Maximum heart rate question
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tincanonastring wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »AllanMisner wrote: »The general guideline for maximum heart rate is 220 - your age. For light cardio, you should be at 60 - 70%, for intense cardio, you should be at 75 - 90%
What you were doing with resistance is actually a circuit training (they are misusing the name HIIT). True HIIT has you going full out for 20 - 30 seconds and then having a recovery period of 60 - 120 seconds. In that, you’ll run your heart rate up into the 95 - 110% range for that work period, and during recovery, you’re trying to get your heart rate back down to around 50 - 60%. If you’re doing this right, you’ll only be able to do this 5 - 10 cycles (I usually tap out at 8 rounds).
All of that said, I am not a fan of burning calories for the sake of losing weight. Fat loss comes from what and how much you eat. If you’re eating at a small deficit, you’ll lose weight slowly and steadily (the healthy way). Exercise should be done to improve other aspects of health (strength, endurance, muscle mass gain/retention, cardiovascular, mobility, balance, speed, agility, etc.). And then you eat back those workout calories to fuel the next workout.
Patience and persistence are the keys to success in fat loss and health improvement.
This is fine if you are looking for a baseline. There's a newer formula called the Karvonen formula. I like applying that one over the old version.
Here's a good link to check it out:
http://www.acefitness.org/blog/3502/advances-in-aerobic-training-how-to-apply-the-new
Here's how I calculate mine outside of doing the VO2Max and metabolic test:
HRRMax = 208-(.7*age)
My age is 46 as of today, so the formula is applied here:
HRRMax = 208-(.7*46)
Result:
HRRMax (100%) = 175.8 ~176 rounded for sanity.
To get your training zones, then apply the HRRMax to the rest of the formula:
(HRRMax-HRRRest)*HRRT%+HRRRest
My resting HR is 50.
For example, this is how I would calculate all of my zones using this formula:
HRR60%: (176-50)*.6)+50 = ~125
HRR70%: (176-50)*.7)+50 = ~138
HRR80%: (176-50)*.8)+50 = ~151
HRR90%: (176-50)*.9)+50 = ~163
When I did my VO2Max test - my zones were about 5 beats lower per zone.
Hope this helps!
This is the most recent information I've seen, and it's what I've been using lately, but I didn't know the name of the formula.
I'm 35 (close enough, anyway) with a resting heart rate of about 65 (been a while since I checked).
MAX = 208-(.7*35) = 183.5 rounded to 184.
(Max-Rest)*%+Rest
60% = (184-65)*.6+65= 136
70% = (184-65)*.7+65= 148
80% = (184-65)*.8+65= 160
90% = (184-65)*.9+65= 172
My peaks frequently exceed the 172 mark, and I've been worried that I've been over-exerting myself.
I'll be speaking to my PCP about this next month at my annual physical, but my exercise HR seems to be higher than I expected. When I do my steady-state runs, I'm often around 165 for the duration, which aligns closer to high intensity based on those calculations.
Is anyone aware of any literature on how this might vary from one individual to the next?
All HR Max equations have a SEE of 10-12 beats/min. If you think of a bell curve distribution (and who doesn't), that means it's not that unusual to have an actual HR Max 15-20 beats above the calculated number (or even higher). Obviously, if HR Max is higher, all calculated "zone" numbers will be higher as well.
That's exactly the info I should have been looking for. Now that you point it out, it's quite obvious. Thanks.0 -
AllanMisner wrote: »True HIIT has you going full out for 20 - 30 seconds and then having a recovery period of 60 - 120 seconds. In that, you’ll run your heart rate up into the 95 - 110% range for that work period, and during recovery, you’re trying to get your heart rate back down to around 50 - 60%.
There are various HIIT interval cycles. Regardless of the cycle, the heart rate suggestions sound right.
HIIT and burning calories - Calories burned are best measured during steady-state cardio exercises, working at a steady effort over time. Even so, I use the estimates provided by the exercise equipment during my HIIT workouts. Over a week or month the true calorie deficit will show on the scale.
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Allanmister, in answer to your question, because 120 for me is no different to walking around my living room fairly quickly. It doesn't take any effort, if I use the gym machines and actually put in some effort the minimum my HR will be is about 140.0
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I’d argue that you’re getting good training effect at 120 (particularly in the fat burning area). But I can understand if you have a preference for more intense work.0
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If 120 is good training then I might as well give up actual training and pace around my house! If this is the case then I should be stick thin, because I am up and down my stairs in my house and walking around the house/outside with my dog etc. on and off all day but it isn't making the slightest bit of difference to my weight. If you have a very low resting heart rate then maybe 120 means you're making some sort of effort but my resting heart rate is closer to 80.0
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45, male in decent shape. 5'10 and around 200 lbs.
Resting is <60
My Zones
Average fast walking and light workouts is around 105-125
Medium workouts to faster constant cardio is 135-155
My HIIT peaks around 170.
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If 120 is good training then I might as well give up actual training and pace around my house! If this is the case then I should be stick thin, because I am up and down my stairs in my house and walking around the house/outside with my dog etc. on and off all day but it isn't making the slightest bit of difference to my weight. If you have a very low resting heart rate then maybe 120 means you're making some sort of effort but my resting heart rate is closer to 80.
All I’m saying is that long, slow distance (LSD) can be an effective part of a training program. Add in lifting heavy things and the occasional sprints (HIIT) along with some sort of play (sport) and you have a good balanced program.
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I really don't get the 'scale' either.tincanonastring wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »AllanMisner wrote: »The general guideline for maximum heart rate is 220 - your age. For light cardio, you should be at 60 - 70%, for intense cardio, you should be at 75 - 90%
What you were doing with resistance is actually a circuit training (they are misusing the name HIIT). True HIIT has you going full out for 20 - 30 seconds and then having a recovery period of 60 - 120 seconds. In that, you’ll run your heart rate up into the 95 - 110% range for that work period, and during recovery, you’re trying to get your heart rate back down to around 50 - 60%. If you’re doing this right, you’ll only be able to do this 5 - 10 cycles (I usually tap out at 8 rounds).
All of that said, I am not a fan of burning calories for the sake of losing weight. Fat loss comes from what and how much you eat. If you’re eating at a small deficit, you’ll lose weight slowly and steadily (the healthy way). Exercise should be done to improve other aspects of health (strength, endurance, muscle mass gain/retention, cardiovascular, mobility, balance, speed, agility, etc.). And then you eat back those workout calories to fuel the next workout.
Patience and persistence are the keys to success in fat loss and health improvement.
This is fine if you are looking for a baseline. There's a newer formula called the Karvonen formula. I like applying that one over the old version.
Here's a good link to check it out:
http://www.acefitness.org/blog/3502/advances-in-aerobic-training-how-to-apply-the-new
Here's how I calculate mine outside of doing the VO2Max and metabolic test:
HRRMax = 208-(.7*age)
My age is 46 as of today, so the formula is applied here:
HRRMax = 208-(.7*46)
Result:
HRRMax (100%) = 175.8 ~176 rounded for sanity.
To get your training zones, then apply the HRRMax to the rest of the formula:
(HRRMax-HRRRest)*HRRT%+HRRRest
My resting HR is 50.
For example, this is how I would calculate all of my zones using this formula:
HRR60%: (176-50)*.6)+50 = ~125
HRR70%: (176-50)*.7)+50 = ~138
HRR80%: (176-50)*.8)+50 = ~151
HRR90%: (176-50)*.9)+50 = ~163
When I did my VO2Max test - my zones were about 5 beats lower per zone.
Hope this helps!
This is the most recent information I've seen, and it's what I've been using lately, but I didn't know the name of the formula.
I'm 35 (close enough, anyway) with a resting heart rate of about 65 (been a while since I checked).
MAX = 208-(.7*35) = 183.5 rounded to 184.
(Max-Rest)*%+Rest
60% = (184-65)*.6+65= 136
70% = (184-65)*.7+65= 148
80% = (184-65)*.8+65= 160
90% = (184-65)*.9+65= 172
My peaks frequently exceed the 172 mark, and I've been worried that I've been over-exerting myself.
I'll be speaking to my PCP about this next month at my annual physical, but my exercise HR seems to be higher than I expected. When I do my steady-state runs, I'm often around 165 for the duration, which aligns closer to high intensity based on those calculations.
Is anyone aware of any literature on how this might vary from one individual to the next?
At 45, both of the estimates put me at 174&175. (My RHR is in the low 50s last time I checked.) It goes up to ~185 with a 30 second full-out sprint.
I run extended periods (IOW boring non-intense I can still talk) at about 84-85%, or 155 BPM.
I've done 30 minute tempo runs while at 90% (165) the entire time.
I don't understand the 60-70% thing. At that level it seriously doesn't even feel like I'm doing anything and I wouldn't even break a sweat.0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I really don't get the 'scale' either.tincanonastring wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »AllanMisner wrote: »The general guideline for maximum heart rate is 220 - your age. For light cardio, you should be at 60 - 70%, for intense cardio, you should be at 75 - 90%
What you were doing with resistance is actually a circuit training (they are misusing the name HIIT). True HIIT has you going full out for 20 - 30 seconds and then having a recovery period of 60 - 120 seconds. In that, you’ll run your heart rate up into the 95 - 110% range for that work period, and during recovery, you’re trying to get your heart rate back down to around 50 - 60%. If you’re doing this right, you’ll only be able to do this 5 - 10 cycles (I usually tap out at 8 rounds).
All of that said, I am not a fan of burning calories for the sake of losing weight. Fat loss comes from what and how much you eat. If you’re eating at a small deficit, you’ll lose weight slowly and steadily (the healthy way). Exercise should be done to improve other aspects of health (strength, endurance, muscle mass gain/retention, cardiovascular, mobility, balance, speed, agility, etc.). And then you eat back those workout calories to fuel the next workout.
Patience and persistence are the keys to success in fat loss and health improvement.
This is fine if you are looking for a baseline. There's a newer formula called the Karvonen formula. I like applying that one over the old version.
Here's a good link to check it out:
http://www.acefitness.org/blog/3502/advances-in-aerobic-training-how-to-apply-the-new
Here's how I calculate mine outside of doing the VO2Max and metabolic test:
HRRMax = 208-(.7*age)
My age is 46 as of today, so the formula is applied here:
HRRMax = 208-(.7*46)
Result:
HRRMax (100%) = 175.8 ~176 rounded for sanity.
To get your training zones, then apply the HRRMax to the rest of the formula:
(HRRMax-HRRRest)*HRRT%+HRRRest
My resting HR is 50.
For example, this is how I would calculate all of my zones using this formula:
HRR60%: (176-50)*.6)+50 = ~125
HRR70%: (176-50)*.7)+50 = ~138
HRR80%: (176-50)*.8)+50 = ~151
HRR90%: (176-50)*.9)+50 = ~163
When I did my VO2Max test - my zones were about 5 beats lower per zone.
Hope this helps!
This is the most recent information I've seen, and it's what I've been using lately, but I didn't know the name of the formula.
I'm 35 (close enough, anyway) with a resting heart rate of about 65 (been a while since I checked).
MAX = 208-(.7*35) = 183.5 rounded to 184.
(Max-Rest)*%+Rest
60% = (184-65)*.6+65= 136
70% = (184-65)*.7+65= 148
80% = (184-65)*.8+65= 160
90% = (184-65)*.9+65= 172
My peaks frequently exceed the 172 mark, and I've been worried that I've been over-exerting myself.
I'll be speaking to my PCP about this next month at my annual physical, but my exercise HR seems to be higher than I expected. When I do my steady-state runs, I'm often around 165 for the duration, which aligns closer to high intensity based on those calculations.
Is anyone aware of any literature on how this might vary from one individual to the next?
At 45, both of the estimates put me at 174&175. (My RHR is in the low 50s last time I checked.) It goes up to ~185 with a 30 second full-out sprint.
I run extended periods (IOW boring non-intense I can still talk) at about 84-85%, or 155 BPM.
I've done 30 minute tempo runs while at 90% (165) the entire time.
I don't understand the 60-70% thing. At that level it seriously doesn't even feel like I'm doing anything and I wouldn't even break a sweat.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm over like, "Get it together, heart! You're not beating the right way!"0 -
I just checked that study and it wasn't just for women its the same for men and women.
"no significant differences in the HRmax regression
equation were observed between men and women or between
sedentary (212- 0.7 x age) and endurance-trained
(205 - 0.6 x age) subjects."0 -
Your heart rate does not increase as a function of calories burned. It increases as a function of changes in blood pH/chemistry. Your muscles can work aerobically to produce CO2, or anaerobically to produce lactate. As your intensity/exertion increases, the proportion of aerobic to anaerobic fuel burning continues to change toward the anaerobic end.So to conclude, though my max HR should be about 173, it could be 10-15bpm out, therefore it could be up to about 190 which is pretty much what I think it is (or more) as I've seen it hit 185 while working out, but is around 170-175 when working very hard.
In addition caffeine impacts the number (which I suppose can also add to the possibly dangerous effect that you can have from such a high HR), though I'd like to know how much difference it can make. I usually have 1 cup of coffee in the morning and 1 mid afternoon plus cups of tea throughout the day.
I have manually adjusted my max HR on my Polar to 190, and the watch is set to warn me if I hit 90% of max so it will beep at me at 171! When this happened today (though it was set to 185 at the time and beeped at me at 167) I tried to tone down the intensity a little by taking a break for a few seconds though not sure if this is necessary.
Talking about steady state cardio and calorie burns I don't really understand why burns could be inaccurate if you are not doing this as surely the higher your heart rate the more calories you are burning, and if your HR comes down during interval training then you are not usually standing there doing nothing like in weight training workouts, but doing a cardio interval between either body weight or other exercises using weights. I would assume that the watch reduces the calories it records you as burning if your heart rate goes down, so for example with a HR of 170 I could be burning 10 cals per minute but if it drops to 150 that would go down to 8 cals per minute etc. giving you a fairly accurate figure at the end.
Both increase your heart rate, but because the two byproducts affect your blood chemistry differently and are also gotten rid of by different means, they do so at different levels per calorie burned.
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The formula is definitely an estimate. My heart rate while doing intense exercise (running hard) often stays at or even above the "maximum" for my age the whole time I'm working out.
I'm not even running hard (at least I don't think I am), but by the end of a 10k, I've kept my heart rate around 85% of maximum for ~60 minutes. That seems high based on my understanding, but I think if I plug in a max HR that's 10-15 bpm above what the formula shows, that would mean I'm in moderate intensity versus high intensity, which feels about right.0 -
Yeah I did that just a couple hours ago. If I go by the formula it's more like 90%.tincanonastring wrote: »The formula is definitely an estimate. My heart rate while doing intense exercise (running hard) often stays at or even above the "maximum" for my age the whole time I'm working out.
I'm not even running hard (at least I don't think I am), but by the end of a 10k, I've kept my heart rate around 85% of maximum for ~60 minutes. That seems high based on my understanding, but I think if I plug in a max HR that's 10-15 bpm above what the formula shows, that would mean I'm in moderate intensity versus high intensity, which feels about right.
I'd bet that just as the scale can vary in offset, it can also vary in width. Maybe it's just that our "zones" at that end of the scale are thinner?0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »95% - 110% of LTHR (lactate threshold heart rate) has been a stable since I started amateur bicycle racing in late 80's and define the parameters of HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) where you are stimulating improved physiological response in an anaerobic state. It's very hard training and most people get nowhere near the intensity necessary if you are following a DVD (and such). At best, most of the hype get you in the Steady State/Tempo training range.
Go to 11/26/2009 post for a quick guide on setting zones http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2009_11_01_archive.html.
AND good luck on getting a read from HRM when your are doing HIIT; the interval is typically over before HR catches up due to the lag. To analyze the training, you need a continuous recorder and do it after the fact.
Here some other interesting reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/steady-state-versus-interval-training-introduction.html/
Some terms should not be usurped to "dumb" things down and HIIT is one of them.
This is my biggest problem. I nearly ran into a stop sign the other day during a sprint while trying to check my stupid watch.
Lactate threshold heart rate is different from max heart rate, so I don't think you can apply it to the 95%-110% statement. Beyond that, though, one of your sources references HIIT programs at various peak percentages below the 95% mark, so I don't think you can say that one specific measurement "define the parameters of HIIT."
I don't think anyone in here, besides maybe the OP, was misusing the term. I'm still learning about it myself, so perhaps I'm wrong, but that's not the impression I got from anyone.
So the lactate threshold when running. There are several methods reviewed in Matt Fitzgerald's book 80/20 running, quoted section from page 111 and for most people the following would seem to fit since it is repeatable and predictable. 30 minute time trial--'Here's how it works: Warm up with several minutes of jogging, easy pace, and then run as far as you can in thirty minutes while wearing your HRM. Your average HR during the last 10 minutes of this effort is your lactate threshold heart rate.' The downside he mentions is it can be rather painful. He goes on to discuss the lactate rate corresponds to a 6 on a scale of 10 for perceived effort. He recommends doing the majority(80) of the running at a rate below 5 on the scale. So not his scale an 8=running a mile at that pace and no more(defined as hard). This is steady state cardio and is by no means similar to lifting heavy or HIIT.0 -
BUMP
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Sounds like there is a lot of confusion, please do some additional research but here is the fine print.
1. Max Heart Rate DOES NOT necessary equal to Lactate Threshold Heart Rate. LTHR is normally less than maximum heart rate but can equal to it. Assumption is max HR is approximately 110% of LTHR.
2. LTHR is assumed to be the heart rate that you can maintain for ONE HOUR in an AEROBIC state (primary; newer researches found that the delineation is not so clean) while EMPTYING your tank at the end of the hour mark. It also ASSUMES that at this level of intensity, you can not maintain the level of effort for over AN HOUR.
3. The lactate threshold (LT) (or lactate inflection point (LIP) or anaerobic threshold (AT)) is the exercise intensity at which lactate (more specifically, lactic acid) starts to accumulate in the blood stream.
4. The lactate threshold is a useful measure for deciding exercise intensity for training and racing in ENDURANCE SPORTS (e.g. long distance running, cycling, rowing, swimming and cross country skiing), but varies between individuals and can be increased with training.
5. The zones cited previously have been found to stimulate differing responds (data mostly from trained athletes).
* Can you exert greater than 100% LTHR? Yes but not for long and the duration depends on your fitness.
* Would working out at 90% LTHR for thirty minutes better than 2 hours at 60%? Depends, the stimulus derived from the training is different. To win an endurance race you need to get to the finish line fresh enough to contest the finish. The more efficient you are (lower rpm needed to go faster/harder), the higher the spike in the rpm you have before redlining (and finishing first).
* Why train at different zone? To improve/condition your ability to go faster/harder.
* Why are the test for LTHR less than one hour? Because it HARD to do so while maintaining a quasi - steady state so the data makes sense. The common tests used to determine LTHR is more than close enough to do the job if performed right.
* How often you should be testing? Lots of debates but generally before start of your training season, when you find your fitness has improved or decreased (inactivity, injuries, sickness, and what not - and need a new marker), to see if the training is working, and maybe at the end of season.
* Can anyone make use of this? YES as long as it is endurance based. This will not work for weight lifting, golf, soft ball, etc.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I really don't get the 'scale' either.tincanonastring wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »AllanMisner wrote: »The general guideline for maximum heart rate is 220 - your age. For light cardio, you should be at 60 - 70%, for intense cardio, you should be at 75 - 90%
What you were doing with resistance is actually a circuit training (they are misusing the name HIIT). True HIIT has you going full out for 20 - 30 seconds and then having a recovery period of 60 - 120 seconds. In that, you’ll run your heart rate up into the 95 - 110% range for that work period, and during recovery, you’re trying to get your heart rate back down to around 50 - 60%. If you’re doing this right, you’ll only be able to do this 5 - 10 cycles (I usually tap out at 8 rounds).
All of that said, I am not a fan of burning calories for the sake of losing weight. Fat loss comes from what and how much you eat. If you’re eating at a small deficit, you’ll lose weight slowly and steadily (the healthy way). Exercise should be done to improve other aspects of health (strength, endurance, muscle mass gain/retention, cardiovascular, mobility, balance, speed, agility, etc.). And then you eat back those workout calories to fuel the next workout.
Patience and persistence are the keys to success in fat loss and health improvement.
This is fine if you are looking for a baseline. There's a newer formula called the Karvonen formula. I like applying that one over the old version.
Here's a good link to check it out:
http://www.acefitness.org/blog/3502/advances-in-aerobic-training-how-to-apply-the-new
Here's how I calculate mine outside of doing the VO2Max and metabolic test:
HRRMax = 208-(.7*age)
My age is 46 as of today, so the formula is applied here:
HRRMax = 208-(.7*46)
Result:
HRRMax (100%) = 175.8 ~176 rounded for sanity.
To get your training zones, then apply the HRRMax to the rest of the formula:
(HRRMax-HRRRest)*HRRT%+HRRRest
My resting HR is 50.
For example, this is how I would calculate all of my zones using this formula:
HRR60%: (176-50)*.6)+50 = ~125
HRR70%: (176-50)*.7)+50 = ~138
HRR80%: (176-50)*.8)+50 = ~151
HRR90%: (176-50)*.9)+50 = ~163
When I did my VO2Max test - my zones were about 5 beats lower per zone.
Hope this helps!
This is the most recent information I've seen, and it's what I've been using lately, but I didn't know the name of the formula.
I'm 35 (close enough, anyway) with a resting heart rate of about 65 (been a while since I checked).
MAX = 208-(.7*35) = 183.5 rounded to 184.
(Max-Rest)*%+Rest
60% = (184-65)*.6+65= 136
70% = (184-65)*.7+65= 148
80% = (184-65)*.8+65= 160
90% = (184-65)*.9+65= 172
My peaks frequently exceed the 172 mark, and I've been worried that I've been over-exerting myself.
I'll be speaking to my PCP about this next month at my annual physical, but my exercise HR seems to be higher than I expected. When I do my steady-state runs, I'm often around 165 for the duration, which aligns closer to high intensity based on those calculations.
Is anyone aware of any literature on how this might vary from one individual to the next?
At 45, both of the estimates put me at 174&175. (My RHR is in the low 50s last time I checked.) It goes up to ~185 with a 30 second full-out sprint.
I run extended periods (IOW boring non-intense I can still talk) at about 84-85%, or 155 BPM.
I've done 30 minute tempo runs while at 90% (165) the entire time.
I don't understand the 60-70% thing. At that level it seriously doesn't even feel like I'm doing anything and I wouldn't even break a sweat.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm over like, "Get it together, heart! You're not beating the right way!"
And that's why I've been interested in this thread. The other day I did the heart rate zone program on the elliptical and after putting in my stats it said my max HR was 142 and once I hit that level it would MAKE me get down to 115 before moving on to the next segment! For me, dropping to 115 required me to almost completely stop and it took several minutes to get there and the machine kept thinking I had paused it and it was all very frustrating.
Also, 145 is NOT my max HR. I stopped that program and did my usual intervals instead and my HR stayed between 164 - 172 the entire time. THAT to me is a workout.0
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