Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss
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Mr_Knight
Posts: 9,532 Member
I now have three years worth of experience and data to draw on. I also have almost the same amount of data for my partner, who is a PhD biomedical researcher, so as extensive as my data is, hers is even more impressive. From this I make the following observations...
1. My lightly-active TDEE is 2900-ish, confirmed by maintaining maintenance
2. I can do 1600 cal/day (ish) for a max of ~2 weeks before I binge
3. I can do 2000 cal/day (ish) for a max of ~3 weeks before I binge
4. I can do 2700 cal/day (ish) more or less indefinitely (longest streak is 4 months without a binge, and that was holiday-induced)
Now here's the interesting bit. That 2700 calorie "indefinitely" level is fairly constant for a wide variety of activity levels. It works from 3 walks a week right up to 3 runs + a couple of cycles + 2x swimming a week. That's a range of (average) deficits from <200 (ie, basically nothing) up to a deficit of about 600 calories/day.
When activity burn goes above that, I need to compensate. So, for example, at 3000 calories/day I was able to maintain a TDEE of about 3600 cal/day.
The numbers for my partner are different, of course, due to gender/size differences. But the same pattern exists there - there's a "comfortable" level of eating that supports significant deficits IF those deficits are created primarily through exercise rather than through a significant drop in calories.
I'm not going to claim this pattern holds for everyone. I was a high level athlete into and past college, competing at a semi-professional (ie minor league) level. I love playing sports, so it's quite possible I'm predisposed to this kind of "set point". I accept that others may not be - in fact, evolutionary processes being what they are, I suspect others won't be.
NOTE 1: Those who know me here know I'm extremely conservative/correct on exercise burns, compared to what most people are logging for similar activity. I must have hundreds of posts correcting other people's burn claims. So to compare my burn numbers to typical MFPers numbers, double mine.
NOTE 2: I've been on MFP long enough to know there are a bunch of pedantic fight-pickers, so let me say this explicitly: weight loss was 100% determined by caloric deficit. What is under discussion here is the method of creating a long term caloric deficit.
1. My lightly-active TDEE is 2900-ish, confirmed by maintaining maintenance
2. I can do 1600 cal/day (ish) for a max of ~2 weeks before I binge
3. I can do 2000 cal/day (ish) for a max of ~3 weeks before I binge
4. I can do 2700 cal/day (ish) more or less indefinitely (longest streak is 4 months without a binge, and that was holiday-induced)
Now here's the interesting bit. That 2700 calorie "indefinitely" level is fairly constant for a wide variety of activity levels. It works from 3 walks a week right up to 3 runs + a couple of cycles + 2x swimming a week. That's a range of (average) deficits from <200 (ie, basically nothing) up to a deficit of about 600 calories/day.
When activity burn goes above that, I need to compensate. So, for example, at 3000 calories/day I was able to maintain a TDEE of about 3600 cal/day.
The numbers for my partner are different, of course, due to gender/size differences. But the same pattern exists there - there's a "comfortable" level of eating that supports significant deficits IF those deficits are created primarily through exercise rather than through a significant drop in calories.
I'm not going to claim this pattern holds for everyone. I was a high level athlete into and past college, competing at a semi-professional (ie minor league) level. I love playing sports, so it's quite possible I'm predisposed to this kind of "set point". I accept that others may not be - in fact, evolutionary processes being what they are, I suspect others won't be.
NOTE 1: Those who know me here know I'm extremely conservative/correct on exercise burns, compared to what most people are logging for similar activity. I must have hundreds of posts correcting other people's burn claims. So to compare my burn numbers to typical MFPers numbers, double mine.
NOTE 2: I've been on MFP long enough to know there are a bunch of pedantic fight-pickers, so let me say this explicitly: weight loss was 100% determined by caloric deficit. What is under discussion here is the method of creating a long term caloric deficit.
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Replies
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I can actually buy into this. I am short, female, older, and with a sedentary job. I can eat at about 1500-1600 cals a day - which is a very small deficit for light activity levels - for a really long time. And I rarely felt the need to go over that even when I was up to 5 days a week of TKD, HIIT type classes, and light strength training. But 1200 a day and I am hangry in relatively short order. Not to see I didnt occasionally splurge o weekends- but it wasn't a binge - just a splurge. And not to say I didn't completely go over the edge for a few months due to stress, time management and food is delicious :P
I wish I was tall and young and had such a high TDEE - cause food. LOL0 -
Having a higher TDEE is awesome. :drinker:
Until there's a famine.0 -
I'm sure a fight's about to happen, but I feel the same as you do, also just based on my own personal experiences. 1200 a day is completely undoable for me. 1500 is totally sustainable. Whether I work out or not - the only difference that makes is whether I lose or gain weight on those calories.
And I also wish I were young and tall. And possibly a man.0 -
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"Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss For You, OP " (ftfy)
Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
LOL
Counterpoint: it doesn't matter whether or not I exercise, I can tailor my eating habits to lose 1, 2, 3, or more pounds a week whether I exercise or not. I have 3 years of data.
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Who's Virginia? I never got to meet her when Train introduced her to me in that song. )joke)
Seriously, who's Virginia0 -
SergeantSausage wrote: »Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
As I explicitly said in the OP...I'm not going to claim this pattern holds for everyone...it's quite possible I'm predisposed to this kind of "set point"....I accept that others may not be....0 -
anaisbutterfly7 wrote: »Seriously, who's Virginia
It's an idiomatic expression.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes,_Virginia,_there_is_a_Santa_Claus
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Cool data and observations. I wonder what effect larger deficit induced through activity will have on lean mass preservation. Also, do you notice any effect on exercise performance?0
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anaisbutterfly7 wrote: »Seriously, who's Virginia
It's an idiomatic expression.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes,_Virginia,_there_is_a_Santa_Claus
Oooooooooooooh, I see. I thought you were calling out a specific MFP member. Knowing this makes me feel more comfortable with the thread.
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girlviernes wrote: »Cool data and observations. I wonder what effect larger deficit induced through activity will have on lean mass preservation. Also, do you notice any effect on exercise performance?
If I under-eat (increase the deficit) - especially under-carb - performance suffers, a lot. It's not subtle, it's like hitting a wall. I attribute that to blowing out glycogen reserves, but am open to alternate explanations.0 -
SergeantSausage wrote: »"Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss For You, OP " (ftfy)
Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
LOL
Counterpoint: it doesn't matter whether or not I exercise, I can tailor my eating habits to lose 1, 2, 3, or more pounds a week whether I exercise or not. I have 3 years of data.
Did you read?
ETA a 2nd part to my question: AND comprehend?
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SergeantSausage wrote: »"Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss For You, OP " (ftfy)
Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
LOL
Counterpoint: it doesn't matter whether or not I exercise, I can tailor my eating habits to lose 1, 2, 3, or more pounds a week whether I exercise or not. I have 3 years of data.
I don't think he claimed it was impossible to lose weight any other way. Just that, for some people, adherence might be affected poorly by a lower caloric threshold and might be improved by a higher daily caloric goal combined with an increase in exercise. He's basically creating the deficit with less restriction and more burn rather than just restriction *shrug*
I'm all for any suggestions that may help someone with adherence - because lack of adherence (for whatever reason) is the cause of the 90+% oft quoted 'failure' rate in weight loss and then maintenance
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I agree Exercise matters It helps keep me in check
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I agree that exercise is important to weight loss.0
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SergeantSausage wrote: »"Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss For You, OP " (ftfy)
Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
LOL
Counterpoint: it doesn't matter whether or not I exercise, I can tailor my eating habits to lose 1, 2, 3, or more pounds a week whether I exercise or not. I have 3 years of data.
I don't think he claimed ...
Folks complaining about reading comprehension or what was being said/claimed:
Read the title of the thread again, and tell us again what is claimed... and then reread my post with the corrected title.
I am done here.
Have at it.
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SergeantSausage wrote: »"Yes, Virginia, Exercise Matters for Weight Loss For You, OP " (ftfy)
Both appealing to authority "a PhD biomedical researcher" AND a sample size of ... of ... exactly two ... lead me to this conclusion:
LOL
Counterpoint: it doesn't matter whether or not I exercise, I can tailor my eating habits to lose 1, 2, 3, or more pounds a week whether I exercise or not. I have 3 years of data.
I don't think he claimed it was impossible to lose weight any other way. Just that, for some people, adherence might be affected poorly by a lower caloric threshold and might be improved by a higher daily caloric goal combined with an increase in exercise. He's basically creating the deficit with less restriction and more burn rather than just restriction *shrug*
I'm all for any suggestions that may help someone with adherence - because lack of adherence (for whatever reason) is the cause of the 90+% oft quoted 'failure' rate in weight loss and then maintenance
Agreed, this was my take on it, as well, and I think it makes perfect sense.0 -
I tend to find that it also is dependent on the percentages of macros. If I am light on protein (essential) and fat (essential) and heavy on carbs (non-essential), I tend to be hungrier, quicker, even on higher calories.0
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Yes, I can refrain from exercise and eat at a low calorie level and lose weight.
I find that's little enough food to make me uncomfortable and unlikely to stick to it. From my own stats (and I keep records about as thorough as yours) over the course of my diet so far, about 44% of my caloric deficit comes from exercise.
So yeah, for me, it matters.0 -
wonderfullymadebyhim wrote: »I tend to find that it also is dependent on the percentages of macros. If I am light on protein (essential) and fat (essential) and heavy on carbs (non-essential), I tend to be hungrier, quicker, even on higher calories.
absolutely. If I stick with lots of protein, fiber, fat, and an occasional treat, I have no problem with my 1500ish a day. If I cut back on the others in favor of carbs/sugar, I have more trouble. But, I have PCOS and IR- so YMMV
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