Female trying to gain muscle tone?
jangus9416
Posts: 69 Member
I was trying to lose about 15-18 lbs, but now that I've lost 12 I've realized the body I want isn't lean but toned. I need help with a plan to gain muscle mass, because I've only ever focused on losing fat. I'm not sure how to change my diet or even if I need to. Any help to get started would be much appreciated!
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Replies
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A good start would be reading the sticky in the gaining forum ...
but here is what I would say:
set MFP to .5 pound per week gain and eat to that number.
pick a heavy lifting program like strong lifts, starting strength, new rules of lifting for woman and follow said program.
make sure that you eat nutrient dense foods, but also fill that in with calorie dense foods like ice cream, bagels, pasta, etc.
hit your macro/micro/calorie targets
repeat until you get desired results..
the number that you eat to, to gain, is going to be trial and error so you may have to adjust it...
Also, back all cardio down to 30 minutes a week max.0 -
See, this terrifies me. I don't want to gain fat and with calorie dense foods and cardio once a week it sounds very unhealthy. The last time I lost weight though I actually got too low on the BMI scale, and I'm trying to avoid that again. Ugh.0
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Just to clarify, are you trying to gain muscle mass or just have a less flabby body?0
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jangus9416 wrote: »See, this terrifies me. I don't want to gain fat and with calorie dense foods and cardio once a week it sounds very unhealthy. The last time I lost weight though I actually got too low on the BMI scale, and I'm trying to avoid that again. Ugh.
if you want to gain muscle then some fat gain is going to happen. Typically it is a 1:1 ratio, so if you gain 10 pounds it will be five pounds of fat and five pounds of muscle...
You could go for a recomp, where you eat at maintenance and then lose some body fat and gain some muscle...it is however, a slow process...or at least that is my understanding.
What would be unhealthy about gaining muscle? You indicated that you are not happy with your current progress, so why not try something different?
Do you currently strength train/lift heavy?
Do you know what your current body fat % is?0 -
Good for you -- natural muscles on girls are hot!
If you've never lifted weights before, the easiest way to get started is to use the machines. But they are limiting -- once you start getting stronger they're not ideal for your joint health. I would recommend you hire a trainer to teach you to do freeweight exercises like barbell squats, deadlifts, bench press, and so on, because you won't be limited by the equipment. Having an experienced person watching to make sure your form is good is really important.
This is a pretty good program for getting started, it will give you a good overall balance, hitting all the major muscle groups and giving you good looking balanced muscle development. Some people recommend lower reps at higher weights (like 5 sets of 5 reps), but I think 8-10 reps is the best for beginners -- you will still get good strength and muscle growth, with less risk of injury.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-beginner-weight-training-workout-routine/0 -
Good for you -- natural muscles on girls are hot!
If you've never lifted weights before, the easiest way to get started is to use the machines. But they are limiting -- once you start getting stronger they're not ideal for your joint health. I would recommend you hire a trainer to teach you to do freeweight exercises like barbell squats, deadlifts, bench press, and so on, because you won't be limited by the equipment. Having an experienced person watching to make sure your form is good is really important.
This is a pretty good program for getting started, it will give you a good overall balance, hitting all the major muscle groups and giving you good looking balanced muscle development. Some people recommend lower reps at higher weights (like 5 sets of 5 reps), but I think 8-10 reps is the best for beginners -- you will still get good strength and muscle growth, with less risk of injury.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-beginner-weight-training-workout-routine/
What are unnatural muscles?0 -
Good for you -- natural muscles on girls are hot!
If you've never lifted weights before, the easiest way to get started is to use the machines. But they are limiting -- once you start getting stronger they're not ideal for your joint health. I would recommend you hire a trainer to teach you to do freeweight exercises like barbell squats, deadlifts, bench press, and so on, because you won't be limited by the equipment. Having an experienced person watching to make sure your form is good is really important.
This is a pretty good program for getting started, it will give you a good overall balance, hitting all the major muscle groups and giving you good looking balanced muscle development. Some people recommend lower reps at higher weights (like 5 sets of 5 reps), but I think 8-10 reps is the best for beginners -- you will still get good strength and muscle growth, with less risk of injury.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-beginner-weight-training-workout-routine/
What are unnatural muscles?
ones generated by steroid use????????0 -
jangus9416 wrote: »See, this terrifies me. I don't want to gain fat and with calorie dense foods and cardio once a week it sounds very unhealthy. The last time I lost weight though I actually got too low on the BMI scale, and I'm trying to avoid that again. Ugh.
if you want to gain muscle then some fat gain is going to happen. Typically it is a 1:1 ratio, so if you gain 10 pounds it will be five pounds of fat and five pounds of muscle...
You could go for a recomp, where you eat at maintenance and then lose some body fat and gain some muscle...it is however, a slow process...or at least that is my understanding.
What would be unhealthy about gaining muscle? You indicated that you are not happy with your current progress, so why not try something different?
Do you currently strength train/lift heavy?
Do you know what your current body fat % is?
Gaining muscle isn't unhealthy, just the calorie dense foods. I'm used to a 1200 calorie day with fruits and vegetables, I'm not really sure how to do anything different. I also prefer eating the most natural foods possible.0 -
I do currently strength train and I haven't gotten my body fat since before I started losing weight. I'm 5'5" and 118 so I'm pretty small. Two years ago I got down to 1080
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I started doing Insanity 5 weeks ago and it is giving me great muscle definition without gaining weight. I eat 1500 cal a day. I think its a great program because it builds muscle and is a cardio workout but no equipment is need.0
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hnovak0103 wrote: »I started doing Insanity 5 weeks ago and it is giving me great muscle definition without gaining weight. I eat 1500 cal a day. I think its a great program because it builds muscle and is a cardio workout but no equipment is need.
You're not building muscle A.) with cardio and B.) eating at a caloric deficit.0 -
jangus9416 wrote: »I do currently strength train and I haven't gotten my body fat since before I started losing weight. I'm 5'5" and 118 so I'm pretty small. Two years ago I got down to 108
Ok, lets go over a few things..
calorie dense foods are not "unhealthy." You really need to rethink how you are viewing food and stop thinking about it in terms of "good" "bad", etc, and just view it for what it is, which is something that fuels our body.
There is nothing wrong with eating ice cream, bagels, pasta etc, in the context of an overall diet that hits macros/micros/calorie targets for the day.
Yes, you should eat eggs, whole wheat, rice, chicken, fish, vegetables, but there is nothing wrong with throwing in bagels, cookies, ice cream, etc.
when you want to add muscle calories are king. You can bulk on 100% broccoli, chicken, rice, and vegetables (good luck doing that as you are going to be miserable) and you will still gain fat.
This is very important - no matter what foods you eat if you are in a calorie surplus then you are going to gain weight.
Do you follow a structured strength training program, or is it a homemade one?0 -
hnovak0103 wrote: »I started doing Insanity 5 weeks ago and it is giving me great muscle definition without gaining weight. I eat 1500 cal a day. I think its a great program because it builds muscle and is a cardio workout but no equipment is need.
If you are new to training you may gain some small amount of muscle, but I doubt you are gaining muscle doing insanity and eating 1500..
what you are seeing is probably newbie gains + body fat reduction + water retention = appearance of gaining muscle...0 -
I do a lot of body weight/resistance training and BodyPump (weights). I'd say Google some body weight routines and start there - add weights if you want more definition.0
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jangus9416 wrote: »I do currently strength train and I haven't gotten my body fat since before I started losing weight. I'm 5'5" and 118 so I'm pretty small. Two years ago I got down to 108
Ok, lets go over a few things..
calorie dense foods are not "unhealthy." You really need to rethink how you are viewing food and stop thinking about it in terms of "good" "bad", etc, and just view it for what it is, which is something that fuels our body.
There is nothing wrong with eating ice cream, bagels, pasta etc, in the context of an overall diet that hits macros/micros/calorie targets for the day.
Yes, you should eat eggs, whole wheat, rice, chicken, fish, vegetables, but there is nothing wrong with throwing in bagels, cookies, ice cream, etc.
when you want to add muscle calories are king. You can bulk on 100% broccoli, chicken, rice, and vegetables (good luck doing that as you are going to be miserable) and you will still gain fat.
This is very important - no matter what foods you eat if you are in a calorie surplus then you are going to gain weight.
Do you follow a structured strength training program, or is it a homemade one?
OP please please listen to this golden advice! I floundered around skinny fat for years, decades, starve binging.
It's only since I learned to bulk and cut have I managed to get a body that i can't take my eyes off (sounds vain I know, but I was mortally embarrassed about my sagginess so I'm entitled!)
Bulk until you can't squeeze into your clothes, then slow slow cut. Hey presto! A new hot body
Also, imagine a life where you can eat 2000/2500 calories a day of good food AND treats, and still have great measurements...... It's a dream.
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You are definitely going to have to change your meals if you want go from losing to gaining. Carbs and fat are going to help. You will gain some fat along the way to building muscle, and you have to be prepared for that. Don't be afraid!0
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A LOT of solid advice in here.0
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Hi there, I understand your issue of gaining fat while trying to build your muscle mass. What you need to do initially is have a body fat analysis done so that you know what your lean body mass - fat mass is so that you can then establish a daily caloric intake that will support muscle gain and limit fat gain. I understand that your trying to muscle up an not bulk up, so if you don't know what your daily caloric intake should be (the only accurate way to get to this point is to know how much lean body mass you have) then you can never gain muscle without also gaining as much as, or more fat.
Here in our facility we use an anthropological lbw / fat testing method which is very non invasive and as easy as measuring as accurately as you can... your wrist with the tape measure running over the bony protrusion, your forarm at the widest point, your waist running the tape measure in a straight line at belly button height, your hips running a tape measure around the very top of your hip bones, and weighing yourself first thing in the am upon rising and having gone to the bathroom and completely naked. Knowing these measurements and your naked weight we then run them thru a program and can pretty accurately determine your LBW (lean body weight) and your fat weight. From there with some additional calculations we can figure out your BMR (basal metobolic rate, the rate at which your body burns calories while laying on the couch doing nothing but not sleeping), factor in your activity levels and give you a pretty accurate caloric need for the day and what you should take in for adding muscle to your frame while keeping the fat gains to a bare minimum.
One also has to difference between strength training and hypertrophy training (muscle building) which is what you want.
If you want to send me your measurements I would be happy to figure out your daily caloric needs, broken down into carbs/proteins/fats for you and offer up some advice as to how to go about implementing a hypertrophy training program.
With the right nutritional plan, adherence to a regular hypertrophy training program, adequate rest, a good positive mental attitude and a view to the future there is no reason why you cannot put on good quality muscle mass and keep the fat levels to a bare minimum.
This will not happen in a week or a month but you should be in this for life and not looking for any quick fix, for if you are then you can expect to put on plenty of fat with your muscle gain.
However you decide to go about your muscle gain, all the best and even if your not looking to get more muscular keep exercising and training hard to stay fit and healthy.
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Thank you for all of the help! I think I'll keep doing research and find what I really want to do and make sure I'm doing it right. Also, if you view my diary after reading that I like to eat nutritional food, just ignore the chickfila0
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hnovak0103 wrote: »I started doing Insanity 5 weeks ago and it is giving me great muscle definition without gaining weight. I eat 1500 cal a day. I think its a great program because it builds muscle and is a cardio workout but no equipment is need.
My college aged daughter and her friends did the insanity program and they were ripped at the end. so much muscle definition that was not there before. Its was insane to watch them.
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Okay so getting ripped and bulking are two different things. I'm not really sure what I want in that case; just some definition in my shoulders and abs, and for my thighs to be more toned. Why do I need to up my calories? Is it not possible to gain muscle at a deficit? My understanding is you will lose fat and gain muscle if you're at a deficit but still properly feuling your body. I'm probably wrong, I just need some clarification.0
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jangus9416 wrote: »Okay so getting ripped and bulking are two different things. I'm not really sure what I want in that case; just some definition in my shoulders and abs, and for my thighs to be more toned. Why do I need to up my calories? Is it not possible to gain muscle at a deficit? My understanding is you will lose fat and gain muscle if you're at a deficit but still properly feuling your body. I'm probably wrong, I just need some clarification.
Yes you're wrong.
All you need to do it eat 250 cals above maintenance per day for a half a pound a week gain, which if you're progressivly lifting heavier and eating .8g of protein per lb of body weight will hopefully give you 50/50 muscle to fat. Afterwards you cut the fat you gained just do it slowly and carefully.
There is no way to cheat the fat gain. Trust me, I've tried, and all the others here. You can try slow recomping, but it's far too difficult and easy to not get any muscle gain at all.
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Hi there, I understand your issue of gaining fat while trying to build your muscle mass. What you need to do initially is have a body fat analysis done so that you know what your lean body mass - fat mass is so that you can then establish a daily caloric intake that will support muscle gain and limit fat gain. I understand that your trying to muscle up an not bulk up, so if you don't know what your daily caloric intake should be (the only accurate way to get to this point is to know how much lean body mass you have) then you can never gain muscle without also gaining as much as, or more fat.
Here in our facility we use an anthropological lbw / fat testing method which is very non invasive and as easy as measuring as accurately as you can... your wrist with the tape measure running over the bony protrusion, your forarm at the widest point, your waist running the tape measure in a straight line at belly button height, your hips running a tape measure around the very top of your hip bones, and weighing yourself first thing in the am upon rising and having gone to the bathroom and completely naked. Knowing these measurements and your naked weight we then run them thru a program and can pretty accurately determine your LBW (lean body weight) and your fat weight. From there with some additional calculations we can figure out your BMR (basal metobolic rate, the rate at which your body burns calories while laying on the couch doing nothing but not sleeping), factor in your activity levels and give you a pretty accurate caloric need for the day and what you should take in for adding muscle to your frame while keeping the fat gains to a bare minimum.
One also has to difference between strength training and hypertrophy training (muscle building) which is what you want.
If you want to send me your measurements I would be happy to figure out your daily caloric needs, broken down into carbs/proteins/fats for you and offer up some advice as to how to go about implementing a hypertrophy training program.
With the right nutritional plan, adherence to a regular hypertrophy training program, adequate rest, a good positive mental attitude and a view to the future there is no reason why you cannot put on good quality muscle mass and keep the fat levels to a bare minimum.
This will not happen in a week or a month but you should be in this for life and not looking for any quick fix, for if you are then you can expect to put on plenty of fat with your muscle gain.
However you decide to go about your muscle gain, all the best and even if your not looking to get more muscular keep exercising and training hard to stay fit and healthy.
Shes lean enough, that's all she needs to know.
To gain muscle and fat at the best ratio possible women are advised to eat 1750 cals a week extra, men twice that.
You're making it too complicated, and promising something which isn't really there, minimal fat gain.
It's not rocket science. Loads of us have done it and reduced our body fat.
Bulk n cut innit.
Only the mentally strong who are willing to gain the fat get the rewards in the end.
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Springfield1970 wrote: »jangus9416 wrote: »Okay so getting ripped and bulking are two different things. I'm not really sure what I want in that case; just some definition in my shoulders and abs, and for my thighs to be more toned. Why do I need to up my calories? Is it not possible to gain muscle at a deficit? My understanding is you will lose fat and gain muscle if you're at a deficit but still properly feuling your body. I'm probably wrong, I just need some clarification.
Yes you're wrong.
All you need to do it eat 250 cals above maintenance per day for a half a pound a week gain, which if you're progressivly lifting heavier and eating .8g of protein per lb of body weight will hopefully give you 50/50 muscle to fat. Afterwards you cut the fat you gained just do it slowly and carefully.
There is no way to cheat the fat gain. Trust me, I've tried, and all the others here. You can try slow recomping, but it's far too difficult and easy to not get any muscle gain at all.
Looks like I'll just have to suck it up. I hate putting on weight after I just worked to get rid of it, but I know it will be a lot better for me physically. Thanks again0 -
No, that happens if you eat at maintenance (very slowly).jangus9416 wrote: »My understanding is you will lose fat and gain muscle if you're at a deficit but still properly feuling your body.
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jangus9416 wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »jangus9416 wrote: »Okay so getting ripped and bulking are two different things. I'm not really sure what I want in that case; just some definition in my shoulders and abs, and for my thighs to be more toned. Why do I need to up my calories? Is it not possible to gain muscle at a deficit? My understanding is you will lose fat and gain muscle if you're at a deficit but still properly feuling your body. I'm probably wrong, I just need some clarification.
Yes you're wrong.
All you need to do it eat 250 cals above maintenance per day for a half a pound a week gain, which if you're progressivly lifting heavier and eating .8g of protein per lb of body weight will hopefully give you 50/50 muscle to fat. Afterwards you cut the fat you gained just do it slowly and carefully.
There is no way to cheat the fat gain. Trust me, I've tried, and all the others here. You can try slow recomping, but it's far too difficult and easy to not get any muscle gain at all.
Looks like I'll just have to suck it up. I hate putting on weight after I just worked to get rid of it, but I know it will be a lot better for me physically. Thanks again
I kicked and screamed about the idea of bulking as I'd just been through hell to lose the weight.
I was so surprised at what happened during my bulk! I loved how my body looked EVEN at the top when I'd gained 10lb. It was all in the right places! I only cut to get my running times faster.
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jangus9416 wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »jangus9416 wrote: »Okay so getting ripped and bulking are two different things. I'm not really sure what I want in that case; just some definition in my shoulders and abs, and for my thighs to be more toned. Why do I need to up my calories? Is it not possible to gain muscle at a deficit? My understanding is you will lose fat and gain muscle if you're at a deficit but still properly feuling your body. I'm probably wrong, I just need some clarification.
Yes you're wrong.
All you need to do it eat 250 cals above maintenance per day for a half a pound a week gain, which if you're progressivly lifting heavier and eating .8g of protein per lb of body weight will hopefully give you 50/50 muscle to fat. Afterwards you cut the fat you gained just do it slowly and carefully.
There is no way to cheat the fat gain. Trust me, I've tried, and all the others here. You can try slow recomping, but it's far too difficult and easy to not get any muscle gain at all.
Looks like I'll just have to suck it up. I hate putting on weight after I just worked to get rid of it, but I know it will be a lot better for me physically. Thanks again
Take "before" pics and regular progress pics.
There are so many stories of women on here, with pics, who added strength training and ate at a mild surplus... and in the end, their weight was up, but their bodies looked better than ever.
Try to get the number out of your head, and instead focus on the body you want. You may find that five pounds higher, with more muscle mass, looks way better to you than ten pounds lighter and very little.0 -
Because they lost a layer of fat that covered the muscles they already had.....Insanity is pure cardio, no one can build muscle with that.....hnovak0103 wrote: »I started doing Insanity 5 weeks ago and it is giving me great muscle definition without gaining weight. I eat 1500 cal a day. I think its a great program because it builds muscle and is a cardio workout but no equipment is need.
My college aged daughter and her friends did the insanity program and they were ripped at the end. so much muscle definition that was not there before. Its was insane to watch them.
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