cutting sugar
Replies
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prettykitty1515 wrote: »mymodernbabylon wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I'm older. When I was a kid, we didn't have sugary treats all the time, they were occasional things, like just for dessert after Sunday dinner or during the holidays. I had come to the point where I was ending every meal with a sweet! That was just ridiculous. The approach when I was a kid was much more moderate. I think that model is much more sane.
So as I child you only had fruit "occasionally"?
I believe that she meant sugary treats like candy, cookies and cake, not fruit (which I've never heard referred to as a sugary treat).
Sugar in fruit is still sugar.mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I'm older. When I was a kid, we didn't have sugary treats all the time, they were occasional things, like just for dessert after Sunday dinner or during the holidays. I had come to the point where I was ending every meal with a sweet! That was just ridiculous. The approach when I was a kid was much more moderate. I think that model is much more sane.
So as I child you only had fruit "occasionally"?
I don't consider fruit a "sugary treat", do you?
Sugar in fruit is still sugar.
Not sure why people think just because it is fruit the sugar is somehow different.
Right. Eating strawberries is the same as eating a donut. Just keep believing that.
keep believing that one form of sugar is somehow magically better than the other form of sugar...
It's not magic, it's the balance of:
fiber (3 g/cup for strawberries, 1.3 g per large donut)
vitamins and minerals (vitamin c, manganese, vitamin D etc. for strawberries, donut has is not a good source of any vitamins or minerals)
antioxidants and phytonutrients (strawberries yes, donut no)
protein (1g/cup strawberries, large donut has more at 3.3 g)
lower total sugar (7g/cup strawberries, 18 g for large donut)
lower total calories (49/cup strawberries, 303 for large donut)
The cup of strawberries is easier to fit into a restricted calorie diet, has more fiber and overall nutrition, and for me at least, the 49 calories in the cup of strawberries is more filling than the 303 calories in the donut. If I am eating fewer calories, I prefer ones that fill me up, and don't trigger cravings.
I get that some people, especially those who are recomping or are otherwise very active, sugar is a part of their dietary plan. If you are active enough to offset the risks of consuming high amounts of added sugars, that's fine. I understand that other people do not have cravings triggered by foods with added sugars. and I'm happy for them, but I do. I understand others have binges when they restrict foods, but I'm one of those who are more likely to have cravings and binge when I include foods with added sugars. There are many paths to successful weight loss, and part of the journey is finding out what eating habits support weight loss for yourself. The path that helps one dieter may hinder another.
Whether or not you chose to eat less processed food to decrease added sugar intake, good luck on the journey OP
I simply said that one form of sugar is not better than another..
nothing in your long winded reply addresses that...
so only those that recomping and "active" and eat sugar?
You were responding to "Eating strawberries is the same as eating a donut"
with "keep believing that one form of sugar is somehow magically better than the other form of sugar". I responded that the differences in impact between the sugars in the donut and strawberries weren't magical, they were a function of amount and context (and personal susceptability to sugar cravings).
Some people think CICO is simple, and couch their arguments in blunt terms. I find a more long-winded explanation to be more....explanatory.
Lots of people eat sugar. Lots of people are overweight.
If someone is eating lots of added sugars they are at risk of increased fat in their liver and visceral fat. Eating a lot of refined sugars can also increase risks of things like vascular disease and gallstones. Intense exercise targets visceral fat, increases insulin sensitivity, improves cardiovascular health. and lowers the risk of gallstones (among other health effects). The intense exercise mitigates the negative effects of the added sugars. The extra carbohydrate helps with athletic performance. Someone who is sedendary does not need extra carbohydrates, and is more likely to suffer ill effects from eating foods with a lot of calories and low nutritional value (added sugar).
It's a balancing act. Someone with 2400 calories to go through a day has more discretionary calories (room for "empty" calories) than someone with 1200 calories to eat a day. Allowing protein calories, or nutrition to fall low in order to eat added sugars in a 1200 calorie diet can have negative long-term effects.
Calories tend to be lower in whole foods that are sweet (fruit) than they are in processed foods that are sweet (donuts/cookies), but even when they aren't (eating 1/6 donut instead of a whole), the effect of the calories on the body (and the nutrition that comes with them) aren't the same. Equal =/= same.
One form of sugar (fruit) is better than another form of sugar (donut) - for me. I get to eat more of the fruit and stay in my goals, the fruit will make me healthier, more regular, and will help prevent cancer. As there is less fructose in the fruit, it is less likely to be stored in my liver, as it is more likely to be metabolized as it is digested. The sugar in the donut will encourage my body to store the fat in the donut, if I don't burn 300 calories in the amout of time it takes to digest/metabolize it. The amount of sugar in the fruit is low, and the fiber and water makes the fruit filling, so I'm likely to stop at (or generally before) a one cup serving, but the sucrose in the donut is not, so I'm likely to eat more than 1 donut, or eat again soon after eating the donut. It may also trigger cravings, leading me to have to work harder to stay on my diet. And, I'm lazy. I'd rather eat smart than use willpower.
And strawberries taste better...maybe that's the magic
oh look, you again ..
queen evil sugar...
not even gong to go there...0 -
prettykitty1515 wrote: »mymodernbabylon wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I'm older. When I was a kid, we didn't have sugary treats all the time, they were occasional things, like just for dessert after Sunday dinner or during the holidays. I had come to the point where I was ending every meal with a sweet! That was just ridiculous. The approach when I was a kid was much more moderate. I think that model is much more sane.
So as I child you only had fruit "occasionally"?
I believe that she meant sugary treats like candy, cookies and cake, not fruit (which I've never heard referred to as a sugary treat).
Sugar in fruit is still sugar.mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I'm older. When I was a kid, we didn't have sugary treats all the time, they were occasional things, like just for dessert after Sunday dinner or during the holidays. I had come to the point where I was ending every meal with a sweet! That was just ridiculous. The approach when I was a kid was much more moderate. I think that model is much more sane.
So as I child you only had fruit "occasionally"?
I don't consider fruit a "sugary treat", do you?
Sugar in fruit is still sugar.
Not sure why people think just because it is fruit the sugar is somehow different.
Right. Eating strawberries is the same as eating a donut. Just keep believing that.
keep believing that one form of sugar is somehow magically better than the other form of sugar...
It's not magic, it's the balance of:
fiber (3 g/cup for strawberries, 1.3 g per large donut)
vitamins and minerals (vitamin c, manganese, vitamin D etc. for strawberries, donut has is not a good source of any vitamins or minerals)
antioxidants and phytonutrients (strawberries yes, donut no)
protein (1g/cup strawberries, large donut has more at 3.3 g)
lower total sugar (7g/cup strawberries, 18 g for large donut)
lower total calories (49/cup strawberries, 303 for large donut)
The cup of strawberries is easier to fit into a restricted calorie diet, has more fiber and overall nutrition, and for me at least, the 49 calories in the cup of strawberries is more filling than the 303 calories in the donut. If I am eating fewer calories, I prefer ones that fill me up, and don't trigger cravings.
I get that some people, especially those who are recomping or are otherwise very active, sugar is a part of their dietary plan. If you are active enough to offset the risks of consuming high amounts of added sugars, that's fine. I understand that other people do not have cravings triggered by foods with added sugars. and I'm happy for them, but I do. I understand others have binges when they restrict foods, but I'm one of those who are more likely to have cravings and binge when I include foods with added sugars. There are many paths to successful weight loss, and part of the journey is finding out what eating habits support weight loss for yourself. The path that helps one dieter may hinder another.
Whether or not you chose to eat less processed food to decrease added sugar intake, good luck on the journey OP
I simply said that one form of sugar is not better than another..
nothing in your long winded reply addresses that...
so only those that recomping and "active" and eat sugar?
You were responding to "Eating strawberries is the same as eating a donut"
with "keep believing that one form of sugar is somehow magically better than the other form of sugar". I responded that the differences in impact between the sugars in the donut and strawberries weren't magical, they were a function of amount and context (and personal susceptability to sugar cravings).
Some people think CICO is simple, and couch their arguments in blunt terms. I find a more long-winded explanation to be more....explanatory.
Lots of people eat sugar. Lots of people are overweight.
If someone is eating lots of added sugars they are at risk of increased fat in their liver and visceral fat. Eating a lot of refined sugars can also increase risks of things like vascular disease and gallstones. Intense exercise targets visceral fat, increases insulin sensitivity, improves cardiovascular health. and lowers the risk of gallstones (among other health effects). The intense exercise mitigates the negative effects of the added sugars. The extra carbohydrate helps with athletic performance. Someone who is sedendary does not need extra carbohydrates, and is more likely to suffer ill effects from eating foods with a lot of calories and low nutritional value (added sugar).
It's a balancing act. Someone with 2400 calories to go through a day has more discretionary calories (room for "empty" calories) than someone with 1200 calories to eat a day. Allowing protein calories, or nutrition to fall low in order to eat added sugars in a 1200 calorie diet can have negative long-term effects.
Calories tend to be lower in whole foods that are sweet (fruit) than they are in processed foods that are sweet (donuts/cookies), but even when they aren't (eating 1/6 donut instead of a whole), the effect of the calories on the body (and the nutrition that comes with them) aren't the same. Equal =/= same.
One form of sugar (fruit) is better than another form of sugar (donut) - for me. I get to eat more of the fruit and stay in my goals, the fruit will make me healthier, more regular, and will help prevent cancer. As there is less fructose in the fruit, it is less likely to be stored in my liver, as it is more likely to be metabolized as it is digested. The sugar in the donut will encourage my body to store the fat in the donut, if I don't burn 300 calories in the amout of time it takes to digest/metabolize it. The amount of sugar in the fruit is low, and the fiber and water makes the fruit filling, so I'm likely to stop at (or generally before) a one cup serving, but the sucrose in the donut is not, so I'm likely to eat more than 1 donut, or eat again soon after eating the donut. It may also trigger cravings, leading me to have to work harder to stay on my diet. And, I'm lazy. I'd rather eat smart than use willpower.
And strawberries taste better...maybe that's the magic
You say all this, and... I'm one of those with few discretionary calories.
I agree with you... to a point.
You know what? Sometimes, it's just as simple as "I want a damned donut." I'm not more likely to eat more than 1 donut, because I'm in charge of my food choices. I'm not more likely to eat something again soon after eating the donut, because I'll time my consumption of it properly. It won't trigger cravings because I know that a sugary treat now and then just doesn't do that. I'm also in charge of what goes in my mouth, so I'm not at the mercy of any sorts of cravings anyway.
Willpower is a muscle. Exercise it, and it develops strength. I don't know. Maybe I have an edge because I have celiac disease. A whole bunch of foods HAD to be avoided and I got really good at telling myself NO really fast when I was diagnosed.
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Have you tried increasing your fats? I find that if I try to cut sugar on a calorie restricted diet then I just keep craving. I eat sugar, my blood sugar spikes and insulin is released to remove the sugar from my blood and stores it in my muscle and fat cells (simplified). It seems a lot of folks on this forum can moderate their sugar intake and keep within their daily allowance of calories. I personally find this more difficult. By eating fat I am not nearly as hungry and after a couple of days my cravings subsided. I don't mean that I still would not love a donut, rather that I can turn it down without obsessing. It only took a couple of days to reduce the cravings, and eating more fat was what allowed me to get over the sugar craving. Just my experience, maybe it will help you.0
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »We have peanut M&Ms http://www.uk.mms.com/nutrition/
Pfft - everyone has peanut M&M's - I'm talking Peanut Butter M&M's - mmmm
I put in peanut butter M & M's and came up with that image. Are you all saying those aren't real?
They're good, but they're not peanut butter M&M's
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »We have peanut M&Ms http://www.uk.mms.com/nutrition/
Pfft - everyone has peanut M&M's - I'm talking Peanut Butter M&M's - mmmm
I put in peanut butter M & M's and came up with that image. Are you all saying those aren't real?
They're good, but they're not peanut butter M&M's
Fine. I found some that are are real.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »prettykitty1515 wrote: »mymodernbabylon wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I'm older. When I was a kid, we didn't have sugary treats all the time, they were occasional things, like just for dessert after Sunday dinner or during the holidays. I had come to the point where I was ending every meal with a sweet! That was just ridiculous. The approach when I was a kid was much more moderate. I think that model is much more sane.
So as I child you only had fruit "occasionally"?
I believe that she meant sugary treats like candy, cookies and cake, not fruit (which I've never heard referred to as a sugary treat).
Sugar in fruit is still sugar.mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I'm older. When I was a kid, we didn't have sugary treats all the time, they were occasional things, like just for dessert after Sunday dinner or during the holidays. I had come to the point where I was ending every meal with a sweet! That was just ridiculous. The approach when I was a kid was much more moderate. I think that model is much more sane.
So as I child you only had fruit "occasionally"?
I don't consider fruit a "sugary treat", do you?
Sugar in fruit is still sugar.
Not sure why people think just because it is fruit the sugar is somehow different.
Right. Eating strawberries is the same as eating a donut. Just keep believing that.
keep believing that one form of sugar is somehow magically better than the other form of sugar...
It's not magic, it's the balance of:
fiber (3 g/cup for strawberries, 1.3 g per large donut)
vitamins and minerals (vitamin c, manganese, vitamin D etc. for strawberries, donut has is not a good source of any vitamins or minerals)
antioxidants and phytonutrients (strawberries yes, donut no)
protein (1g/cup strawberries, large donut has more at 3.3 g)
lower total sugar (7g/cup strawberries, 18 g for large donut)
lower total calories (49/cup strawberries, 303 for large donut)
The cup of strawberries is easier to fit into a restricted calorie diet, has more fiber and overall nutrition, and for me at least, the 49 calories in the cup of strawberries is more filling than the 303 calories in the donut. If I am eating fewer calories, I prefer ones that fill me up, and don't trigger cravings.
I get that some people, especially those who are recomping or are otherwise very active, sugar is a part of their dietary plan. If you are active enough to offset the risks of consuming high amounts of added sugars, that's fine. I understand that other people do not have cravings triggered by foods with added sugars. and I'm happy for them, but I do. I understand others have binges when they restrict foods, but I'm one of those who are more likely to have cravings and binge when I include foods with added sugars. There are many paths to successful weight loss, and part of the journey is finding out what eating habits support weight loss for yourself. The path that helps one dieter may hinder another.
Whether or not you chose to eat less processed food to decrease added sugar intake, good luck on the journey OP
I simply said that one form of sugar is not better than another..
nothing in your long winded reply addresses that...
so only those that recomping and "active" and eat sugar?
You were responding to "Eating strawberries is the same as eating a donut"
with "keep believing that one form of sugar is somehow magically better than the other form of sugar". I responded that the differences in impact between the sugars in the donut and strawberries weren't magical, they were a function of amount and context (and personal susceptability to sugar cravings).
Some people think CICO is simple, and couch their arguments in blunt terms. I find a more long-winded explanation to be more....explanatory.
Lots of people eat sugar. Lots of people are overweight.
If someone is eating lots of added sugars they are at risk of increased fat in their liver and visceral fat. Eating a lot of refined sugars can also increase risks of things like vascular disease and gallstones. Intense exercise targets visceral fat, increases insulin sensitivity, improves cardiovascular health. and lowers the risk of gallstones (among other health effects). The intense exercise mitigates the negative effects of the added sugars. The extra carbohydrate helps with athletic performance. Someone who is sedendary does not need extra carbohydrates, and is more likely to suffer ill effects from eating foods with a lot of calories and low nutritional value (added sugar).
It's a balancing act. Someone with 2400 calories to go through a day has more discretionary calories (room for "empty" calories) than someone with 1200 calories to eat a day. Allowing protein calories, or nutrition to fall low in order to eat added sugars in a 1200 calorie diet can have negative long-term effects.
Calories tend to be lower in whole foods that are sweet (fruit) than they are in processed foods that are sweet (donuts/cookies), but even when they aren't (eating 1/6 donut instead of a whole), the effect of the calories on the body (and the nutrition that comes with them) aren't the same. Equal =/= same.
One form of sugar (fruit) is better than another form of sugar (donut) - for me. I get to eat more of the fruit and stay in my goals, the fruit will make me healthier, more regular, and will help prevent cancer. As there is less fructose in the fruit, it is less likely to be stored in my liver, as it is more likely to be metabolized as it is digested. The sugar in the donut will encourage my body to store the fat in the donut, if I don't burn 300 calories in the amout of time it takes to digest/metabolize it. The amount of sugar in the fruit is low, and the fiber and water makes the fruit filling, so I'm likely to stop at (or generally before) a one cup serving, but the sucrose in the donut is not, so I'm likely to eat more than 1 donut, or eat again soon after eating the donut. It may also trigger cravings, leading me to have to work harder to stay on my diet. And, I'm lazy. I'd rather eat smart than use willpower.
And strawberries taste better...maybe that's the magic
You say all this, and... I'm one of those with few discretionary calories.
I agree with you... to a point.
You know what? Sometimes, it's just as simple as "I want a damned donut." I'm not more likely to eat more than 1 donut, because I'm in charge of my food choices. I'm not more likely to eat something again soon after eating the donut, because I'll time my consumption of it properly. It won't trigger cravings because I know that a sugary treat now and then just doesn't do that. I'm also in charge of what goes in my mouth, so I'm not at the mercy of any sorts of cravings anyway.
Willpower is a muscle. Exercise it, and it develops strength. I don't know. Maybe I have an edge because I have celiac disease. A whole bunch of foods HAD to be avoided and I got really good at telling myself NO really fast when I was diagnosed.
I'm very happy that you aren't at the mercy of any cravings. The same is not true for me. Piqued by the arguments on the posts, and figuring I needed to slow my rate of weight loss, I decided to try including treats in my days to see how it would go. I bought some Travelling Joe's 72% dark chocolate squares, with the plan of eating 1 a day with a tablespoon of walnuts.
I had five squares the first day. The next day I managed to wrestle myself down to 3 squares. I had the second square on the third day, and was going nuts from cravings, before I remembered my "crave blocking" foods. I know it isn't scientific, but it works for me. A celery stick later, and I was mercifully free from the cravings.
On the following couple of days, I tried playing around with timing, and eating them with other foods. I still ended up with cravings, and needing my celery sticks.
I hate cravings. That frantic, fixated, shaky, out-of-control feeling. The anxiety and panic ramping up, while having to still be sane enough to take care of my family and home. By reducing my added sugar intake I've managed to almost eliminate them during this diet. I simply do not have the willpower to eat within a defict if I am constantly wracked by cravings and fixated on sweets. The harder I try the worse it gets. I would far rather not eat the sweet at all, than have to deal with the cravings after. For special occassions (less than once a month), sure, but not every day. I don't know why I feel this way when other people don't. Maybe it's because I'm diabetic (under control without medication). Based on what I've read, however, I'm not the only one who benefits from controlling sweets.
I've battled depression for about three decades. Having confidence in my willpower or self-control is not going to happen. Fortunately I haven't needed willpower or self-control to lose 113 pounds, I just needed to pay attention to my body, and eat in a way that worked for it. If that earns me accusations of ignorance and not having self-control, I'm o.k. with that, as long as I get to not be morbidly obese anymore. Congratulations on your successes, and best wishes to everyone 0 -
You should do what works for you. I generally assume people have the good sense to (eventually) figure out what works for them, and only argue when you extrapolate from what's good for you to what's good in a general sense or for others. Mamapeach's experience is much more like mine.0
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »We have peanut M&Ms http://www.uk.mms.com/nutrition/
Pfft - everyone has peanut M&M's - I'm talking Peanut Butter M&M's - mmmm
I put in peanut butter M & M's and came up with that image. Are you all saying those aren't real?
They're good, but they're not peanut butter M&M's
Fine. I found some that are are real.
Yay - that's the beauty's0
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