be better than they are. Just like I can be happy or ecstatic (happier) angry or in a rage (angrier) sick witha cold, sick with influenza (sicker)
Oh, okay. I guess I didn't realize you were talking about yourself since you used "you" instead of "I". I assumed you meant in general.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »paulawatkins1974 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »paulawatkins1974 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Can you smoke and not develop lung cancer? Definately! But the risk is much higher, so why risk it? Being overweight increases the risk of heart disease and diabetes, so why risk it?
Does it really? The article seems to suggest that it's not always so.
What the article is stating is that as long as you are in good metabolic health you should be fine, and yes you could be overweight with a great metabolic health. But it also does state that the higher you slide on the BMI scale the higher your risk is of developing metabolic issues.
You could be overweight but active enough to counteract it, you could be overweight but lucky enough to have good genetics, you could be overweight by BMI but with a good fat distribution or a larger build, you could be overweight ever so slightly that you are actually at a good weight for you despite of what BMI says. Yes, all of these are possible. But if all things were equal (genetic predisposition, activity level, fat distribution.. etc) I believe a person who is within the normal range (not necessarily according to BMI) would be healthier than someone who has more extra weight.
I don't neccesarily agree that someone who is of a normal bmi is healthier than a different person who is overweight. I do think a person of a normal bmi would be healthier than themself overweight. ex, I may be overweight and healthier than a friend who is of normal weight. But I'd be healthier not overweight than I am right now.
Why would you be? And, if you are healthy now, how? How can you be healthier than healthy?
I answered what I think. The reason I THINK this is because I KNOW I'm healthier than I was 50 lbs ago. better blood work, not as tired, sick less often etc. I guess it's possible it's a coincidence? And yes I think I can be healthier. The numbers can still be better than they are. Just like I can be happy or ecstatic (happier) angry or in a rage (angrier) sick witha cold, sick with influenza (sicker)
Oh, okay. I guess I didn't realize you were talking about yourself since you used "you" instead of "I". I assumed you meant in general.
I don't neccesarily agree that someone who is of a normal bmi is healthier than a different person who is overweight. I do think a person of a normal bmi would be healthier than themself overweight. ex, I may be overweight and healthier than a friend who is of normal weight. But I'd be healthier not overweight than I am right now.
^ This is what I said. I didn't say "you" even once. This is my opinion.0 -
Calliope610 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Calliope610 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I'm not sure anyone is reading the article so I'm posting it here. It's long, so still not sure how many will read it. It raises some interesting points, I think.
By Robert H. Shmerling M.D.
Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center
There's little question that the current epidemic of obesity has come with a staggering cost to public health. Current estimates suggest that obesity-related illness accounts for $150 billion and 300,000 premature deaths each year in the United States.
The number of conditions linked to excess weight is large and growing. They include:
Type 2 diabetes
High blood pressure (hypertension)
Heart disease
Stroke
Certain types of cancer
Impaired sleep
Arthritis
But can people who carry extra weight still be healthy? Are you healthy if you're overweight or obese but physically active, have a normal blood pressure and good "metabolic numbers" (including cholesterol levels and blood sugar)? To some degree, the answers depend on our definitions of "overweight" and "obese." And there is more than just physical health at stake in the answers. Increasingly, employers or insurers provide discounts for "leanness." And, many overweight and obese people face subtle (and not-so-subtle) discrimination.
Confusion Between Terms
When it comes to discussions of health and weight, overweight people and obese people are often lumped together. Consider this quote from a recent news summary (emphasis added) that mixes the concepts of overweight and obese in the same sentence:
NBC Nightly News reported that new research suggests that individuals cannot be simultaneously overweight and physically fit. NBC's Chief Medical Editor Dr. Nancy Snyderman said that the research indicates that "there is no such thing as healthy obesity."
One of the most common (and commonly studied) ways to define healthy weight is the body mass index (BMI), which adjusts weight based on height. While it's not perfect (especially for the very young, the very old, those who are particularly muscular or women who are pregnant), it is a good place to start.
Normal weight is a BMI between 18.5 and 24.9.
Overweight is a BMI between 25 and 29.
Obesity is a BMI of 30 or greater.
In the United States, roughly a third of people are currently overweight. Another third are obese. These proportions are much higher than in prior decades.
Is "Fat But Fit" a Myth?
Two recent studies "weigh in" on this question.
The first one was published in early 2013 in the medical journal, JAMA. It analyzed data from nearly 100 studies and included almost 3 million people. It found that people who were overweight were 6% less likely to die during the average study period than people whose weight was considered normal; the obese (and extremely obese) died earlier.
This study looked only at death rates, not fitness or even how well the overweight people felt. Still, the results were a bit surprising. The study authors suggested several possible explanations, including:
Being overweight may lead to more frequent doctor visits and, perhaps, better medical care.
Having some extra body weight "in reserve" may be beneficial for a person with a serious illness or chronic disease.
The metabolic effects of extra body fat are somehow protective.
It's even possible that some people in the normal weight group had lost weight due to illness (including undiagnosed cancer) that lead to their deaths. So, despite the results of this study, being overweight doesn't necessarily have a "protective" effect. Rather, the findings could be explained by a higher death rate among those of normal weight.
The second study combined data from prior research that included more than 60,000 people. It concluded that "there is no healthy pattern of increased weight." However, this study did not find higher rates of death or heart and blood vessel events among overweight people, as long as their cholesterol, blood pressure and blood sugar levels were in a healthy range. (High cholesterol, blood pressure and blood sugar are some of the conditions that can lead to metabolic syndrome, which increases your risk of heart disease and diabetes.)
The researchers found that:
On average, the higher the BMI, the higher the blood pressure and the greater the tendency toward diabetes (as measured by the body's resistance to insulin, which is considered a key first step toward developing the disease).
The higher the BMI, the lower the HDL (the "good" type of cholesterol that tends to lower heart attack and stroke risk).
The health effects of excess weight vary for different people, perhaps due to genetics.
Obesity was linked with an increased risk of death and cardiovascular events.
People of any weight who have high cholesterol, blood pressure or blood sugar tend to have higher rates of death, as well as heart and blood-vessel disease.
Back to top
The Bottom Line
Avoiding obesity is important. But these studies suggest that you can expect to have a normal lifespan even if you're overweight, as long as you are in good metabolic health. But, keep in mind that the health impact of being overweight likely depends on which way your weight is headed. Rising BMI is linked with an increase in heart and blood vessel risk factors (including metabolic syndrome).
What about the idea that you can be obese but fit? Unfortunately, compelling evidence suggests that obesity is linked with an increased risk of death and heart events, even if one's metabolic and heart health numbers are good.
The challenge for people who are overweight is to avoid gaining even more weight and becoming metabolically unhealthy, obese or both.
So, I guess the answer is "no".
This question is kinda like "can you be a "healthy" drug addict or a "healthy" alcoholic?". Yeah, up to a point, until the contributing health risks out weigh your "health".
The answer to what? The subject line asked whether it was possible to be overweight and unhealthy, not obese and healthy. As the article mentions, the two are not the same thing and may have different answers.
No, your subject line is "Can You Be Overweight and Healthy?". And the answer is still "no".
And on what do you base your answer? Clearly, not the article.0 -
Calliope610 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Calliope610 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I'm not sure anyone is reading the article so I'm posting it here. It's long, so still not sure how many will read it. It raises some interesting points, I think.
By Robert H. Shmerling M.D.
Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center
There's little question that the current epidemic of obesity has come with a staggering cost to public health. Current estimates suggest that obesity-related illness accounts for $150 billion and 300,000 premature deaths each year in the United States.
The number of conditions linked to excess weight is large and growing. They include:
Type 2 diabetes
High blood pressure (hypertension)
Heart disease
Stroke
Certain types of cancer
Impaired sleep
Arthritis
But can people who carry extra weight still be healthy? Are you healthy if you're overweight or obese but physically active, have a normal blood pressure and good "metabolic numbers" (including cholesterol levels and blood sugar)? To some degree, the answers depend on our definitions of "overweight" and "obese." And there is more than just physical health at stake in the answers. Increasingly, employers or insurers provide discounts for "leanness." And, many overweight and obese people face subtle (and not-so-subtle) discrimination.
Confusion Between Terms
When it comes to discussions of health and weight, overweight people and obese people are often lumped together. Consider this quote from a recent news summary (emphasis added) that mixes the concepts of overweight and obese in the same sentence:
NBC Nightly News reported that new research suggests that individuals cannot be simultaneously overweight and physically fit. NBC's Chief Medical Editor Dr. Nancy Snyderman said that the research indicates that "there is no such thing as healthy obesity."
One of the most common (and commonly studied) ways to define healthy weight is the body mass index (BMI), which adjusts weight based on height. While it's not perfect (especially for the very young, the very old, those who are particularly muscular or women who are pregnant), it is a good place to start.
Normal weight is a BMI between 18.5 and 24.9.
Overweight is a BMI between 25 and 29.
Obesity is a BMI of 30 or greater.
In the United States, roughly a third of people are currently overweight. Another third are obese. These proportions are much higher than in prior decades.
Is "Fat But Fit" a Myth?
Two recent studies "weigh in" on this question.
The first one was published in early 2013 in the medical journal, JAMA. It analyzed data from nearly 100 studies and included almost 3 million people. It found that people who were overweight were 6% less likely to die during the average study period than people whose weight was considered normal; the obese (and extremely obese) died earlier.
This study looked only at death rates, not fitness or even how well the overweight people felt. Still, the results were a bit surprising. The study authors suggested several possible explanations, including:
Being overweight may lead to more frequent doctor visits and, perhaps, better medical care.
Having some extra body weight "in reserve" may be beneficial for a person with a serious illness or chronic disease.
The metabolic effects of extra body fat are somehow protective.
It's even possible that some people in the normal weight group had lost weight due to illness (including undiagnosed cancer) that lead to their deaths. So, despite the results of this study, being overweight doesn't necessarily have a "protective" effect. Rather, the findings could be explained by a higher death rate among those of normal weight.
The second study combined data from prior research that included more than 60,000 people. It concluded that "there is no healthy pattern of increased weight." However, this study did not find higher rates of death or heart and blood vessel events among overweight people, as long as their cholesterol, blood pressure and blood sugar levels were in a healthy range. (High cholesterol, blood pressure and blood sugar are some of the conditions that can lead to metabolic syndrome, which increases your risk of heart disease and diabetes.)
The researchers found that:
On average, the higher the BMI, the higher the blood pressure and the greater the tendency toward diabetes (as measured by the body's resistance to insulin, which is considered a key first step toward developing the disease).
The higher the BMI, the lower the HDL (the "good" type of cholesterol that tends to lower heart attack and stroke risk).
The health effects of excess weight vary for different people, perhaps due to genetics.
Obesity was linked with an increased risk of death and cardiovascular events.
People of any weight who have high cholesterol, blood pressure or blood sugar tend to have higher rates of death, as well as heart and blood-vessel disease.
Back to top
The Bottom Line
Avoiding obesity is important. But these studies suggest that you can expect to have a normal lifespan even if you're overweight, as long as you are in good metabolic health. But, keep in mind that the health impact of being overweight likely depends on which way your weight is headed. Rising BMI is linked with an increase in heart and blood vessel risk factors (including metabolic syndrome).
What about the idea that you can be obese but fit? Unfortunately, compelling evidence suggests that obesity is linked with an increased risk of death and heart events, even if one's metabolic and heart health numbers are good.
The challenge for people who are overweight is to avoid gaining even more weight and becoming metabolically unhealthy, obese or both.
So, I guess the answer is "no".
This question is kinda like "can you be a "healthy" drug addict or a "healthy" alcoholic?". Yeah, up to a point, until the contributing health risks out weigh your "health".
The answer to what? The subject line asked whether it was possible to be overweight and unhealthy, not obese and healthy. As the article mentions, the two are not the same thing and may have different answers.
No, your subject line is "Can You Be Overweight and Healthy?". And the answer is still "no".
And on what do you base your answer? Clearly, not the article.
This was my takeaway from the article.
But these studies suggest that you can expect to have a normal lifespan even if you're overweight, as long as you are in good metabolic health. But, keep in mind that the health impact of being overweight likely depends on which way your weight is headed.0 -
sheepotato wrote: »
In general, most of them haven't gotten the memo on bf%.
i get that. It says they're obese when they aren't. They have a beef there.sheepotato wrote: »
Important for what?That's the issue, at best we could do stratified sampling, but we'd have to pre-qual data, because bf% is still wholly unknown as an important parameter to most medical professionals.
Or, as a possibly unrelated question...What do you think they don't know?
(Asking, not baiting.)
BF% seems to be people's biggest gripe with the 'one size fits all' BMI scale, athletic people are always 'unhealthy' on it.
I'm wondering what dbmata thinks the doctors don't know...or in what way additional knowledge would help. I just don't understand the point, I think.
My doctor is solid, but he's got a sports medicine focus. Other doctors actually use the BMI chart to give advice. That's up there with killing a rooster and reading its intestines.
My doctor gives me advice such as 'squeeze a lemon on your salad instead of using dressing' or 'if you eat a cookie instead of a salad you would need to walk around the block 3 times to burn it off.' I have no idea where he comes up with that crap or how he thinks it would ever be helpful to someone so I just sort of say 'okay thanks.'
I like him as a doctor because he doesn't make guesses, he prefers to run tests and really that's what you are paying a doctor for. However, personality wise I find him a little grating.
The day I met my obgyn she told me (no questions asked) that I should eat less sugar. I said most of my sugar comes from fruit, so she said well cut back on fruit. I did not. Then she gushed about how happy she was months later with my gestational diabetes results (they were half of the normal range.) She told me 'you must not eat sugar very often.' Yeah, thanks for that.
And did you tell her she was wrong? I sure hope so.0 -
Where do these hordes of healthy obese people hide, lemon?0
-
sheepotato wrote: »Calliope610 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Calliope610 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I'm not sure anyone is reading the article so I'm posting it here. It's long, so still not sure how many will read it. It raises some interesting points, I think.
By Robert H. Shmerling M.D.
Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center
There's little question that the current epidemic of obesity has come with a staggering cost to public health. Current estimates suggest that obesity-related illness accounts for $150 billion and 300,000 premature deaths each year in the United States.
The number of conditions linked to excess weight is large and growing. They include:
Type 2 diabetes
High blood pressure (hypertension)
Heart disease
Stroke
Certain types of cancer
Impaired sleep
Arthritis
But can people who carry extra weight still be healthy? Are you healthy if you're overweight or obese but physically active, have a normal blood pressure and good "metabolic numbers" (including cholesterol levels and blood sugar)? To some degree, the answers depend on our definitions of "overweight" and "obese." And there is more than just physical health at stake in the answers. Increasingly, employers or insurers provide discounts for "leanness." And, many overweight and obese people face subtle (and not-so-subtle) discrimination.
Confusion Between Terms
When it comes to discussions of health and weight, overweight people and obese people are often lumped together. Consider this quote from a recent news summary (emphasis added) that mixes the concepts of overweight and obese in the same sentence:
NBC Nightly News reported that new research suggests that individuals cannot be simultaneously overweight and physically fit. NBC's Chief Medical Editor Dr. Nancy Snyderman said that the research indicates that "there is no such thing as healthy obesity."
One of the most common (and commonly studied) ways to define healthy weight is the body mass index (BMI), which adjusts weight based on height. While it's not perfect (especially for the very young, the very old, those who are particularly muscular or women who are pregnant), it is a good place to start.
Normal weight is a BMI between 18.5 and 24.9.
Overweight is a BMI between 25 and 29.
Obesity is a BMI of 30 or greater.
In the United States, roughly a third of people are currently overweight. Another third are obese. These proportions are much higher than in prior decades.
Is "Fat But Fit" a Myth?
Two recent studies "weigh in" on this question.
The first one was published in early 2013 in the medical journal, JAMA. It analyzed data from nearly 100 studies and included almost 3 million people. It found that people who were overweight were 6% less likely to die during the average study period than people whose weight was considered normal; the obese (and extremely obese) died earlier.
This study looked only at death rates, not fitness or even how well the overweight people felt. Still, the results were a bit surprising. The study authors suggested several possible explanations, including:
Being overweight may lead to more frequent doctor visits and, perhaps, better medical care.
Having some extra body weight "in reserve" may be beneficial for a person with a serious illness or chronic disease.
The metabolic effects of extra body fat are somehow protective.
It's even possible that some people in the normal weight group had lost weight due to illness (including undiagnosed cancer) that lead to their deaths. So, despite the results of this study, being overweight doesn't necessarily have a "protective" effect. Rather, the findings could be explained by a higher death rate among those of normal weight.
The second study combined data from prior research that included more than 60,000 people. It concluded that "there is no healthy pattern of increased weight." However, this study did not find higher rates of death or heart and blood vessel events among overweight people, as long as their cholesterol, blood pressure and blood sugar levels were in a healthy range. (High cholesterol, blood pressure and blood sugar are some of the conditions that can lead to metabolic syndrome, which increases your risk of heart disease and diabetes.)
The researchers found that:
On average, the higher the BMI, the higher the blood pressure and the greater the tendency toward diabetes (as measured by the body's resistance to insulin, which is considered a key first step toward developing the disease).
The higher the BMI, the lower the HDL (the "good" type of cholesterol that tends to lower heart attack and stroke risk).
The health effects of excess weight vary for different people, perhaps due to genetics.
Obesity was linked with an increased risk of death and cardiovascular events.
People of any weight who have high cholesterol, blood pressure or blood sugar tend to have higher rates of death, as well as heart and blood-vessel disease.
Back to top
The Bottom Line
Avoiding obesity is important. But these studies suggest that you can expect to have a normal lifespan even if you're overweight, as long as you are in good metabolic health. But, keep in mind that the health impact of being overweight likely depends on which way your weight is headed. Rising BMI is linked with an increase in heart and blood vessel risk factors (including metabolic syndrome).
What about the idea that you can be obese but fit? Unfortunately, compelling evidence suggests that obesity is linked with an increased risk of death and heart events, even if one's metabolic and heart health numbers are good.
The challenge for people who are overweight is to avoid gaining even more weight and becoming metabolically unhealthy, obese or both.
So, I guess the answer is "no".
This question is kinda like "can you be a "healthy" drug addict or a "healthy" alcoholic?". Yeah, up to a point, until the contributing health risks out weigh your "health".
The answer to what? The subject line asked whether it was possible to be overweight and unhealthy, not obese and healthy. As the article mentions, the two are not the same thing and may have different answers.
No, your subject line is "Can You Be Overweight and Healthy?". And the answer is still "no".
And on what do you base your answer? Clearly, not the article.
This was my takeaway from the article.
But these studies suggest that you can expect to have a normal lifespan even if you're overweight, as long as you are in good metabolic health. But, keep in mind that the health impact of being overweight likely depends on which way your weight is headed.
Interesting, I got the opposite from that: if you're moderately overweight (not obese) and maintain at that weight, it is certainly possible to be be healthy as well.
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This content has been removed.
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Well, because I can go to the free weight section of my gym, or I can go to a local bb gym and find plenty of legitimately healthy overweight people.
Don't assume I'm confused by such simple terms. lol. It takes a legitimate $5 word to get me working.0
This discussion has been closed.
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