Complete Beginner-Can I really gain on a deficit?
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
There is always some CNS programming going on, it never really stops, but the initial gains will be rather short. I'm not sure exactly since it will vary from person to person, but probably the first three or so will be the major gains there. You will see some hypertrophy as well but not as much once the neuro gains taper off. You will know when you've lost the neuro gains because your strength gains will dry up rather quickly and you will start to hit plateaus. This is the indication that you are past those initial CNS gains and that you will have to fight for hypertrophy, which is much slower to gain.
Sorry, I'm not really good at guessing body fat from photos but there are some who do a good job at it and they might chime in.
The major CNS programming will last the first three what? weeks? months? Does that mean that it is essentially a waste of time to run a hypertrophy oriented program (such as All Pro's) during this time period when the CNS is being reprogrammed, as opposed to running a strength oriented program (such as Starting Strength)?
It depends really. Novice programs take advantage of the CNS adaptation and still add some decent muscle. It's not like you won't put on muscle at all while you are maxing out CNS efficiencies, it just won't be as easy as once those neurological gains are reduced. I'm not familiar with All Pro but I would work on strength before body building since it helps to condition you body while building strength. Don't forget that strength and gains are related.
However, the choice is based on your goals so you might want to jump right into All Pro but if you aren't seeing gains you want remember that you can always go to a strength program and then back to building. It's not like it's a one way trip.
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I realize it's only been like 2 days- but don't over think it- it's lifting not brain surgery- there is some trial and error- and you have to really REALLY release yourself to the nothing that YOU control this process- you have to TRUST the process- but you're in control of it- but it's like steering a boat- you can't be micromanaging the rudders- you have to stand at the helm- point the ship in the direction and go.
Don't over think it.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
It depends really. Novice programs take advantage of the CNS adaptation and still add some decent muscle. It's not like you won't put on muscle at all while you are maxing out CNS efficiencies, it just won't be as easy as once those neurological gains are reduced. I'm not familiar with All Pro but I would work on strength before body building since it helps to condition you body while building strength. Don't forget that strength and gains are related.
However, the choice is based on your goals so you might want to jump right into All Pro but if you aren't seeing gains you want remember that you can always go to a strength program and then back to building. It's not like it's a one way trip.
Okay, can you clarify something for me please. Is it that your muscle gains (hypertrophy) will be better before or after your CNS has fully adapted?I realize it's only been like 2 days- but don't over think it- it's lifting not brain surgery- there is some trial and error- and you have to really REALLY release yourself to the nothing that YOU control this process- you have to TRUST the process- but you're in control of it- but it's like steering a boat- you can't be micromanaging the rudders- you have to stand at the helm- point the ship in the direction and go.
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Don't over think it.
I'll try to put myself fully into this process, and I realize that I can't micromanage everything. I guess it's just that I really want to ensure that I do this properly and thus want to ensure that I do everything to that I actually can control to the best of my abilities.
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^ bro you are overthinking it...eat, lift, hit calorie/macro/micro goals...repeat and adjust as necessary0
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So, I've decided to start the All Pro program this week after testing my 10RM last week and everything. I'm going to just jump into it but I'm finding it hard to get enough protein in. Can anyone recommend some advice with regards to this please?
I made that topic some time after this one. This post was made to ask if one can gain muscle while on a deficit (although I've decided to not go the deficit route), while that post was asking if I was even ready to bulk at all, and was created after I was only able to solicit one response with regards to my BF% (at the time) on this, the weight gain forum (I also figured that my thread title had nothing to do with BF% at all, thus the veterans at estimating BF% [referenced by Wheelhouse15] might not have been inclined to read this thread. So I decided to make a thread that specifically targeted that group [and in a more relevant forum] in an attempt to garner more estimations and thus make a more informed decision as to whether I should bulk or not).0 -
I think in general, it is difficult to gain muscle mass during a caloric deficit but everyone is different. For example, I have been lifting for a while and went through a dirty bulk phase and gained about 5 lbs of muscle over a year period and then just went into a cut phase and gained 5 lbs more muscle in three months while in a serious caloric deficit but I was pumping in a good amount of protein. All of this was confirmed by a complete medical body scan prior to my program and about three months in. I plan on getting another scan again in about another month to see if I will continue to gain, level out or start to lose muscle at which point I'll probably start eating maintenance or slightly below. So, it can be done, just not everyone can do it and it requires a lot of attention to your diet and program.0
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I think in general, it is difficult to gain muscle mass during a caloric deficit but everyone is different. For example, I have been lifting for a while and went through a dirty bulk phase and gained about 5 lbs of muscle over a year period and then just went into a cut phase and gained 5 lbs more muscle in three months while in a serious caloric deficit but I was pumping in a good amount of protein. All of this was confirmed by a complete medical body scan prior to my program and about three months in. I plan on getting another scan again in about another month to see if I will continue to gain, level out or start to lose muscle at which point I'll probably start eating maintenance or slightly below. So, it can be done, just not everyone can do it and it requires a lot of attention to your diet and program.
Great work, congrats on the serious gains!0 -
I think in general, it is difficult to gain muscle mass during a caloric deficit but everyone is different. For example, I have been lifting for a while and went through a dirty bulk phase and gained about 5 lbs of muscle over a year period and then just went into a cut phase and gained 5 lbs more muscle in three months while in a serious caloric deficit but I was pumping in a good amount of protein. All of this was confirmed by a complete medical body scan prior to my program and about three months in. I plan on getting another scan again in about another month to see if I will continue to gain, level out or start to lose muscle at which point I'll probably start eating maintenance or slightly below. So, it can be done, just not everyone can do it and it requires a lot of attention to your diet and program.
That sounds amazing, did you lift with a strength or hypertrophy oriented program? Also, approximately how much protein are you talking about, because at this point in time I don't even know how to get 150 g of protein in on a daily basis. Also, how big a deficit were you on (i.e. how many pounds were you expected to lose each week)? What kind of center does one have to visit to get these types of scans done?0 -
I think in general, it is difficult to gain muscle mass during a caloric deficit but everyone is different. For example, I have been lifting for a while and went through a dirty bulk phase and gained about 5 lbs of muscle over a year period and then just went into a cut phase and gained 5 lbs more muscle in three months while in a serious caloric deficit but I was pumping in a good amount of protein. All of this was confirmed by a complete medical body scan prior to my program and about three months in. I plan on getting another scan again in about another month to see if I will continue to gain, level out or start to lose muscle at which point I'll probably start eating maintenance or slightly below. So, it can be done, just not everyone can do it and it requires a lot of attention to your diet and program.
That sounds amazing, did you lift with a strength or hypertrophy oriented program? Also, approximately how much protein are you talking about, because at this point in time I don't even know how to get 150 g of protein in on a daily basis. Also, how big a deficit were you on (i.e. how many pounds were you expected to lose each week)? What kind of center does one have to visit to get these types of scans done?
Medical scan is called a DEXA and you should be able to find one in your area with an online search.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
Medical scan is called a DEXA and you should be able to find one in your area with an online search.
Thank you. I'll call around to see if anyone does it though I highly doubt it since I don't live in the USA and I've never heard of such a procedure being performed here. Also, do you have any recommendations for calorie and protein rich foods? Like right now, I still feel full from lunch and am probably going to have to try to force myself to eat more so as to attempt to reach my protein and calorie goals for the day. I feel like my stomach legitimately shrank on the year-long cut. I feel full after eating 1/4 of what I used to, so I don't even know how I'm going to maintain a daily surplus.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
Medical scan is called a DEXA and you should be able to find one in your area with an online search.
Thank you. I'll call around to see if anyone does it though I highly doubt it since I don't live in the USA and I've never heard of such a procedure being performed here. Also, do you have any recommendations for calorie and protein rich foods? Like right now, I still feel full from lunch and am probably going to have to try to force myself to eat more so as to attempt to reach my protein and calorie goals for the day. I feel like my stomach legitimately shrank on the year-long cut. I feel full after eating 1/4 of what I used to, so I don't even know how I'm going to maintain a daily surplus.
Depends on how much calories you have left but a good cheese burger or fried chicken would work well. If you don't have as many calories than take the skin off of the friend chicken or eat the burger without the bun.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
Depends on how much calories you have left but a good cheese burger or fried chicken would work well. If you don't have as many calories than take the skin off of the friend chicken or eat the burger without the bun.
Right now I have a little over 1000 calories left and 80 grams of protein (and this is after taking a Whey shake). Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll have to seriously reconstruct my diet to make more "space" for those kinds of foods.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
Depends on how much calories you have left but a good cheese burger or fried chicken would work well. If you don't have as many calories than take the skin off of the friend chicken or eat the burger without the bun.
Right now I have a little over 1000 calories left and 80 grams of protein (and this is after taking a Whey shake). Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll have to seriously reconstruct my diet to make more "space" for those kinds of foods.
What's your protein target? 80g is a lot for the last 1000 cals.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
Depends on how much calories you have left but a good cheese burger or fried chicken would work well. If you don't have as many calories than take the skin off of the friend chicken or eat the burger without the bun.
Right now I have a little over 1000 calories left and 80 grams of protein (and this is after taking a Whey shake). Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll have to seriously reconstruct my diet to make more "space" for those kinds of foods.
What's your protein target? 80g is a lot for the last 1000 cals.
i am usually over protein by after lunch ..LOL ..
I get way too much protein …
just eat about 4 serving of ice cream and some cookies…boom 1000 calories and it should get your close on protein ...0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
Depends on how much calories you have left but a good cheese burger or fried chicken would work well. If you don't have as many calories than take the skin off of the friend chicken or eat the burger without the bun.
Right now I have a little over 1000 calories left and 80 grams of protein (and this is after taking a Whey shake). Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll have to seriously reconstruct my diet to make more "space" for those kinds of foods.
What's your protein target? 80g is a lot for the last 1000 cals.
i am usually over protein by after lunch ..LOL ..
I get way too much protein …
just eat about 4 serving of ice cream and some cookies…boom 1000 calories and it should get your close on protein ...
Well we all know that ice cream IS the answer to all thing!
A chicken breast and a couple servings of ice cream should do the trick as well. 0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
Depends on how much calories you have left but a good cheese burger or fried chicken would work well. If you don't have as many calories than take the skin off of the friend chicken or eat the burger without the bun.
Right now I have a little over 1000 calories left and 80 grams of protein (and this is after taking a Whey shake). Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll have to seriously reconstruct my diet to make more "space" for those kinds of foods.
What's your protein target? 80g is a lot for the last 1000 cals.
i am usually over protein by after lunch ..LOL ..
I get way too much protein …
just eat about 4 serving of ice cream and some cookies…boom 1000 calories and it should get your close on protein ...
Well we all know that ice cream IS the answer to all thing! A chicken breast and a couple servings of ice cream should do the trick as well.
sometimes I take a serving of protein powder, a few servings of ice cream, some milk, blend it all together = protein milk shake….0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »What's your protein target? 80g is a lot for the last 1000 cals.
My protein target is 152 g.
i am usually over protein by after lunch ..LOL ..
I get way too much protein …
just eat about 4 serving of ice cream and some cookies…boom 1000 calories and it should get your close on protein ...
Too much protein? lol That's a nice problem to have. What do you do to get so much in because chicken only has about 20g. So I'd have to eat like 8 pieces of chicken in a day to reach my goal. I've tried to offset this by drinking cow's milk but it's not the most pleasant thing to consume.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »What's your protein target? 80g is a lot for the last 1000 cals.
My protein target is 152 g.
i am usually over protein by after lunch ..LOL ..
I get way too much protein …
just eat about 4 serving of ice cream and some cookies…boom 1000 calories and it should get your close on protein ...
Too much protein? lol That's a nice problem to have. What do you do to get so much in because chicken only has about 20g. So I'd have to eat like 8 pieces of chicken in a day to reach my goal. I've tried to offset this by drinking cow's milk but it's not the most pleasant thing to consume.
My goal is also about 155g but I rarely have an issue getting to it. Sometimes I need to do a couple shakes but usually just one shake a day works. I find going to the grocery store and grabbing packs of lunch meat really helps for a quick snack as does beef jerky.
Oh, and a chicken breast should have about 40-50g.
ETA just checked, KFC uses smaller chicken breasts so it's about 38g, and a boneless skinless fillet is about 20g, but they are small.0
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