Does strength training = gaining weight (in muscle)?
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If you want to put on muscle it takes protein at the right time which is all the time- 10 grams every hour or 30 grams every three hours and try to stay in a positive calorie intake of at least 250 calories. I highly recommend 50 grams of casein (slow digesting protein before bed time. The rest is easy just lift weights until your happy with your progress then cut your calories to a deficit of 250 calories while keeping your protein in the 60% range of your total caloric intake and carbs under 15%. I do this every year and it works great..
Building muscle is 80% intake and 20% exercise!!
Muscle is dense so it does take up less space than fat but a pound of anything weighs the same as a pound of anything else.. I feel dumber for having to type this..lol.. Good luck
So much WTF in this post.
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Many elite distance runners now train with weights. Of course, they don't want to build muscle because adding weight might slow them down. They don't gain weight (ie, muscle). They run too much for that. They don't have the excess calories.0
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ACharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
muscle doesnt weigh more than fat,it weighs the same but the muscle takes up less space.gaining strength also does not always mean gaining muscle. I lift while in a deficit and I have gotten stronger but havent built much if any muscle.I have been lifting for almost 3 years, I have gained some muscle but a lot of that was from when I wasnt eating in a deficit.XC_Guitar17 wrote: »I'm okay with gaining weight and toning up as long as I'm gaining mostly muscle. And I understand that muscle weighs more than fat, so by gaining muscle, I would gain some weight. That's cool. I just need "strength gains," as you (ndj1979) put it, and from what I understand, gaining strength means gaining muscle.
I hope that makes sense. And I may be totally wrong or I may be understanding your answer to my question wrong - like I said, I'm new to this strength training thing.
Thanks for the response by the way.
It would be pleasing, to me at least, if we could keep this tired old argument over semantics out of the gaining section. You do understand that both statements are equally right and wrong, don't you?
It shows up on the main boards pretty frequently so there's plenty of opportunities to flog it death there, if you enjoy doing so.
OP simply wanted to know if he would gain weight (while eating at maintenance), he won't.
Agreed. It is commonly accepted that when people say muscle weighs more than fat, they mean the same volume of muscle weighs more than the same volume of fat. Adding in the extra words does add clarity but does not change the way most people understand it. Just as it is commonly understood that when you write "don't" you are writing a shorter form of "do not". It's informal. It is equally correct to say that muscle is denser than fat, i.e. 1 lb of muscle takes up less space than 1 lb of fat. Who cares which you say, unless you are writing a scientific paper?0 -
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/natural-muscular-potential-women/
ETA: this is a link with an article summarising scientific research on body building in women. It has links to full articles too. Haven't read the whole thing but it says that in short, women can build muscles just as much as men. They synthesise proteins the same as men after exercise. The difference is that women have a different starting point so have a longer way to go.0 -
Because you can just as easily say that, given the same volume of material, the muscle weighs more. (A 1" cube of muscle weighs more than a 1" cube of fat). It's a non-argument that gets people all spun out around here. That's why nobody wants it introduced in the Gaining Weight forum.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
where did I say that it wasnt more dense than fat? pretty sure I said it weighs the same but just takes up less space. how am I wrong in saying whats been proven?CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
how about instead of rudely telling me where I should go to comment on things, because you dont like it,you skip over what I say/said? its a public forum and I have just as much right to post things as others do.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
muscle doesnt weigh more than fat,it weighs the same but the muscle takes up less space.gaining strength also does not always mean gaining muscle. I lift while in a deficit and I have gotten stronger but havent built much if any muscle.I have been lifting for almost 3 years, I have gained some muscle but a lot of that was from when I wasnt eating in a deficit.XC_Guitar17 wrote: »I'm okay with gaining weight and toning up as long as I'm gaining mostly muscle. And I understand that muscle weighs more than fat, so by gaining muscle, I would gain some weight. That's cool. I just need "strength gains," as you (ndj1979) put it, and from what I understand, gaining strength means gaining muscle.
I hope that makes sense. And I may be totally wrong or I may be understanding your answer to my question wrong - like I said, I'm new to this strength training thing.
Thanks for the response by the way.
It would be pleasing, to me at least, if we could keep this tired old argument over semantics out of the gaining section. You do understand that both statements are equally right and wrong, don't you?
It shows up on the main boards pretty frequently so there's plenty of opportunities to flog it death there, if you enjoy doing so.
OP simply wanted to know if he would gain weight (while eating at maintenance), he won't.
Then please stop being wrong. Muscle is denser than fat.
Not a big deal. "Muscle ways more than fat" is just a piece of misinformation they taught me in high school health class, apparently. I didn't mean to start a big debate.0 -
No problem, the pic of my guitar before was kinda ambiguous.0 -
DancingMoosie wrote: »If you just want to build strength only (no mass, no weight), eat at maintenance and lift. If you want to build muscle mass and strength, eat at a surplus and lift.
I want to build a little mass (to "look toned," I guess), but mostly strength. I understand the strength is more important whereas the wanting to look toned part (mass) is more from vanity.
So a little surplus and lift. Got it. Thank you so much! You made it sound so simple haha.
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If you want to put on muscle it takes protein at the right time which is all the time- 10 grams every hour or 30 grams every three hours and try to stay in a positive calorie intake of at least 250 calories. I highly recommend 50 grams of casein (slow digesting protein before bed time. The rest is easy just lift weights until your happy with your progress then cut your calories to a deficit of 250 calories while keeping your protein in the 60% range of your total caloric intake and carbs under 15%. I do this every year and it works great..
Building muscle is 80% intake and 20% exercise!!
Muscle is dense so it does take up less space than fat but a pound of anything weighs the same as a pound of anything else.. I feel dumber for having to type this..lol.. Good luck
Thanks for the advice, but unfortunately what I can do is limited by the lifting vs. running schedule given by my cross country/track coach and my equally limited funds and time as a college student. Also, I don't think I'm looking to gain as much strength as your training program would entail.
I still appreciate that you took the time to respond, though.0 -
You can gain strength at a deficit, which is not the same as gaining muscle.
- You may be able to gain muscle at a deficit, depending on individual factors (leanness, gender, training routine, how long you have been training, size of deficit genetics etc).
- You can gain muscle at maintenance - its called recomp.
- You can gain muscle at a surplus.
The ease and speed of gaining muscle (and I use the term 'ease' loosely as its not easy) is hardest and slowest under the first and easiest and fastest (but still slow) under the last set of circumstances.
To gain muscle under any of the circumstances, you need to provide stimulus to the muscles - which means you need to have a routine that provides progressive loading in the appropriate volume and rep ranges, get enough protein and be patient. Its hard to gain muscle, and even harder for a female to gain any appreciable muscle as we lack the levels of testosterone that men do.0 -
If you want to put on muscle it takes protein at the right time which is all the time- 10 grams every hour or 30 grams every three hours and try to stay in a positive calorie intake of at least 250 calories. I highly recommend 50 grams of casein (slow digesting protein before bed time. The rest is easy just lift weights until your happy with your progress then cut your calories to a deficit of 250 calories while keeping your protein in the 60% range of your total caloric intake and carbs under 15%. I do this every year and it works great..
Building muscle is 80% intake and 20% exercise!!
Muscle is dense so it does take up less space than fat but a pound of anything weighs the same as a pound of anything else.. I feel dumber for having to type this..lol.. Good luck
You do not need to time your protein like that...at all.
You do not need to get 60% protein nor restrict your carbs to 15% on a cut.0 -
You can gain strength at a deficit, which is not the same as gaining muscle.
- You may be able to gain muscle at a deficit, depending on individual factors (leanness, gender, training routine, how long you have been training, size of deficit genetics etc).
- You can gain muscle at maintenance - its called recomp.
- You can gain muscle at a surplus.
The ease and speed of gaining muscle (and I use the term 'ease' loosely as its not easy) is hardest and slowest under the first and easiest and fastest (but still slow) under the last set of circumstances.
To gain muscle under any of the circumstances, you need to provide stimulus to the muscles - which means you need to have a routine that provides progressive loading in the appropriate volume and rep ranges, get enough protein and be patient. Its hard to gain muscle, and even harder for a female to gain any appreciable muscle as we lack the levels of testosterone that men do.
Awesome. You broke the process down in a way that made it very easy for me to understand. I asked my guy friends on the team how to build muscle and they basically said, "Uh, make sure you eat enough protein and lift" haha. So your response helped me understand what I need to do considerably better.
I'm gonna go with option #3. According to MFP over the past 5 days, I usually am right at maintenance intake or about 100-250 calories over (all of which is 90% healthy stuff . . . limited by the dining hall on my college campus of course).
Also, providing stimulus will not be a problem, seeing as I run 6 days a week for track in addition to 50 minute strength training workouts (arms/abs/legs) as part of a weight training class 2 times a week. And this past week I got a little excited and threw an extra ab workout (15 minutes after a 45 minute easy run) mid-week.
Thanks again for your wonderful response. Like I said, it was very helpful.
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If you want to put on muscle it takes protein at the right time which is all the time- 10 grams every hour or 30 grams every three hours and try to stay in a positive calorie intake of at least 250 calories. I highly recommend 50 grams of casein (slow digesting protein before bed time. The rest is easy just lift weights until your happy with your progress then cut your calories to a deficit of 250 calories while keeping your protein in the 60% range of your total caloric intake and carbs under 15%. I do this every year and it works great..
Building muscle is 80% intake and 20% exercise!!
Muscle is dense so it does take up less space than fat but a pound of anything weighs the same as a pound of anything else.. I feel dumber for having to type this..lol.. Good luck
You do not need to time your protein like that...at all.
You do not need to get 60% protein nor restrict your carbs to 15% on a cut.
Yeah. Don't worry, I don't have the money/time to take those suggestions anyway.
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XC_Guitar17 wrote: »You can gain strength at a deficit, which is not the same as gaining muscle.
- You may be able to gain muscle at a deficit, depending on individual factors (leanness, gender, training routine, how long you have been training, size of deficit genetics etc).
- You can gain muscle at maintenance - its called recomp.
- You can gain muscle at a surplus.
The ease and speed of gaining muscle (and I use the term 'ease' loosely as its not easy) is hardest and slowest under the first and easiest and fastest (but still slow) under the last set of circumstances.
To gain muscle under any of the circumstances, you need to provide stimulus to the muscles - which means you need to have a routine that provides progressive loading in the appropriate volume and rep ranges, get enough protein and be patient. Its hard to gain muscle, and even harder for a female to gain any appreciable muscle as we lack the levels of testosterone that men do.
Awesome. You broke the process down in a way that made it very easy for me to understand. I asked my guy friends on the team how to build muscle and they basically said, "Uh, make sure you eat enough protein and lift" haha. So your response helped me understand what I need to do considerably better.
I'm gonna go with option #3. According to MFP over the past 5 days, I usually am right at maintenance intake or about 100-250 calories over (all of which is 90% healthy stuff . . . limited by the dining hall on my college campus of course).
Also, providing stimulus will not be a problem, seeing as I run 6 days a week for track in addition to 50 minute strength training workouts (arms/abs/legs) as part of a weight training class 2 times a week. And this past week I got a little excited and threw an extra ab workout (15 minutes after a 45 minute easy run) mid-week.
Thanks again for your wonderful response. Like I said, it was very helpful.
You are very welcome.
What rep ranges do you use with your lifting routine? Are you adding weight/reps as you progress? How much volume (sets and reps) are you doing for each major muscle group?
Generally (and there is some variance here depending on the muscle group and number of sets), the rep ranges for hypertrophy (muscle growth) are in the 8 - 15 rep range. When you start going much over that, its really endurance capacity you are gaining and not muscle. Too much under and its really strength that you are gaining (although there will likely also be some hypertrophy).
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XC_Guitar17 wrote: »You can gain strength at a deficit, which is not the same as gaining muscle.
- You may be able to gain muscle at a deficit, depending on individual factors (leanness, gender, training routine, how long you have been training, size of deficit genetics etc).
- You can gain muscle at maintenance - its called recomp.
- You can gain muscle at a surplus.
The ease and speed of gaining muscle (and I use the term 'ease' loosely as its not easy) is hardest and slowest under the first and easiest and fastest (but still slow) under the last set of circumstances.
To gain muscle under any of the circumstances, you need to provide stimulus to the muscles - which means you need to have a routine that provides progressive loading in the appropriate volume and rep ranges, get enough protein and be patient. Its hard to gain muscle, and even harder for a female to gain any appreciable muscle as we lack the levels of testosterone that men do.
Awesome. You broke the process down in a way that made it very easy for me to understand. I asked my guy friends on the team how to build muscle and they basically said, "Uh, make sure you eat enough protein and lift" haha. So your response helped me understand what I need to do considerably better.
I'm gonna go with option #3. According to MFP over the past 5 days, I usually am right at maintenance intake or about 100-250 calories over (all of which is 90% healthy stuff . . . limited by the dining hall on my college campus of course).
Also, providing stimulus will not be a problem, seeing as I run 6 days a week for track in addition to 50 minute strength training workouts (arms/abs/legs) as part of a weight training class 2 times a week. And this past week I got a little excited and threw an extra ab workout (15 minutes after a 45 minute easy run) mid-week.
Thanks again for your wonderful response. Like I said, it was very helpful.
You are very welcome.
What rep ranges do you use with your lifting routine? Are you adding weight/reps as you progress? How much volume (sets and reps) are you doing for each major muscle group?
Generally (and there is some variance here depending on the muscle group and number of sets), the rep ranges for hypertrophy (muscle growth) are in the 8 - 15 rep range. When you start going much over that, its really endurance capacity you are gaining and not muscle. Too much under and its really strength that you are gaining (although there will likely also be some hypertrophy).
Right now I'm a total beginner so:
1. Rep ranges:
- 10-15 with weights, 30-50 without weights (like most ab exercises/push ups/pull ups) and/or 1 minute to 2:00 for plank, side plank, and similar ab/arm exercises
2. Yes, I am adding weight as I progress. When we first started weight training for cross country, I could only use 5-10 pound weights because my arms were not used to holding up weight at all. Now, for most exercises, especially single arm exercises, I can use 15-20 pound weights. I still need to use 10 pound weights if I am raising weights above my head, though (to work my shoulders, etc. - we did some specific exercise involving this in weight training class on Thursday but I can't remember the name of the exercise - I think it was just called a shoulder raise?).
3. In class, we typically do 3-4 sets of 10 reps so far for anything involving weights or the specific machines in the gym that work certain muscle groups with weights. But I've only been in the class for a week (2 class sessions), so I know this number will increase as I get stronger. For ab exercises in class, we also follow the 3-4 sets of 10 reps guideline. But if I do an ab workout on my own, and I'm just focusing on abs and not anything else, I usually do 3 sets of 30-50 and/or 1:00-2:00.
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^^does not sound unreasonable for where you currently are based on what you note. As you progress you may want to look into adding a little more in the way of 'bigger compounds' at lower reps - possibly as a third lifting day - but that really depends on your available time - your running schedule may preclude that. If its a class, it should include it, but you should also make sure you train back and posterior chain (lower back, butt and hamstrings) to keep things balanced.
As you are new to it, you should see strength gains pretty quickly as you get adapted to lifting.
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That sounds good. Thanks. We're almost done with school actually (semester ends at the end of April), so I'll have plenty of time this summer to hit the gym 2-3 times a week, which I think will supplement my summer training for cross country nicely.
I will definitely look into exercises for training my back. As a team, we were doing some stuff for our hamstrings and glutes (hypers, squats with 20 pound kettleballs, etc.) during our cross country weight training sessions before I started my class, so I can easily start re-incorporating some of those exercises back into my routine over the summer since I now know how to do them.
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If you want to put on muscle it takes protein at the right time which is all the time- 10 grams every hour or 30 grams every three hours and try to stay in a positive calorie intake of at least 250 calories. I highly recommend 50 grams of casein (slow digesting protein before bed time. The rest is easy just lift weights until your happy with your progress then cut your calories to a deficit of 250 calories while keeping your protein in the 60% range of your total caloric intake and carbs under 15%. I do this every year and it works great..
Building muscle is 80% intake and 20% exercise!!
Muscle is dense so it does take up less space than fat but a pound of anything weighs the same as a pound of anything else.. I feel dumber for having to type this..lol.. Good luck
So much WTF in this post.
^^^^^ I agree!! OP please don't listen to this! Any of it!! Just no!0 -
If you want to put on muscle it takes protein at the right time which is all the time- 10 grams every hour or 30 grams every three hours and try to stay in a positive calorie intake of at least 250 calories. I highly recommend 50 grams of casein (slow digesting protein before bed time. The rest is easy just lift weights until your happy with your progress then cut your calories to a deficit of 250 calories while keeping your protein in the 60% range of your total caloric intake and carbs under 15%. I do this every year and it works great..
Building muscle is 80% intake and 20% exercise!!
Muscle is dense so it does take up less space than fat but a pound of anything weighs the same as a pound of anything else.. I feel dumber for having to type this..lol.. Good luck
So much WTF in this post.
^^^^^ I agree!! OP please don't listen to this! Any of it!! Just no!
Thanks! And don't worry, even with my limited knowledge, I could kinda tell just reading that post that the advice was a little overblown. I credit it to being in college, on top of being an English major - because I constantly have professors drilling "question everything" into my head haha.0 -
If you want to put on muscle it takes protein at the right time which is all the time- 10 grams every hour or 30 grams every three hours and try to stay in a positive calorie intake of at least 250 calories. I highly recommend 50 grams of casein (slow digesting protein before bed time. The rest is easy just lift weights until your happy with your progress then cut your calories to a deficit of 250 calories while keeping your protein in the 60% range of your total caloric intake and carbs under 15%. I do this every year and it works great..
Building muscle is 80% intake and 20% exercise!!
Muscle is dense so it does take up less space than fat but a pound of anything weighs the same as a pound of anything else.. I feel dumber for having to type this..lol.. Good luck
So much WTF in this post.
put me down for WTF for 500 ….0 -
Muscles are incendiary fat burning furnaces. I tend to lose quite a bit of fat, and weight, simultaneously as I gain more lean mass.0
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FatAsianNerd wrote: »Muscles are incendiary fat burning furnaces. I tend to lose quite a bit of fat, and weight, simultaneously as I gain more lean mass.
and wtf for 1000….0 -
FatAsianNerd wrote: »Muscles are incendiary fat burning furnaces.
Wow!
A whole 6cals per lb per day at rest - what a spectacular furnace that is.
[/sarcasm]
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She mentioned she runs cross country 6xs a week, don't you guys think that would be detrimental to her muscle gains? Considering while running long distance her body using protein as energy when turning catabolic? Just a thought, what you guys think?0
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mike4502003 wrote: »She mentioned she runs cross country 6xs a week, don't you guys think that would be detrimental to her muscle gains? Considering while running long distance her body using protein as energy when turning catabolic? Just a thought, what you guys think?
She wants to gain muscle to assist with her goals of cross country, at least that's the way I read it - so dropping running (or limiting it) would not be conducive to her goals. Long distance running is not ideal for muscle gains - but she will be at a slight surplus. It's generally high amounts of cardio and a large deficit that is the biggest issue.0 -
People are still going to use the word "toning", it should be ok because you know what they mean, right? I will never stop using the word toning, although I say strength training as well. Hope nobody tries to re-teach me!0
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- That's how I understood it, achieving the best of both worlds at the same time is going to be very hard. .mike4502003 wrote: »She mentioned she runs cross country 6xs a week, don't you guys think that would be detrimental to her muscle gains? Considering while running long distance her body using protein as energy when turning catabolic? Just a thought, what you guys think?
She wants to gain muscle to assist with her goals of cross country, at least that's the way I read it - so dropping running (or limiting it) would not be conducive to her goals. Long distance running is not ideal for muscle gains - but she will be at a slight surplus. It's generally high amounts of cardio and a large deficit that is the biggest issue.
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Timing is irrelevant. If one is in positive nitrogen balance, then they are anabolic (building). If one went 10 grams an hour and was awake 16 hours, that's only 160 grams of protein. For someone over 160lbs, nitrogen balance might be off at that rate.If you want to put on muscle it takes protein at the right time which is all the time- 10 grams every hour or 30 grams every three hours and try to stay in a positive calorie intake of at least 250 calories. I highly recommend 50 grams of casein (slow digesting protein before bed time. The rest is easy just lift weights until your happy with your progress then cut your calories to a deficit of 250 calories while keeping your protein in the 60% range of your total caloric intake and carbs under 15%. I do this every year and it works great..
Building muscle is 80% intake and 20% exercise!!
Muscle is dense so it does take up less space than fat but a pound of anything weighs the same as a pound of anything else.. I feel dumber for having to type this..lol.. Good luck
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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mike4502003 wrote: »
- That's how I understood it, achieving the best of both worlds at the same time is going to be very hard. .mike4502003 wrote: »She mentioned she runs cross country 6xs a week, don't you guys think that would be detrimental to her muscle gains? Considering while running long distance her body using protein as energy when turning catabolic? Just a thought, what you guys think?
She wants to gain muscle to assist with her goals of cross country, at least that's the way I read it - so dropping running (or limiting it) would not be conducive to her goals. Long distance running is not ideal for muscle gains - but she will be at a slight surplus. It's generally high amounts of cardio and a large deficit that is the biggest issue.
Best of both worlds - yep. Possible to make progress in both however, also a yep (assuming a good routine, decent macro mix etc).0
sorry
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