Why are we in such a hurry
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Cortelli, not to derail the original discussion, but what other reason would someone have for busting there *kitten* in the gym besides the two I gave? And innate means there is no "want" it just is.
Seriously - there is a universe of reasons. Competition with a friend? An important component of one's job / profession? Just enjoy working out? Way to spend quality time with a partner? Primary method of exercise or stress relief? Want to be stronger? Want to be strong enough to enslave humanity? I will stop here, but there all all sorts of reasons for all sorts of different people with all sorts of different needs and wants.
All of those still boil down to 1 of my 2 reasons (besides the enslaving humanity).
Why are you competing with friend to get bigger? Vanity
Why are you choosing to work out with your partner? Vanity
Stress relief? Building muscle doesn't relieve stress, exercise does. We're talking mass here not exercise
Besides athlete, what profession requires being jacked? Strong, yes, healthy, yes, fit, yes. But that's not what we're talking about is it?
what's wrong with vanity? i like looking good...figure most people do. also, i did a bulk and i'm hardly jacked...i did get way stronger though and my coach and I are considering the possibility of getting me into some Oly meets for fun...not a profession, but in order for it to be enjoyable I need to be strong.0 -
so what- what's wrong with some vanity?
All of those still boil down to 1 of my 2 reasons (besides the enslaving humanity).
Why are you competing with friend to get bigger? Vanity
Again- so what- what's wrong with that? and why not? who are you to judge?Why are you choosing to work out with your partner? Vanity
Having a purpose to what you are doing provides comfort. wandering around aimlessly with no training goals CAN be stressful.Stress relief? Building muscle doesn't relieve stress, exercise does. We're talking mass here not exercise
since when did we need an excuse to be jacked?Besides athlete, what profession requires being jacked? Strong, yes, healthy, yes, fit, yes. But that's not what we're talking about is it?
when do we need an excuse to look good?
when do we need YOUR BLESSING- to want to better our bodies?
Are you going to tell me I shouldn't wear my make up too?
please- go ahead- tell me that. I'll wait.0 -
Cortelli, not to derail the original discussion, but what other reason would someone have for busting there *kitten* in the gym besides the two I gave? And innate means there is no "want" it just is.
Seriously - there is a universe of reasons. Competition with a friend? An important component of one's job / profession? Just enjoy working out? Way to spend quality time with a partner? Primary method of exercise or stress relief? Want to be stronger? Want to be strong enough to enslave humanity? I will stop here, but there all all sorts of reasons for all sorts of different people with all sorts of different needs and wants.
All of those still boil down to 1 of my 2 reasons (besides the enslaving humanity).
Why are you competing with friend to get bigger? Vanity
Why are you choosing to work out with your partner? Vanity
Stress relief? Building muscle doesn't relieve stress, exercise does. We're talking mass here not exercise
Besides athlete, what profession requires being jacked? Strong, yes, healthy, yes, fit, yes. But that's not what we're talking about is it?
What is your point here? Is there something wrong with looking good?
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Wow that was interesting glimpse into the human psyche. I was responding to someone in reference to an earlier post where I stated that the the two main reason that people lift to get bigger are vanity and because it feels good to see results from your hard work. I am all about it. You go girl. Yay for vanity. Build those muscles. I never stated, implied, thought, inferred, or hinted that there is anything wrong with that. It was merely a discussion about the reasons for lifting, not judging them. I am as guilty of vanity as anyone else and would never state otherwise.0
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I think your definition of vanity is different than mine.0
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I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the majority of what we all do here: the counting calories, the countless hours in the gym, the macros, the micros, the bulks, cuts, workout programs, heated discussions, etc. usually boils down to one thing; looking better. Of course there are typically a number of other reasons that accompany this, but if we really look at the bare bones of our motivation....0
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You are all over the place in this thread.0
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going with the flow my man0
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Edit - Not even worth it..0
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I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the majority of what we all do here: the counting calories, the countless hours in the gym, the macros, the micros, the bulks, cuts, workout programs, heated discussions, etc. usually boils down to one thing; looking better. Of course there are typically a number of other reasons that accompany this, but if we really look at the bare bones of our motivation....
because looking better has nothing to do with my ability as an athlete- my drive to be better- and stronger- and has nothing to do with my self esteem- has nothing to do with the 400 pound motorcycle I use- the 900 pound horse I handle- or the hours of dancing I do.
Nope- you're correct- purely about how good my *kitten* looks in these pants (which the answer is- it's great- and no I'm not mad)0 -
I hear ya. I get it. I work in at very physically demanding job.Strength is a huge benefit. I love being able to keep up with my little ones, and perform better at the various activities I involve myself in. These are all benefits, but the primary motivation still stems from a desire to look better.0
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I hear ya. I get it. I work in at very physically demanding job.Strength is a huge benefit. I love being able to keep up with my little ones, and perform better at the various activities I involve myself in. These are all benefits, but the motivation still stems from a desire to look better.
Your desire, not everyone's.0 -
I don't expect everyone to be able to look that deeply in the mirror. We're not on a psychology forum here or a post graduate Freudian master class. Keep convincing yourself of whatever you need to keep you going because if you don't, what you see might scare you. We have religion so we can tell our kids that grandma is somewhere wonderful looking down on us, we have aliens and ghosts so we don't feel so alone in the universe, we have Santa and the Easter bunny so we have an excuse to buy stuff, drink beer and eat candy, and we have this forum so we can all feel better about spending so much frickin time worried about the way we look.0
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I don't expect everyone to be able to look that deeply in the mirror. We're not on a psychology forum here or a post graduate Freudian master class. Keep convincing yourself of whatever you need to keep you going because if you don't, what you see might scare you. We have religion so we can tell our kids that grandma is somewhere wonderful looking down on us, we have aliens and ghosts so we don't feel so alone in the universe, we have Santa and the Easter bunny so we have an excuse to buy stuff, drink beer and eat candy, and we have this forum so we can all feel better about spending so much frickin time worried about the way we look.
What are you even talking about?0 -
Ah, I see you're projecting, Shmoony...
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I don't expect everyone to be able to look that deeply in the mirror. We're not on a psychology forum here or a post graduate Freudian master class. Keep convincing yourself of whatever you need to keep you going because if you don't, what you see might scare you. We have religion so we can tell our kids that grandma is somewhere wonderful looking down on us, we have aliens and ghosts so we don't feel so alone in the universe, we have Santa and the Easter bunny so we have an excuse to buy stuff, drink beer and eat candy, and we have this forum so we can all feel better about spending so much frickin time worried about the way we look.
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lucygoesrawr wrote: »Ah, I see you're projecting, Shmoony...
Sure. I said we. That includes me. Doesn't make it any less valid.0 -
I believe I have been misinterpreted. No one (that I can refer to) has recommended doing anything faster than what is healthy and effective. And I never stated that. I would again like to raise the question as to why the typically prescribed advice is the one that requires a series of cycles as opposed to what is typically advised for losing weight which is a consistant lifelong lifestyle of caloric monitoring (or intuition if your lucky enough) to maintain a low body fat percentage while slowly gaining mass. And yes, this can take years, but again, why are we in such a hurry.
I think JoRocka nailed it. If I could guarantee steady recomp results, than I might be willing to wait for a year or so in order to skip the 'fluffy' stage. But since I can't, and moreover I'm new at this and likely to need to do a fair bit of adjustment based on observed results:Please refer to the title of my post
I'm saying it's a waste of time because trying to nail down an exact TDEE calorie number is impossible. You said so yourself- it's a RANGE. So it's LITERALLY an exercise in futility.
Calorie burns are so vast- and there is simply no way anyone can nail down the PRECISE calorie burn and intake the achieve EVER day.
It's LITERALLY a waste of time.
You get it close- you try it out- see your results. If you're getting somewhere- you keep going- you were RIGHT! WIN BULLS-EYE.
If you don't get anywhere- you're wrong- make an adjustment to push you in the right direction.
THAT is why doing a slow recomp for 3 years is just <le sigh> you could LITERALLY be spinning your wheels for months and never know about it. The kind of feed back you need won't be there for months- you'll just waste time.
The bolded is why I'd do bulk/cut cycles instead. I need feedback.
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Well, I'm with the OP. Slow and steady recomp is fine for me. I lift every other day and pretty much eat maintenance. It *is* visibly working. Measurements, photos, increased strength, how clothes fit, comments by the artists I model for, etc. provide lots of feedback. Bulking is fine for folks who get good results with it, but I just don't feel comfortable gaining weight on purpose after all the work and sacrifice I've been through to get rid of the extra fat. If I did that, I would have to later turn back around and cut *again* and I would probably just go bananas at that point since I only have a 200 calorie margin between 1200-cal cutting and my maintenance which is 1400.
Also I threw away all my "fat" clothes.0 -
I don't expect everyone to be able to look that deeply in the mirror. We're not on a psychology forum here or a post graduate Freudian master class. Keep convincing yourself of whatever you need to keep you going because if you don't, what you see might scare you. We have religion so we can tell our kids that grandma is somewhere wonderful looking down on us, we have aliens and ghosts so we don't feel so alone in the universe, we have Santa and the Easter bunny so we have an excuse to buy stuff, drink beer and eat candy, and we have this forum so we can all feel better about spending so much frickin time worried about the way we look.
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OP, noboday said that.
/ thread0 -
Pffffft Laughing out loud.0
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I don't expect everyone to be able to look that deeply in the mirror. We're not on a psychology forum here or a post graduate Freudian master class. Keep convincing yourself of whatever you need to keep you going because if you don't, what you see might scare you. We have religion so we can tell our kids that grandma is somewhere wonderful looking down on us, we have aliens and ghosts so we don't feel so alone in the universe, we have Santa and the Easter bunny so we have an excuse to buy stuff, drink beer and eat candy, and we have this forum so we can all feel better about spending so much frickin time worried about the way we look.
Easter bunny is real.
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I believe I have been misinterpreted. No one (that I can refer to) has recommended doing anything faster than what is healthy and effective. And I never stated that. I would again like to raise the question as to why the typically prescribed advice is the one that requires a series of cycles as opposed to what is typically advised for losing weight which is a consistant lifelong lifestyle of caloric monitoring (or intuition if your lucky enough) to maintain a low body fat percentage while slowly gaining mass. And yes, this can take years, but again, why are we in such a hurry.
because a bulk/cut cycle is more optimal than a slow recomp over three years…
Basically you are saying why fly from LA to Boston when you can drive? Yea, it will take a week driving, but why be in such a hurry? Because flying is more optimal…
other than that is appears that you have no point….0 -
Well, I'm with the OP. Slow and steady recomp is fine for me. I lift every other day and pretty much eat maintenance. It *is* visibly working. Measurements, photos, increased strength, how clothes fit, comments by the artists I model for, etc. provide lots of feedback. Bulking is fine for folks who get good results with it, but I just don't feel comfortable gaining weight on purpose after all the work and sacrifice I've been through to get rid of the extra fat. If I did that, I would have to later turn back around and cut *again* and I would probably just go bananas at that point since I only have a 200 calorie margin between 1200-cal cutting and my maintenance which is 1400.
Also I threw away all my "fat" clothes.
I think your numbers are off..
if you cut at 1200 assuming a one pound per week loss would that not make your maintenance level 1700 calories?0 -
I believe I have been misinterpreted. No one (that I can refer to) has recommended doing anything faster than what is healthy and effective. And I never stated that. I would again like to raise the question as to why the typically prescribed advice is the one that requires a series of cycles as opposed to what is typically advised for losing weight which is a consistant lifelong lifestyle of caloric monitoring (or intuition if your lucky enough) to maintain a low body fat percentage while slowly gaining mass. And yes, this can take years, but again, why are we in such a hurry.
For a cut, you still have to cut...you still eat less than maintenance...nobody is doing a re-comp to lose weight right? And along with that calorie cut, it is generally recommended to learn how to eat appropriately to fuel your activity and goals and to eat in a sustainable way...
I'm not seeing how this is different from someone in a bulk..someone bulking is being told to eat at a moderate calorie surplus to achieve that goal just as someone who is trying to lose weight is instructed to eat at a moderate deficit. Nutritionally speaking, regardless of my weight control goals, I eat a very healthy diet that is sustainable...but when I'm cutting I have a little less room for "junk" vs maintenance vs. bulking.
In RE to doing cycles of bulk and cut, that is simply the most efficient and effective way to actually put on mass for whatever reason a person wants to put on mass. And even in a re-comp, you're only going to put on so much mass...you aren't going to get big doing a re-comp...to get big you have to bulk...and some people want to get big.0 -
who cares... JUST lift and be happy0
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to maintain large muscle mass requires a large caloric intake... see Dwayne Johnson... see Robert Downy Jr. 5 K calorie diets to keep it up once they get it up... work and sweat... make sure your diet is balanced and adequate to the task.. does anything else really matter? OR is the OP just here to attempt to compare his brain pan... there's a game for that.. it's called "Chess"...0
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RavenLibra wrote: »to maintain large muscle mass requires a large caloric intake... see Dwayne Johnson... see Robert Downy Jr. 5 K calorie diets to keep it up once they get it up... work and sweat... make sure your diet is balanced and adequate to the task.. does anything else really matter? OR is the OP just here to attempt to compare his brain pan... there's a game for that.. it's called "Chess"...
Oh boy.......
You do realize Dwayne Johnson isn't natural, right??????0
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