Stirring the Pot: are all calories equal
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missomgitsica wrote: »I'll agree. Calories are not equal. 100 cals from an apple isn't the same as 100 from a Twinkie. That's why eating cleaner is so important.
Eat 3000 calories a day in just apples and tell us what happens. You'll gain weight wish you were dead/never leave the bathroom.
A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. A calorie deficit is what's needed to lose weight. If you take in more calories than you burn, whether they're cooked or raw or processed or Twinkies or apples, you'll gain weight.
FIFY0 -
As a unit of measure, 1=1, no matter what it is. 1 always equals 1 and will never equal anything else.
That's not correct. It depends on context.
It took Principia Mathematica about 500 pages worth of logical proofs to establish that "1+1=2" - usually. Even then ended up with a circular definition. And if 1 plus 1 being 2 is a "sometimes", then it's not possible that "1 always equals 1".
In what context is 1 = 1 incorrect?
I did pretty well in math, but didn't go so far that 1 did not equal 1.
Is it possible to explain that to someone who wasn't a math major?
I have nothing else to add to this trolling thread. But I can explain the 1+1 =/= 2 comment (I'm not a math major, I'm an engineer).
Its a study in significant figures and rounding.
1.4 rounds to 1 (because 4 is less than 5).
1.4 + 1.4 = 2.8
2.8 rounds to 3 (because 8 is greater than 5).
If you had to round because of significant figures (common when you get into physics and labwork), in this case:
1 + 1 = 3
At least that's how I understand it.
ETA: when you don't have a decimal point, the 1 is assumed to have any value between 0.5 to 1.4 because you are not being precise. If you want to say exactly 1, you have to put 1.0.0 -
why is this thread still going ...
a calorie is a unit of energy ..
one calorie = one calorie
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An inch of dynamite is quite different from an inch of diamonds
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SingRunTing wrote: »As a unit of measure, 1=1, no matter what it is. 1 always equals 1 and will never equal anything else.
That's not correct. It depends on context.
It took Principia Mathematica about 500 pages worth of logical proofs to establish that "1+1=2" - usually. Even then ended up with a circular definition. And if 1 plus 1 being 2 is a "sometimes", then it's not possible that "1 always equals 1".
In what context is 1 = 1 incorrect?
I did pretty well in math, but didn't go so far that 1 did not equal 1.
Is it possible to explain that to someone who wasn't a math major?
I have nothing else to add to this trolling thread. But I can explain the 1+1 =/= 2 comment (I'm not a math major, I'm an engineer).
Its a study in significant figures and rounding.
1.4 rounds to 1 (because 4 is less than 5).
1.4 + 1.4 = 2.8
2.8 rounds to 3 (because 8 is greater than 5).
If you had to round because of significant figures (common when you get into physics and labwork), in this case:
1 + 1 = 3
At least that's how I understand it.
ETA: when you don't have a decimal point, the 1 is assumed to have any value between 0.5 to 1.4 because you are not being precise. If you want to say exactly 1, you have to put 1.0.
Kalikel is assuming a particular area of practical mathematics, arithmetic, and she's assuming only the set of real numbers. Change those parameters, and 1 + 1 doesn't necessarily mean the same thing anymore.
Explaining what and why gets complicated, which is why I didn't post. I've got a post-graduate theoretical math background which did not emphasize simplistic explanation in any way, shape, or form. LOL.
The droplet example was a good non-math example of 1 + 1 = 1 without going into unnecessary detail. I thought it was best to leave it at that.
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SingRunTing wrote: »As a unit of measure, 1=1, no matter what it is. 1 always equals 1 and will never equal anything else.
That's not correct. It depends on context.
It took Principia Mathematica about 500 pages worth of logical proofs to establish that "1+1=2" - usually. Even then ended up with a circular definition. And if 1 plus 1 being 2 is a "sometimes", then it's not possible that "1 always equals 1".
In what context is 1 = 1 incorrect?
I did pretty well in math, but didn't go so far that 1 did not equal 1.
Is it possible to explain that to someone who wasn't a math major?
I have nothing else to add to this trolling thread. But I can explain the 1+1 =/= 2 comment (I'm not a math major, I'm an engineer).
Its a study in significant figures and rounding.
1.4 rounds to 1 (because 4 is less than 5).
1.4 + 1.4 = 2.8
2.8 rounds to 3 (because 8 is greater than 5).
If you had to round because of significant figures (common when you get into physics and labwork), in this case:
1 + 1 = 3
At least that's how I understand it.
ETA: when you don't have a decimal point, the 1 is assumed to have any value between 0.5 to 1.4 because you are not being precise. If you want to say exactly 1, you have to put 1.0.
Kalikel is assuming a particular area of practical mathematics, arithmetic, and she's assuming only the set of real numbers. Change those parameters, and 1 + 1 doesn't necessarily mean the same thing anymore.
Explaining what and why gets complicated, which is why I didn't post. I've got a post-graduate theoretical math background which did not emphasize simplistic explanation in any way, shape, or form. LOL.
The droplet example was a good non-math example of 1 + 1 = 1 without going into unnecessary detail. I thought it was best to leave it at that.
I just checked on Youtube to see if Numberphile had a video on that, but it appears he doesn't.
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snowflake930 wrote: »Are all inches equal?
How about yard sticks?
does 1 centimeter = 1 centimeter?
100 calories from an apple are equal to 100 calories from a twinkie.
the NUTRITION is not identical.
But the calories are the same because a calorie is simply a unit of measurement, the measurement of the amount of heat you need to raise the temp of a kg of water by one celsius degree
^^^She is right. Nutrition is the big difference.
Your comment "calories are the same because a calorie is simply a unit of measurement" is not correct. According to the article the work the body has to do to process that calorie greatly influences whether the food will cause you to gain or not. Example 300 calories of broccoli is A LOT. Your body would have to work harder to digest this food rather than say 300 calories of cookie. Because the body doesn't have to do much to digest the cookie you gain weight. Seems very logical to me. All calories are not equal.
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swilkinson0705 wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »Are all inches equal?
How about yard sticks?
does 1 centimeter = 1 centimeter?
100 calories from an apple are equal to 100 calories from a twinkie.
the NUTRITION is not identical.
But the calories are the same because a calorie is simply a unit of measurement, the measurement of the amount of heat you need to raise the temp of a kg of water by one celsius degree
^^^She is right. Nutrition is the big difference.
Your comment "calories are the same because a calorie is simply a unit of measurement" is not correct. According to the article the work the body has to do to process that calorie greatly influences whether the food will cause you to gain or not.
If you look at an overall diet, the claim "greatly influences" is a gross overstatement. I eat lots of veggies and not much of what is usually termed highly processed foods, but I suspect the actual difference in my deficit and someone's for whom that is not true, all else equal, would be a rounding error.
Moreover, for the purposes of this discussion, additional work your body does to process the calories is part of "calories out." It is not an argument that a calorie is other than a calorie.
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swilkinson0705 wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »Are all inches equal?
How about yard sticks?
does 1 centimeter = 1 centimeter?
100 calories from an apple are equal to 100 calories from a twinkie.
the NUTRITION is not identical.
But the calories are the same because a calorie is simply a unit of measurement, the measurement of the amount of heat you need to raise the temp of a kg of water by one celsius degree
^^^She is right. Nutrition is the big difference.
Your comment "calories are the same because a calorie is simply a unit of measurement" is not correct. According to the article the work the body has to do to process that calorie greatly influences whether the food will cause you to gain or not. Example 300 calories of broccoli is A LOT. Your body would have to work harder to digest this food rather than say 300 calories of cookie. Because the body doesn't have to do much to digest the cookie you gain weight. Seems very logical to me. All calories are not equal.
TEF (thermatic effect of food) is limited and when you look at in overall dietary context and dosage it is even more minimal...
so 200 calories of broccoli = 200 calories of cookies they are both 1 to 1 in terms of energy.0 -
swilkinson0705 wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »Are all inches equal?
How about yard sticks?
does 1 centimeter = 1 centimeter?
100 calories from an apple are equal to 100 calories from a twinkie.
the NUTRITION is not identical.
But the calories are the same because a calorie is simply a unit of measurement, the measurement of the amount of heat you need to raise the temp of a kg of water by one celsius degree
^^^She is right. Nutrition is the big difference.
Your comment "calories are the same because a calorie is simply a unit of measurement" is not correct. According to the article the work the body has to do to process that calorie greatly influences whether the food will cause you to gain or not. Example 300 calories of broccoli is A LOT. Your body would have to work harder to digest this food rather than say 300 calories of cookie. Because the body doesn't have to do much to digest the cookie you gain weight. Seems very logical to me. All calories are not equal.
ahhh - but what if they are broccoli cookies!
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swilkinson0705 wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »Are all inches equal?
How about yard sticks?
does 1 centimeter = 1 centimeter?
100 calories from an apple are equal to 100 calories from a twinkie.
the NUTRITION is not identical.
But the calories are the same because a calorie is simply a unit of measurement, the measurement of the amount of heat you need to raise the temp of a kg of water by one celsius degree
^^^She is right. Nutrition is the big difference.
Your comment "calories are the same because a calorie is simply a unit of measurement" is not correct. According to the article the work the body has to do to process that calorie greatly influences whether the food will cause you to gain or not. Example 300 calories of broccoli is A LOT. Your body would have to work harder to digest this food rather than say 300 calories of cookie. Because the body doesn't have to do much to digest the cookie you gain weight. Seems very logical to me. All calories are not equal.
How much harder do you think your body works for that? 5 cals, 10 cals?
How about eating ice? The calorie effect of melting that ice? About the same.
It's a minor element when compared to total calories in or out.0 -
Explaining what and why gets complicated, which is why I didn't post. I've got a post-graduate theoretical math background which did not emphasize simplistic explanation in any way, shape, or form. LOL.
I wanna party with YOU! :drinker:
I tried pure math, couldn't cut it. It kept triggering my "mind blown" gene.
Ended up with four years of engineering/science math, subsequently coloured by living in the land of quantitative finance. 0 -
At this point, I'm pretty much convinced a calorie is a unit of pedantry.
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A Calorie is what I'm naming the next cat I get. Or dog - whichever comes first.
At that point, it will be appropriate to say "A Calorie isn't a Calorie." No, (s)he's a cat, or dog.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »swilkinson0705 wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »Are all inches equal?
How about yard sticks?
does 1 centimeter = 1 centimeter?
100 calories from an apple are equal to 100 calories from a twinkie.
the NUTRITION is not identical.
But the calories are the same because a calorie is simply a unit of measurement, the measurement of the amount of heat you need to raise the temp of a kg of water by one celsius degree
^^^She is right. Nutrition is the big difference.
Your comment "calories are the same because a calorie is simply a unit of measurement" is not correct. According to the article the work the body has to do to process that calorie greatly influences whether the food will cause you to gain or not. Example 300 calories of broccoli is A LOT. Your body would have to work harder to digest this food rather than say 300 calories of cookie. Because the body doesn't have to do much to digest the cookie you gain weight. Seems very logical to me. All calories are not equal.
How much harder do you think your body works for that? 5 cals, 10 cals?
How about eating ice? The calorie effect of melting that ice? About the same.
It's a minor element when compared to total calories in or out.
Burning just 10 calories a day more makes a 1 pound difference in fat over a year. Some calories do count more towards weight gain than others. And some calories count more towards muscle gain than others. And some calories count more towards cancer prevention and meeting micros than others. Food is so much more than calories, and calories from different sources impact the body differently. Viva la difference!0 -
In what I'm sure will be a vain attempt at finding a common/middle ground here, are we all able to agree to the following:
1. There is a difference between the laboratory measured caloric content of a food and how many calories are available to the human body once that food has been consumed
2. There is room for debate/further study on how large that difference is
3. We know the difference is typically bigger than zero, so for people who are close to their fitness goals and monitoring very closely, it may make a difference
4. We know the difference is unlikely to be more than approximately 20%, so for people with considerable weight to lose it is unlikely to make a notable difference
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In what I'm sure will be a vain attempt at finding a common/middle ground here, are we all able to agree to the following:
1. There is a difference between the laboratory measured caloric content of a food and how many calories are available to the human body once that food has been consumed
2. There is room for debate/further study on how large that difference is
3. We know the difference is typically bigger than zero, so for people who are close to their fitness goals and monitoring very closely, it may make a difference
4. We know the difference is unlikely to be more than approximately 20%, so for people with considerable weight to lose it is unlikely to make a notable difference
vain attempt or not, I applaud this post.
yes.0 -
Sure, works for me.0
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Explaining what and why gets complicated, which is why I didn't post. I've got a post-graduate theoretical math background which did not emphasize simplistic explanation in any way, shape, or form. LOL.
I wanna party with YOU! :drinker:
I tried pure math, couldn't cut it. It kept triggering my "mind blown" gene. Ended up with four years of engineering/science math, subsequently coloured by living in the land of quantitative finance.
Oh, yeah, I'm a blast to hang out with.
In all honesty, theoretical math isn't a love of mine and it sure as all hell ain't my specialty. I did a Master's in computer science, which required a year of theoretical math. During the class, I attracted the attention of the prof, a graph theory specialist, and he ended up as my thesis adviser because we shared an interest in biological applications (I was changing careers from microbiology).
So, I ended up with a lot more education in math theory than I would have ever chosen on my own. Especially after that man's class. Oy. Highest grade in his classes was usually a 40-50 with the mean hovering in the single digits. Did I mention he is a former paratrooper and drill sergeant?
ETA: was to is - thesis adviser is still around and publishing regularly0
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