Define "healthy" food...
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i used to have one, until an older female on my friends list started getting a little creepy.jofjltncb6 wrote: »
oh so you were hoping to learn from someone with a grey avi were you?jofjltncb6 wrote: »
oh did you go to my profile to try and find dirt on me? exactly why i locked it up bud. try harderjofjltncb6 wrote: »Also, am hoping for more forum and nutrition lessons from grey avi's with locked down food diaries.
Why would I expect to find "dirt" on you? I would expect your diary is a shining example for all others to follow. I was just hoping to pick up a few things about the right way to do this.
Yup.
And in exchange for the wisdom I gained, I could offer instruction on how to upload a picture. Everybody wins!
never again
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »goddessofawesome wrote: »Not sure who is worse or more annoying the hysterical "sugar is the devil" crowd or the "ermagerd processed, chemicalz, toxins" in the food hypochondriacs.
But there are ingredients we use in the U.S. that are banned in other countries because they've been proven harmful. Does it really make someone a hypochondriac to say 'I don't want to eat that' or 'that is an unhealthy food' simply because it contains known carcinogens, or other toxic chemicals (or ermagerd chemicalz). I don't think it's bad to have a healthy fear of unnatural things in food.
The problem when this is discussed here is that you will now get the "EVERYTHING HAS CHEMICALS!" people who proceed to show you what, exactly is in a blueberry and how "you can't pronounce it so it's bad for you!" It's nit-picky really when you think about it. I personally stay away from things like Red Dye #5, BPA, rBGH/rBST and the like but that's just me and it in no way makes me a "food hypochondriac".
How is Red Dye #5 bad for you?
What is it?
I was trying to work that out myself. My google-fu failed me.
Me too. That's why I asked.
But she's not a "food hypochondriac", yet fears a food dye I find no reference to.0 -
The overall diet is composed of all the individual food choices. Since the individual food choices make up the diet, attention to them is obviously important.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
you seem to understand the premise but are stuck on the fact that there is no hard definition of healthy, or clean, or even an empty calorie. these are all relative termschivalryder wrote: »
and OP was never seen againchivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »By definition of my nutrition book since I took a class at my college, healthy foods have more micro nutrients than the so call junk food "empty calories", foods with no micro nutrients, was what it was called in the book.
OK - so if I hit my macros/micors and calorie goals for the day, but I got 500-600 calories from ice cream and cookies is that then not healthy? Because empty calories??? (whatever those are)
This line alone shows just how little you actually know about what you're talking about.
Please feel free to enlighten us.
The point trying to be made is that you can only absorb so many micronutrients. If you eat a majority of nutrient dense food (or at least sufficient amounts), and fill the rest with pizza, chocolate, ice cream, or whatever, how is that bad.
*And keep in mind that this thread is being argued by people who eat a hell of a lot more than 1200 calories a day. It's hard to fit in treats when you only eat a little every day. When your goal is 2000 calories or even 3500 calories, you can easily work in more calorie dense food and still get proper nutrition.
"Empty calories (whatever that is)" was the line I was going at.
The credibility of the original post was lost when the OP admitted she doesn't know what an empty calorie is.
for the record I am a male…
please feel free to explain what an empty calorie is..? I assume a calorie with zero units of energy…?
No. An empty calorie is where you eat or drink a substance that has little to no nutritional value on a micronutrient level.
Take 12 fl oz of Cola vs freshly squeezed Orange Juice for example. The orange juice contains 41mg of calcium, 0.74 mg of iron, 41mg of magnesium, 63mg of phosphorus, 744mg of potassium, 4mg of sodium, 0.19mg of zinc, 186mg of Vitamin C, 0.335mg of Thiamin, 0.112mg of Riboflavin, 1.488mg of Niacin, 0.149mg of Vitamin B-6, 112 ug of Folate, 37ug of Vitamin A, RAE, 744IU of Vitamin A, IU, 0.15mg of Vitamin E, and 0.4 ug of Vitamin K. That's all in 328 total calories.
The Cola, on the other hand, contains 7 mg of Calcium, 0.07 mg of Iron, 41 mg of Phosphorus, 11mg of Potassium, 15mg of Sodium, 0.04 mg of Zinc, and absolutely nothing else. From 12 fl oz, that is basically nothing, for 152 calories. These are called empty calories. Calories you consume that have minimal nutritional significance, beyond the macro level.
I suppose I should add that what I just explained there is a clear cut example of what is a "healthy" food and what is not a "healthy" food.
Now, put that together into a 'diet' and you're not longer talking about what a singular healthy food is. You're talking about a diet. You can eat whatever the heck you want, but what you eat can, and will make a different physiologically. Mentally, if you need to eat the donut, then eat the freaking donut because it would be unhealthy to completely ignore your cravings all the time
no, they are just foods with different calorie content, and micro breakdowns...
2 direct comparisons in front of you showing calorie vs micro count, you should be able to clearly state which is better for you. and short of some minor mental aspect that you could consider, the OJ wipes the table over coke any day
that is exactly my point..
there is just food that your body uses for energy ..combine them in certain ways, for certain goals…
if someone wants to drink a cola to get in their calories for the day then so be it…does not mean that one is better than another...
your still missing the micronutrient point. yes, if you have all micros in for a day then it makes no difference but how often does that ever happen without extreme planning and diligence to an very specific diet
well again, context of diet has to be considered? If you have hit micros and drink the coke then what is the issue?
The issue is that the OP asked about healthy foods yet you are talking about a healthy diet. I get your point, but you are really mixing topics.
This.
I am the OP and I said define healthy, but I also said that you have to take into consideration context of overall diet...
at least, I am pretty sure that is what I said..
I meant 'original post' more than 'original poster'. The subject is "Define 'healthy' food". In the original post it says "which then naturally sparks the question what is "healthy" food." then you go on to tell us your opinion.
yes, and I clearly said in my first post that context of diet matters....
And some disagree. Context matters when discussing a healthy diet. For many 'healthy food' implies a discussion of individual foods, not diet.
Food has no context. Broccoli doesn't cease to be broccoli on a dinner plate because you had an Oreo at lunch. It won't become and orange or an ice cream cone. Broccoli is still broccoli no matter what else you have eaten. If you took one tiny broccoli crumb and tossed it into a pile of corn, the broccoli crumb is still broccoli.
The food has no context.
If you're trying to decide whether or not you should eat something, then you might want to consider your overall diet and your overall health in that decision-making process. However, your overall diet will not make that particular thing any better or worse for you. If you have eaten nothing but Twinkies for six months, that doesn't make the asparagus any healthier. If you have eaten nothing but asparagus for six months, that doesn't make the Twinkie any healthier. The asparagus and the Twinkie are still just asparagus and Twinkies. They have no context.
This concept of "Food is different depending on context" is just strange.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »I would say how I define healthy food is somewhat complex. On a basic level, I define healthy foods as those that provide notable amounts of macro and micronutrients. Now, even though something like broccoli is not high in macronutrients, because of its micronutrient density I would still consider it healthy. Likewise, I would consider lean meats to be healthy in general. However, a lot of foods that are high in macronutrients but low in micronutrients I would not consider to be very healthy.
On a deeper level, I'm with a few of the posters here that have also defined healthy vs unhealthy in terms of the ingredients in the food. In most cases, I would not consider something to be healthy if it is loaded with lots of artificial sweeteners and other non-natural ingredients. Most of my diet from day to day is free of foods packed with this stuff. But if I'm at a party or some other place where refreshments are served that include these foods, I often will eat some. Aside from simply giving me calories, I still consider foods like commercial doughnuts unhealthy, although I sure do like the taste!
Another thing: homemade vs commercial. I eat pizza, but I consider most of the pizza I eat healthy. Why? Because the dough has been homemade from whole grain flour that has been soured, and the mozzarella cheese is not full fat. The tomato sauce and pepperoni I add to it I would neither consider to be healthy or unhealthy, but the main sources of calories (flour and cheese) are healthy IMO. The way I see it, my homemade pizza is far from commercial pizza.
Likewise, I eat cake and cookies very often, but these are homemade. They are certainly lower in fat and sugar than commercial ones. While I don't exactly consider these homemade sweets junk or unhealthy, I wouldn't call it "healthy" overall either.
Note: While I have talked about some foods being lower in fat as what I consider being healthier, by no means am I eating a particularly low fat diet. I just get a lot of my fat from other foods where it's naturally found in (nuts and cheddar cheese being examples).
Another thing: Dietary restrictions. I do have a somewhat sensitive digestive system. When it comes to something like eggs, I can't sit down and eat 2 eggs one day and 2 eggs the next. So while I consider eggs to be healthy, it wouldn't be healthy for me to eat 4 eggs over a two day time period.
so full fat mozzarella cheese is not healthy???
Yeah, I'm going to have to go with this. Full Fat > Low Fat 100% of the time. Why? Naturally occurring fatty acids are good for you.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »goddessofawesome wrote: »
Yeast, azodicarbonamide, dough conditioner, gluten, bleach and many other things i can not even pronounce!! Different matter if your making it at home but..................Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Lasmartchika wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »The issue is that the OP asked about healthy foods yet you are talking about a healthy diet. I get your point, but you are really mixing topics.
Yeah these are two topics all mushed into one... But I'll bite.
1)
Healthy foods: Meats, vegetables, fruits, breads, nuts, dairy.
Junk food: Chips, candy, soda, cookies, donuts, etc.
2)
Now, are they bad? NO. Will I stop eating them? NO. Do I make it fit into my day? HELL YEAH.
That is all. :drinker:
Bread is not healthy in terms of ingredients
How so?
Really depends on the bread you're buying.
EX: Ezekiel Sprouted Bread ingredients: Organic Sprouted Wheat, Filtered Water, Organic Sprouted Barley, Organic Sprouted Millet, Organic Malted Barley, Organic Sprouted Lentils, Organic Sprouted Soybeans, Organic Sprouted Spelt, Fresh Yeast, Organic Wheat Gluten, Sea Salt.
So . . .how are those ingredients bad?
There are a lot of breads out there that don't have the ingredients you listed.
Well, most of them have gluten and yeast, although of course there are exceptions.
I think of the ingredients of basic bread as flour, water, yeast. All else is elective. But some people think flour (and I guess yeast, didn't know that) is unhealthy.
Yeah, my mom has to avoid yeast for her autoimmune disease. Which means that crescent rolls out of a can are healthier for her than many homemade breads.
More context!0 -
i used to have one, until an older female on my friends list started getting a little creepy.jofjltncb6 wrote: »
oh so you were hoping to learn from someone with a grey avi were you?jofjltncb6 wrote: »
oh did you go to my profile to try and find dirt on me? exactly why i locked it up bud. try harderjofjltncb6 wrote: »Also, am hoping for more forum and nutrition lessons from grey avi's with locked down food diaries.
Why would I expect to find "dirt" on you? I would expect your diary is a shining example for all others to follow. I was just hoping to pick up a few things about the right way to do this.
Yup.
And in exchange for the wisdom I gained, I could offer instruction on how to upload a picture. Everybody wins!
never again
You could have just dropped and blocked her...
...but I get it. Safety first.
Did she stop being creepy after you deleted your picture?0 -
Not sure who is worse or more annoying the hysterical "sugar is the devil" crowd or the "ermagerd processed, chemicalz, toxins" in the food hypochondriacs.
But there are ingredients we use in the U.S. that are banned in other countries because they've been proven harmful. Does it really make someone a hypochondriac to say 'I don't want to eat that' or 'that is an unhealthy food' simply because it contains known carcinogens, or other toxic chemicals (or ermagerd chemicalz). I don't think it's bad to have a healthy fear of unnatural things in food.
This is not sarcasm or whatever you want to call it but whI have ingredients is it you're speaking of. That's a real question. Don't worry I still have plenty of time to be sarcastic and condescending in other posts. But not this one. So please tell me which toxic chemicals those are.
BVO is linked to growth defects and hearing loss and is in a lot of citrus flavored soda. That's the first that comes to mind. I would consider that to be toxic.
I realize there are 'toxic' substances in all food. Even natural food, even water. But there are some that I personally would consider more dangerous than others. I still don't think that avoiding something even the FDA (which I have very little faith in) claims can be hazardous, makes me a hypochondriac.
Got any more?
How many need to be listed before it's socially acceptable to worry about what's in your food? How many are ok? Does it just have to do with how they affect you? I kind of feel like not having deformed babies is important. Call me crazy
Well I am sure no one wants the bold. Also prenatal vitamins are a thing and will continue to be a thing. Are babies born ok without them? I have no idea. It will be something I know later on though.
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jofjltncb6 wrote: »Also, am hoping for more forum and nutrition lessons from grey avi's with locked down food diaries.
so only people with open profiles can answer?? This is a forum is it not!! Should we knock first?? I'm guessing you go to the gym, as do i. I'm guessing you find things that work for you, as do i!! And then you give others your opinion, which is all it is!! An opinion......................However now i'v snooped your profile, i take it all back, finally someone with a sense of humour!!! Read on...........
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Hey, lemurcat. This runaway thread is too hard to follow to find your response, but thank you. My particular argument, now well-buried, was around complex carbohydrates being "healthier" than simple ones. Our national health boards recommend eating more of them. So I'm ready to back complex carbohydrates as being better for us than their simpler cousins. The oatmeal cookie is better than the Twinkie, all other things being equal.
And my particular annoyance is with the OP, who zipped right past my response (too busy working apparently) in favour of flaming other responses.
OP, if you plan on kicking the hornet's nest, do it on your free time, eh?0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »I would say how I define healthy food is somewhat complex. On a basic level, I define healthy foods as those that provide notable amounts of macro and micronutrients. Now, even though something like broccoli is not high in macronutrients, because of its micronutrient density I would still consider it healthy. Likewise, I would consider lean meats to be healthy in general. However, a lot of foods that are high in macronutrients but low in micronutrients I would not consider to be very healthy.
On a deeper level, I'm with a few of the posters here that have also defined healthy vs unhealthy in terms of the ingredients in the food. In most cases, I would not consider something to be healthy if it is loaded with lots of artificial sweeteners and other non-natural ingredients. Most of my diet from day to day is free of foods packed with this stuff. But if I'm at a party or some other place where refreshments are served that include these foods, I often will eat some. Aside from simply giving me calories, I still consider foods like commercial doughnuts unhealthy, although I sure do like the taste!
Another thing: homemade vs commercial. I eat pizza, but I consider most of the pizza I eat healthy. Why? Because the dough has been homemade from whole grain flour that has been soured, and the mozzarella cheese is not full fat. The tomato sauce and pepperoni I add to it I would neither consider to be healthy or unhealthy, but the main sources of calories (flour and cheese) are healthy IMO. The way I see it, my homemade pizza is far from commercial pizza.
Likewise, I eat cake and cookies very often, but these are homemade. They are certainly lower in fat and sugar than commercial ones. While I don't exactly consider these homemade sweets junk or unhealthy, I wouldn't call it "healthy" overall either.
Note: While I have talked about some foods being lower in fat as what I consider being healthier, by no means am I eating a particularly low fat diet. I just get a lot of my fat from other foods where it's naturally found in (nuts and cheddar cheese being examples).
Another thing: Dietary restrictions. I do have a somewhat sensitive digestive system. When it comes to something like eggs, I can't sit down and eat 2 eggs one day and 2 eggs the next. So while I consider eggs to be healthy, it wouldn't be healthy for me to eat 4 eggs over a two day time period.
Jesus. You just demonize stuff left and right all the time. So now your pizza is healthy because it's homemade whole grain dough but the dough from a pizzeria is unhealthy? I hope one day you wake up and realize how little common sense some of your posts shine through with. And then always talking about your dietary restrictions as to what makes something healthy or not. Those are your dietary restrictions not everyone else's. It's Time To Stop Crying.
From what I could tell, the OP asked for the definition of healthy. He gave his definition of healthy. You may not agree but he did just state what his definition was. He defines healthy from not only a macro but also a micronutrient level.0 -
Not sure who is worse or more annoying the hysterical "sugar is the devil" crowd or the "ermagerd processed, chemicalz, toxins" in the food hypochondriacs.
But there are ingredients we use in the U.S. that are banned in other countries because they've been proven harmful. Does it really make someone a hypochondriac to say 'I don't want to eat that' or 'that is an unhealthy food' simply because it contains known carcinogens, or other toxic chemicals (or ermagerd chemicalz). I don't think it's bad to have a healthy fear of unnatural things in food.
This is not sarcasm or whatever you want to call it but whI have ingredients is it you're speaking of. That's a real question. Don't worry I still have plenty of time to be sarcastic and condescending in other posts. But not this one. So please tell me which toxic chemicals those are.
BVO is linked to growth defects and hearing loss and is in a lot of citrus flavored soda. That's the first that comes to mind. I would consider that to be toxic.
I realize there are 'toxic' substances in all food. Even natural food, even water. But there are some that I personally would consider more dangerous than others. I still don't think that avoiding something even the FDA (which I have very little faith in) claims can be hazardous, makes me a hypochondriac.
Got any more?
How many need to be listed before it's socially acceptable to worry about what's in your food? How many are ok? Does it just have to do with how they affect you? I kind of feel like not having deformed babies is important. Call me crazy
There were babies born deformed hundreds of years ago also, explain that??0 -
chivalryder wrote: »tiffaniedemayo wrote: »I have to agree with "Goldthistime": I define healthy food as nutrient dense foods, with limited amounts of salt, sugar and fat. Meaning vegetables, lean meats, fruits and whole grains. I define junk as nutrient sparse food with lots of salt sugar or fat. Meaning chips, cheezies, candy, donuts, onion rings etc.
ok - so here is the question ...if you had a diet containing both and hit your goals does that mean that buy eating chips, cheezies, or whatever combination thereof then makes your day "unhealthy"?
No, for 99.9% of the population, it doesn't matter. For the 0.1% of the population (or less) that is seriously training to compete at an elite level of athletic competition, then yes, it would matter.
I don't believe anyone here fits into the latter.
No, it does not automatically make an elite level athletes day unhealthy. In fact, it is less likely to be unhealthy.
You're right. I got out of context. It will not make their diet less healthy, but when they are in training, it could very well hamper their performance. The months approaching a competition like, say, they Olympics, they will get extremely strict with their diet, trying to get every little bit of performance out of their food and body.
That's why you see them going nuts right after they're finished the competition.
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yopeeps025 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »The problem is that health and nutrition cannot be considered or discussed in a vacuum...context and dosage are incredibly important to the discussion. As individual food items are concerned, I do think there are obviously "healthier" choices and lesser choices and I do think that getting overall proper nutrition is very important to one's overall health...but I also think that some Doritos can easily fit into an overall balanced and overwhelmingly "healthful" diet without consequence.
That to me seems to be where people get so hung up...it's like they think if they have a soda that somehow negates the 6-8 servings of vegetables they had earlier or something. Context and dosage, context and dosage....
I am with you wolf man..
like I pointed out in my original OP ..if I hit my calorie/micro/macro goal for the day but within that day I had about 400-500 calories of ice cream cookies, etc, does that mean it was unhealthy?? No, it just means that I used those foods to round out my day ...
ice cream has some micro nutrients. Cookies umm I have to see the labels.
but if you already hit the micros what difference does it make???
I would be surprised if people really hit all there micro nutrients alot. If you did and you still had calories to spare I guess why not eat something with little to no nutrients in it.
I actually do much of the time.
The only one I am sometimes short on is iron (being a vegetarian it's more common)- but I do not have an iron deficiency so I am not too concerned.0 -
goddessofawesome wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »goddessofawesome wrote: »Not sure who is worse or more annoying the hysterical "sugar is the devil" crowd or the "ermagerd processed, chemicalz, toxins" in the food hypochondriacs.
But there are ingredients we use in the U.S. that are banned in other countries because they've been proven harmful. Does it really make someone a hypochondriac to say 'I don't want to eat that' or 'that is an unhealthy food' simply because it contains known carcinogens, or other toxic chemicals (or ermagerd chemicalz). I don't think it's bad to have a healthy fear of unnatural things in food.
The problem when this is discussed here is that you will now get the "EVERYTHING HAS CHEMICALS!" people who proceed to show you what, exactly is in a blueberry and how "you can't pronounce it so it's bad for you!" It's nit-picky really when you think about it. I personally stay away from things like Red Dye #5, BPA, rBGH/rBST and the like but that's just me and it in no way makes me a "food hypochondriac".
How is Red Dye #5 bad for you?
Because it contains known carcinogens. Red Dye #3 has been acknowledged by the FDA to be a carcinogen but it's still in foods
What is Red Dye #5?. I google's it and honestly could not find it.
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Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
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I define healthy food as food that supports my health inside and out. I think pizza and other things are fine once in a while but the focus should be on health of the entire body and not just losing, gaining or maintaing a certain weight. I mean we should also take into consideration what are heart, liver, bladder and so on also need us to eat. I would like to get a lot of my vitamins from my food as well. I am not sure if that is what you mean and please I am not completely disagreeing with you just giving my view.0
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You know what is healthy......... Not getting to worked up about what is and is not healthy.
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jofjltncb6 wrote: »
i used to have one, until an older female on my friends list started getting a little creepy.jofjltncb6 wrote: »
oh so you were hoping to learn from someone with a grey avi were you?jofjltncb6 wrote: »
oh did you go to my profile to try and find dirt on me? exactly why i locked it up bud. try harderjofjltncb6 wrote: »Also, am hoping for more forum and nutrition lessons from grey avi's with locked down food diaries.
Why would I expect to find "dirt" on you? I would expect your diary is a shining example for all others to follow. I was just hoping to pick up a few things about the right way to do this.
Yup.
And in exchange for the wisdom I gained, I could offer instruction on how to upload a picture. Everybody wins!
never again
You could have just dropped and blocked her...
...but I get it. Safety first.
Did she stop being creepy after you deleted your picture?
somewhat. the picture drop was just a preventative measure, i suppose the anonymity of it was a decent perk as well0
This discussion has been closed.
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