starvation mode
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Btw, I'm not attacking anyone. I am giving my opinion and I did not say I am the only one doing something. We should be supporting each other not trying to put people down. It is a free world and we all have the right to voice our opinion. If anyone thinks I am attacking them, well if you feel like that then I apologise. But please remember there are people out there that we really need to help.
jenncornelsen, give your husband a great hug from me and tell him we need more like him in this world.
People please, enough is enough.0 -
Btw, I'm not attacking anyone. I am giving my opinion and I did not say I am the only one doing something. We should be supporting each other not trying to put people down. It is a free world and we all have the right to voice our opinion. If anyone thinks I am attacking them, well if you feel like that then I apologise. But please remember there are people out there that we really need to help.
jenncornelsen, give your husband a great hug from me and tell him we need more like him in this world.
People please, enough is enough.
Nobody has put anyone down. I'm not sure what you thought was being said, but there have been no statements against people trying to help their own communities in this entire thread.-1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Btw, I'm not attacking anyone. I am giving my opinion and I did not say I am the only one doing something. We should be supporting each other not trying to put people down. It is a free world and we all have the right to voice our opinion. If anyone thinks I am attacking them, well if you feel like that then I apologise. But please remember there are people out there that we really need to help.
jenncornelsen, give your husband a great hug from me and tell him we need more like him in this world.
People please, enough is enough.
Nobody has put anyone down. I'm not sure what you thought was being said, but there have been no statements against people trying to help their own communities in this entire thread.
why did u get flagged?0 -
jenncornelsen wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Btw, I'm not attacking anyone. I am giving my opinion and I did not say I am the only one doing something. We should be supporting each other not trying to put people down. It is a free world and we all have the right to voice our opinion. If anyone thinks I am attacking them, well if you feel like that then I apologise. But please remember there are people out there that we really need to help.
jenncornelsen, give your husband a great hug from me and tell him we need more like him in this world.
People please, enough is enough.
Nobody has put anyone down. I'm not sure what you thought was being said, but there have been no statements against people trying to help their own communities in this entire thread.
why did u get flagged?
My guess is that someone didn't like my statement and didn't understand how moderators feel about abuse of the flag system.0 -
The link you provided indicates adaptive thermogenesis is a natural response to "long term" calorie restriction...which is true...but "starvation mode" as talked about by laymen means "my body is holding onto fat after 1 week of "assumed calorie deficit"
This is actually a better link for adaptive thermogenesis
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3673773/
Yup. This is co-authored by Dr. Rudy Liebel of Columbia University Medical Center. I posted his video concerning this topic before.
Basically what happens is when your body detects lowered leptin levels due to reduced fat levels, it takes steps to try and restore the leptin levels (and thus the fat levels). One of the things it does is increases the efficiency of skeletal muscles by about 20%. This results in a reduction of metabolism of 10-15%. This effect has been seen in the laboratory during the duration of studies over the course of weeks, and has been extrapolated to persist for years.
What it means is that, from your linked paper:Thus, a formerly obese individual will require ~300–400 fewer calories per day to maintain the same body weight and physical activity level as a never-obese individual of the same body weight and composition. Studies of individuals successful at sustaining weight loss indicate that reduced weight maintenance requires long-term lifestyle alterations 9. The necessity for these long-term changes is consistent with the observation that the reduction in twenty four hour energy expenditure (TEE) persists in subjects who have sustained weight loss for extended periods of time (6 months – 7 years) in circumstances of enforced caloric restriction in the biosphere 2 project 13, bariatric surgery 14 and lifestyle modification 15.
This is your "starvation mode" that sometimes shows up if you are counting all your calories and still hitting a plateau. On the Scooby accurate calculator they have a mechanism for compensating for this - the "calibration factor". I think the last time I went through it mine was like 250 calories or so.
End end result is this: If you've gotten yourself obese, in order to lose weight you might have to eat 300-400 fewer calories than otherwise in order to lose weight at your desired rate and/or maintain weight loss.
It's not an excuse for not losing weight - it's recognizing the damage you did to your body by getting obese and you will have to deal with having to make due with less food.
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girlviernes, you mean sometimes increasing your intake slightly can actually help you lose the water you gained?? My scales is showing up 0.4kg if I check maybe mud-morning and then down 0.5kg on that weight that same evening. Sometimes it looks like I have not lost anything at all and I really am sticking to the guidelines of the diet I'm on and slowly increasing my exercise.0
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maillemaker wrote: »
End end result is this: If you've gotten yourself obese, in order to lose weight you might have to eat 300-400 fewer calories than otherwise in order to lose weight at your desired rate and/or maintain weight loss.
It's not an excuse for not losing weight - it's recognizing the damage you did to your body by getting obese and you will have to deal with having to make due with less food.
You're absolutely right, if we get yourself into the situation then we need to get ourselves our of the situation. I'm big because I put the food in my mouth and not anyone else. Its now I'm paying the price for the damage I did to myself.0 -
girlviernes, you mean sometimes increasing your intake slightly can actually help you lose the water you gained?? My scales is showing up 0.4kg if I check maybe mud-morning and then down 0.5kg on that weight that same evening. Sometimes it looks like I have not lost anything at all and I really am sticking to the guidelines of the diet I'm on and slowly increasing my exercise.
Hmm, usually scales go up over the course of the day. You probably should stick to weighing once a day (I prefer to weigh first thing in the morning) and watch the trend over time.
Regarding the increased intake, I have seen it with people who are eating slightly below BMR. It is anecdotal and I'm not sure the mechanism, it could be, for example, increasing kcals decreases stress on the body, so cortisol goes down, or that NEAT (your activity throughout the day) increases with the increase in calories, or that there is metabolic adaptation that is ameliorated. At any rate, if you are consuming below 1200 and not losing I would recommend first tightening up the logging to make sure it is accurate, if so, then bumping up slightly 1300 or so, before I would ever recommend a further decrease. In some cases we did go on to a VLCD, but that was always working with a dietitian.0 -
girlviernes wrote: »Hmm, usually scales go up over the course of the day. You probably should stick to weighing once a day (I prefer to weigh first thing in the morning) and watch the trend over time.
Thanks heaps. I thought I was right about taking my weight first thing but my consultant, who I pay a lot, likes recording the weight during the afternoon. I am on a VLCD and stepping up next week to 1000 for that week then 1200 the next till I can maintain my weight. Will adjust and take your advice.
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In all honesty, until i read through a few forum threads about it, which then made me want to look it up, I thought for years that "starvation mode" was a thing. I want to say that even people in the nutrition and fitness industry are the ones who told me that it was a thing and that I needed to eat at least 3-6 times per day (not realistic in my world). When I think back to all of those times that "I gained so much weight from only eating one meal per day" I have to laugh at myself because while I might have only eaten one meal per day I wasn't counting the six-pack of beer I drank or maybe the whole pizza that was my "one meal".
So it may be annoying to hear people refer to it, but they haven't learned otherwise yet.0 -
If you are so concerned about starving children, feed those that you can feed near you or do something about the problem. I am here helping as best I can. Instead of buying designer handbags, shoes and things you don't need, spend your money on things that can help and stop criticising those that are doing things on the ground. Stop complaining and do something.
Wow. I mean, I don't buy expensive bags or shoes, but like, who are you to tell someone what they should do with their money? Lol.
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lemonsnowdrop wrote: »If you are so concerned about starving children, feed those that you can feed near you or do something about the problem. I am here helping as best I can. Instead of buying designer handbags, shoes and things you don't need, spend your money on things that can help and stop criticising those that are doing things on the ground. Stop complaining and do something.
Wow. I mean, I don't buy expensive bags or shoes, but like, who are you to tell someone what they should do with their money? Lol.
Especially when you have no idea what kind of bags and shoes someone is actually buying.0 -
I buy nice things AND donate, take that!If you are so concerned about starving children, feed those that you can feed near you or do something about the problem. I am here helping as best I can. Instead of buying designer handbags, shoes and things you don't need, spend your money on things that can help and stop criticising those that are doing things on the ground. Stop complaining and do something.
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Some days I feel like I am in starvation mode, does that count?0
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Those commercials that claim a cup of coffee costs 35 cents a day? What kind of crap drinking peasant do they think I am? I'm not drinking any coffee that's less than $4 a cup!!!!!rocknlotsofrolls wrote: »I'm not trying to vent, but I'm getting so tired of this "starvation mode" myth. I wish people would remember those commercials with the starving kids in Africa. Do they look fat? People chiming in on things they don't know to be true really irritates me.
PAHAHAHAHAH!! Utter Swill!0 -
What you experienced is very interesting and I wonder if water weight could be a factor in your weight gain while undereating. Ever since the 5:2 fasting diet came out, I have been wondering if that diet contradicts what we used to be taught --that if you fast, you just slow down your metabolism because the body thinks it is being starved and wants to ration fat burn for the long haul). If this is so, wouldn't the fasting diets or eating below RMR be counterproductive? May I suggest we stick to this topic and leave the other issues aside and above all, reply to each other with courtesy and kindness and patience. Weight loss and maintenance is hard-- let's all be kind to each other!0
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susanmagoozan wrote: »May I suggest we stick to this topic and leave the other issues aside and above all, reply to each other with courtesy and kindness and patience. Weight loss and maintenance is hard-- let's all be kind to each other!
That is exactly what I was thinking. We all have the right to have our opinion heard and be treated with kindness and respect. We are here to support each other in our weight loss journey. Health is important and as we say back home "Your health is your Wealth".0 -
susanmagoozan wrote: »May I suggest we stick to this topic and leave the other issues aside and above all, reply to each other with courtesy and kindness and patience. Weight loss and maintenance is hard-- let's all be kind to each other!
That is exactly what I was thinking. We all have the right to have our opinion heard and be treated with kindness and respect. We are here to support each other in our weight loss journey. Health is important and as we say back home "Your health is your Wealth".
Says the gal who derailed it to begin with...0 -
susanmagoozan wrote: »What you experienced is very interesting and I wonder if water weight could be a factor in your weight gain while undereating. Ever since the 5:2 fasting diet came out, I have been wondering if that diet contradicts what we used to be taught --that if you fast, you just slow down your metabolism because the body thinks it is being starved and wants to ration fat burn for the long haul). If this is so, wouldn't the fasting diets or eating below RMR be counterproductive? May I suggest we stick to this topic and leave the other issues aside and above all, reply to each other with courtesy and kindness and patience. Weight loss and maintenance is hard-- let's all be kind to each other!
I assume you are talking about my experience? It is right on topic with starvation mode. My experience does not prove that starvation mode is a myth, and apparently that upsets some MFP users?0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »susanmagoozan wrote: »What you experienced is very interesting and I wonder if water weight could be a factor in your weight gain while undereating. Ever since the 5:2 fasting diet came out, I have been wondering if that diet contradicts what we used to be taught --that if you fast, you just slow down your metabolism because the body thinks it is being starved and wants to ration fat burn for the long haul). If this is so, wouldn't the fasting diets or eating below RMR be counterproductive? May I suggest we stick to this topic and leave the other issues aside and above all, reply to each other with courtesy and kindness and patience. Weight loss and maintenance is hard-- let's all be kind to each other!
I assume you are talking about my experience? It is right on topic with starvation mode. My experience does not prove that starvation mode is a myth, and apparently that upsets some MFP users?
No, I think this was about the discussion of starvation in Africa.0 -
geez guys, cool your jets! No, I don't know how many times this exact post has been done, but now that you've brought it to my attention, I'm sorry I posted it. Also, I was only saying that if the starvation mode existed, those poor kids on the commercials wouldn't be so thin and sickly looking. I realize that there are starving kids and adults all over the world, but I never see them in commercials. I agree about the 8 bottles of water a day too that another poster posted.beating a dead horse..do you know how many times this exact post has been done...
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susanmagoozan wrote: »What you experienced is very interesting and I wonder if water weight could be a factor in your weight gain while undereating. Ever since the 5:2 fasting diet came out, I have been wondering if that diet contradicts what we used to be taught --that if you fast, you just slow down your metabolism because the body thinks it is being starved and wants to ration fat burn for the long haul). If this is so, wouldn't the fasting diets or eating below RMR be counterproductive? May I suggest we stick to this topic and leave the other issues aside and above all, reply to each other with courtesy and kindness and patience. Weight loss and maintenance is hard-- let's all be kind to each other!
Fact of the matter is .. Fasting raises your metabolism.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10837292
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24057170 -
TyronnePanaino wrote: »I think people that mention 'starvation mode' are regularly referring to metabolic damage... Just sayin
I think you're right!
Starvation is what happens when your body has used up all it's reserves of tissues(fat, tumors) and is now going after vital organs/tissues (like the heart) to sustain life. Ouch.
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You don't want to see it - so you started an entire thread about it?
Drama.0 -
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midwesterner85 wrote: »
my thought as well.DeguelloTex wrote: »
No, generating energy from nothing is what doesn't hold water.midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »I once thought I could accellerate weight loss by reducing calories further. After gaining weight progressively for 3 weeks, I read something that indicated if one consumes fewer calories than their RMR, they could gain weight. A quick calculation showed my new calorie level was below estimated RMR. So I returned to a higher calorie level (which was above RMR and below BMR) and began to lose again.
I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of hate for sharing my experience, and some will call me a liar. I don't know the scientific reason behind why I started gaining when restricting calories further, but I will not do that again (at least not for more than a day or 2). It set me back and lost time.
if you really gained you were eating more than you thought.
you can eat lower than your RMR and lose weight and it not be unhealthy as long as it's not done for a prolonged period of time...and 3 weeks is not long enough.
That is an easy explanation, but doesn't hold water. I didn't change methods of measuring and logging food. I used a food scale before, during, and after the weight loss.
If I had, at the same time I dropped my calorie limit, stopped weighing food and started "eye-balling" everything... then returned to weighing when I resumed a higher calorie intake, then I could see your point.
CICO equation is math...there are variables but if you are sure of CI than it was your CO part that was off.
I also used a Fitbit both before, during, and after... so no changes to method of measuring calories out either.
I'll repeat: I don't know the scientific reason behind why I started gaining when restricting calories further. But just because I don't understand something does not make it untrue.
There's your answer, and I think he's right- your CO was off. My Fitbit drastically overestimates my burn. There is no true way to know how many calories you're burning. IMO a Fitbit is just a step counter.0 -
I'm about 276 calories a day off from where I "should" be. You've got measurement error in my logging, in the nutritional info, in my UP24, etc., but I think a big chunk of those calories are from the adaptive thermogenesis as a result of my letting myself get so big and then to a more suitable weight range. Maybe I'm wrong about that. Either way, all in all, it's a manageable number. I try to take enough steps to offset those 276 calories and I land pretty much spot on with the calculators. And, really, missing 276 calories off of a projected 3400 or so a day burn would be a relatively small price to pay for my stupidity.maillemaker wrote: »This is your "starvation mode" that sometimes shows up if you are counting all your calories and still hitting a plateau. On the Scooby accurate calculator they have a mechanism for compensating for this - the "calibration factor". I think the last time I went through it mine was like 250 calories or so.
End end result is this: If you've gotten yourself obese, in order to lose weight you might have to eat 300-400 fewer calories than otherwise in order to lose weight at your desired rate and/or maintain weight loss.
It's not an excuse for not losing weight - it's recognizing the damage you did to your body by getting obese and you will have to deal with having to make due with less food.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »susanmagoozan wrote: »What you experienced is very interesting and I wonder if water weight could be a factor in your weight gain while undereating. Ever since the 5:2 fasting diet came out, I have been wondering if that diet contradicts what we used to be taught --that if you fast, you just slow down your metabolism because the body thinks it is being starved and wants to ration fat burn for the long haul). If this is so, wouldn't the fasting diets or eating below RMR be counterproductive? May I suggest we stick to this topic and leave the other issues aside and above all, reply to each other with courtesy and kindness and patience. Weight loss and maintenance is hard-- let's all be kind to each other!
I assume you are talking about my experience? It is right on topic with starvation mode. My experience does not prove that starvation mode is a myth, and apparently that upsets some MFP users?
Your experience doesn't make any sense. To gain 6 pounds in 3 weeks you'd have to have been at about a 1000 calorie surplus daily. At what is around a grown guy's BMR, that would be a sudden drop to a TDEE of less than 800 calories.0 -
http://authoritynutrition.com/starvation-mode/
"This is a natural physiological response, and isn’t really controversial. It is well accepted by scientists, and the technical term for it is “adaptive thermogenesis”"
"Starvation mode is real, but it’s not as powerful as some people think.
It can make weight loss slow down over time, but it won’t cause someone to gain weight despite restricting calories."
un-bunch your panties.
This is what I've always understood it to mean, when I've read about it, and what people I've discussed it with in real life have meant when they've referred to it. It's just a layman's term for adaptive thermogenesis.
People on these boards often take it to mean something else (although people here also almost always assume they are using it incorrectly, and say "starvation mode doesn't exist", when the term does exist and refers to something real).
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