Low sugar, low carb, low wheat, vegan diet..is this possible?
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kamakazeekim wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »Op - As already pointed out...it will be really really difficult to do a plant based diet that is low carb and still get all your basic nutrients. Make sure you are taking a multivitamin/mineral supplement! You should also have your doctor periodically check your blood work to make sure you are staying healthy.
Thanks! Yes I take vitamin's daily. I appreciate the info0 -
"Nope, sugar is sugar...your body cannot tell the difference between refined sugar and natural sugar found in fruit. "
What study has shown that fruitis recognised in the same way as refined sugar? I don't mean sugar separted from fruit I mean only whole fresh fruits. From what I was aware of it is okay to eat lots of fruit and veg becaus eof the fibre and antioxidents.
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michaelkipp wrote: »Thanks everyone. I have been vegan for 4 years now. And by cheating I mean VERY rarely. I have heard so many things about how bad wheat is for you and carbs. I know that there is no vegan Atkins plan. I am just now starting here and logging my food....so I can just look at that. I didn't mean to ruffle feathers on the cheating comment, just trying to be 100% honest.
Just another option if you would like, you can look up the documentary "Forks over knives" if you are really trying to stay vegan. Its on netflix. It sounds like that might be a good eating plan for you. it does include carbs, but it explains why on that particular eating plan carbs are ok. you have to stick to one form of diet/lifestyle, and not combine them all. they all work in different ways. there is a lot of information out there and a lot of it contradicts each other. you just have to choose what is best for you.
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tawnyanmorgan wrote: »michaelkipp wrote: »Just another option if you would like, you can look up the documentary "Forks over knives" if you are really trying to stay vegan. Its on netflix.
Seen it several times, love it! Thanks0 -
I find my own diet restrictive. You can hit your macros on low carb veggies alone, but, you have to be seriously dedicated to kale. I love salad, eat it every day for lunch. But, 3c of spinach is far, far different ftom 3 lbs of it.0
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michaelkipp wrote: »Thanks everyone. I have been vegan for 4 years now. And by cheating I mean VERY rarely. I have heard so many things about how bad wheat is for you and carbs. I know that there is no vegan Atkins plan. I am just now starting here and logging my food....so I can just look at that. I didn't mean to ruffle feathers on the cheating comment, just trying to be 100% honest.
I don't think wheat is bad for most people, and carbs is a varied category, but I don't think you will find any reputable nutrition scientist who claims that carbs in general (or sugars and starches in general) are bad for you. (Of course, then we get into who's reputable, I suppose.) Some people find it easier to lose weight on a low carb diet, as they are less hungry or just find such diets more sustainable for them. (My guess is that most such people are not vegans.)
However, if you want to try limiting sugar (perhaps mostly added sugar?) and wheat and see how that makes you feel, that would be a much easier step than actually going low carb, and leave you a lot more variety (like legumes and various other starchy veg sources, like quinoa and rice) for protein than you otherwise have. I think there's something to be said for not overrestricting your diet, as it's easy to miss something that might be important--for example, vegetable proteins require a broader set of sources than animal-based proteins because they are usually not complete proteins.
So maybe try easing into it by just cutting out wheat and added sugars?
I don't actually think there's any need to do this, but added sugar (or even fruit) doesn't really contribute protein, and there are plenty of carb sources of protein that are as good or better than wheat, so that would not be nearly so hard.
You do get some protein from green veggies, but the amount you have to eat to get any substantial amount plus the need to make sure you get the complete proteins in your diet as a whole makes me think you'd be better off not trying to limit yourself to that, nuts and seeds, and tofu, unless there's some reason besides suspicion of carbs.0 -
I'm sorry but this always comes to mind when I see statements like this from vegans.michaelkipp wrote: »(although I sometimes cheat with eggs, cheese and mayo but I really try not too)
I travel a lot and sometimes, I have the choice of no food or having something available. I do the best I can to commit every day to not using or eating any animal products. But, like everyone else, I am human. Sometimes I fail. But I am honest about it and I do not pretend to be something I am not.
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janejellyroll wrote: »michaelkipp wrote: »I know that the high protein veggies all have some carbs in them but if I am eliminating wheat...those are the bad processed carbs. I think it will be ok.....no?
Can you live healthily without wheat? Absolutely.
Is there a reason to eliminate it unless you have a sensitivity? No.
There's also no reason to NOT eliminate it, if someone really wants to.
The OP asked a pretty specific question - how about the community help him answer it, instead of trying to evangelize him over to some other way of eating?
Well totally eliminating wheat for a vegan can be problematic because a great many commercially available vegan protein sources contain gluten. It also takes another great source of vegan protein -- seitan -- off the menu.
If he's just going LOW wheat? How low? Just eliminating bread? Does he still want to eat seitan? Is some vital wheat gluten used in the making of Gardein products okay?
If he's looking to eliminate wheat entirely, then the issue restricts his protein choices further.
So it's sort of germane to the discussion to flesh out the issue a bit.
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Wheat isn't harmful unless you're intolerent.
However it is also very easy to avoid if you need to. It doesn't really limit your protein as seitan isn't a main protein source for most vegans, just an occastioal meat substitute. Meat substitutes aren't really very good for you (better than real meat though obiously aha).
I also really want to stress, not to stress about protein as long as you're eating adequate calories you don't need to worry. Although is you are restricting calories you may need to up your legume intake. However if you want to make a healthy lifestyle change I would reccommend not cutting anything out or restricting calories. If you eat a mostly wholefoods diet and eat when you're hungry stop when satisfied you will naturally shed the extra pounds.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Well totally eliminating wheat for a vegan can be problematic because a great many commercially available vegan protein sources contain gluten. It also takes another great source of vegan protein -- seitan -- off the menu.
If he's just going LOW wheat? How low? Just eliminating bread? Does he still want to eat seitan? Is some vital wheat gluten used in the making of Gardein products okay?
If he's looking to eliminate wheat entirely, then the issue restricts his protein choices further.
So it's sort of germane to the discussion to flesh out the issue a bit.
I have been reading Grain Brain and I was planning to be as wheat free as possible but still be healthy. That is why I was asking. And I have been told that sugar and carbs are the reason that I have not lost weight in years. I just thought I would get more opinions on the subject. Thanks!
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sorbus33rowan wrote: »I also really want to stress, not to stress about protein as long as you're eating adequate calories you don't need to worry. Although is you are restricting calories you may need to up your legume intake.
Legumes have carbs attached, which is on the OP's limiting list. Also he's trying to lose weight. He won't do that by messing around with his macros and whole foods. It has to be done by tracking his intake.0 -
michaelkipp wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Well totally eliminating wheat for a vegan can be problematic because a great many commercially available vegan protein sources contain gluten. It also takes another great source of vegan protein -- seitan -- off the menu.
If he's just going LOW wheat? How low? Just eliminating bread? Does he still want to eat seitan? Is some vital wheat gluten used in the making of Gardein products okay?
If he's looking to eliminate wheat entirely, then the issue restricts his protein choices further.
So it's sort of germane to the discussion to flesh out the issue a bit.
I have been reading Grain Brain and I was planning to be as wheat free as possible but still be healthy. That is why I was asking. And I have been told that sugar and carbs are the reason that I have not lost weight in years. I just thought I would get more opinions on the subject. Thanks!
Unless you have an underlying medical condition, carbs and sugar aren't behind your weight problem.
It all comes down to calories.
When I still ate meat, I went on various low carb diet plans to lose weight. Initially, I did drop weight. Then I maintained my weight, but I still weighed a good 30 pounds more than I wanted to weigh. My weight wouldn't budge.
I then got pregnant, had the baby, and nursed that baby. I stayed low carb the whole time. We went through a very stressful period in our lives and I put on a lot of weight. I was still eating low carb.
The moral of my story?
It was never carbs, it was just too much food, too many calories. If I had been calorie counting when I initially went low carb, I would have been able to shift my weight below that point where I was maintaining and holding onto that last 30 pounds.
If you still WANT to go low carb, that's fine. But you don't HAVE to in order to lose weight. You just need to eat at a calorie deficit.
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If you can embrace eating fat, your diet aspirations are possible. Natural fats have gotten a bad rap and lumped in with trans. But, the theory that natural fats cause heart disease has not held up to scientific rigor, over the years. I would introduce nut butters, avocado, and coconut oil to your diet. You need fat to properly absorb fat soluble vitamins E, D, A, and K. And if you are going to cheat, cheat with grass-fed butter and bone broth too! Bone meal is used to fertilize organic vegetables anyway, so you might as well drink bone broth as it is amazing for joint and immune health not to mention a great source of complete protein.0
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Since you said you love Forks over Knives, OP:
http://www.forksoverknives.com/the-smoke-and-mirrors-behind-wheat-belly-and-grain-brain/0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »michaelkipp wrote: »I know that the high protein veggies all have some carbs in them but if I am eliminating wheat...those are the bad processed carbs. I think it will be ok.....no?
Can you live healthily without wheat? Absolutely.
Is there a reason to eliminate it unless you have a sensitivity? No.
There's also no reason to NOT eliminate it, if someone really wants to.
The OP asked a pretty specific question - how about the community help him answer it, instead of trying to evangelize him over to some other way of eating?
If someone indicates they are wanting to eliminate it due to recent scare literature, I don't think it is out of line to point out that there is less basis for the claims in this literature than some think.0 -
sorbus33rowan wrote: »Wheat isn't harmful unless you're intolerent.
However it is also very easy to avoid if you need to. It doesn't really limit your protein as seitan isn't a main protein source for most vegans, just an occastioal meat substitute. Meat substitutes aren't really very good for you (better than real meat though obiously aha).
I also really want to stress, not to stress about protein as long as you're eating adequate calories you don't need to worry. Although is you are restricting calories you may need to up your legume intake. However if you want to make a healthy lifestyle change I would reccommend not cutting anything out or restricting calories. If you eat a mostly wholefoods diet and eat when you're hungry stop when satisfied you will naturally shed the extra pounds.
Wait. What is wrong with meat substitutes?
I, like some others here, GAINED my weight eating to satisfaction on a mostly whole foods diet. Calories still count, even if you are eating mostly whole foods.0 -
Meat subs are often really processed so have lots of salt and gunk. I don't mean tofu and tepeh but more the fake chicken/burgers/cheeses/etc.
Of course the calories still count but I guess it's that for me the food is satisfying because of the fibre. I eat lots of veg and legumes so for me anyway I can eat lots but not worry about getting to many calories.0 -
As a vegetarian you have to work harder than the ordinary guy to make sure you get as much nutrition, variety and balance as possible from what you can eat, not restrict further. What you suggest may possibly be done, but unless you have true medical conditions, it's uneccessarily restrictive, boring, dull, impractical, potentially harmful for your body, definitely for your spirit and social life.
(What's up with all these stupid threads?)I travel a lot and sometimes, I have the choice of no food or having something available. I do the best I can to commit every day to not using or eating any animal products. But, like everyone else, I am human. Sometimes I fail. But I am honest about it and I do not pretend to be something I am not.
This makes me think you are sincere, but maybe having a troubled relationship with food? Maybe you could talk to your doctor about food and eating?0 -
Have
I suppose that's true, except for the part where it's all bound up in fiber. So if your refined sugar was bound up in fiber, then perhaps your body would respond similarly.kamakazeekim wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »Okay:
As for the "cheating", I'm not sure how you can cheat a political stance and lifestyle choice of doing as little harm as possible. You can however cheat a plant based diet which sounds more like what you've got going there. (Sorry it just annoys me when people use the word vegan to descibe their diet when that's really not what it's about). There are plenty pf vegan cheeses, mayos, eggs, cakes, chocolate, sweets, etc. No need to cheat.
Sugar is bad for you but only certain types, aka the refined types. Sugar in fruit and veg is absolutely not something to cut down on.
Unrefind carbs are also bad but the good news is other carbs arent. Fruit, veg, wholegrains, legumes, and other plant food are very healthy. As for protein don't worry about it, you don't need as much as you think (about 55g a day for average men).
For optimum health (and therfore weight loss) stick to a whloefoods plant based diet: this includes nuts, seeds, whole grains, vegtables, fruits, and legumes.
Some good websites include nutrionfacts.org, onegreenplanet, and websites organisations such as viva! and the vegan society.
Nope, sugar is sugar...your body cannot tell the difference between refined sugar and natural sugar found in fruit.
Op - As already pointed out...it will be really really difficult to do a plant based diet that is low carb and still get all your basic nutrients. Make sure you are taking a multivitamin/mineral supplement! You should also have your doctor periodically check your blood work to make sure you are staying healthy.
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OP: google Eco-atkins and see where that leads you. Folks do it!0
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sorbus33rowan wrote: »Meat subs are often really processed so have lots of salt and gunk. I don't mean tofu and tepeh but more the fake chicken/burgers/cheeses/etc.
Of course the calories still count but I guess it's that for me the food is satisfying because of the fibre. I eat lots of veg and legumes so for me anyway I can eat lots but not worry about getting to many calories.
In the context of a balanced diet, sodium isn't really a problem. I'm not sure what "gunk" is, so I can't address that claim. Besides, if one does want or need to control sodium, you can always make seitan at home. That's what I do. It's a lot cheaper and you can control the ingredients.0 -
By gunk I mean additives like colours, flavours, emulsifiers, etc. sorry not to be very clear there. Yes, you're right a bit of sodium is okay just not all the time. I didn't mean seitan was bad just not as nutrient dense as other proteins, by all means enjoy your seitan!0
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sorbus33rowan wrote: »By gunk I mean additives like colours, flavours, emulsifiers, etc. sorry not to be very clear there. Yes, you're right a bit of sodium is okay just not all the time. I didn't mean seitan was bad just not as nutrient dense as other proteins, by all means enjoy your seitan!
What harm are colors, flavors, and emulsifers going to do?
I eat sodium every day. There is nothing wrong with eating sodium every day. Even those who need to reduce or restrict their sodium can have sodium daily -- they just need to monitor their intake. If you make your own seitan, you can completely control the sodium level.
What nutrients do you consider seitan to be deficient in? It's dense in protein and, if eaten as part of a balanced diet, shouldn't block anyone from meeting their additional nutrient needs. Not everything we eat is going to be dense in multiple nutrients. Given how rich in protein seitan is, I don't think this is a drawback for seitan.
This isn't about whether or not I will enjoy my seitan (I will, though, thanks!). This is about whether it is responsible to make vague statements designed to steer people away from certain foods. I have two concerns with this approach. One, people are reading what you say and they may (unnecessarily) limit their diets in response to what you've written. Cutting out sources of food that are good ways to meet protein needs because they're afraid of sodium (unnecessary for most people) or contain "gunk" or are "processed" . . . flash forward and these people may wind up eating a diet that is unnecessarily restricted and have trouble meeting their macro goals.
The other issue is animal advocacy -- the heart of veganism. Foods like seitan and other meat substitutes help people feel fulfilled and and satisfied on a vegan diet. They aren't necessary, but many people enjoy them. These products help people consider a transition to veganism and they make it easier for many to stay vegan. By discouraging people from using these foods, you may be increasing the numbers of animals that are being exploited for food. This should be a concern for every vegan.
The diet we should be encouraging should be one that encourages health, but not so focused on limiting foods that people suffer an overly restricted diet or get discouraged. In the past nine years, I've seen lots of people quit veganism because they got tired of everything that they couldn't have. Or they didn't get enough fat or protein and, as a result, didn't feel good. Many times, these wind up being people who say that veganism "didn't work for them." No kidding. If I thought I had to limit myself to a very low fat diet or eat mostly raw foods or avoid processed foods or didn't have to eat protein, I wouldn't think things were "working" either.
Vegans who want to omit processed foods or limit their sodium because they prefer the way that they feel when they do so, should feel free. I encourage everyone to notice how their food intake impacts their wellbeing. But using vague terms like "gunk" to discourage others . . . I'm just not down with that. What evidence do we have that anything in, say, Gardein is harmful as part of a balanced diet?0 -
sorbus33rowan wrote: »By gunk I mean additives like colours, flavours, emulsifiers, etc. sorry not to be very clear there. Yes, you're right a bit of sodium is okay just not all the time. I didn't mean seitan was bad just not as nutrient dense as other proteins, by all means enjoy your seitan!
I make my own, it contains:
Vital wheat gluten
Cannelini beans
Soy sauce (or braggs liquid aminos)
Olive oil
Vegetable broth
Nutritional yeast
Onion powder
Garlic powder
Smoked paprika....
In fact, I'm making some tonight. For us, it is a big source of our protein, I have it at least once a week, and the kids get it sliced cold in their lunches.
Stop demonizing food.
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Laurend224 wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »By gunk I mean additives like colours, flavours, emulsifiers, etc. sorry not to be very clear there. Yes, you're right a bit of sodium is okay just not all the time. I didn't mean seitan was bad just not as nutrient dense as other proteins, by all means enjoy your seitan!
I make my own, it contains:
Vital wheat gluten
Cannelini beans
Soy sauce (or braggs liquid aminos)
Olive oil
Vegetable broth
Nutritional yeast
Onion powder
Garlic powder
Smoked paprika....
In fact, I'm making some tonight. For us, it is a big source of our protein, I have it at least once a week, and the kids get it sliced cold in their lunches.
Stop demonizing food.
Do you puree the cannelini beans? I've just started doing this and I LOVE the results. The resulting texture is incredible.
Your seitan sounds a lot like mine. And now I am getting hungry.
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janejellyroll wrote: »Laurend224 wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »By gunk I mean additives like colours, flavours, emulsifiers, etc. sorry not to be very clear there. Yes, you're right a bit of sodium is okay just not all the time. I didn't mean seitan was bad just not as nutrient dense as other proteins, by all means enjoy your seitan!
I make my own, it contains:
Vital wheat gluten
Cannelini beans
Soy sauce (or braggs liquid aminos)
Olive oil
Vegetable broth
Nutritional yeast
Onion powder
Garlic powder
Smoked paprika....
In fact, I'm making some tonight. For us, it is a big source of our protein, I have it at least once a week, and the kids get it sliced cold in their lunches.
Stop demonizing food.
Do you puree the cannelini beans? I've just started doing this and I LOVE the results. The resulting texture is incredible.
Your seitan sounds a lot like mine. And now I am getting hungry.
I do! Its the recipe from Vegan on the Cheap. So much easier than boiling it! If I knew how, I would link the website for you. Just google vegan on the cheap seitan loaf.
I always double the recipe, the kids love it.
Derp, you probably use the same recipe.
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Laurend224 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Laurend224 wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »By gunk I mean additives like colours, flavours, emulsifiers, etc. sorry not to be very clear there. Yes, you're right a bit of sodium is okay just not all the time. I didn't mean seitan was bad just not as nutrient dense as other proteins, by all means enjoy your seitan!
I make my own, it contains:
Vital wheat gluten
Cannelini beans
Soy sauce (or braggs liquid aminos)
Olive oil
Vegetable broth
Nutritional yeast
Onion powder
Garlic powder
Smoked paprika....
In fact, I'm making some tonight. For us, it is a big source of our protein, I have it at least once a week, and the kids get it sliced cold in their lunches.
Stop demonizing food.
Do you puree the cannelini beans? I've just started doing this and I LOVE the results. The resulting texture is incredible.
Your seitan sounds a lot like mine. And now I am getting hungry.
I do! Its the recipe from Vegan on the Cheap. So much easier than boiling it! If I knew how, I would link the website for you. Just google vegan on the cheap seitan loaf. I always double the recipe, the kids love it.
Derp, you probably use the same recipe.
I have this cookbook (and love it), but I actually started making it after I saw it in "The Sexy Vegan" cookbook. Great cookbook minds think alike!
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THANKS so much everyone for the help. A LOT to read through here. Maybe I need some re-thinking in some areas...but not the vegan thing! ;-)0
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