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Eating what you like vs. clean eating vs. following weight watchers or low carb or other method
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Mycophilia.
Yeah, I went and looked at his diary. I'm not sure what most of those foods are. I can't really say for sure if they are the kind of thing you would want to eat more of or not. I wouldn't draw a lot of conclusions from any one posters comments on MFP threads. There are people who comment on here that sound totally reasonable, and when I go out and look at their diary, or we become friends, then I realize they are eating a VLCD or completely restricting food groups in a way that I am not in favor of. Then there are people who sound a little extreme, and if I go check out their diaries, turns out they are eating a balanced, varied diet hitting their micros/macros and making room for treats as well.
Point being that context and dosage is critical with these type of threads.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
Nope. I think you're holding onto a skewed viewpoint.
And that's the difference between you and me - I accept your viewpoint as valid for you - you don't accept mine as valid for me.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
Nope. You posted an analogy about cars:
I took that to be about the 7054 threads where someone asks for ideas from "clean" eaters. I think a better analogy is someone says "I am trying to reduce my carbon footprint, can hybrid owners tell me how." Someone who doesn't happen to own a hybrid might just as easily have smart things to say about the carbon footprint, so what's the point of asking only hybrid owners (and at least there's a commonly recognized definition of what a hybrid is).
So my question is what disqualifies me from having something of interest to say about cooking that a so-called "clean" eater wouldn't find valuable? The underlying assumption appears to be that if you don't own a hybrid you must not care about the environment at all and act as wastefully as possible in all relevant areas of life.
(Off-topic, but I actually do own a hybrid, and yet I don't think this means I have the market cornered on how to limit my carbon footprint, which I'm sure is immense.)
I'm also having Brussels sprouts for dinner, I think. Roasted with leftover Easter lamb and sunchokes.
GOOD LORD! Gosh. Wow. Umm. NO. I was NOT thinking of clean eating in the slightest. Sorry if my analogy confused you. I wasn't thinking of clean eating when I posted it. I was actually half pondering low carb. But generally looking for an analogy that would work with EVERY "I eat x way, looking for more Xers" post that is invariably followed by "why eat X way, you should eat Y way" and what not.
As for all the other leaps, given that you misunderstood my intent, the underlying assumptions are invalid as well.
Perhaps: Someone posts on a honda forum asking what the best floor mats are for a honda and everyone replies get a toyota?
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Or wants to meet other low carbers we'll all answer giving them new low carb ideas or links to groups where they can meet other low carbers? Great!
I can't control what others say in low carb threads like that any more than you can control the people who pop up to insist that carbs are evil and bad or that sugar is the devil or the like.
However, I know for a fact that I have consistently recommended that newby low carb people check out the low carb threads, since most of them seem to need better understanding of how low carbing works (lately lots seem to want to be low carb and low fat).
Also, if someone says "aren't carbs bad when you want to lose weight?" or "I was told that it's easier to lose weight when low carbing" I DO say that that's not so, IME, but that people vary and if they are interested in low carb to check it out. I've also been know to suggest that when someone seems not to even understand what carbs are or how to low carb that they start by just exchanging some carbs for fat or protein foods or decreasing some portions and increasing others (which they can see how to do by looking at their diaries). AND when people ask for examples of low carb foods I've reeled some off from time to time (usually meat, which seems obvious, but again lots of people seem to decide to low carb without even knowing what carbs are and what foods contain them).
Maybe the only answer that I'm supposed to give in your view is "yes, low carb is an excellent choice, go to the thread," but I don't see what's wrong with any of these.0 -
And that's the difference between you and me - I accept your viewpoint as valid for you - you don't accept mine as valid for me.
I accept that yours is valid for you as a general philosophy, but in this case, I don't understand holding onto looking at an unhealthy behavior as a norm that you're deviating from as an ongoing strategy.
So, it's cool that you prefer to think that way... can you shed some light on your thinking behind it for me, though.
I'm just fascinated by the different thought process, honestly. Not really picking a nit at this point, I'm truly interested.
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I eat what I want. I don't do well restricting certain foods or food groups. If I want a piece of cake or a cookie, I eat a lighter dinner to free up my calories.0
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Indeed. I can't control what others say, nor the assumptions they make.lemurcat12 wrote: »
I can't control what others say in low carb threads like that any more than you can control the people who pop up to insist that carbs are evil and bad or that sugar is the devil or the like.
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stevencloser wrote: »
How big is your deficit if 100 calories of non nutrient dense food is going to offput your fitness and health goals?
I've also used ice cream to meet my goals. Meeting your fat and carbs from a "healthy" food source doesn't give you extra life points than if you chose to do it with a bowl of ice cream
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But it's not just 100 calories - because it's not just ice cream. Let's say we bring in the ice cream - what about the other treats? Do I say yes to all of them, just because "it's only 100 calories!"...?
What about the Dorritos? The hot dogs? The Key Lime Pie?
The line has to be drawn somewhere - that's the meaning of "restriction". And where ever that line is drawn, there will be a whole lot of things you have to say "No" to. Even if you don't totally exclude, you most exclude - and it's still a lot of saying "No".
There's no way around it.
Ice cream Monday, Dorritos Tuesday, Hot dogs (these are considered "treats"?) Wednesday, pie on Thursday?
Just eat one slide of pie instead of the whole pie
You seem to be forever confused about the notion of reduced intake and moderation vs elimination. But it only seems to pop up when the topic of "bad" food is brought up, and not for things like fruits and veggies (which I've had to moderate as well) or cheese or PB or meat or fish...0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
There's no reason an argument has to go on. Why would it? Again, why the desire to segregate? If I were looking for recipes involving broccoli I'd, well, look on the internet or in one of my cookbooks for ideas, but if I thought to ask on MFP I'd say "hey, does anyone have broccoli ideas"? or "ideas for dinner focusing on lean meat and broccoli"?
It would never cross my mind to say "I need "clean" eaters to help me figure out how to eat broccoli." Why on earth would anyone assume that the rest of us don't eat broccoli? Or eat broccoli only with chocolate sauce or on top of McD's fries?
I love eating broccoli with melted cheese, especially if I throw some pasta and meat in there.... am I negating the benefits of broccoli by eating pasta with it or am I in the clear? Or maybe it's the cheese that erases the broccoli intake?0 -
You are holding two contradictory principles at the same time - you're going to have to let one of those go, eventually.
Semantics. And if that works for you...fantastic! :drinker:
Neither are contradictory. I ate a HUGE meal yesterday for eater, a bigger plate than I've eaten in ages, it was logged at ~1400 calories including the dessert. Much of it was all estimates as well. I was STUFFED. Like, I had logged fruit and a salad (a few hundred calories overall) and I had to shift that to being my dinner because my stomach physically hurt from eating so much. Yet before I joined MFP that portion would have possibly been followed up with a second helping of some of the most delicious food and with a large piece of dessert and a regular dinner. So for me, portions that I eat now ARE normal for me and are not restrictive. Much like someone who has never struggled with weight would not see their portion sizes as restrictive. An entire box of chocolate no longer resembles a normal portion to me, so does that mean that me eating that box over 2 months is restricting?
But I'm going to guess in advance that you'd argue that unless one is eating 24hrs a day ,any consumption patterns are restrictive, and that eating one piece of chocolate instead of a whole box in a sitting means elimination of chocolate, etc. Weird games that don't belong on the forums.0 -
And what if you have no more calories to consume but you still want more food ? Or do you automatically stop 'wanting' for foods after your calorie/protein macros have been hit?
Not the person you quoted, but in this situation I either a) eat it tomorrow, b) eat it tonight and hit maintenance needs, or c) I don't actually want food once I've reached my calorie goal since I'm usually full or full enough until bed (if I eat too early I might get a bit peckish before bed).0 -
Yes, there are such people. I frequent the forums quite a bit, and I have actually seen what I described, maybe not in the exact words I've used, but definitely along those lines.
Then you are clearly not referring to MFP, because this does not occur. And if something like this does, it's someone twisting someone else's words to reflect this asinine notion.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »As for all the other leaps, given that you misunderstood my intent, the underlying assumptions are invalid as well.
Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that was your underlying assumption, but using the analogy to illustrate what I find to be the faulty assumption underlying the "looking for 'clean' eaters" threads.
But given that you weren't referring to those, we can drop it.
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For me, it's not so much eat whatever I want, but want and really enjoy what I eat.
If I only ate whatever I wanted, I'd eat appetizers and desserts all the time. I never really think, "I could really go for broccoli right now." I don't dislike broccoli. With a meal, I have no problem eating it. But I've never craved it.
So instead, I make meals that are delicious and enjoyable.0 -
I love eating broccoli with melted cheese, especially if I throw some pasta and meat in there.... am I negating the benefits of broccoli by eating pasta with it or am I in the clear? Or maybe it's the cheese that erases the broccoli intake?
Are cheese and pasta and meat not "clean"? This is why the "need clean recipes" thing is confusing always.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
Are cheese and pasta and meat not "clean"? This is why the "need clean recipes" thing is confusing always.
I have no idea. I'm sure plenty of people wouldn't consider pasta clean (because it's from a box?) even though my rice pasta contains basically just rice brand and water. And we have some chicken in the fridge with barbecue sauce on it, so the barbecue sauce is probably not clean. As for the cheese, maybe it'd only be clean if it came from a specific farm or wasn't pasturized or w/e.
I'm a former clean eater and I don't even know what does nad doesn't apply to this term.0 -
Timorous_Beastie wrote: »For me, it's not so much eat whatever I want, but want and really enjoy what I eat.
If I only ate whatever I wanted, I'd eat appetizers and desserts all the time. I never really think, "I could really go for broccoli right now." I don't dislike broccoli. With a meal, I have no problem eating it. But I've never craved it.
So instead, I make meals that are delicious and enjoyable.
I frequently crave fruit and veggies, particularly carrots, peas, and peppers. I've eaten all of these as snacks (like, huge bowls of them) even when I was nearing, if not actually, obese. I've just always loved the taste. I also do crave broccoli now, although usually I think "omg I really want broccoli!" and then think of things to add to it, like my go-to pasta + cheese + protein combo.0 -
And what if you have no more calories to consume but you still want more food ? Or do you automatically stop 'wanting' for foods after your calorie/protein macros have been hit?
Stop eating or eat some more and go over....is it going to ruin you to go over by 50 or 150 calories in grand scheme of things????0 -
Ice cream Monday, Dorritos Tuesday, Hot dogs (these are considered "treats"?) Wednesday, pie on Thursday?
Just eat one slide of pie instead of the whole pie
A slice of key lime pie is ~500 calories.
Shall I pull out my tablespoon-sized serving dish again?
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »That you find it ironic is, indeed, ironic.
If you look, you'll find that how you view my approach isn't really compatible with reality.
Lol so you never comment off topic in threads?????? Suuuuuuurrreeeeeee.....0 -
A tablespoon is 15ml. A traditional scoop of ice cream is (or at least was) 50ml. A typical ice cream is ~2.5 calories/ml, so it's a difference of roughly 40 calories vs 120 calories.
I don't have 80 extra calories to blow on it, and a tablespoon would just be torturing myself, so....easier to abstain entirely.
Others are free to chose their own "right" answer, even if it involves detached-from-reality hyperbole....
:drinker:
I am sorry that you have such an absurdly low calorie goal that you can't fit in a serving of ice cream, or find said serving to be satisfying0 -
Nobody did.
You implied it0 -
I just got off a plane and am catching up...
I love how this thread has been derailed by the semantics crew ...0 -
I am sorry that you have such an absurdly low calorie goal that you can't fit in a serving of ice cream, or find said serving to be satisfying
Since you have no idea what my goals or targets are, don't know what my personal preferences are, nor what my context is, you're not really in a position to be "sorry" for anything.
But thanks, anyway.
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I havent gone through all the pages and read all the response/posts but im with you on your logic Mr_Knight.0
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Since you have no idea what my goals or targets are, don't know what my personal preferences are, nor what my context is, you're not really in a position to be "sorry" for anything.
But thanks, anyway.
You are welcome
Based on your ice team comment I have all the information I need
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Lol so you never comment off topic in threads?????? Suuuuuuurrreeeeeee.....
Not quite what I said.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Not quite what I said.
It never is....
But you already semi de railed this one ..so the proof is in the pudding....sugar free of course0
This discussion has been closed.
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