Obesity research-impossible to lose weight long term?
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I found empirical information like this very helpful. I've used this to make better choices. What our bodies are doing reminds me of the "Helium Stick" team exercise.
http://www.theteambuildingactivitiesshop.co.uk/heliumstick.htm
No matter how badly the team wants to drop, the various metabolic processes (members of the team) inadvertently influence a rise. It only takes a few.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.long
http://www.nwcr.ws/
I am focusing on permanent lifestyle change to maintain what I've lost.
Bahahaha!
I absolutely love that exercise. It's a classic, but pure gold in terms of teamwork. ^^
The analogy can be brought even further – in order to succeed, much focus is needed.
And it's not because you know how it works that you will automatically succeed!
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I spent from 16 to 60 between 187 lbs and 200 lbs. Then my wife went to Iraq 8 years ago and I gained 2.5 lbs per month like clockwork for 12 months. A little more after that. I have been up and down since. The fact that most people are not successful losing weight and keeping it off for the rest of their lives makes no difference to me. If I am in good shape for only half of the next 20 years, so what? I will feel good about myself for at least another 10 years. That's better than feeling like a slob for 20 years. My goal is to see my grandkids graduate from college. I want to be able to hunt and fish with them while they are growing up. I won't do that at 240+ lbs, so I better stick with the program.0
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golfbrew_matt wrote: »Of course the article is real. We all see it and experience it every day. I think it is important for everyone to read this too and know what we are up against. I also lost a bunch of weight and gained most of it back despite "doing everything right" and developing better lifestyle and eating habits and logging food and losing at a modest rate. My very real past history and the very real past histories of many people that were tracked over a long period of time in this and other research are very sobering. Looking at my own family members, friends and most other Americans is also sobering. I am going to bust my butt to be one of the few successes but I also know the odds are against long-term success and it won't happen without a solid plan and solid execution, forever.
How were you "doing everything right" and still regained the weight? Not possible absent a medical reason.0 -
What I get out of this is that you have to count calories without cheating, be physically active at least an hour a day and never give up. Those huge American meals have got to be a thing of the past. What I see from the article she was quoting doesn't say that a healthy lifestyle doesn't work it's the people that don't work. They give up and go back to eating their old way. Diet and exercise do work as long as you never stop. Count EVERY calorie that goes in your mouth and stay at your maintenance calorie goal. Just look at the calorie count of fast food sites, it's shocking how, what was it someone here said ?, calorie dense some foods are. We have to face it, we have to give those up. It's tooooo easy to eat a 1200 calorie or more meal.0
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No one should have to lose weight forever. That's ridiculous. Once you get to a specific weight /body composition goal, you choose to either maintain it or not. I'd say maintaining is harder than dieting,and that is where most people have a problem. There is no satisfaction in not changing. No one is congratulated for weighing the same (or fitting in to the same clothes) as they did a year ago.0
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In my mind, we need to look at this and then evaluate what we're doing. If someone's just here to lose weight quickly, then there's a strong chance it will all come back. If someone's genuinely trying to change their lifestyle, they (should) have a higher chance of continued success.
I've tried dieting in the past. I'd lose the weight, revel in compliments, show off in new clothes, etc. Then, I'd become complacent. I'd slowly but surely slip into bad eating habits and let everyday life distract me from exercise. Each time, I'd gain the weight back and even find a few extra pounds to give a home too. The reason I failed was me...plain and simple.
I still worry too much, and I'm working hard to have a healthy relationship with food and a realistic view of my own weight loss and change in lifestyle. It certainly not impossible that I'll fail again, but I plan on doing my best. Instead of just watching the weight creep back in, I'm going to continue logging and be responsible for what I put in my mouth and choosing to exercise rather than lounge on the couch.
In fact, I'm going to tell myself from this point on that I will succeed and be one of those rare success stories. It's realistic if you genuinely give it your best effort, and remain accountable and watchful even after a goal weight is achieved. Besides, it's not so much about weight as being a healthier person overall. Keeping that in mind should help.
And I'm going to do it.0 -
For me, exercise was the critical part of weight loss and long-term maintenance. I lost 50 lbs with a very small dietary deficit, and 30-60 mins/day of exercise (cardio & lighter-weight circuits). At that level of activity, my maintenance calories were on the high side - 2200-2400. I maintained for four years at the highly unlikely number of 124 lbs at 5'7. I hadn't even seen that number since 9th grade, and kept it going easily - hardly logged for the last two years of maintenance. I just ate more quality foods than I did when I was overweight, and I worked out often and hard. (Still occasionally had treats, no question.)
That approach, I think, is what allowed me to even overshoot my original goals. It's not like I started out wanting to hit 124 - I roughly wanted to hit 150 lbs, and that lifestyle just kept the weight loss going until I stabilized at 124 (for years!).
My regain (only partial - 15 lbs) was due to involuntary sedentarism because of injuries + not changing my intake. There's no way I can happily or sustainably just use diet, though - I have a big appetite (always did, even before the med-related weight gain) and I like food, so.0 -
A friend forwarded me this article from CBC news. Has anyone seen this or read the study? Thoughts? Link is here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/obesity-research-confirms-long-term-weight-loss-almost-impossible-1.2663585?utm_content=bufferc02ff&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Obesity research confirms long-term weight loss almost impossible
There's a disturbing truth that is emerging from the science of obesity. After years of study, it's becoming apparent that it's nearly impossible to permanently lose weight.
As incredible as it sounds, that's what the evidence is showing. For psychologist Traci Mann, who has spent 20 years running an eating lab at the University of Minnesota, the evidence is clear. "It couldn't be easier to see," she says. "Long-term weight loss happens to only the smallest minority of people."
We all think we know someone in that rare group. They become the legends — the friend of a friend, the brother-in-law, the neighbour — the ones who really did it.
But if we check back after five or 10 years, there's a good chance they will have put the weight back on. Only about five per cent of people who try to lose weight ultimately succeed, according to the research. Those people are the outliers, but we cling to their stories as proof that losing weight is possible.
"Those kinds of stories really keep the myth alive," says University of Alberta professor Tim Caulfield, who researches and writes about health misconceptions. "You have this confirmation bias going on where people point to these very specific examples as if it's proof. But in fact those are really exceptions."
Our biology taunts us, by making short-term weight loss fairly easy. But the weight creeps back, usually after about a year, and it keeps coming back until the original weight is regained or worse.
This has been tested in randomized controlled trials where people have been separated into groups and given intense exercise and nutrition counselling.
Even in those highly controlled experimental settings, the results show only minor sustained weight loss.
When Traci Mann analyzed all of the randomized control trials on long-term weight loss, she discovered that after two years the average amount lost was only one kilogram, or about two pounds, from the original weight.
Tiptoeing around the truth
So if most scientists know that we can't eat ourselves thin, that the lost weight will ultimately bounce back, why don't they say so?
Tim Caulfield says his fellow obesity academics tend to tiptoe around the truth. "You go to these meetings and you talk to researchers, you get a sense there is almost a political correctness around it, that we don't want this message to get out there," he said.
"You'll be in a room with very knowledgeable individuals, and everyone in the room will know what the data says and still the message doesn't seem to get out."
In part, that's because it's such a harsh message. "You have to be careful about the stigmatizing nature of that kind of image," Caulfield says. "That's one of the reasons why this myth of weight loss lives on."
Health experts are also afraid people will abandon all efforts to exercise and eat a nutritious diet — behaviour that is important for health and longevity — even if it doesn't result in much weight loss.
Traci Mann says the emphasis should be on measuring health, not weight. "You should still eat right, you should still exercise, doing healthy stuff is still healthy," she said. "It just doesn't make you thin."
We are biological machines
But eating right to improve health alone isn't a strong motivator. The research shows that most people are willing to exercise and limit caloric intake if it means they will look better. But if they find out their weight probably won't change much, they tend to lose motivation.
That raises another troubling question. If diets don't result in weight loss, what does? At this point the grim answer seems to be that there is no known cure for obesity, except perhaps surgically shrinking the stomach.
Research suggests bariatric surgery can induce weight loss in the extremely obese, improving health and quality of life at the same time. But most people will still be obese after the surgery. Plus, there are risky side effects, and many will end up gaining some of that weight back.
If you listen closely you will notice that obesity specialists are quietly adjusting the message through a subtle change in language.
These days they're talking about weight maintenance or "weight management" rather than "weight loss."
It's a shift in emphasis that reflects the emerging reality. Just last week the headlines announced the world is fatter than it has ever been, with 2.1 billion people now overweight or obese, based on an analysis published in the online issue of the British medical journal The Lancet.
Researchers are divided about why weight gain seems to be irreversible, probably a combination of biological and social forces. "The fundamental reason," Caulfield says, "is that we are very efficient biological machines. We evolved not to lose weight. We evolved to keep on as much weight as we possibly can."
Lost in all of the noise about dieting and obesity is the difficult concept of prevention, of not putting weight on in the first place.
The Lancet study warned that more than one in five kids in developed countries are now overweight or obese. Statistics Canada says close to a third of Canadian kids under 17 are overweight or obese. And in a world flooded with food, with enormous economic interest in keeping people eating that food, what is required to turn this ship around is daunting.
"An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
Perhaps, though, the emerging scientific reality should also be made clear, so we can navigate this obesogenic world armed with the stark truth — that we are held hostage to our biology, which is adapted to gain weight, an old evolutionary advantage that has become a dangerous metabolic liability.
As to permanent weight loss being impossible...well, I know at least 3 people who've lost well over 50 pounds each and have kept it off for 20+ years. They simply changed their entire lifestyle to include a lot more physical activity and healthier (and less) food choices. They are pretty much different people than before.
I think it is similar to alcoholism or drug addiction and even smoking; the long term success rates is abysmal, but some do succeed. I'm going to focus on those few, and really try to be like them.0 -
The last time I lost this much weight, I kept it off for five years. I gained it back by working too much overtime. I figure that if all I do is keep it off for five years, that is five good years.0
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Almost 10 years out of the morbidly obese/obese/over weight section of the bmi chart here. (well once I hit borderline overweight but was intentional so not counting) Found that article a bit depressing.
It's impractical to log every blt for ever but the great thing about mfp and similar is it teaches you new habits around food, and new attitudes to healthy lifestyles.
Like said above if people learn from the experience, and change their ATTITUDE it's possible to stay a healthy weight. It's the people who treat diets as a way to "fix"their weight who will regain it all plus some.
I had to relearn my entire view of food when I lost weight, I knew nothing. I thought I did but I didn't. I had to change my emotions and feelings about eating.
Were the people in this study in the right place to lose weight? What were their views and feelings before during and after on ALL aspects of their problem? Why did they want to lose to start with? Personally I believe it's more emotional and phycological and much like any therapy if the person is doing it for the wrong reasons it ain't gonna work!
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If being impossible was a deterrent we wouldn't have landed on the moon or invent or done half the stuff humanity has done.
Everything seems impossible until someone does it. If in 5-10 years time you have gained some weight back, is that really a reason to not lose the weight in the first place?
Is 5-10 years at a healthy weight not worth the effort if eventually you gain it back? 5-10 years of being able to run and jump and swim and rock climb and sit in the seats at the movies comfortably not a valid reason to lose the weight, even temporarily?0 -
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MrM27 The perfect article for people who want excuses to not succeed. I'm sure a lot of people here will love it.
Ill go with this. the article is very poor and only the gullible are going to pay it any attention. If they want to provide some well based scientific research, then they should go ahead.
If you do some research into long term success rates, then there was one piece of research showing it was very low, but an investigation shows that nobody actually knows and it could be many times higher. Think I will take my chances at keeping it off as part of my lifestyle change rather than throw a pity party and just give on becayse its impossible.0 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »No one should have to lose weight forever. That's ridiculous. Once you get to a specific weight /body composition goal, you choose to either maintain it or not. I'd say maintaining is harder than dieting,and that is where most people have a problem. There is no satisfaction in not changing. No one is congratulated for weighing the same (or fitting in to the same clothes) as they did a year ago.
The solution is self-efficacy. The satisfaction has to come from within. As long as people continue looking for external acknowledgment of their achievement, they are not internalizing it.
Additionally, it's important to move on and begin to add other areas of focus rather than continuing to have a primary goal as the need to lose weight.0 -
The good news is that all of us chubby people are going to survive the next famine because we've become immune to weight loss. 0
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TimothyFish wrote: »The last time I lost this much weight, I kept it off for five years. I gained it back by working too much overtime. I figure that if all I do is keep it off for five years, that is five good years.
Yes, very similar for me. I lost once and kept it off for 5 years. There are specific reasons I regained and others (relating to not weighing) that I let it go so far. Having lost before and kept it off for some time made it much easier to lose this time, I think, and so far my basic way of eating and active lifestyle feel like I've returned to normal. I think I've learned things from how I gained before (to the extent they will apply), and I hope to avoid those things, and also implement plans so that if I start gaining again I will do something about it sooner. If not, well I still wouldn't consider losing and keeping it off for a while and having to do it again a failure or not worth it vs. simply staying fat and continuing to gain.0 -
Keep logging otherwise bad habits could creep in.
Be careful what is in our cupboards and fridge.
Try and keep moving even if it's walking everyday.
Educate ourselves with our food choices and how to cook them.
We control how we live not the scientists.
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I don't care if the long term success rate is 5%. Five percent is a much fatter part of the curve, no pun intended, than many of the things about me. If 5% of random people can do it, it'll be a gimme for me.0
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SingRunTing wrote: »Someone already mentioned the national weight control registry. They study long term weight maintenance (the average weight maintenance for their members is 5 years). I like to read the articles that they have on how maintainers have maintained.
Here's a summary of their findings:
"There is variety in how NWCR members keep the weight off. Most report continuing to maintain a low calorie, low fat diet and doing high levels of activity.
78% eat breakfast every day.
75% weigh themselves at least once a week.
62% watch less than 10 hours of TV per week.
90% exercise, on average, about 1 hour per day."
Aside from continuing to monitor your diet, I really think that the weighing once a week and exercise has a lot to do with it. You catch it before your weight balloons again and, for me, I naturally eat less when I exercise regularly (don't know why, I just do).
I'm a long term maintainer. 8 years. The NWCR is good news for all of us. People who change their habits and life style can be successful. My weight definitely creeps up by 10 or 15 pounds...it is an ongoing process of watching the scale and watching portion sizes.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »All people die. So I guess we should give up, huh?
Go ahead, use this to have that donut.
After all, you are going to fail.
It's "impossible".
Oh, wait.
Maybe it's just that the majority of people try thousands of bs diets.
This X 6x10^23.0
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