Heart Rate Monitors for intervals & weight lifting

2

Replies

  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    edited January 2015
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    The funny thing, is that someone really tried to argue the accuracy for HR.

    Accuracy for HR can depend on the model, and what it's being used for.

    For example in a HIIT situation where someone would be going from say 150bpm to 195 bpm very quickly, but for a very short period of time, there will be a lag between actual change and presented figures. Lower cost models have less sensitive sensing, and simpler algorithms, so that lag is likely to be less predictable.

    In practice that shouldn't matter as if one has the bandwidth to read the HRM in the peak period, one has capacity to push harder.

    Proper wear is the other issue. Chest straps are taking a read from electrical activity around the heart and are worn in such a way that they're reasonably resilient to movement, sweat etc. Optical, wrist worn, monitors are dependent on the sensor being worn correctly on the wrist. That means it has to be quite tight to avoid peripheral light contamination of the sensor. That makes it pretty uncomfortable. Whilst optical sensors are assessed as reliable when worn correctly, they're more difficult to wear correctly for any length of time.

    Whilst less of an issue for long duration CV like running or cycling it's more likely to be an issue doing resistance training, when the wrist is placed under physical stress in a different way.

    So I guess there are a couple of layers of debate.

    Is the use of the data meaningful in the types of training that you describe?

    If it is then is the device in use accurate enough that the data means much in that analysis?

    Notwithstanding all of that, they're a tool. It's just worth being aware of the strengths and weaknesses in the use. One wouldn't try to repair spectacles with a claw hammer after all.
  • bingfit221
    bingfit221 Posts: 105 Member
    I just don't get it. A heart rate monitor is called a heart rate monitor. Not a calorie tracker. Argh.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    edited January 2015
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    I just don't get it. A heart rate monitor is called a heart rate monitor. Not a calorie tracker. Argh.

    True, but that's not how they are sold/marketed though. 2% of the population cares about HR. 90% care about calories and calorie burns.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    I just don't get it. A heart rate monitor is called a heart rate monitor. Not a calorie tracker. Argh.

    LOL yes but some people use them solely for the purpose of tracking calories- they don't ever do the math themselves. They cut out the middle man.

    This is one of the reasons I've never bought one- I can actually take my own pulse and I am aware of my level of exertion and I can guesstimate through calorie charts how hard I was working reasonably well.

    So yeah- nope- don't need one- waste of money for me (esp since I don't do much actual running)

    we ran them on the horses for long distance racing- but we were talking national/international level competing- it was important.. not so much for me going for a casual 3 mile spin.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    jacksonpt wrote: »
    True, but that's not how they are sold/marketed though. 2% of the population cares about HR. 90% care about calories and calorie burns.

    Googly eyed marketeers. Third up against the wall come the time of the glorious revolution... :)

  • Bry_Fitness70
    Bry_Fitness70 Posts: 2,480 Member
    jacksonpt wrote: »
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    I just don't get it. A heart rate monitor is called a heart rate monitor. Not a calorie tracker. Argh.

    True, but that's not how they are sold/marketed though.

    I use an HRM to increase calorie burn accuracy, understanding that it is not highly accurate. Using your HR to calculate calorie burn, along with the other data like your age, sex, weight, etc., that go into the calculation is better than just guessing or using a table.

    I'm in maintenance mode and eat back most calories, and this methodology seems to work, my weight has been relatively consistent for the year I've been using an HRM. For weight lifting, while I'm in the middle of a rep, my HR increases, my calorie burn increases, between sets, my HR drops, and my calorie burn drops. So there is some logic to using it, even if it is imperfect.

  • bingfit221
    bingfit221 Posts: 105 Member
    @jacksonpt @JoRocka
    I am probably one of the few who care about HR. Maybe its because I am a distance runner & they definitely are a fabulous tool when it comes to overrunning or under running. I am 100% a HR runner.

    Also a fabulous tool to use when training an out of shape client especially when it comes to stroke.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    .....when it comes to stroke.

    What are you basing that risk assessment on?
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    I've done some HR training as well (triathlete).
  • missADS1981
    missADS1981 Posts: 364 Member
    i use a polar, i like it. its better than going blind in the gym.
  • Bry_Fitness70
    Bry_Fitness70 Posts: 2,480 Member
    jacksonpt wrote: »
    I've done some HR training as well (triathlete).

    Cool - I think I'm doing an Olympic triathlon this summer (my 1st), can't wait!
  • bingfit221
    bingfit221 Posts: 105 Member
    edited January 2015
    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    .....when it comes to stroke.

    What are you basing that risk assessment on?

    Define what you're asking?

    I am using a clients maximum HR (calculated via The Karvonen Method; not just the general theory of 220 - age).
  • WalkingAlong
    WalkingAlong Posts: 4,926 Member
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    Chrisparadise579 wrote: »
    I have the under armor monitor but I have heard great things about the RC3! Heart rate monitors are still very accurate for weight lifting I use one when I lift, but I use it to make sure I keep my heart rate up, not for the calorie burn. Typically weight lifters use the TDEE method for tracking because the calorie burn caused by weightlifting can last up to 48 hours afterword.

    I just like how people claim that they aren't accurate for intervals & weight lifting.

    It is like saying, "oh my speedometer in my car only works when I am going to steady 35 mph but not when I accelerate and decelerate."

    Of course it is isn't going to give you the right caloric burn because strength training & HIIT you have a great post burn.
    I think most authorities now say that 'post burn' (EPOC) is not very significant.
    https://www.nsca.com/Education/Articles/Hot-Topic-Role-of-EPOC-in-Weight-Loss/
  • bingfit221
    bingfit221 Posts: 105 Member
    edited January 2015
    WalkingAlong wrote: »
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    Chrisparadise579 wrote: »
    I have the under armor monitor but I have heard great things about the RC3! Heart rate monitors are still very accurate for weight lifting I use one when I lift, but I use it to make sure I keep my heart rate up, not for the calorie burn. Typically weight lifters use the TDEE method for tracking because the calorie burn caused by weightlifting can last up to 48 hours afterword.

    I just like how people claim that they aren't accurate for intervals & weight lifting.

    It is like saying, "oh my speedometer in my car only works when I am going to steady 35 mph but not when I accelerate and decelerate."

    Of course it is isn't going to give you the right caloric burn because strength training & HIIT you have a great post burn.
    I think most authorities now say that 'post burn' (EPOC) is not very significant.
    https://www.nsca.com/Education/Articles/Hot-Topic-Role-of-EPOC-in-Weight-Loss/

    Yes, I need to add an -er to great. I tend to have a few typos. Post burn may be short, but it can exist.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    edited January 2015
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    .....when it comes to stroke.

    What are you basing that risk assessment on?

    Define what you're asking?

    I am using a clients maximum HR (calculated via The Karvonen Method; not just the general theory of 220 - age).

    You're suggesting that an HRM can be a useful tool when dealing with stroke risk, or at least that's what I've inferred from your previous.

    Notwithstanding that you're suggesting that Karvonen is a more suitable approach to estimating MHR I'd appreciate an insight into how knowledge of the HR at a moment in time helps with identifying the clients risk.

    From a practical perspective, it's advice I tried to get from my GP late last year.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    WalkingAlong wrote: »
    I think most authorities now say that 'post burn' (EPOC) is not very significant.
    https://www.nsca.com/Education/Articles/Hot-Topic-Role-of-EPOC-in-Weight-Loss/

    But those extra couple of calories are significant dontyaknow
  • bingfit221
    bingfit221 Posts: 105 Member
    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    .....when it comes to stroke.

    What are you basing that risk assessment on?

    Define what you're asking?

    I am using a clients maximum HR (calculated via The Karvonen Method; not just the general theory of 220 - age).

    You're suggesting that an HRM can be a useful tool when dealing with stroke risk, or at least that's what I've inferred from your previous.

    Notwithstanding that you're suggesting that Karvonen is a more suitable approach to estimating MHR I'd appreciate an insight into how knowledge of the HR at a moment in time helps with identifying the clients risk.

    From a practical perspective, it's advice I tried to get from my GP late last year.

    Stroke volume can have a direct correlation with heart rate when in an anabolic state of cardio.
  • bingfit221
    bingfit221 Posts: 105 Member
    edited January 2015
    OR from a personal experience, I had a client with a pace maker once. Her heart was born with a defect and she needed a pacemaker for her heart to actually function. Her pacemaker will only sustain 180bpm so it was key for us to know where her HR was at any given moment. This is more so related to cardiac issues than so stroke.

    I didn't finish typing my prior post. Sorry.

    If you take into account tachycardia (condition of chronic high heart rate) and bradycardia (condition of low heart rate), this would be the only instance when it can affect stroke. BUT it can still happen.

  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    edited January 2015
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    .....when it comes to stroke.

    What are you basing that risk assessment on?

    Define what you're asking?

    I am using a clients maximum HR (calculated via The Karvonen Method; not just the general theory of 220 - age).

    You're suggesting that an HRM can be a useful tool when dealing with stroke risk, or at least that's what I've inferred from your previous.

    Notwithstanding that you're suggesting that Karvonen is a more suitable approach to estimating MHR I'd appreciate an insight into how knowledge of the HR at a moment in time helps with identifying the clients risk.

    From a practical perspective, it's advice I tried to get from my GP late last year.

    Stroke volume can have a direct correlation with heart rate when in an anabolic state of cardio.

    So you're not actually talking about stroke risk?

    Sounds like very niche usage to be honest.

    Personally I don't tend to worry too much about HR when I'm training, but I do use the traces after the fact during my post training analysis. I did have a situation last year where a GP suggested I should do less running due to a risk, but when I started to explore managing that, given that I had a half marathon coming up, he wasn't able to give me any real insight other than simple doom and gloom don't run nonsense. Haven't stopped running and cycling and still not dead.
  • bingfit221
    bingfit221 Posts: 105 Member
    edited January 2015
    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    bingfit221 wrote: »
    .....when it comes to stroke.

    What are you basing that risk assessment on?

    Define what you're asking?

    I am using a clients maximum HR (calculated via The Karvonen Method; not just the general theory of 220 - age).

    You're suggesting that an HRM can be a useful tool when dealing with stroke risk, or at least that's what I've inferred from your previous.

    Notwithstanding that you're suggesting that Karvonen is a more suitable approach to estimating MHR I'd appreciate an insight into how knowledge of the HR at a moment in time helps with identifying the clients risk.

    From a practical perspective, it's advice I tried to get from my GP late last year.

    Stroke volume can have a direct correlation with heart rate when in an anabolic state of cardio.

    So you're not actually talking about stroke risk?

    Sounds like very niche usage to be honest.

    Personally I don't tend to worry too much about HR when I'm training, but I do use the traces after the fact during my post training analysis. I did have a situation last year where a GP suggested I should do less running due to a risk, but when I started to explore managing that, given that I had a half marathon coming up, he wasn't able to give me any real insight other than simple doom and gloom don't run nonsense. Haven't stopped running and cycling and still not dead.

    Yes I am referring to stroke.

    Stroke volume, no. In reference to the heart.

    http://www.heartandstroke.com/site/c.ikIQLcMWJtE/b.3484057/

    Maybe this will help.

    Sometimes I fail at putting thoughts into words haha.

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