Dirty Bulk
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »beastcompany wrote: »Problem #1, he is speaking in extremes, and also idealizing foods in their individual context as "healthy" or "unhealthy".
All of which is idiotic when it comes to considering a dietary approach to either phase of training (bulking or cutting).
The fact of the matter is that any food in it's individuality (meaning outside of your overall day's intake) is making NO DIRECT IMPACT on body composition or the results of your progress.
Extremes in any sense are a terrible way to discuss dieting. Yes, obviously is someone is doing nothing but eating Krispy Kremes and balancing it with protein shakes to hit their macros & calories...they're likely going to have a very deficient diet that is going to cause problems.
Vice-Versa, if someone is eating nothing but chicken, rice, and brocolli every damn meal they are also going to be very deficient and have health issues.
This. I find the more balance discussions of flexible dieting more applicable to general people. Few people I've seen post that you can eat 100% of anything and be healthy (until page 10 of a sugar debate).
It seems that most bulkers (at least that I've seen post here) focus on getting nutrient dense food and supplementing remaining calories with calorie dense foods that may be lacking nutrients. This balances to a well rounded overall diet.
I eat a lot of broccoli, cauliflower, oats and chicken as do most flexible dieters who are bulking here. I think the flexible/IIFM eaters are eating pretty similar for the vast majority of their foods as the clean eaters.
ETA Max, I hope you don't take it like we are piling up on you. I always enjoy your posts!
I honestly don't care if y'all pile on or not.
I thought it was a good write up....not saying I agree with it all, but it does give one something to think about...
For me it was are certain things that go into foods possibly less than optimal at helping towards muscle growth/development/gains....
I still firmly believe that you hit your macros for your goals, and also make sure you get foods in you that are nutrient dense...
Then your remainder calories can be whatever you want to be, and how your body responds.
For me, I know I am better when my extra calories come from carbs rather than fat.....
So I think the point of his write up was to inform people that just eating whatever you want to bulk is not smart....you still want to be smart about what you take in....i.e. like that quote by Alan above....
But putting on to much body fat during a bulk will affect hormonal signaling....
Very true, and the last statement is very important for anyone who is thinking of the GFH bulk.0 -
Does anybody else ever read the term "Dirty Bulk" and picture a huge crate of pornography at Costco?
No? Really... Maybe just me then...0 -
jenglish712 wrote: »Does anybody else ever read the term "Dirty Bulk" and picture a huge crate of pornography at Costco?
No? Really... Maybe just me then...
Now you've put a picture into my head!0 -
jenglish712 wrote: »Does anybody else ever read the term "Dirty Bulk" and picture a huge crate of pornography at Costco?
No? Really... Maybe just me then...
Yea, it's just you buddy
Nope, now Wheelhouse pictures it too.
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jenglish712 wrote: »Does anybody else ever read the term "Dirty Bulk" and picture a huge crate of pornography at Costco?
No? Really... Maybe just me then...
Honestly, that was my first thought
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1. No Attacks or Insults and No Reciprocation
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Oh - and no profanity.
Geez, guys. Keep it on topic, I'm begging you.
Davis0 -
1. No Attacks or Insults and No Reciprocation
a) Do not attack, mock, or otherwise insult others. You can respectfully disagree with the message or topic, but you cannot attack the messenger. This includes attacks against the user’s spelling or command of written English, or belittling a user for posting a duplicate topic.
b) If you are attacked by another user, and you reciprocate, you will also be subject to the same consequences. Defending yourself or a friend is not an excuse! Do not take matters into your own hands – instead, use the Report Post link to report an attack and we will be happy to handle the situation for you.
2. No Hi-Jacking, Trolling, or Flame-baiting
Please stay on-topic in an existing thread, and post new threads in the appropriate forum. Taking a thread off-topic is considered hi-jacking. Please either contribute politely and constructively to a topic, or move on without posting. This includes posts that encourage the drama in a topic to escalate, or posts intended to incite an uproar from the community.
Oh - and no profanity.
Geez, guys. Keep it on topic, I'm begging you.
Davis
This honestly was not needed here....
I personally don't feel insulted...0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »beastcompany wrote: »Problem #1, he is speaking in extremes, and also idealizing foods in their individual context as "healthy" or "unhealthy".
All of which is idiotic when it comes to considering a dietary approach to either phase of training (bulking or cutting).
The fact of the matter is that any food in it's individuality (meaning outside of your overall day's intake) is making NO DIRECT IMPACT on body composition or the results of your progress.
Extremes in any sense are a terrible way to discuss dieting. Yes, obviously is someone is doing nothing but eating Krispy Kremes and balancing it with protein shakes to hit their macros & calories...they're likely going to have a very deficient diet that is going to cause problems.
Vice-Versa, if someone is eating nothing but chicken, rice, and brocolli every damn meal they are also going to be very deficient and have health issues.
This. I find the more balance discussions of flexible dieting more applicable to general people. Few people I've seen post that you can eat 100% of anything and be healthy (until page 10 of a sugar debate).
It seems that most bulkers (at least that I've seen post here) focus on getting nutrient dense food and supplementing remaining calories with calorie dense foods that may be lacking nutrients. This balances to a well rounded overall diet.
I eat a lot of broccoli, cauliflower, oats and chicken as do most flexible dieters who are bulking here. I think the flexible/IIFM eaters are eating pretty similar for the vast majority of their foods as the clean eaters.
ETA Max, I hope you don't take it like we are piling up on you. I always enjoy your posts!
I honestly don't care if y'all pile on or not.
I thought it was a good write up....not saying I agree with it all, but it does give one something to think about...
For me it was are certain things that go into foods possibly less than optimal at helping towards muscle growth/development/gains....
I still firmly believe that you hit your macros for your goals, and also make sure you get foods in you that are nutrient dense...
Then your remainder calories can be whatever you want to be, and how your body responds.
For me, I know I am better when my extra calories come from carbs rather than fat.....
So I think the point of his write up was to inform people that just eating whatever you want to bulk is not smart....you still want to be smart about what you take in....i.e. like that quote by Alan above....
But putting on to much body fat during a bulk will affect hormonal signaling....
My real problem with the post was that he seemed to start off talking about two different things, but didn't really address both separately, and so it got kind of jumbled.
Starting off the points were:- Don't eat 10,000 calories a day, you'll put on too much fat.
- Don't eat solid crap, get a balance of foods so you can still get your daily nutrients.
And I'd agree with both of those points. But even though that's how it started out, the combination of the two seemed to lead to a weird extreme that didn't seem to get the message across as well as I would have liked. But, they are both points I think need to be made; I just wish each had been addressed individually.0 -
Ok, let's have a case study of our own, no paper no garbage studies, you eat whatever candy bar you want, anything classified as candy, not protien bars, eat 5 a day for two months, no brushing your teeth now, we want to see quick side effects, and I'll eat five apples a day, then we'll meet back here and show out teeth to each other and see what's better. Btw, like I said I prefer pears cause for one kit Kat bar you eat, I can eat two pears and maybe some cherries, that's my reasoning what's yours?
Dental hygiene aside... that is the point, I can have one Kit kat to meet my goal. So easy. At the end of the day, I already had my fruit, met my fibre goals, I'm stuffed. Last thing I want to do is shove my face with a bunch of pears. That's a recipe for a tummy ache. Don't get me wrong, I love me some pears, but in that case Kit Kat > pears. At least I wake up the next day not feeling like a bloated mess, bulking is difficult enough.
well put...0 -
1. No Attacks or Insults and No Reciprocation
a) Do not attack, mock, or otherwise insult others. You can respectfully disagree with the message or topic, but you cannot attack the messenger. This includes attacks against the user’s spelling or command of written English, or belittling a user for posting a duplicate topic.
b) If you are attacked by another user, and you reciprocate, you will also be subject to the same consequences. Defending yourself or a friend is not an excuse! Do not take matters into your own hands – instead, use the Report Post link to report an attack and we will be happy to handle the situation for you.
2. No Hi-Jacking, Trolling, or Flame-baiting
Please stay on-topic in an existing thread, and post new threads in the appropriate forum. Taking a thread off-topic is considered hi-jacking. Please either contribute politely and constructively to a topic, or move on without posting. This includes posts that encourage the drama in a topic to escalate, or posts intended to incite an uproar from the community.
Oh - and no profanity.
Geez, guys. Keep it on topic, I'm begging you.
Davis
This honestly was not needed here....
I personally don't feel insulted...
It wasn't directed at you Mity, it was some stuff the happened in the late night hours. All the posts are gone which is good.
Ah, roger that.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »beastcompany wrote: »Problem #1, he is speaking in extremes, and also idealizing foods in their individual context as "healthy" or "unhealthy".
All of which is idiotic when it comes to considering a dietary approach to either phase of training (bulking or cutting).
The fact of the matter is that any food in it's individuality (meaning outside of your overall day's intake) is making NO DIRECT IMPACT on body composition or the results of your progress.
Extremes in any sense are a terrible way to discuss dieting. Yes, obviously is someone is doing nothing but eating Krispy Kremes and balancing it with protein shakes to hit their macros & calories...they're likely going to have a very deficient diet that is going to cause problems.
Vice-Versa, if someone is eating nothing but chicken, rice, and brocolli every damn meal they are also going to be very deficient and have health issues.
This. I find the more balance discussions of flexible dieting more applicable to general people. Few people I've seen post that you can eat 100% of anything and be healthy (until page 10 of a sugar debate).
It seems that most bulkers (at least that I've seen post here) focus on getting nutrient dense food and supplementing remaining calories with calorie dense foods that may be lacking nutrients. This balances to a well rounded overall diet.
I eat a lot of broccoli, cauliflower, oats and chicken as do most flexible dieters who are bulking here. I think the flexible/IIFM eaters are eating pretty similar for the vast majority of their foods as the clean eaters.
ETA Max, I hope you don't take it like we are piling up on you. I always enjoy your posts!
I honestly don't care if y'all pile on or not.
I thought it was a good write up....not saying I agree with it all, but it does give one something to think about...
For me it was are certain things that go into foods possibly less than optimal at helping towards muscle growth/development/gains....
I still firmly believe that you hit your macros for your goals, and also make sure you get foods in you that are nutrient dense...
Then your remainder calories can be whatever you want to be, and how your body responds.
For me, I know I am better when my extra calories come from carbs rather than fat.....
So I think the point of his write up was to inform people that just eating whatever you want to bulk is not smart....you still want to be smart about what you take in....i.e. like that quote by Alan above....
But putting on to much body fat during a bulk will affect hormonal signaling....
My real problem with the post was that he seemed to start off talking about two different things, but didn't really address both separately, and so it got kind of jumbled.
Starting off the points were:- Don't eat 10,000 calories a day, you'll put on too much fat.
- Don't eat solid crap, get a balance of foods so you can still get your daily nutrients.
And I'd agree with both of those points. But even though that's how it started out, the combination of the two seemed to lead to a weird extreme that didn't seem to get the message across as well as I would have liked. But, they are both points I think need to be made; I just wish each had been addressed individually.
I can agree with that...
What piqued my interest is when he started talking about the various minerals and nutrients found in certain foods, that can have the opposite effect on what you are wanting to accomplish.
I think we all agree that w/ fitness models today, they are pretty much on some type of gear....that you don't get at GNC.
So if those minerals/chemicals they take aid in muscle growth and development, then why wouldn't the opposite hold true also?
Certain minerals/nutrients/chemicals can have a less than optimal/positive effect on muscle growth and development...
So for me I want to know these things, and why they have the effect they do.....
Lord knows I put in a lot of time on my body and my diet, so I want to make the most out of it, cause packing on muscle for me is like pulling teeth....0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »beastcompany wrote: »Problem #1, he is speaking in extremes, and also idealizing foods in their individual context as "healthy" or "unhealthy".
All of which is idiotic when it comes to considering a dietary approach to either phase of training (bulking or cutting).
The fact of the matter is that any food in it's individuality (meaning outside of your overall day's intake) is making NO DIRECT IMPACT on body composition or the results of your progress.
Extremes in any sense are a terrible way to discuss dieting. Yes, obviously is someone is doing nothing but eating Krispy Kremes and balancing it with protein shakes to hit their macros & calories...they're likely going to have a very deficient diet that is going to cause problems.
Vice-Versa, if someone is eating nothing but chicken, rice, and brocolli every damn meal they are also going to be very deficient and have health issues.
This. I find the more balance discussions of flexible dieting more applicable to general people. Few people I've seen post that you can eat 100% of anything and be healthy (until page 10 of a sugar debate).
It seems that most bulkers (at least that I've seen post here) focus on getting nutrient dense food and supplementing remaining calories with calorie dense foods that may be lacking nutrients. This balances to a well rounded overall diet.
I eat a lot of broccoli, cauliflower, oats and chicken as do most flexible dieters who are bulking here. I think the flexible/IIFM eaters are eating pretty similar for the vast majority of their foods as the clean eaters.
ETA Max, I hope you don't take it like we are piling up on you. I always enjoy your posts!
I honestly don't care if y'all pile on or not.
I thought it was a good write up....not saying I agree with it all, but it does give one something to think about...
For me it was are certain things that go into foods possibly less than optimal at helping towards muscle growth/development/gains....
I still firmly believe that you hit your macros for your goals, and also make sure you get foods in you that are nutrient dense...
Then your remainder calories can be whatever you want to be, and how your body responds.
For me, I know I am better when my extra calories come from carbs rather than fat.....
So I think the point of his write up was to inform people that just eating whatever you want to bulk is not smart....you still want to be smart about what you take in....i.e. like that quote by Alan above....
But putting on to much body fat during a bulk will affect hormonal signaling....
My real problem with the post was that he seemed to start off talking about two different things, but didn't really address both separately, and so it got kind of jumbled.
Starting off the points were:- Don't eat 10,000 calories a day, you'll put on too much fat.
- Don't eat solid crap, get a balance of foods so you can still get your daily nutrients.
And I'd agree with both of those points. But even though that's how it started out, the combination of the two seemed to lead to a weird extreme that didn't seem to get the message across as well as I would have liked. But, they are both points I think need to be made; I just wish each had been addressed individually.
So if those minerals/chemicals they take aid in muscle growth and development, then why wouldn't the opposite hold true also?
Certain minerals/nutrients/chemicals can have a less than optimal/positive effect on muscle growth and development...
To simply state though that '[x] vitamin/mineral aids in muscle growth & development', is not enough reasoning.
What about dose/context/total meal composition?
You'd need to know at what dose does [x] vitamin/mineral impact muscle development...to what extent...how does [x] vitamin/mineral act when consumed with partnered vitamins/minerals...what role does overall meal composition play?
There are FAR too many variables, and at the end of the day your overall dietary intake (calories and macros) is going to determine 99% of your results.
Minutia details such as having consumed *insert dose here* above required/recommended intake for this mineral/vitamin, is going to be that 1% that doesn't really matter.
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There are FAR too many variables, and at the end of the day your overall dietary intake (calories and macros) is going to determine 99% of your results.
Agree...and I said that above...hitting macros and calories should be first goal.
Never said anything otherwise....
But some said mineral/nutrient/chemical can create a sub-optimal environment for growth...
If someone came to you and said
"Hey, post workout, should my carb source be veggies or rice/potatoes?"
My guess is you would say go with the rice or potatoes, because the veggies are a less than optimal carb source for spiking insulin.
So for me and my own personal development, I will gladly take the knowledge of what things benefit muscle growth and what things do not.....0 -
There are FAR too many variables, and at the end of the day your overall dietary intake (calories and macros) is going to determine 99% of your results.
My guess is you would say go with the rice or potatoes, because the veggies are a less than optimal carb source for spiking insulin.
I would say whatever they prefer, because it is really irrelevant and the myth of spiking insulin post-workout has been long sense debunked.
Additionally, resistence training alone will create an "insulin spike"...so would simply ingesting protein.
The addition of a carbohydrate source post-workout does not benefit muscular development.
0 -
would be interested in reading that study.
And how does lifting spike insulin?
The addition of a carb source doesn't benefit muscle development?
Would also be interested in reading that paper.0 -
1. No Attacks or Insults and No Reciprocation
a) Do not attack, mock, or otherwise insult others. You can respectfully disagree with the message or topic, but you cannot attack the messenger. This includes attacks against the user’s spelling or command of written English, or belittling a user for posting a duplicate topic.
b) If you are attacked by another user, and you reciprocate, you will also be subject to the same consequences. Defending yourself or a friend is not an excuse! Do not take matters into your own hands – instead, use the Report Post link to report an attack and we will be happy to handle the situation for you.
2. No Hi-Jacking, Trolling, or Flame-baiting
Please stay on-topic in an existing thread, and post new threads in the appropriate forum. Taking a thread off-topic is considered hi-jacking. Please either contribute politely and constructively to a topic, or move on without posting. This includes posts that encourage the drama in a topic to escalate, or posts intended to incite an uproar from the community.
Oh - and no profanity.
Geez, guys. Keep it on topic, I'm begging you.
Davis
This honestly was not needed here....
I personally don't feel insulted...
It wasn't directed at you Mity, it was some stuff the happened in the late night hours. All the posts are gone which is good.
I missed it...0 -
beastcompany wrote: »
There are FAR too many variables, and at the end of the day your overall dietary intake (calories and macros) is going to determine 99% of your results.
My guess is you would say go with the rice or potatoes, because the veggies are a less than optimal carb source for spiking insulin.
I would say whatever they prefer, because it is really irrelevant and the myth of spiking insulin post-workout has been long sense debunked.
Additionally, resistence training alone will create an "insulin spike"...so would simply ingesting protein.
The addition of a carbohydrate source post-workout does not benefit muscular development.
Alan has repeatedly stated that meal timing is not a real benefit but I do feel a little better getting my glycogen stores back up right after a workout to counter the low blood sugar shakes from a hard workout. I used to take a protein shake religiously after a workout but haven't been doing it much lately and my gains are just as good or better as when I did the shakes.0
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