Is water weight a myth?
Chrysalid2014
Posts: 1,038 Member
I recently came across this information and would be interested to hear thoughts on it. I am a newcomer here but have already noticed that 'water weight' is often cited as an explanation for any rapid weight loss. This article basically claims that 'water weight' doesn't exist:
"How do we know what we know? Often, our knowledge comes from through repetition and stories... This often happens in food choices, especially when it comes to losing weight. Through repetition, even incorrect information can permeate our thoughts and get in the way of weight loss goals. The problem is, many ideas or stories surround weight loss get repeated so often, they become believable.
Let's examine the science behind some of this folklore:
Myth #1: Initial weight loss on diet plans comes from a loss of water weight.
There is no water storage gland in the human body that empties upon dieting. The proponents of this fallacy usually argue that the breakdown of glycogen in the liver, a common occurrence in the body of a dieter, causes a release of water. The human liver weighs about 3 pounds and glycogen accounts for only about 10% of this. So, water from the liver could only contribute to less than half a pound loss, and that's if all of its weight were water.
The fallacy mongers further suggest that the breakdown products of fat metabolism release water. However, for the technically minded, most of these chemical reactions actually use water initially, rather than release it."
The full article is here: http://www.boxingscene.com/weight-loss/23441.php
"How do we know what we know? Often, our knowledge comes from through repetition and stories... This often happens in food choices, especially when it comes to losing weight. Through repetition, even incorrect information can permeate our thoughts and get in the way of weight loss goals. The problem is, many ideas or stories surround weight loss get repeated so often, they become believable.
Let's examine the science behind some of this folklore:
Myth #1: Initial weight loss on diet plans comes from a loss of water weight.
There is no water storage gland in the human body that empties upon dieting. The proponents of this fallacy usually argue that the breakdown of glycogen in the liver, a common occurrence in the body of a dieter, causes a release of water. The human liver weighs about 3 pounds and glycogen accounts for only about 10% of this. So, water from the liver could only contribute to less than half a pound loss, and that's if all of its weight were water.
The fallacy mongers further suggest that the breakdown products of fat metabolism release water. However, for the technically minded, most of these chemical reactions actually use water initially, rather than release it."
The full article is here: http://www.boxingscene.com/weight-loss/23441.php
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Replies
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Myth #1: Initial weight loss on diet plans comes from a loss of water weight. The proponents of this fallacy usually argue that the breakdown of glycogen in the liver, a common occurrence in the body of a dieter, causes a release of water. The human liver weighs about 3 pounds and glycogen accounts for only about 10% of this. So, water from the liver could only contribute to less than half a pound loss, and that's if all of its weight were water.
Hrm. My reason for thinking this is much simpler. Dieters often goes from eating more processed (more salty) foods to less processed (less salty) foods. Note, this is not essential for losing weight, but often what happens. Anyone who logs their sodium and weight daily knows that radical changes in sodium intake lead to temporary gains or losses of perhaps 1% body weight.
Update - Looks like that is also Livestrong's explanation for this phenomenon.0 -
CA_Underdog wrote: »
Hrm. My reason for thinking this is much simpler. Dieters often goes from eating more processed (more salty) foods to less processed (less salty) foods. Note, this is not essential for losing weight, but often what happens. Anyone who logs their sodium and weight daily knows that radical changes in sodium intake lead to temporary gains or losses of perhaps 1% body weight.
Update - Looks like that is also Livestrong's explanation for this phenomenon.
Even though Livestrong is not exactly a reliable source, yeah, I'd agree it's fluctuation around water retention, usually.
Us women experience something similar at certain times of the month.0 -
Glycogen isn't only stored in the liver, it's also in your muscles and your fat cells with 3 to 4 times the amount of glycogen in water, i.e. 100 grams of glycogen = 400-500 grams of weight total. That guy is incorrect.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/56/1/292S.full.pdf
Here, it's not the newest study but the first I found. All the info I wrote is written in the abstract at the beginning already.0 -
Article (ie - non peer-reviewed blog post) written by a PSYCHIATRIST who includes no cites for his information. Oh, and just so happens to have a diet book for sale.
Yeah...I think I'll go with NO0 -
Well, I just lost 5 Lbs from yesterday...and I'm pretty sure that wasn't fat...ya know, considering the math and all.
Guess I'm a fallacy monger....derp0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Well, I just lost 5 Lbs from yesterday...and I'm pretty sure that wasn't fat...ya know, considering the math and all.
Guess I'm a fallacy monger....derp
Whatever, I happen to know that you're doing that 17,500 cal deficit a day diet.0 -
don't believe everything you read on the inter webs….0
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Since 50-65% of your body is water, a daily variance is bound to happen. But losing or gaining two or three pounds overnight definitely indicates a water retention/release, especially when first starting to eat more healthfully.0
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stevencloser wrote: »Glycogen isn't only stored in the liver, it's also in your muscles and your fat cells with 3 to 4 times the amount of glycogen in water, i.e. 100 grams of glycogen = 400-500 grams of weight total. That guy is incorrect.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/56/1/292S.full.pdf
Here, it's not the newest study but the first I found. All the info I wrote is written in the abstract at the beginning already.
Great article; thanks!
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As much as I don't even want to justify this with a response....
The average adult body is made up of 50 - 65%... And yes, it weighs *something*... High amounts of sodium are counter-acted by retaining more water... By drinking the recommended 8+ glasses of water, you help regulate your fluid retention. When you're not getting enough water, your body retains as much as possible. When you intake the proper amount, it helps the kidneys flush out excess fluid (i.e-- water)
So yes, while you're likely not going to lose 10 pounds in simply water weight, it is very much a real thing... Thus why women bloat around their menstrual cycle-- water retention. Ask any female and I guarantee you she gains ~5 pounds in water weight right around her cycle...
Oh also, *reputable* source for you to get information on fluid retention (note: .gov, not .tryingtosellyoushit
Best of luck!
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/fluid_retention0 -
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Glycogen isn't only stored in the liver, it's also in your muscles and your fat cells with 3 to 4 times the amount of glycogen in water, i.e. 100 grams of glycogen = 400-500 grams of weight total. That guy is incorrect.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/56/1/292S.full.pdf
Here, it's not the newest study but the first I found. All the info I wrote is written in the abstract at the beginning already.
Great article; thanks!
Oh I almost forgot, what's next is just my assumption, it might be wrong, but:
The glycogen is one of your body's go-to sources of energy, so when it gets used up from a deficit the water that was stored together with it gets eliminated too, through urine etc. Glycogen is made by your body from glucose so the calorie amount should be about the same, about 4 per gram. So for every 4 calories deficit you lose the gram of glycogen + the 3-4 grams of water, as opposed to fat where ~3500 calories equals 1 pound which comes to just over half a gram of weight per 4 calories. So that would be why the initial weight loss is faster, the glycogen-water stuff just has less energy than your fat so you lose more weight for the same deficit as your body uses it up.
[/end uneducated guess]0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Oh I almost forgot, what's next is just my assumption, it might be wrong, but:...
If I understand it correctly, the study confirms that here (starting from "the energy deficit":
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christinev297 wrote: »I experienced the whoosh first hand many times.
Aw, poor little fat cell!! I almost feel sorry for it...0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »I experienced the whoosh first hand many times.
Aw, poor little fat cell!! I almost feel sorry for it...
Wanna adopt it?0 -
Yeah, as someone else mentioned, glycogen isn't just stored in the liver.
I've done a bodybuilding competition where dehydrating is a common practice. I was able to drop 10lbs in a short time by playing wth carbs and water.
That is after months of dieting. There is no way that was anything but water weight.0 -
This would be one of those things that keeps getting repeated but isn't true. (Perhaps because someone took the time to draw a picture.) But fat cells don't store water, so we can't attribute rapid weight loss to the fat cell suddenly deciding to release water.christinev297 wrote: »I experienced the whoosh first hand many times.
But water weight is not a myth. We carry a lot of water around with us and it fluctuates. One of the causes of high blood pressure is having too much water in the red blood cells. Weigh before and after exercise and you can see a significant difference in weight, primarily due to loss of water.
However, not all of the first five pounds is "water". When we first reduce what we eat, we don't stuff ourselves as full as we had been, so we carry less food around in our gut. Some of that is water, but a lot of it is just undigested food.
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christinev297 wrote: »I experienced the whoosh first hand many times.
I had always wondered why this happens, thank you x
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3dogsrunning wrote: »Yeah, as someone else mentioned, glycogen isn't just stored in the liver.
I've done a bodybuilding competition where dehydrating is a common practice. I was able to drop 10lbs in a short time by playing wth carbs and water.
That is after months of dieting. There is no way that was anything but water weight.
I too can drop between 7 and 10 lbs by cutting out carbs. Was already following a low carb plan and this week dropped to Ultra low carbs and have dropped 4lb in 4 days. This has to be water weight, as I have still been eating 1200 cals a day
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CathReese33 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »I experienced the whoosh first hand many times.
I had always wondered why this happens, thank you x
See? There you go. I just wrote a post saying that this isn't true, but the next post down, someone posts it again, as if it is.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »CathReese33 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »I experienced the whoosh first hand many times.
I had always wondered why this happens, thank you x
See? There you go. I just wrote a post saying that this isn't true, but the next post down, someone posts it again, as if it is.
haha
although, how do you know fat cells cant store water? (not being a pain, legitimately want to know)
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4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »CathReese33 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »I experienced the whoosh first hand many times.
I had always wondered why this happens, thank you x
See? There you go. I just wrote a post saying that this isn't true, but the next post down, someone posts it again, as if it is.
haha
although, how do you know fat cells cant store water? (not being a pain, legitimately want to know)
Because fat is an oil and since oil and water separate when placed together, the fat in the cell will naturally repel water, rather than drawing it in.0 -
just because they are not mixing does not mean the water would get repelled out
since fat gets broken down into water and CO2 it makes sense the water may remain in the fat cell for some time until it is drawn out0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »Because fat is an oil and since oil and water separate when placed together, the fat in the cell will naturally repel water, rather than drawing it in.
Water is PRESENT in the fat cell.
For the fat cell to live, like any other in your body, water is a critical component in the cellular respiration (e.g. Hydrolysis of ATP, Citric Acid Cycle, etc). Water is also an essential element for transport of molecules in and out of the cellular wall. Whether it fills with water and subsequently releases it when the fat stores are depleted has not been verified (seen directly as in vivisection) but from anecdotal evidence we know fat cells do not collapse (or shrink) immediately as fats are released so something must be filling the void.
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Sorry OP, but you need better sources to refer to when looking to confirm a myth. Peer reviewed clinical studies in Journals of Medicine, Science and Physiology are much better sources.
And those sources will tell you that water and glycogen just doesn't store in the liver.
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4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »just because they are not mixing does not mean the water would get repelled out
since fat gets broken down into water and CO2 it makes sense the water may remain in the fat cell for some time until it is drawn out
It takes several chemical reactions before fat becomes H2O and CO2. The reaction that produces H2O and CO2 does not occur in the fat cell.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »It takes several chemical reactions before fat becomes H2O and CO2. The reaction that produces H2O and CO2 does not occur in the fat cell.
There are two types of adipose (fat) cells: white which contain large fat droplets and brown cells containing fat droplets of differing size and numerous mitochondria. Primary function of the white fat cell is to storage and release (hydrolysis of triglycerides in order to generate fatty acids and glycerol for physiological processes, and note water is needed for the chemical reaction). Fatty acids generated by the brown brown fat cells generally are not and are instead used by the cells’ mitochondria to generate heat.
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Timothy I beg to differ. There are many informative articles explaining the whoosh in detail.0
This discussion has been closed.
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