Food as a addiction?
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lemurcat12 wrote: »The article that was linked above is worth reading, IMO.
Yes, I saved that link to read in full later.0 -
I lost 75 lbs here on MFP then stress hit, life hit and I'm back to eating the sugary carb crap and I can't stop. I'm up 15 lbs. I know what I need to do, but I just don't have the will power to do it. I'm am stressed to the max and a cake, cookie, donut or candy bar makes me feel all better. I am also a food addict.
This is why people object to the addiction framework. You are claiming that you can't help it and using the supposed "addiction" as an excuse. But not caring enough to want to give up pleasures like food when things are otherwise not going well is really common and has NOTHING to do with addiction. The trick is figuring out how to do that (assuming you really want to).
Claiming that you -- unlike others -- somehow can't be responsible for your choices or simply can't do what others do (or that you did in the past, of course) isn't accurate.
That doesn't mean you should beat yourself up, though--sometimes we just don't care enough for whatever reason. I didn't for years, and I can't say that I would prioritize differently now, necessarily. But the whole issue of caring enough to do it vs. not, why sometimes we can act really logically about food and sometimes we don't is an interesting problem, and one I wish I had an answer to.
But imagine if an alcoholic said "yeah, I know I shouldn't drink, but I'm stressed and it makes me feel better, so not my fault." Absolutely NO ONE would say that gave her a pass. So why do people think that claiming to be an "addict" with food means they can't help it?
Now, unlike being an alcoholic who is actively drinking, I don't actually think it's that terrible or destructive if you happen to gain some weight and don't care enough to be more controlled in your eating now. In a way I think people want to make these excuses because they think they are in the wrong not to care or not to lose weight unless they can somehow give a reason why it's outside their power, and maybe it would be easier if they could just say "in the short term right now I would rather have this cupcake than be thin."
I was fat for years (regained the weight like you for similar reasons, at least that's what I would have said -- the stress and emotional stuff, not "addiction") even though I knew HOW to lose the weight. I just couldn't get myself to do it. Why? I don't know; wish I did.0 -
So much to comment on......Good for you for knowing that it was your coping strategies that led to bringing food back into your life that you know is harmful to you as well as something you are addicted to.
To those who question if sugar is addictive research studies have shows that sugar (especially processed sugar) is as addictive or more addictive that heroin and cocaine....1 example of many....http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2013/10/16/research-shows-cocaine-and-heroin-are-less-addictive-than-oreos/
And addiction to substance is very individual and personal. Not everyone who smokes a cigarette likes it or becomes addicted to it. Not everyone has the same reactions to sugar as others. Not everyone who stresses out turns to food. Not everyone who uses marijuana or alcohol or other substances continue to do so or become addicted and don't want to stop. This is her experience, this is her addiction and just because you don't have the same addiction or the same reaction to sugar as she does does not mean it is not real to her and others.
And to the pseudo-psychiatrists/counselors in the group, the DSM-V (the most recent DSM manual available) does include Binge Eating Disorder and is classified under the category of substance-abuse disorder....which shows that this is an addictive type of disorder. So you are wrong when discussing this.
I'm a clinically licensed therapist and know that food addiction is a physically real occurrence and that this is categorized is the diagnostic community being in the same realm as drug addiction.....per the professionals.
Congrats on knowing what your triggers are and if cutting out certain foods because of addiction, willpower or whatever is what you need then do so and don't listen to the naysayers who don't understand.
From your link
"Laboratory animals’ tendency to consume drugs to excess when they are bored and lonely has pretty clear parallels in human behavior. But unlike rats and monkeys, humans are capable of reason and foresight (even if they do not always exercise those faculties) as well as emotions such as guilt and regret. They also have considerable control over their own environments. If the reinforcing power of drugs is not the only factor in addiction among rats and monkeys, it surely is not a complete explanation for why some people get hooked on these substances while most do not.
Likewise with Oreos. It would be easy to mock Schroeder and Honohan’s discovery that cookies are addictive, especially since they started out knowing that Oreos are “highly palatable to rats” and then concluded, based on the maze experiment and biochemical analysis, that Oreos are highly palatable to rats. "
please provide the many others, esp the ones in humans showing sugar is as or more addictive than cocaine or heroin
So now quacks can get licensed to practice therapy?0 -
Yep, finding something extremely palatable and thus eating it to excess--especially if, like a rat, you aren't reasoning about what you eat--is not at all what addictions are about. That it gets conceptualized as such to justify the claim that cookies are addictive (interestingly quite often the sugary treats seem only to be "addictive" when combined with butter or some tasty fat) is what makes this conversation so annoying.0
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So much to comment on......Good for you for knowing that it was your coping strategies that led to bringing food back into your life that you know is harmful to you as well as something you are addicted to.
To those who question if sugar is addictive research studies have shows that sugar (especially processed sugar) is as addictive or more addictive that heroin and cocaine....1 example of many....http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2013/10/16/research-shows-cocaine-and-heroin-are-less-addictive-than-oreos/
And addiction to substance is very individual and personal. Not everyone who smokes a cigarette likes it or becomes addicted to it. Not everyone has the same reactions to sugar as others. Not everyone who stresses out turns to food. Not everyone who uses marijuana or alcohol or other substances continue to do so or become addicted and don't want to stop. This is her experience, this is her addiction and just because you don't have the same addiction or the same reaction to sugar as she does does not mean it is not real to her and others.
And to the pseudo-psychiatrists/counselors in the group, the DSM-V (the most recent DSM manual available) does include Binge Eating Disorder and is classified under the category of substance-abuse disorder....which shows that this is an addictive type of disorder. So you are wrong when discussing this.
I'm a clinically licensed therapist and know that food addiction is a physically real occurrence and that this is categorized is the diagnostic community being in the same realm as drug addiction.....per the professionals.
Congrats on knowing what your triggers are and if cutting out certain foods because of addiction, willpower or whatever is what you need then do so and don't listen to the naysayers who don't understand.
Other people have already pointed out the problems with this article, but my question still stands: would drinking ketchup relieve sugar cravings the same way a cheesecake would?
By the way, the number of people who actually do have binge eating disorder which may in some ways resemble addiction is only a fraction of those who claim they are fat because they are addicted.
Telling someone "good job" for probably setting themselves up for failure if they do encounter the food somehow instead of encouraging them to figure out the source of the problem is not really helpful.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Yep, finding something extremely palatable and thus eating it to excess--especially if, like a rat, you aren't reasoning about what you eat--is not at all what addictions are about. That it gets conceptualized as such to justify the claim that cookies are addictive (interestingly quite often the sugary treats seem only to be "addictive" when combined with butter or some tasty fat) is what makes this conversation so annoying.
It's doubly annoying because it's presumed that those of us arguing against the addiction model never had similar issues and are being dismissed by the enablers.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »CrazyMermaid1 wrote: »I can't believe how rude and out of touch some of those comments are. The DSM-5 defines binge eating disorder as a psychiatric disorder covered by health insurance. Check it out.
Binge eating =/= "addiction" to food.
Also overeating is not necessarily (or usually) "binge eating."
Yup. I consider myself to be both a former over-eater and binger. I would overeat on all food in general (i.e. too large of a serving, going for a 2nd serving, eating too many meals) but I would also periodically go through multiple large boxes of chocolate and family sized cereal boxes and huge bags of cheese curds in a single sitting. Which I would always view as being something out of the "norm" compared to my normal eating habits, so I did not consider those things to simply be over-eating. I guess for me the eating in a concentrated window of time with a large quantity of food is what I considered binging, and there were poor emotional feelings associated with it. I didn't feel bad about my normal helpings otherwise, I just disliked being fat.0 -
My therapist said I was not a binge eater. Even though in my past life I could get through a loaf of bread, easily, in a day. Mine I think was more automatic or mindless eating.
I think the binge eat is when the person resists for so long the body just sort of takes over and there's a mad rush to cram food in. It is quite irresistible. I am describing it when I haven't lived inside it. I think I saw it once on the subway. A sad anorexic with a box of sugar free gelatin cups in her lap. When I looked away she polished them all off. When I looked back there was an empty box of gelatin treats in her lap. She still looked sad.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »CrazyMermaid1 wrote: »I can't believe how rude and out of touch some of those comments are. The DSM-5 defines binge eating disorder as a psychiatric disorder covered by health insurance. Check it out.
Binge eating =/= "addiction" to food.
Also overeating is not necessarily (or usually) "binge eating."
Yup. I consider myself to be both a former over-eater and binger. I would overeat on all food in general (i.e. too large of a serving, going for a 2nd serving, eating too many meals) but I would also periodically go through multiple large boxes of chocolate and family sized cereal boxes and huge bags of cheese curds in a single sitting. Which I would always view as being something out of the "norm" compared to my normal eating habits, so I did not consider those things to simply be over-eating. I guess for me the eating in a concentrated window of time with a large quantity of food is what I considered binging, and there were poor emotional feelings associated with it. I didn't feel bad about my normal helpings otherwise, I just disliked being fat.
Binge eating is an actual disorder, it has nothing to do with the amount of food within a period of time. It comes with things like immense guilt, hiding, hoarding, loss of control, avoiding social life or certain activities in order to binge, having compulsive thoughts, anxiety, behaviors protective of the binge so it isn't noticed in fear of being encouraged to solve the problem... etc. It has nothing to do with the type of food either. A person diagnosed with the disorder just wants to shove things into their mouth regardless if they like it or not. I'm closely familiar with the situation, and the person who had it would start eating sticks of butter and drinking condiments if that's what he happened to reach for. It's a life destroying disorder. People who overindulge and claim to be binge eaters have no idea how horrible actual binge eating is.0 -
My therapist said I was not a binge eater. Even though in my past life I could get through a loaf of bread, easily, in a day. Mine I think was more automatic or mindless eating.
I think the binge eat is when the person resists for so long the body just sort of takes over and there's a mad rush to cram food in. It is quite irresistible. I am describing it when I haven't lived inside it. I think I saw it once on the subway. A sad anorexic with a box of sugar free gelatin cups in her lap. When I looked away she polished them all off. When I looked back there was an empty box of gelatin treats in her lap. She still looked sad.
I think binge eating and mindless eating probably get confused a lot.
When I was anorexic/bulimic, I would not eat and then binge like crazy and then throw up. Rinse, wash, repeat. It got much worse than this actually.
That binge is nonsensical. You will spend any amount of money, time, resources to get your hands on an incomprehensible amount of food. Literally, a whole pizza + cake + ice cream + anything else you can find. It's an out of body experience, really.
I still wouldn't call it an addiction though. I think that diminishes the psychological nature of such a disorder, while also implying that it can't be controlled, thus rendering a person powerless.
Once I got a handle on my control issues OUTSIDE OF FOOD, the bingeing stopped. Had it been physical in nature, like a heroin addiction, that would not have been the case.0 -
OP-congratulations on the myriad of choices you have made to put your health first! and thank you for joining us here on MFP. I think it's important to recognize your trigger foods-those foods that are really hard to put down once you pick them up. you've probably learned by now, that the forums here have their own "trigger" words and addiction is one of them. hopefully, they don't discourage you from seeking information and support when you need it. best of luck on your journey!0
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My therapist said I was not a binge eater. Even though in my past life I could get through a loaf of bread, easily, in a day. Mine I think was more automatic or mindless eating.
I think the binge eat is when the person resists for so long the body just sort of takes over and there's a mad rush to cram food in. It is quite irresistible. I am describing it when I haven't lived inside it. I think I saw it once on the subway. A sad anorexic with a box of sugar free gelatin cups in her lap. When I looked away she polished them all off. When I looked back there was an empty box of gelatin treats in her lap. She still looked sad.
Once I got a handle on my control issues OUTSIDE OF FOOD, the bingeing stopped. Had it been physical in nature, like a heroin addiction, that would not have been the case.
While I never faced the issues you faced, the part I bolded really resonated with me, because that was key for me as well. A lot of my emotional issues manifested themselves in ways that had nothing to do with food. Food was just one coping mechanism, and a sign of a larger problem.
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CryingInColor wrote: »OP your best bet is to not use the forums here at MFP. I have been a member on a different account for about 4 years and lost 113 pounds. I was extremely active in the forums and got fed up with all of the negativity. I deactivated the other account and started this new one. I still read the forums but obviously do not respond much. I just had to respond to this one because most of the people above are completely wrong.
Anyway, I am not sure if anybody above me has a degree in Science or Psychology and has studied addiction. Well I have so let me tell you that food can in fact be an addiction. Here is a quote from WebMD which is a reliable and credible webpage:
"Like addictive drugs, highly palatable foods trigger feel-good brain chemicals such as Dopamine. Once people experience pleasure associated with increased Dopamine transmission in the brain's reward pathway from eating certain foods, they quickly feel the need to eat again." The same thing happens with cocaine and heroin. Food CAN be an addiction.
Anyway, that's the basics. Feel free to do more research on your own but make sure you check the credibility of the webpage you are using first. I won't return to the forum, it's pointless.
Good luck OP. You got this!
Anytime you do anything pleasurable, dopamine is released. But that doesn't mean you are addicted. Don't get me wrong, people have eating disorders but it doesn't mean food is physically addictive like drugs are. It means, they developed a comfort response to a situation. It's a reaction, not a dependency.
The issue that most people have is blaming sugar but in reality, it's a variety of foods (really anything hyperpalatable) that will give you that happy feeling. For some, it's cupcakes, cookies or ice cream, others it's pizza, chicken or etc... For the OP, it was sweets. But does that mean they are addicted? Probably not. But do they need invention, yes.
OP - Have you tried OA? Meetings online, groups online, groups in your own areas, telephone meetings... they have helped many. Perhaps it's something you can check out and see if it's a good fit for you.
Their is no cost.
Good luck to you 0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »CrazyMermaid1 wrote: »I can't believe how rude and out of touch some of those comments are. The DSM-5 defines binge eating disorder as a psychiatric disorder covered by health insurance. Check it out.
Binge eating =/= "addiction" to food.
Also overeating is not necessarily (or usually) "binge eating."
Yup. I consider myself to be both a former over-eater and binger. I would overeat on all food in general (i.e. too large of a serving, going for a 2nd serving, eating too many meals) but I would also periodically go through multiple large boxes of chocolate and family sized cereal boxes and huge bags of cheese curds in a single sitting. Which I would always view as being something out of the "norm" compared to my normal eating habits, so I did not consider those things to simply be over-eating. I guess for me the eating in a concentrated window of time with a large quantity of food is what I considered binging, and there were poor emotional feelings associated with it. I didn't feel bad about my normal helpings otherwise, I just disliked being fat.
Binge eating is an actual disorder, it has nothing to do with the amount of food within a period of time. It comes with things like immense guilt, hiding, hoarding, loss of control, avoiding social life or certain activities in order to binge, having compulsive thoughts, anxiety, behaviors protective of the binge so it isn't noticed in fear of being encouraged to solve the problem... etc. It has nothing to do with the type of food either. A person diagnosed with the disorder just wants to shove things into their mouth regardless if they like it or not. I'm closely familiar with the situation, and the person who had it would start eating sticks of butter and drinking condiments if that's what he happened to reach for. It's a life destroying disorder. People who overindulge and claim to be binge eaters have no idea how horrible actual binge eating is.
So you're now aware of my mental state at the times this would happen? I simply differentiated from the physical difference. When I over-ate, I was just eating. I didn't really think it was over-eating. When I binged (and I looked it up just now, reading the helpguide.org article about binge eating basically fits my experience to a T) I felt horrible about myself. Just because I chose to eat foods that I considered palatable as opposed to drinking a bottle of mustard and ketchup doesn't mean that it wasn't characteristic of binge behaviour.
From the article:
"... struggle with feelings of guilt, disgust, and depression. They worry about what the compulsive eating will do to their bodies and beat themselves up for their lack of self-control. They desperately want to stop binge eating, but feel like they can't."
Which is exactly how I felt. I felt disgusted with myself. Whether my depression specifically linked back to this as well I'm unsure, as I've struggled with depression since I was at least in 8th grade (although I showed symptoms earlier).
"People with binge eating disorder are embarrassed and ashamed of their eating habits, so they often try to hide their symptoms and eat in secret."
I used to pretty much only eat in my bedroom. I can't tell you how many empty boxes and discarded wrappers I'd accumulate in my room - I literally would not just throw them out in the recycling bag in the kitchen because you would be able to see how many boxes there were.
I did not get diagnosed. So maybe my symptoms weren't strong enough to be classified as a severe disorder, but based on the various symptoms (emotional and physical) I'd say that this was my experience. I also didn't need to get diagnosed clinically with depressed when I was in jr high to know that I was suicidal and depressed, although almost 10 years later I wound up finally going on medication for it.... so not sure if that would mean being diagnosed or not.0 -
Ok, let's assume you're a food addict.
Now what?
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OP-congratulations on the myriad of choices you have made to put your health first! and thank you for joining us here on MFP. I think it's important to recognize your trigger foods-those foods that are really hard to put down once you pick them up. you've probably learned by now, that the forums here have their own "trigger" words and addiction is one of them. hopefully, they don't discourage you from seeking information and support when you need it. best of luck on your journey!
Let me share a little story with you regarding trigger foods.
I always had zero control when it came to brownies. None. I even started on here and mentioned in posts that I was afraid to eat them. My other big trigger food was caramel popcorn, especially with nuts. If I made brownies, I had to taste them fresh out of the oven.
And then they'd haunt me. They'd call to me from the kitchen. And I wouldn't stop eating them until the whole pan was gone.
With caramel popcorn? I wouldn't stop eating it until the whole container was gone.
Now, if I had typed this post out a year ago, I'd have replaced the word "wouldn't" with "couldn't".
I've learned a lot about myself and about portioning and satisfaction with food through losing my first 32 pounds, and felt ready to test myself.
I had given up brownies and caramel popcorn for a good long time, mind. Well, I did eat brownies under the controlled circumstance of a single serving at a local diner.
Anyway, I started with the caramel corn. I bought some, and logged it. When the time came for dessert, I weighed out a portion, sat down, and ate it slowly, piece by piece (instead of shoving handfuls into my mouth).
I was perfectly satisfied. The rest of the bag is still sitting, untouched, in the pantry, ready for when I want some more caramel corn.
Score 1 for me over trigger food.
I was ready for the brownies. I baked up a batch. They smelled as amazing as always while they were cooking. I didn't feel the need to dive into the pan when they came out of the oven. Things were looking good. I logged my brownie, and when dessert time came, I weighed my portion, and ate it.
I was perfectly satisfied.
I had another one. The next night.
The rest of the brownies are in the freezer, waiting for me to get over being sick.
Did conquering my trigger foods come over night? No. I had to give them up for a long time. I had to do some work on myself and learn a lot. But it's possible.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »My therapist said I was not a binge eater. Even though in my past life I could get through a loaf of bread, easily, in a day. Mine I think was more automatic or mindless eating.
I think the binge eat is when the person resists for so long the body just sort of takes over and there's a mad rush to cram food in. It is quite irresistible. I am describing it when I haven't lived inside it. I think I saw it once on the subway. A sad anorexic with a box of sugar free gelatin cups in her lap. When I looked away she polished them all off. When I looked back there was an empty box of gelatin treats in her lap. She still looked sad.
Once I got a handle on my control issues OUTSIDE OF FOOD, the bingeing stopped. Had it been physical in nature, like a heroin addiction, that would not have been the case.
While I never faced the issues you faced, the part I bolded really resonated with me, because that was key for me as well. A lot of my emotional issues manifested themselves in ways that had nothing to do with food. Food was just one coping mechanism, and a sign of a larger problem.
Exactly. I don't know the psychological connection with overeating. But I do know that anorexia/bulimia are control disorders. For anorexics, the ability to control one's diet is the coping method for a life that is (or feels) out of control. Bulimics, on the other hand, practice the art of losing control (bingeing) and then regaining control (purging) - that's why the purge is so empowering. Obsessive compulsive disorders run in my family. I do believe OCDs have something to do with why some people are more prone to eating disorders than others. I also believe that there is a difference between disordered eating and a full-blown eating disorder that requires medical intervention.
I'd be fascinated to learn more about the overeating side of the ED coin. As you say, it's a coping mechanism.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Did conquering my trigger foods come over night? No. I had to give them up for a long time. I had to do some work on myself and learn a lot. But it's possible.
congratulations! I think you're experience is typical, not giving it any discredit! It takes a long time to get to where you ended up, like you said. I think it's possible to consider that some people might not get to where you got or might feel it's too slippery of a slope to go back to their trigger foods. Not impossible. Just not for everyone. If someone makes a decision to give up sugar for health reasons because some foods are difficult to control for them, I applaud them for trying to make a change. Also, more cookies for me. I, too, would like for OP to be able to enjoy a cookie without the guilt or the fear, but that's not my decision.0 -
BeachKitty301 wrote: »Good grief, people. The original poster simply made a candid observation about his own behavior and OWNED it - took responsibility, and did NOT make an excuse. This is my first post here, and I joined to give & receive support, not to be eaten by a school of cyber piranhas.
This site exists to help each other out during a very difficult process. If you've found success in your weight loss journey, maybe you could offer some insight and encouragement instead of insults. Is this how you behave in real life? Thanks, but I won't be sticking around.
I very much agree. While I was reading the post, I understood what he went through. Stress and depression do make you addicted to food, as food can be one way of coping with your emotions. While you're working on smth after a bad episode, you don't want ppl storming at you. I believe everybody comes here for support and new ideas on how to reach your goals.
Anyway, I'm glad you're back on healthy eating and hopefully you reach your health goals soon. Wish you the best.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »My therapist said I was not a binge eater. Even though in my past life I could get through a loaf of bread, easily, in a day. Mine I think was more automatic or mindless eating.
I think the binge eat is when the person resists for so long the body just sort of takes over and there's a mad rush to cram food in. It is quite irresistible. I am describing it when I haven't lived inside it. I think I saw it once on the subway. A sad anorexic with a box of sugar free gelatin cups in her lap. When I looked away she polished them all off. When I looked back there was an empty box of gelatin treats in her lap. She still looked sad.
Once I got a handle on my control issues OUTSIDE OF FOOD, the bingeing stopped. Had it been physical in nature, like a heroin addiction, that would not have been the case.
While I never faced the issues you faced, the part I bolded really resonated with me, because that was key for me as well. A lot of my emotional issues manifested themselves in ways that had nothing to do with food. Food was just one coping mechanism, and a sign of a larger problem.
Exactly. I don't know the psychological connection with overeating. But I do know that anorexia/bulimia are control disorders. For anorexics, the ability to control one's diet is the coping method for a life that is (or feels) out of control. Bulimics, on the other hand, practice the art of losing control (bingeing) and then regaining control (purging) - that's why the purge is so empowering. Obsessive compulsive disorders run in my family. I do believe OCDs have something to do with why some people are more prone to eating disorders than others. I also believe that there is a difference between disordered eating and a full-blown eating disorder that requires medical intervention.
I'd be fascinated to learn more about the overeating side of the ED coin. As you say, it's a coping mechanism.
I would imagine that for just your everyday overeater there are probably a lot of different psychological reasons.
I only know mine. Food was a coping mechanism developed to deal with emotions that sprang up during childhood (distant parents and childhood sexual abuse) because the emotions were too overwhelming to deal with at that age. Eating sort of soothed them and tamped them down. That overstuffed, full feeling felt calming.
I hid from my emotions and was afraid of them for years. They'd make me anxious and felt overwhelming.
Once I realized on the inside that I was no longer a child and that I could cope with what came my way, a lot of things started to fall into place in my life. That realization took me until I was 50 to get to!
I was still left with my bad behavior around food, though. I had no idea about portion size, and had a lot to learn about how much I could eat for my height and age.
My weight was the LAST piece of the puzzle.
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