Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss
Mr_Knight
Posts: 9,532 Member
I now have three years worth of experience and data to draw on. I also have almost the same amount of data for my partner, who is a PhD biomedical researcher, so as extensive as my data is, hers is even more impressive. From this I make the following observations...
1. My lightly-active TDEE is 2900-ish, confirmed by maintaining maintenance
2. I can do 1600 cal/day (ish) for a max of ~2 weeks before I binge
3. I can do 2000 cal/day (ish) for a max of ~3 weeks before I binge
4. I can do 2700 cal/day (ish) more or less indefinitely (longest streak is 4 months without a binge, and that was holiday-induced)
Now here's the interesting bit. That 2700 calorie "indefinitely" level is fairly constant for a wide variety of activity levels. It works from 3 walks a week right up to 3 runs + a couple of cycles + 2x swimming a week. That's a range of (average) deficits from <200 (ie, basically nothing) up to a deficit of about 600 calories/day.
When activity burn goes above that, I need to compensate. So, for example, at 3000 calories/day I was able to maintain a TDEE of about 3600 cal/day.
The numbers for my partner are different, of course, due to gender/size differences. But the same pattern exists there - there's a "comfortable" level of eating that supports significant deficits IF those deficits are created primarily through exercise rather than through a significant drop in calories.
I'm not going to claim this pattern holds for everyone. I was a high level athlete into and past college, competing at a semi-professional (ie minor league) level. I love playing sports, so it's quite possible I'm predisposed to this kind of "set point". I accept that others may not be - in fact, evolutionary processes being what they are, I suspect others won't be.
NOTE 1: Those who know me here know I'm extremely conservative/correct on exercise burns, compared to what most people are logging for similar activity. I must have hundreds of posts correcting other people's burn claims. So to compare my burn numbers to typical MFPers numbers, double mine.
NOTE 2: I've been on MFP long enough to know there are a bunch of pedantic fight-pickers, so let me say this explicitly: weight loss was 100% determined by caloric deficit. What is under discussion here is the method of creating a long term caloric deficit.
1. My lightly-active TDEE is 2900-ish, confirmed by maintaining maintenance
2. I can do 1600 cal/day (ish) for a max of ~2 weeks before I binge
3. I can do 2000 cal/day (ish) for a max of ~3 weeks before I binge
4. I can do 2700 cal/day (ish) more or less indefinitely (longest streak is 4 months without a binge, and that was holiday-induced)
Now here's the interesting bit. That 2700 calorie "indefinitely" level is fairly constant for a wide variety of activity levels. It works from 3 walks a week right up to 3 runs + a couple of cycles + 2x swimming a week. That's a range of (average) deficits from <200 (ie, basically nothing) up to a deficit of about 600 calories/day.
When activity burn goes above that, I need to compensate. So, for example, at 3000 calories/day I was able to maintain a TDEE of about 3600 cal/day.
The numbers for my partner are different, of course, due to gender/size differences. But the same pattern exists there - there's a "comfortable" level of eating that supports significant deficits IF those deficits are created primarily through exercise rather than through a significant drop in calories.
I'm not going to claim this pattern holds for everyone. I was a high level athlete into and past college, competing at a semi-professional (ie minor league) level. I love playing sports, so it's quite possible I'm predisposed to this kind of "set point". I accept that others may not be - in fact, evolutionary processes being what they are, I suspect others won't be.
NOTE 1: Those who know me here know I'm extremely conservative/correct on exercise burns, compared to what most people are logging for similar activity. I must have hundreds of posts correcting other people's burn claims. So to compare my burn numbers to typical MFPers numbers, double mine.
NOTE 2: I've been on MFP long enough to know there are a bunch of pedantic fight-pickers, so let me say this explicitly: weight loss was 100% determined by caloric deficit. What is under discussion here is the method of creating a long term caloric deficit.
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Replies
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I can actually buy into this. I am short, female, older, and with a sedentary job. I can eat at about 1500-1600 cals a day - which is a very small deficit for light activity levels - for a really long time. And I rarely felt the need to go over that even when I was up to 5 days a week of TKD, HIIT type classes, and light strength training. But 1200 a day and I am hangry in relatively short order. Not to see I didnt occasionally splurge o weekends- but it wasn't a binge - just a splurge. And not to say I didn't completely go over the edge for a few months due to stress, time management and food is delicious :P
I wish I was tall and young and had such a high TDEE - cause food. LOL0 -
Having a higher TDEE is awesome. :drinker:
Until there's a famine.
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I'm sure a fight's about to happen, but I feel the same as you do, also just based on my own personal experiences. 1200 a day is completely undoable for me. 1500 is totally sustainable. Whether I work out or not - the only difference that makes is whether I lose or gain weight on those calories.
And I also wish I were young and tall. And possibly a man.0 -
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"Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss For You, OP " (ftfy)
Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
LOL
Counterpoint: it doesn't matter whether or not I exercise, I can tailor my eating habits to lose 1, 2, 3, or more pounds a week whether I exercise or not. I have 3 years of data.
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Who's Virginia? I never got to meet her when Train introduced her to me in that song. )joke)
Seriously, who's Virginia0 -
SergeantSausage wrote: »Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
As I explicitly said in the OP...I'm not going to claim this pattern holds for everyone...it's quite possible I'm predisposed to this kind of "set point"....I accept that others may not be....0 -
anaisbutterfly7 wrote: »Seriously, who's Virginia
It's an idiomatic expression.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes,_Virginia,_there_is_a_Santa_Claus
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Cool data and observations. I wonder what effect larger deficit induced through activity will have on lean mass preservation. Also, do you notice any effect on exercise performance?0
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anaisbutterfly7 wrote: »Seriously, who's Virginia
It's an idiomatic expression.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes,_Virginia,_there_is_a_Santa_Claus
Oooooooooooooh, I see. I thought you were calling out a specific MFP member. Knowing this makes me feel more comfortable with the thread.
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girlviernes wrote: »Cool data and observations. I wonder what effect larger deficit induced through activity will have on lean mass preservation. Also, do you notice any effect on exercise performance?
If I under-eat (increase the deficit) - especially under-carb - performance suffers, a lot. It's not subtle, it's like hitting a wall. I attribute that to blowing out glycogen reserves, but am open to alternate explanations.0 -
SergeantSausage wrote: »"Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss For You, OP " (ftfy)
Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
LOL
Counterpoint: it doesn't matter whether or not I exercise, I can tailor my eating habits to lose 1, 2, 3, or more pounds a week whether I exercise or not. I have 3 years of data.
Did you read?
ETA a 2nd part to my question: AND comprehend?
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SergeantSausage wrote: »"Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss For You, OP " (ftfy)
Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
LOL
Counterpoint: it doesn't matter whether or not I exercise, I can tailor my eating habits to lose 1, 2, 3, or more pounds a week whether I exercise or not. I have 3 years of data.
I don't think he claimed it was impossible to lose weight any other way. Just that, for some people, adherence might be affected poorly by a lower caloric threshold and might be improved by a higher daily caloric goal combined with an increase in exercise. He's basically creating the deficit with less restriction and more burn rather than just restriction *shrug*
I'm all for any suggestions that may help someone with adherence - because lack of adherence (for whatever reason) is the cause of the 90+% oft quoted 'failure' rate in weight loss and then maintenance
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I agree Exercise matters It helps keep me in check
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I agree that exercise is important to weight loss.0
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SergeantSausage wrote: »"Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss For You, OP " (ftfy)
Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
LOL
Counterpoint: it doesn't matter whether or not I exercise, I can tailor my eating habits to lose 1, 2, 3, or more pounds a week whether I exercise or not. I have 3 years of data.
I don't think he claimed ...
Folks complaining about reading comprehension or what was being said/claimed:
Read the title of the thread again, and tell us again what is claimed... and then reread my post with the corrected title.
I am done here.
Have at it.
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SergeantSausage wrote: »"Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss For You, OP " (ftfy)
Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
LOL
Counterpoint: it doesn't matter whether or not I exercise, I can tailor my eating habits to lose 1, 2, 3, or more pounds a week whether I exercise or not. I have 3 years of data.
I don't think he claimed it was impossible to lose weight any other way. Just that, for some people, adherence might be affected poorly by a lower caloric threshold and might be improved by a higher daily caloric goal combined with an increase in exercise. He's basically creating the deficit with less restriction and more burn rather than just restriction *shrug*
I'm all for any suggestions that may help someone with adherence - because lack of adherence (for whatever reason) is the cause of the 90+% oft quoted 'failure' rate in weight loss and then maintenance
Agreed, this was my take on it, as well, and I think it makes perfect sense.0 -
I tend to find that it also is dependent on the percentages of macros. If I am light on protein (essential) and fat (essential) and heavy on carbs (non-essential), I tend to be hungrier, quicker, even on higher calories.0
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Yes, I can refrain from exercise and eat at a low calorie level and lose weight.
I find that's little enough food to make me uncomfortable and unlikely to stick to it. From my own stats (and I keep records about as thorough as yours) over the course of my diet so far, about 44% of my caloric deficit comes from exercise.
So yeah, for me, it matters.0 -
wonderfullymadebyhim wrote: »I tend to find that it also is dependent on the percentages of macros. If I am light on protein (essential) and fat (essential) and heavy on carbs (non-essential), I tend to be hungrier, quicker, even on higher calories.
absolutely. If I stick with lots of protein, fiber, fat, and an occasional treat, I have no problem with my 1500ish a day. If I cut back on the others in favor of carbs/sugar, I have more trouble. But, I have PCOS and IR- so YMMV
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SergeantSausage wrote: »"Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss For You, OP " (ftfy)
Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
LOL
Counterpoint: it doesn't matter whether or not I exercise, I can tailor my eating habits to lose 1, 2, 3, or more pounds a week whether I exercise or not. I have 3 years of data.
I don't think he claimed it was impossible to lose weight any other way. Just that, for some people, adherence might be affected poorly by a lower caloric threshold and might be improved by a higher daily caloric goal combined with an increase in exercise. He's basically creating the deficit with less restriction and more burn rather than just restriction *shrug*
I'm all for any suggestions that may help someone with adherence - because lack of adherence (for whatever reason) is the cause of the 90+% oft quoted 'failure' rate in weight loss and then maintenance
Agreed.0 -
Some people can read past the title.SergeantSausage wrote: »SergeantSausage wrote: »"Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss For You, OP " (ftfy)
Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
LOL
Counterpoint: it doesn't matter whether or not I exercise, I can tailor my eating habits to lose 1, 2, 3, or more pounds a week whether I exercise or not. I have 3 years of data.
I don't think he claimed ...
Folks complaining about reading comprehension or what was being said/claimed:
Read the title of the thread again, and tell us again what is claimed... and then reread my post with the corrected title.
I am done here.
Have at it.
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I'm 5'2 and my amount to lose is ridiculously low. I have to exercise 4 -5 times a week to bump myself up with a higher tdee to make eating at a deficit bareable0
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SergeantSausage wrote: »"Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss For You, OP " (ftfy)
Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
LOL
Counterpoint: it doesn't matter whether or not I exercise, I can tailor my eating habits to lose 1, 2, 3, or more pounds a week whether I exercise or not. I have 3 years of data.
Counterpoint: You want abs. You say so multiple times on your profile. Exercise is vital to your goal. Not just any exercise either.
Although judging by seeing you in other threads you just word vomit and leave. I rarely see you reply to rebuttals to your stance.0 -
I absolutely need the exercise. I don't think I could manage it without exercise. I'd have to eat so little that I'd never be able to do it.
I don't eat that much even WITH the exercise. I hover around 1200 - it averages out 12xx every month. And exercise. Still losing .5 - 1 pound a week, plus occasional whooshes. Without the exercise, I'd be sunk.
I don't argue with people who say it doesn't help, but I assume they're either dumb or purposely trying to start fights. Why else anyone would say exercise doesn't help you burn calories, I can't imagine.0 -
Interesting, I assume this is gross calorie consumption?
So when you cut 1300 cals and 900 cals and then binged, what were you eating? Was your diet restricting anything or were you an omnivore and was there any significant difference in weight to lose at each point?0 -
Having a higher TDEE is awesome. :drinker:
Until there's a famine.
Ooooh I will be so lucky when the famine hits. Until then...
I'm actually rather annoyed that your OP claim is quite true for me. I can see where I'd be able to maintain/lose on 1500 calories but I want 2000 per day minimum. This either means, quit whining and hit the 1500 cals (I'm holding my breath on that one), get fat, or exercise off the difference
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I think it might be a little different for everybody. I find exercise makes me hungry, and on top of that, there's some evidence that people tend to reduce NEAT after exercising (our bodies just don't want to lose weight!). And on top of that, again, being at the older, shorter end of the scale, proportionately, I don't burn a lot of calories when I exercise. Which means that proportionately, it doesn't increase my TDEE by much, and I can't eat much more accordingly. I'm never going to be able to create a "significant deficit" through exercise alone.
Now I'm not disagreeing, because my stats are specific to me. I'm all for exercise, and I think it might actually help weight loss in other subtle ways. And I do think compliance is key so well done on finding a way to keep that going while increasing your deficit!0
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