Female trying to gain muscle tone?
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jangus9416 wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »jangus9416 wrote: »Okay so getting ripped and bulking are two different things. I'm not really sure what I want in that case; just some definition in my shoulders and abs, and for my thighs to be more toned. Why do I need to up my calories? Is it not possible to gain muscle at a deficit? My understanding is you will lose fat and gain muscle if you're at a deficit but still properly feuling your body. I'm probably wrong, I just need some clarification.
Yes you're wrong.
All you need to do it eat 250 cals above maintenance per day for a half a pound a week gain, which if you're progressivly lifting heavier and eating .8g of protein per lb of body weight will hopefully give you 50/50 muscle to fat. Afterwards you cut the fat you gained just do it slowly and carefully.
There is no way to cheat the fat gain. Trust me, I've tried, and all the others here. You can try slow recomping, but it's far too difficult and easy to not get any muscle gain at all.
Looks like I'll just have to suck it up. I hate putting on weight after I just worked to get rid of it, but I know it will be a lot better for me physically. Thanks again
take beginning pictures and measurements (arms, waist, thighs, shoulders) and then take additional measurements about every four weeks.
I think you will find that you actually enjoy eating more food….but then again, I have always been one that loved crushing large amounts of food.
I have a lot of woman on my friends lists on here (spring included) that have run bulk/cut cycles and they look freaking amazing…and not bulky or fat at ALL….0 -
There is some great advise in this thread. I have just gone through the same thing, I was too scared to eat more and had been weight training for a yr with no results. I was 110 pounds and skinny fat.
The minute I bit the bullet, upped cals and really focused on my weight training I started seeing the results I wanted. See my thread in the eat train, progress group "getting frustrated" and also read the advise in the sticky topics. Then get started!!!
So glad I found that group as my body is looking awesome!!! I even got told last night by a stranger at a boot amp class that my abs are insane, so happy!!! will never go back to low cals and being tired all the time.0 -
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Check out StrongLifts 5x5 - they have online videos and a lot of information on strength training including a phone app0
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hnovak0103 wrote: »I started doing Insanity 5 weeks ago and it is giving me great muscle definition without gaining weight. I eat 1500 cal a day. I think its a great program because it builds muscle and is a cardio workout but no equipment is need.
My college aged daughter and her friends did the insanity program and they were ripped at the end. so much muscle definition that was not there before. Its was insane to watch them.
I did insanity and you do look great but basically you just get rid of some fat above your muscles. Your muscles don't really get bigger and so if your looking for a program to make you stronger (give you bigger muscles/abs) insanity doesn't really give that to you (or at least that's what it did for me of course everyone's different). Why don't you alternate and bulk up for four/three weeks and then use a slight calorie deficit and limit strength to once a week and focus on cardio for the next few weeks. Maybe that would combat the extra fat but make sure you keep the muscle? (I'm no expert so maybe do some research )
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Springfield have you written any blogs on how you achieved your amazing bod? I'd love to read0
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jacksonleyla1 wrote: »hnovak0103 wrote: »I started doing Insanity 5 weeks ago and it is giving me great muscle definition without gaining weight. I eat 1500 cal a day. I think its a great program because it builds muscle and is a cardio workout but no equipment is need.
My college aged daughter and her friends did the insanity program and they were ripped at the end. so much muscle definition that was not there before. Its was insane to watch them.
I did insanity and you do look great but basically you just get rid of some fat above your muscles. Your muscles don't really get bigger and so if your looking for a program to make you stronger (give you bigger muscles/abs) insanity doesn't really give that to you (or at least that's what it did for me of course everyone's different). Why don't you alternate and bulk up for four/three weeks and then use a slight calorie deficit and limit strength to once a week and focus on cardio for the next few weeks. Maybe that would combat the extra fat but make sure you keep the muscle? (I'm no expert so maybe do some research )
because that is the definition of spinning your wheels. It can sometimes take two weeks to get your intake right and start gaining, so why would you then just bulk for two more weeks transition to a deficit and lose the one pound you gained and be back to where you started.?? What is the point of that?
so you are saying if you bulked and gained two pounds, one pound of muscle, and then lose two pounds, that you won't lose the muscle????0 -
jacksonleyla1 wrote: »hnovak0103 wrote: »I started doing Insanity 5 weeks ago and it is giving me great muscle definition without gaining weight. I eat 1500 cal a day. I think its a great program because it builds muscle and is a cardio workout but no equipment is need.
My college aged daughter and her friends did the insanity program and they were ripped at the end. so much muscle definition that was not there before. Its was insane to watch them.
I did insanity and you do look great but basically you just get rid of some fat above your muscles. Your muscles don't really get bigger and so if your looking for a program to make you stronger (give you bigger muscles/abs) insanity doesn't really give that to you (or at least that's what it did for me of course everyone's different). Why don't you alternate and bulk up for four/three weeks and then use a slight calorie deficit and limit strength to once a week and focus on cardio for the next few weeks. Maybe that would combat the extra fat but make sure you keep the muscle? (I'm no expert so maybe do some research )
Because bulking for 3 weeks gets you absolutely no where.
like ND said- it's the epitome of spinning your wheels.0 -
Springfield1970 wrote: »jangus9416 wrote: »I do currently strength train and I haven't gotten my body fat since before I started losing weight. I'm 5'5" and 118 so I'm pretty small. Two years ago I got down to 108
Ok, lets go over a few things..
calorie dense foods are not "unhealthy." You really need to rethink how you are viewing food and stop thinking about it in terms of "good" "bad", etc, and just view it for what it is, which is something that fuels our body.
There is nothing wrong with eating ice cream, bagels, pasta etc, in the context of an overall diet that hits macros/micros/calorie targets for the day.
Yes, you should eat eggs, whole wheat, rice, chicken, fish, vegetables, but there is nothing wrong with throwing in bagels, cookies, ice cream, etc.
when you want to add muscle calories are king. You can bulk on 100% broccoli, chicken, rice, and vegetables (good luck doing that as you are going to be miserable) and you will still gain fat.
This is very important - no matter what foods you eat if you are in a calorie surplus then you are going to gain weight.
Do you follow a structured strength training program, or is it a homemade one?
OP please please listen to this golden advice! I floundered around skinny fat for years, decades, starve binging.
It's only since I learned to bulk and cut have I managed to get a body that i can't take my eyes off (sounds vain I know, but I was mortally embarrassed about my sagginess so I'm entitled!)
Bulk until you can't squeeze into your clothes, then slow slow cut. Hey presto! A new hot body
Also, imagine a life where you can eat 2000/2500 calories a day of good food AND treats, and still have great measurements...... It's a dream.
Not to take over this thread, but I'm really confused about this whole bulking and cutting thing. Is it something I have to do if I want to look good? It seems so complicated and time consuming. Can't I just exercise and eat an amount that maintains the weight I want?
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arabianhorselover wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »jangus9416 wrote: »I do currently strength train and I haven't gotten my body fat since before I started losing weight. I'm 5'5" and 118 so I'm pretty small. Two years ago I got down to 108
Ok, lets go over a few things..
calorie dense foods are not "unhealthy." You really need to rethink how you are viewing food and stop thinking about it in terms of "good" "bad", etc, and just view it for what it is, which is something that fuels our body.
There is nothing wrong with eating ice cream, bagels, pasta etc, in the context of an overall diet that hits macros/micros/calorie targets for the day.
Yes, you should eat eggs, whole wheat, rice, chicken, fish, vegetables, but there is nothing wrong with throwing in bagels, cookies, ice cream, etc.
when you want to add muscle calories are king. You can bulk on 100% broccoli, chicken, rice, and vegetables (good luck doing that as you are going to be miserable) and you will still gain fat.
This is very important - no matter what foods you eat if you are in a calorie surplus then you are going to gain weight.
Do you follow a structured strength training program, or is it a homemade one?
OP please please listen to this golden advice! I floundered around skinny fat for years, decades, starve binging.
It's only since I learned to bulk and cut have I managed to get a body that i can't take my eyes off (sounds vain I know, but I was mortally embarrassed about my sagginess so I'm entitled!)
Bulk until you can't squeeze into your clothes, then slow slow cut. Hey presto! A new hot body
Also, imagine a life where you can eat 2000/2500 calories a day of good food AND treats, and still have great measurements...... It's a dream.
Not to take over this thread, but I'm really confused about this whole bulking and cutting thing. Is it something I have to do if I want to look good? It seems so complicated and time consuming. Can't I just exercise and eat an amount that maintains the weight I want?
Are you happy with the way you look?
Are you meeting your standards of performance at the gym?
If the answer is yes to both- then no- you don't have to.
But if the answer is no to one or the other- or you think you could have improvement in the either area- a bulk/cut cycle may or- or a recomp (which is slow).0 -
I've always done more of a recomp. It is slow, but it is how I like it.0
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I have very similar physique to yours, as well as goal and worries! How funny. My body fat is approx 18% now. I think I want to drop some more fat first then start gaining weight... now I am just more conscious about my protein intake and try to use some weights in my bodyweight workouts. Let the mirror be the judge! My whole body is much better defined, a bit more muscles would be nice but don't want too much. Pls keep us posted with your progress!!!0
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jangus9416 wrote: »Okay so getting ripped and bulking are two different things. I'm not really sure what I want in that case; just some definition in my shoulders and abs, and for my thighs to be more toned. Why do I need to up my calories? Is it not possible to gain muscle at a deficit? My understanding is you will lose fat and gain muscle if you're at a deficit but still properly feuling your body. I'm probably wrong, I just need some clarification.
Hi - I think you can build muscle on a calorie deficit. I'm on 1200 cals a day (BMR 1771) and aim for 90g protein a day, moderate fat intake from healthy sources and half the sugar that MFP tells me I can have!
I got personal trainer to help with a plan and technique - I now lift weights two to three times a week and in the first few months changed body composition to increase muscle by 14lbs and reduce fat by 14lbs too. Also lost small mount of total body weight (about 7-10lbs) but was really concentrating on building muscle and upping my BMR first. I have much more tone and definition in arms, shoulders, chest and calves.
Not doing much cardio due to injury so that's my current personal challenge!
Good luck 0 -
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I've toned up a lot by doing P90X, PiYo, and now P90X3. Maybe you could try one of these programs and get plenty of protein in your diet!0
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Frankie_Hew wrote: »jangus9416 wrote: »Okay so getting ripped and bulking are two different things. I'm not really sure what I want in that case; just some definition in my shoulders and abs, and for my thighs to be more toned. Why do I need to up my calories? Is it not possible to gain muscle at a deficit? My understanding is you will lose fat and gain muscle if you're at a deficit but still properly feuling your body. I'm probably wrong, I just need some clarification.
Hi - I think you can build muscle on a calorie deficit. I'm on 1200 cals a day (BMR 1771) and aim for 90g protein a day, moderate fat intake from healthy sources and half the sugar that MFP tells me I can have!
I got personal trainer to help with a plan and technique - I now lift weights two to three times a week and in the first few months changed body composition to increase muscle by 14lbs and reduce fat by 14lbs too. Also lost small mount of total body weight (about 7-10lbs) but was really concentrating on building muscle and upping my BMR first. I have much more tone and definition in arms, shoulders, chest and calves.
Not doing much cardio due to injury so that's my current personal challenge!
Good luck
It's an illusion, what muscle tone you have is being revealed by your fat loss.
Careful though, on such low calories your at risk of losing muscle.
Muscle is built for a little while for newbies, prob not on such a deficit. Otherwise it's only built on an excess of calories, sufficient protein and a progressive lifting routine.
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Just jumping in here a few days late. I was close to where you are: 5'6", 114 lbs, size 0 before I started bulking. I've gone through two bulk/recomp (I refuse to actually cut) cycles and am currently 127 lbs, size 2, and look a million times better. Just eat at a small surplus, lift heavy, and stick with it.0
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Frankie_Hew wrote: »jangus9416 wrote: »Okay so getting ripped and bulking are two different things. I'm not really sure what I want in that case; just some definition in my shoulders and abs, and for my thighs to be more toned. Why do I need to up my calories? Is it not possible to gain muscle at a deficit? My understanding is you will lose fat and gain muscle if you're at a deficit but still properly feuling your body. I'm probably wrong, I just need some clarification.
Hi - I think you can build muscle on a calorie deficit. I'm on 1200 cals a day (BMR 1771) and aim for 90g protein a day, moderate fat intake from healthy sources and half the sugar that MFP tells me I can have!
I got personal trainer to help with a plan and technique - I now lift weights two to three times a week and in the first few months changed body composition to increase muscle by 14lbs and reduce fat by 14lbs too. Also lost small mount of total body weight (about 7-10lbs) but was really concentrating on building muscle and upping my BMR first. I have much more tone and definition in arms, shoulders, chest and calves.
Not doing much cardio due to injury so that's my current personal challenge!
Good luck
Only in certain circumstances and it's not a considerable amount either. You're not building muscle on 1200 calories a day.
pffffff of course she is, building muscle is easy and anyone can do it…just lift some weights and eat some foods...0 -
ok so on the whole bulk/cut thing. I want to go back to working out after about 4 years of doing nothing as far as exercising goes. I'm the heaviest I have ever been. 5.5' 166.5 lbs. should I do cardio and go down to 140/145 first and then start lifting or just go right into lifting? Advice will be greatly appreciated 0
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ok so on the whole bulk/cut thing. I want to go back to working out after about 4 years of doing nothing as far as exercising goes. I'm the heaviest I have ever been. 5.5' 166.5 lbs. should I do cardio and go down to 140/145 first and then start lifting or just go right into lifting? Advice will be greatly appreciated
Eat in a deficit, list heavy now, and do cardio on off days...0 -
should I do cardio and go down to 140/145 first and then start lifting or just go right into lifting? Advice will be greatly appreciated
I agree with NDJ. Only thing to add is to make sure are getting enough protein to keep the muscle you currently have. Enough being in the 25% daily calories range. It also helps to keep track of measurements and body fat % to get you through those weeks when the scale doesn't move but progress is still being made.0 -
So if my body fat is already down to 18.5% ish, better to drop a bit more with cardio THEN start building muscles? Not sure what my goal body fat should be...0
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Def following this. My goal at the moment is loosing fat and gaining muscle so it doesn't go hand in hand completely. So for now my priority is to loose fat and weight and get to a healthy BMI/BFP. But def want to follow this for when it's time to gain muscle.0
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jangus9416 wrote: »I do currently strength train and I haven't gotten my body fat since before I started losing weight. I'm 5'5" and 118 so I'm pretty small. Two years ago I got down to 108
How long have you been strength training for and what is your current routine?
FWIW, you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time - its called recomping - its slower than bulking - but assuming you are on a good resistance training routine and have a good macro mix, it is possible.
It may even be possible to gain muscle on a deficit, but this is more likely if you are a newb to lifting. Things like genetics, leanness, size of deficit, training, how long you have been training for, gender, all come into play. These come into play for recomp and bulking (well, except the deficit part) - but are even more a factor in whether you can gain muscle on a deficit. Lean bulks are common as you are much more likely to gain muscle (lean bulk = small deficit and so you minimize fat gains) on a surplus than on a deficit.0 -
Because they lost a layer of fat that covered the muscles they already had.....Insanity is pure cardio, no one can build muscle with that.....hnovak0103 wrote: »I started doing Insanity 5 weeks ago and it is giving me great muscle definition without gaining weight. I eat 1500 cal a day. I think its a great program because it builds muscle and is a cardio workout but no equipment is need.
My college aged daughter and her friends did the insanity program and they were ripped at the end. so much muscle definition that was not there before. Its was insane to watch them.
People new to lifting could possibly build some muscle as with anything providing new stimulus - but it would be minimal and the law of diminishing return would apply - and probably to a large/quick extent. People seeing muscle doing this type of workout are 1) seeing the muscle already there (as you say) and 2) the muscle increasing in size due to water (among other things) retention in the muscle due to working out.0 -
arabianhorselover wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »jangus9416 wrote: »I do currently strength train and I haven't gotten my body fat since before I started losing weight. I'm 5'5" and 118 so I'm pretty small. Two years ago I got down to 108
Ok, lets go over a few things..
calorie dense foods are not "unhealthy." You really need to rethink how you are viewing food and stop thinking about it in terms of "good" "bad", etc, and just view it for what it is, which is something that fuels our body.
There is nothing wrong with eating ice cream, bagels, pasta etc, in the context of an overall diet that hits macros/micros/calorie targets for the day.
Yes, you should eat eggs, whole wheat, rice, chicken, fish, vegetables, but there is nothing wrong with throwing in bagels, cookies, ice cream, etc.
when you want to add muscle calories are king. You can bulk on 100% broccoli, chicken, rice, and vegetables (good luck doing that as you are going to be miserable) and you will still gain fat.
This is very important - no matter what foods you eat if you are in a calorie surplus then you are going to gain weight.
Do you follow a structured strength training program, or is it a homemade one?
OP please please listen to this golden advice! I floundered around skinny fat for years, decades, starve binging.
It's only since I learned to bulk and cut have I managed to get a body that i can't take my eyes off (sounds vain I know, but I was mortally embarrassed about my sagginess so I'm entitled!)
Bulk until you can't squeeze into your clothes, then slow slow cut. Hey presto! A new hot body
Also, imagine a life where you can eat 2000/2500 calories a day of good food AND treats, and still have great measurements...... It's a dream.
Not to take over this thread, but I'm really confused about this whole bulking and cutting thing. Is it something I have to do if I want to look good? It seems so complicated and time consuming. Can't I just exercise and eat an amount that maintains the weight I want?
Absolutely. If you want to get leaner but not necessarily lose weight (ie get more muscle) and are not impatient, then you can recomp. It depends on your goals.0 -
LacednLace wrote: »Def following this. My goal at the moment is loosing fat and gaining muscle so it doesn't go hand in hand completely. So for now my priority is to loose fat and weight and get to a healthy BMI/BFP. But def want to follow this for when it's time to gain muscle.
Do you do some sort of resistance training now? If so, does it bake in progressive overload (and have a rep range of between say 5 - 15)?0 -
Yoyo_Fitness wrote: »So if my body fat is already down to 18.5% ish, better to drop a bit more with cardio THEN start building muscles? Not sure what my goal body fat should be...
If you lose weight without resistance training you are much more likely to lose LBM/muscle. Even if you do not want to gain any significant muscle, it is generally a good idea to resistance train (plus it has other benefits), particularly if on a deficit.0 -
Frankie_Hew wrote: »jangus9416 wrote: »Okay so getting ripped and bulking are two different things. I'm not really sure what I want in that case; just some definition in my shoulders and abs, and for my thighs to be more toned. Why do I need to up my calories? Is it not possible to gain muscle at a deficit? My understanding is you will lose fat and gain muscle if you're at a deficit but still properly feuling your body. I'm probably wrong, I just need some clarification.
Hi - I think you can build muscle on a calorie deficit. I'm on 1200 cals a day (BMR 1771) and aim for 90g protein a day, moderate fat intake from healthy sources and half the sugar that MFP tells me I can have!
I got personal trainer to help with a plan and technique - I now lift weights two to three times a week and in the first few months changed body composition to increase muscle by 14lbs and reduce fat by 14lbs too. Also lost small mount of total body weight (about 7-10lbs) but was really concentrating on building muscle and upping my BMR first. I have much more tone and definition in arms, shoulders, chest and calves.
Not doing much cardio due to injury so that's my current personal challenge!
Good luck
No offense, but you did not gain 14lb of muscle. Also, how does that math work? Increased muscle by 14lb, lost fat by 14lb, lost weight (7 - 10lb)? How are you figuring that you gained that amount of muscle?
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