The Real Problem With Bread
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TheVirgoddess wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »The real problem with bread is that it is delicious and I want to eat all of it.
Bread has been the main staple of the human diet (aside from much of Asia) for thousands of years. I have a hard time believing that it is as bad as some people say it is. I also have a hard time believing everyone who says they have a "gluten intolerance" considering that less than 1% of the population actually has an autoimmune reaction to gluten.
That has nothing to do with the article at all.
It says the amount of gluten we consume has tripled in the past 30 years, because companies are adding so much gluten to bread in order to improve its elasticity. Which may be the reason people are more sensitive to it now.
I'm not sure gluten intolerance is a thing, either - but I've never experienced it, so I'm not going to dismiss it.
If people aren't sensitive to gluten then why would the amount of gluten they consume be relevant? Either consuming gluten is an issue or it is not. Aside from sensitivity to it there are no other ill effects from consuming it since it is just a long chain of amino acids which will be broken down like any other protein.
Really? So people can't have a physical reaction to something like too much salt? Or too much caffeine?
Salt and caffeine have drug-like effects (caffeine is actually a drug while salt is an electrolyte and is ionized and is used to activate the sodium potassium pump which is necessary for cell depolarization). So, comparing either of those to something which is a macronutrient is uninformed and asinine. Gluten does not have drug-like effects. It is an incomplete protein and is metabolized by most people in the same way that any other incomplete protein from any food source would be metabolized.
Aww, calm down on belittling someone's question please.
Also, let's compare to sugar instead. Think dosage. A little sugar could spike blood sugar and insulin a small amount. A lot will spike it a lot more. Given the health status of the individual (diabetic or not) this could cause problems for one and not for another.
The folded shape of a protein is what reacts with receptors and causes it to be bioactive. Let's say the receptors, when bound with a protein, increase inflammation. The more receptors that are bound, the higher the inflammation. A little inflammation can be normal in the body, excessive amounts are not so much. Throw in there individual health make up (like diabetics and sugar) and you could certainly have a problem that is aggravated by dosage. The effect of dosage level isn't even the same from person to person; some may be more sensitive than others. I think that is all this is saying, whether accurate or otherwise.
Proteins can be bioactive, whether they are acting on the lining of the gut predigestion or in the blood stream due to "leaky gut" situations. Dosage matters with receptors (unless they are self-limiting, which is another matter
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TheVirgoddess wrote: »The real problem with bread is that it is delicious and I want to eat all of it.
Bread has been the main staple of the human diet (aside from much of Asia) for thousands of years. I have a hard time believing that it is as bad as some people say it is. I also have a hard time believing everyone who says they have a "gluten intolerance" considering that less than 1% of the population actually has an autoimmune reaction to gluten.
That has nothing to do with the article at all.
It says the amount of gluten we consume has tripled in the past 30 years, because companies are adding so much gluten to bread in order to improve its elasticity. Which may be the reason people are more sensitive to it now.
I'm not sure gluten intolerance is a thing, either - but I've never experienced it, so I'm not going to dismiss it.
Gluten intolerance is a thing. I promise.
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ForecasterJason -- Where do you get the gluten that you add? My daughter bought brown rice flour and buckwheat flour for me, but I can't use them in my breadmaker because I need to add gluten (otherwise, it looks like a solid-pack lump of mud when done). I have seen that I need to add gluten, but I can't find a place to buy it.0
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lauries8888 wrote: »ForecasterJason -- Where do you get the gluten that you add? My daughter bought brown rice flour and buckwheat flour for me, but I can't use them in my breadmaker because I need to add gluten (otherwise, it looks like a solid-pack lump of mud when done). I have seen that I need to add gluten, but I can't find a place to buy it.
You can find Vital Wheat Gluten in the baking aisle in most supermarkets.
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@lauries8888 do you have a Bulk Barn near you? It has a lot of product friendly to Celiacs. I bought Xanthan gum there and adding a teaspoon to a tablespoon to my breadmaker recipe makes all the difference (springy loaf instead of mud). Or you could just add white bread flour.0
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lauries8888 wrote: »ForecasterJason -- Where do you get the gluten that you add? My daughter bought brown rice flour and buckwheat flour for me, but I can't use them in my breadmaker because I need to add gluten (otherwise, it looks like a solid-pack lump of mud when done). I have seen that I need to add gluten, but I can't find a place to buy it.
You could also just mix in regular flour or bread flour if you are using gluten anyway, unless there is some other reason not to eat wheat.0 -
TheVirgoddess wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »The real problem with bread is that it is delicious and I want to eat all of it.
Bread has been the main staple of the human diet (aside from much of Asia) for thousands of years. I have a hard time believing that it is as bad as some people say it is. I also have a hard time believing everyone who says they have a "gluten intolerance" considering that less than 1% of the population actually has an autoimmune reaction to gluten.
That has nothing to do with the article at all.
It says the amount of gluten we consume has tripled in the past 30 years, because companies are adding so much gluten to bread in order to improve its elasticity. Which may be the reason people are more sensitive to it now.
I'm not sure gluten intolerance is a thing, either - but I've never experienced it, so I'm not going to dismiss it.
If people aren't sensitive to gluten then why would the amount of gluten they consume be relevant? Either consuming gluten is an issue or it is not. Aside from sensitivity to it there are no other ill effects from consuming it since it is just a long chain of amino acids which will be broken down like any other protein.
Really? So people can't have a physical reaction to something like too much salt? Or too much caffeine?
Salt and caffeine have drug-like effects (caffeine is actually a drug while salt is an electrolyte and is ionized and is used to activate the sodium potassium pump which is necessary for cell depolarization). So, comparing either of those to something which is a macronutrient is uninformed and asinine. Gluten does not have drug-like effects. It is an incomplete protein and is metabolized by most people in the same way that any other incomplete protein from any food source would be metabolized.
Gluten is a macro-nutrient?
My take away from the article is that there is no gluten "sensitivity", it's over consumption of something in a relatively short period of time that our bodies haven't had a chance to adapt to yet. If that's not correct - fine - I'd like to know why it's not correct. That's all.
I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't have issues with gluten and I love bread. I'm skeptical about intolerance and sensitivity in general, but when I read this, I thought there was maybe something to it and I wanted to learn more about.
You don't need to call me names to prove your point. I'm asking questions because I don't know the answers, obviously. If trying to make people feel stupid is the way in which you "teach" or "help" - then I don't need either from you.
I did not call you names. I described your sarcastic and passively-aggressive comment as uninformed and asinine; which it was, unless you actually did not know whether or not people could have adverse reactions from consuming too much caffeine or salt. If this is the case I am very sorry to have offended you.0 -
The real problem with bread?....Uhm..... that my bread bin is always empty!!! LOL. Love me some freshly baked bread with butter on it. Or toast with avocado. A peanut butter or nutella sarmie always fills the gap. Egg on toast??? Yum yum yum. Well, it could very well be the best thing since sliced bread
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Gluten isn't the problem, it's the round-up and other crap that they have infused into the wheat. Look at the spike in gluten intolerance and when Monsanto started chemically engineering plants, the dates aren't too far apart. But hey the government says it's safe so what do I know.0
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I live in rural PA -- no Bulk Barn and no Vital Wheat Gluten in my grocery store. But maybe I can find it online, searching for the full name. Thanks for the help.0
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Also, I tried mixing with 2/3 white flour -- the bread was very dense and not very good.0
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mmmmmmm fresh-baked homemade bread.....That was pretty much all I could think about when skimming your post.0
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Fresh, hot home-made bread slathered with tons of butter Yum! The problem with that is ... it's too delicious. I could eat a whole loaf along with a whole stick of butter!
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ForecasterJason wrote: »In my family we do make our own bread. Although we do add gluten, we also ferment the dough, which does lower the gluten content of the bread.
Can you clarify this please because it makes no sense to me whatsoever. How are you "adding" gluten? Gluten is protein in the wheat flour. The strands of which lengthen and become stronger during kneading, which creates elasticity in the dough.
Also - all yeast leavened bread is "fermented" it is the action of the yeast feeding on the sugars and excreting CO2 and alcohol which causes the bread to rise - the elasticity of the dough traps the CO2.
I love bread - but eat it sparingly (i.e. less than I used to) as it is comparitively high in calories.
You're correct. Proteins fall out of the solution during alcoholic fermentation so fermenting the dough wouldn't have any effect on this. UNLESS, you kept the bread at a specific temperature which catalyzed the action of enzymes within the bread that did break down the gluten. In which case, the enzymatic action would be the mechanism responsible for lowering the amount of gluten, not the fermentation.
In brewing, this is called a protein rest (113-131 degrees Fahrenheit) and is too warm for most yeast strains to survive so it would have to take place prior to the dough rising.
Agreed - I typically do a single infusion mash for my beer and so forgo any of the rest stages associated with step mashing.
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TheVirgoddess wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »The real problem with bread is that it is delicious and I want to eat all of it.
Bread has been the main staple of the human diet (aside from much of Asia) for thousands of years. I have a hard time believing that it is as bad as some people say it is. I also have a hard time believing everyone who says they have a "gluten intolerance" considering that less than 1% of the population actually has an autoimmune reaction to gluten.
That has nothing to do with the article at all.
It says the amount of gluten we consume has tripled in the past 30 years, because companies are adding so much gluten to bread in order to improve its elasticity. Which may be the reason people are more sensitive to it now.
I'm not sure gluten intolerance is a thing, either - but I've never experienced it, so I'm not going to dismiss it.
If people aren't sensitive to gluten then why would the amount of gluten they consume be relevant? Either consuming gluten is an issue or it is not. Aside from sensitivity to it there are no other ill effects from consuming it since it is just a long chain of amino acids which will be broken down like any other protein.
Really? So people can't have a physical reaction to something like too much salt? Or too much caffeine?
Salt and caffeine have drug-like effects (caffeine is actually a drug while salt is an electrolyte and is ionized and is used to activate the sodium potassium pump which is necessary for cell depolarization). So, comparing either of those to something which is a macronutrient is uninformed and asinine. Gluten does not have drug-like effects. It is an incomplete protein and is metabolized by most people in the same way that any other incomplete protein from any food source would be metabolized.
Gluten is a macro-nutrient?
My take away from the article is that there is no gluten "sensitivity", it's over consumption of something in a relatively short period of time that our bodies haven't had a chance to adapt to yet. If that's not correct - fine - I'd like to know why it's not correct. That's all.
I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't have issues with gluten and I love bread. I'm skeptical about intolerance and sensitivity in general, but when I read this, I thought there was maybe something to it and I wanted to learn more about.
You don't need to call me names to prove your point. I'm asking questions because I don't know the answers, obviously. If trying to make people feel stupid is the way in which you "teach" or "help" - then I don't need either from you.
I did not call you names. I described your sarcastic and passively-aggressive comment as uninformed and asinine; which it was, unless you actually did not know whether or not people could have adverse reactions from consuming too much caffeine or salt. If this is the case I am very sorry to have offended you.
I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or passive aggressive. I was asking if you believed in people having reactions to too much salt/caffeine. It's a fair question, considering I don't know you at all and I have no freaking idea if you believe in things like sugar addiction or cleanses. It's my own litmus test, if you will.0 -
tat2cookie wrote: »Gluten isn't the problem, it's the round-up and other crap that they have infused into the wheat.
So much ignorance, so little time....I used to work for the pesticide chemicals department in our province.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate Roundup/Glysophate does not have a terribly long half-life.
Glysophate won't "infuse" in to the wheat.0 -
The real problem with bread is that it is delicious and I want to eat all of it.
Also seeded breads are like 150kcal a slice! That's 300kcal for two measly bits of bread for a sandwich, I can eat 3 sandwiches in 20 minutes. Tortilla wraps are even worse. Why does it taste so good?0 -
We add wheat gluten separately to the flour mixture.ForecasterJason wrote: »In my family we do make our own bread. Although we do add gluten, we also ferment the dough, which does lower the gluten content of the bread.
Can you clarify this please because it makes no sense to me whatsoever. How are you "adding" gluten? Gluten is protein in the wheat flour. The strands of which lengthen and become stronger during kneading, which creates elasticity in the dough.
Also - all yeast leavened bread is "fermented" it is the action of the yeast feeding on the sugars and excreting CO2 and alcohol which causes the bread to rise - the elasticity of the dough traps the CO2.
I love bread - but eat it sparingly (i.e. less than I used to) as it is comparitively high in calories.Lofteren wrote:You're correct. Proteins fall out of the solution during alcoholic fermentation so fermenting the dough wouldn't have any effect on this. UNLESS, you kept the bread at a specific temperature which catalyzed the action of enzymes within the bread that did break down the gluten. In which case, the enzymatic action would be the mechanism responsible for lowering the amount of gluten, not the fermentation.
In brewing, this is called a protein rest (113-131 degrees Fahrenheit) and is too warm for most yeast strains to survive so it would have to take place prior to the dough rising.
Yes. Though we do add sourdough starter to the flour, and this ferments for about 12 hours (before the yeast along with the rest of the dough ingredients are added). The gluten in the flour is broken down some during this process, which is why some studies have shown that people with celiac disease can tolerate sourdough bread.0 -
Salt and caffeine have drug-like effects (caffeine is actually a drug while salt is an electrolyte and is ionized and is used to activate the sodium potassium pump which is necessary for cell depolarization). So, comparing either of those to something which is a macronutrient is uninformed and asinine. Gluten does not have drug-like effects. It is an incomplete protein and is metabolized by most people in the same way that any other incomplete protein from any food source would be metabolized.
Salt is not a drug. Sugar is not a drug. Gluten is not a drug. When you start calling these things drugs then EVERYTHING becomes a drug, since even if you ingested wax is would cause effects on your body.0 -
aringdingdong wrote: »Salt and caffeine have drug-like effects (caffeine is actually a drug while salt is an electrolyte and is ionized and is used to activate the sodium potassium pump which is necessary for cell depolarization). So, comparing either of those to something which is a macronutrient is uninformed and asinine. Gluten does not have drug-like effects. It is an incomplete protein and is metabolized by most people in the same way that any other incomplete protein from any food source would be metabolized.
Salt is not a drug. Sugar is not a drug. Gluten is not a drug. When you start calling these things drugs then EVERYTHING becomes a drug, since even if you ingested wax is would cause effects on your body.
I don't think anyone called any of those things drugs.0 -
Mmmm...fresh, hot foccacia.0
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tat2cookie wrote: »Gluten isn't the problem, it's the round-up and other crap that they have infused into the wheat.
So much ignorance, so little time....I used to work for the pesticide chemicals department in our province.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate Roundup/Glysophate does not have a terribly long half-life.
Glysophate won't "infuse" in to the wheat.
That is not what the article you cite says. The "half-life" reference is to the breakdown of glysophate by soil microbes. It also says that glysophate is unaffected by water or sunlight and is absorbed by plant foliage (including, presumably, the plants grown from Monsanto GMO seed to be able to survive glysophate sprays. So, yes, the glysophate in the run-off that reaches the soil may be broken down fairly quickly, but there's no indication that the glysophate on the surface of plants and "infused" (absorbed) into them gets broken down.
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is there evidence that glysophate is absorbed and carried to the eating organism?
Is there evidence that over the long term
(5,10,15,20,25,30,25,40 years) that it is negatively impacting human quality of life or health?0 -
I love bread. And I don't do "moderation". Some people can, more power to them. People like me, a loaf of bread is crazy making, even if it is the freezer...toast, with peanut butter, honey...Nutella...no. I just can't open the "bread" door.0
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