Obesity research-impossible to lose weight long term?
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I found empirical information like this very helpful. I've used this to make better choices. What our bodies are doing reminds me of the "Helium Stick" team exercise.
http://www.theteambuildingactivitiesshop.co.uk/heliumstick.htm
No matter how badly the team wants to drop, the various metabolic processes (members of the team) inadvertently influence a rise. It only takes a few.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.long
http://www.nwcr.ws/
I am focusing on permanent lifestyle change to maintain what I've lost.
Bahahaha!
I absolutely love that exercise. It's a classic, but pure gold in terms of teamwork. ^^
The analogy can be brought even further – in order to succeed, much focus is needed.
And it's not because you know how it works that you will automatically succeed!
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I spent from 16 to 60 between 187 lbs and 200 lbs. Then my wife went to Iraq 8 years ago and I gained 2.5 lbs per month like clockwork for 12 months. A little more after that. I have been up and down since. The fact that most people are not successful losing weight and keeping it off for the rest of their lives makes no difference to me. If I am in good shape for only half of the next 20 years, so what? I will feel good about myself for at least another 10 years. That's better than feeling like a slob for 20 years. My goal is to see my grandkids graduate from college. I want to be able to hunt and fish with them while they are growing up. I won't do that at 240+ lbs, so I better stick with the program.0
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golfbrew_matt wrote: »Of course the article is real. We all see it and experience it every day. I think it is important for everyone to read this too and know what we are up against. I also lost a bunch of weight and gained most of it back despite "doing everything right" and developing better lifestyle and eating habits and logging food and losing at a modest rate. My very real past history and the very real past histories of many people that were tracked over a long period of time in this and other research are very sobering. Looking at my own family members, friends and most other Americans is also sobering. I am going to bust my butt to be one of the few successes but I also know the odds are against long-term success and it won't happen without a solid plan and solid execution, forever.
How were you "doing everything right" and still regained the weight? Not possible absent a medical reason.0 -
What I get out of this is that you have to count calories without cheating, be physically active at least an hour a day and never give up. Those huge American meals have got to be a thing of the past. What I see from the article she was quoting doesn't say that a healthy lifestyle doesn't work it's the people that don't work. They give up and go back to eating their old way. Diet and exercise do work as long as you never stop. Count EVERY calorie that goes in your mouth and stay at your maintenance calorie goal. Just look at the calorie count of fast food sites, it's shocking how, what was it someone here said ?, calorie dense some foods are. We have to face it, we have to give those up. It's tooooo easy to eat a 1200 calorie or more meal.0
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No one should have to lose weight forever. That's ridiculous. Once you get to a specific weight /body composition goal, you choose to either maintain it or not. I'd say maintaining is harder than dieting,and that is where most people have a problem. There is no satisfaction in not changing. No one is congratulated for weighing the same (or fitting in to the same clothes) as they did a year ago.0
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In my mind, we need to look at this and then evaluate what we're doing. If someone's just here to lose weight quickly, then there's a strong chance it will all come back. If someone's genuinely trying to change their lifestyle, they (should) have a higher chance of continued success.
I've tried dieting in the past. I'd lose the weight, revel in compliments, show off in new clothes, etc. Then, I'd become complacent. I'd slowly but surely slip into bad eating habits and let everyday life distract me from exercise. Each time, I'd gain the weight back and even find a few extra pounds to give a home too. The reason I failed was me...plain and simple.
I still worry too much, and I'm working hard to have a healthy relationship with food and a realistic view of my own weight loss and change in lifestyle. It certainly not impossible that I'll fail again, but I plan on doing my best. Instead of just watching the weight creep back in, I'm going to continue logging and be responsible for what I put in my mouth and choosing to exercise rather than lounge on the couch.
In fact, I'm going to tell myself from this point on that I will succeed and be one of those rare success stories. It's realistic if you genuinely give it your best effort, and remain accountable and watchful even after a goal weight is achieved. Besides, it's not so much about weight as being a healthier person overall. Keeping that in mind should help.
And I'm going to do it.0 -
For me, exercise was the critical part of weight loss and long-term maintenance. I lost 50 lbs with a very small dietary deficit, and 30-60 mins/day of exercise (cardio & lighter-weight circuits). At that level of activity, my maintenance calories were on the high side - 2200-2400. I maintained for four years at the highly unlikely number of 124 lbs at 5'7. I hadn't even seen that number since 9th grade, and kept it going easily - hardly logged for the last two years of maintenance. I just ate more quality foods than I did when I was overweight, and I worked out often and hard. (Still occasionally had treats, no question.)
That approach, I think, is what allowed me to even overshoot my original goals. It's not like I started out wanting to hit 124 - I roughly wanted to hit 150 lbs, and that lifestyle just kept the weight loss going until I stabilized at 124 (for years!).
My regain (only partial - 15 lbs) was due to involuntary sedentarism because of injuries + not changing my intake. There's no way I can happily or sustainably just use diet, though - I have a big appetite (always did, even before the med-related weight gain) and I like food, so.0 -
A friend forwarded me this article from CBC news. Has anyone seen this or read the study? Thoughts? Link is here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/obesity-research-confirms-long-term-weight-loss-almost-impossible-1.2663585?utm_content=bufferc02ff&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Obesity research confirms long-term weight loss almost impossible
There's a disturbing truth that is emerging from the science of obesity. After years of study, it's becoming apparent that it's nearly impossible to permanently lose weight.
As incredible as it sounds, that's what the evidence is showing. For psychologist Traci Mann, who has spent 20 years running an eating lab at the University of Minnesota, the evidence is clear. "It couldn't be easier to see," she says. "Long-term weight loss happens to only the smallest minority of people."
We all think we know someone in that rare group. They become the legends — the friend of a friend, the brother-in-law, the neighbour — the ones who really did it.
But if we check back after five or 10 years, there's a good chance they will have put the weight back on. Only about five per cent of people who try to lose weight ultimately succeed, according to the research. Those people are the outliers, but we cling to their stories as proof that losing weight is possible.
"Those kinds of stories really keep the myth alive," says University of Alberta professor Tim Caulfield, who researches and writes about health misconceptions. "You have this confirmation bias going on where people point to these very specific examples as if it's proof. But in fact those are really exceptions."
Our biology taunts us, by making short-term weight loss fairly easy. But the weight creeps back, usually after about a year, and it keeps coming back until the original weight is regained or worse.
This has been tested in randomized controlled trials where people have been separated into groups and given intense exercise and nutrition counselling.
Even in those highly controlled experimental settings, the results show only minor sustained weight loss.
When Traci Mann analyzed all of the randomized control trials on long-term weight loss, she discovered that after two years the average amount lost was only one kilogram, or about two pounds, from the original weight.
Tiptoeing around the truth
So if most scientists know that we can't eat ourselves thin, that the lost weight will ultimately bounce back, why don't they say so?
Tim Caulfield says his fellow obesity academics tend to tiptoe around the truth. "You go to these meetings and you talk to researchers, you get a sense there is almost a political correctness around it, that we don't want this message to get out there," he said.
"You'll be in a room with very knowledgeable individuals, and everyone in the room will know what the data says and still the message doesn't seem to get out."
In part, that's because it's such a harsh message. "You have to be careful about the stigmatizing nature of that kind of image," Caulfield says. "That's one of the reasons why this myth of weight loss lives on."
Health experts are also afraid people will abandon all efforts to exercise and eat a nutritious diet — behaviour that is important for health and longevity — even if it doesn't result in much weight loss.
Traci Mann says the emphasis should be on measuring health, not weight. "You should still eat right, you should still exercise, doing healthy stuff is still healthy," she said. "It just doesn't make you thin."
We are biological machines
But eating right to improve health alone isn't a strong motivator. The research shows that most people are willing to exercise and limit caloric intake if it means they will look better. But if they find out their weight probably won't change much, they tend to lose motivation.
That raises another troubling question. If diets don't result in weight loss, what does? At this point the grim answer seems to be that there is no known cure for obesity, except perhaps surgically shrinking the stomach.
Research suggests bariatric surgery can induce weight loss in the extremely obese, improving health and quality of life at the same time. But most people will still be obese after the surgery. Plus, there are risky side effects, and many will end up gaining some of that weight back.
If you listen closely you will notice that obesity specialists are quietly adjusting the message through a subtle change in language.
These days they're talking about weight maintenance or "weight management" rather than "weight loss."
It's a shift in emphasis that reflects the emerging reality. Just last week the headlines announced the world is fatter than it has ever been, with 2.1 billion people now overweight or obese, based on an analysis published in the online issue of the British medical journal The Lancet.
Researchers are divided about why weight gain seems to be irreversible, probably a combination of biological and social forces. "The fundamental reason," Caulfield says, "is that we are very efficient biological machines. We evolved not to lose weight. We evolved to keep on as much weight as we possibly can."
Lost in all of the noise about dieting and obesity is the difficult concept of prevention, of not putting weight on in the first place.
The Lancet study warned that more than one in five kids in developed countries are now overweight or obese. Statistics Canada says close to a third of Canadian kids under 17 are overweight or obese. And in a world flooded with food, with enormous economic interest in keeping people eating that food, what is required to turn this ship around is daunting.
"An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
Perhaps, though, the emerging scientific reality should also be made clear, so we can navigate this obesogenic world armed with the stark truth — that we are held hostage to our biology, which is adapted to gain weight, an old evolutionary advantage that has become a dangerous metabolic liability.
As to permanent weight loss being impossible...well, I know at least 3 people who've lost well over 50 pounds each and have kept it off for 20+ years. They simply changed their entire lifestyle to include a lot more physical activity and healthier (and less) food choices. They are pretty much different people than before.
I think it is similar to alcoholism or drug addiction and even smoking; the long term success rates is abysmal, but some do succeed. I'm going to focus on those few, and really try to be like them.0 -
The last time I lost this much weight, I kept it off for five years. I gained it back by working too much overtime. I figure that if all I do is keep it off for five years, that is five good years.0
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Almost 10 years out of the morbidly obese/obese/over weight section of the bmi chart here. (well once I hit borderline overweight but was intentional so not counting) Found that article a bit depressing.
It's impractical to log every blt for ever but the great thing about mfp and similar is it teaches you new habits around food, and new attitudes to healthy lifestyles.
Like said above if people learn from the experience, and change their ATTITUDE it's possible to stay a healthy weight. It's the people who treat diets as a way to "fix"their weight who will regain it all plus some.
I had to relearn my entire view of food when I lost weight, I knew nothing. I thought I did but I didn't. I had to change my emotions and feelings about eating.
Were the people in this study in the right place to lose weight? What were their views and feelings before during and after on ALL aspects of their problem? Why did they want to lose to start with? Personally I believe it's more emotional and phycological and much like any therapy if the person is doing it for the wrong reasons it ain't gonna work!
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If being impossible was a deterrent we wouldn't have landed on the moon or invent or done half the stuff humanity has done.
Everything seems impossible until someone does it. If in 5-10 years time you have gained some weight back, is that really a reason to not lose the weight in the first place?
Is 5-10 years at a healthy weight not worth the effort if eventually you gain it back? 5-10 years of being able to run and jump and swim and rock climb and sit in the seats at the movies comfortably not a valid reason to lose the weight, even temporarily?0 -
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MrM27 The perfect article for people who want excuses to not succeed. I'm sure a lot of people here will love it.
Ill go with this. the article is very poor and only the gullible are going to pay it any attention. If they want to provide some well based scientific research, then they should go ahead.
If you do some research into long term success rates, then there was one piece of research showing it was very low, but an investigation shows that nobody actually knows and it could be many times higher. Think I will take my chances at keeping it off as part of my lifestyle change rather than throw a pity party and just give on becayse its impossible.0 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »No one should have to lose weight forever. That's ridiculous. Once you get to a specific weight /body composition goal, you choose to either maintain it or not. I'd say maintaining is harder than dieting,and that is where most people have a problem. There is no satisfaction in not changing. No one is congratulated for weighing the same (or fitting in to the same clothes) as they did a year ago.
The solution is self-efficacy. The satisfaction has to come from within. As long as people continue looking for external acknowledgment of their achievement, they are not internalizing it.
Additionally, it's important to move on and begin to add other areas of focus rather than continuing to have a primary goal as the need to lose weight.0 -
The good news is that all of us chubby people are going to survive the next famine because we've become immune to weight loss. 0
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TimothyFish wrote: »The last time I lost this much weight, I kept it off for five years. I gained it back by working too much overtime. I figure that if all I do is keep it off for five years, that is five good years.
Yes, very similar for me. I lost once and kept it off for 5 years. There are specific reasons I regained and others (relating to not weighing) that I let it go so far. Having lost before and kept it off for some time made it much easier to lose this time, I think, and so far my basic way of eating and active lifestyle feel like I've returned to normal. I think I've learned things from how I gained before (to the extent they will apply), and I hope to avoid those things, and also implement plans so that if I start gaining again I will do something about it sooner. If not, well I still wouldn't consider losing and keeping it off for a while and having to do it again a failure or not worth it vs. simply staying fat and continuing to gain.0 -
Keep logging otherwise bad habits could creep in.
Be careful what is in our cupboards and fridge.
Try and keep moving even if it's walking everyday.
Educate ourselves with our food choices and how to cook them.
We control how we live not the scientists.
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I don't care if the long term success rate is 5%. Five percent is a much fatter part of the curve, no pun intended, than many of the things about me. If 5% of random people can do it, it'll be a gimme for me.0
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SingRunTing wrote: »Someone already mentioned the national weight control registry. They study long term weight maintenance (the average weight maintenance for their members is 5 years). I like to read the articles that they have on how maintainers have maintained.
Here's a summary of their findings:
"There is variety in how NWCR members keep the weight off. Most report continuing to maintain a low calorie, low fat diet and doing high levels of activity.
78% eat breakfast every day.
75% weigh themselves at least once a week.
62% watch less than 10 hours of TV per week.
90% exercise, on average, about 1 hour per day."
Aside from continuing to monitor your diet, I really think that the weighing once a week and exercise has a lot to do with it. You catch it before your weight balloons again and, for me, I naturally eat less when I exercise regularly (don't know why, I just do).
I'm a long term maintainer. 8 years. The NWCR is good news for all of us. People who change their habits and life style can be successful. My weight definitely creeps up by 10 or 15 pounds...it is an ongoing process of watching the scale and watching portion sizes.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »All people die. So I guess we should give up, huh?
Go ahead, use this to have that donut.
After all, you are going to fail.
It's "impossible".
Oh, wait.
Maybe it's just that the majority of people try thousands of bs diets.
This X 6x10^23.0 -
I've read studies like this for a long time and there is one thing to keep in mind. Regardless of what this article claims a study like this CANNOT be highly controlled. Scientific study is all about controls and limiting variables. People are rotten with variables. We aren't genetically similar. We weren't raised the same. Our intelligence and freedom complicate things so much as to make studies like this highly suspect.
Another thing that stood out is the authors use of absolutes. The reason why you don't get scientists saying "this is impossible" is because they don't have evidence for that, because the scientists understand variables and would rather figure out how to limit them then "call it".
Classic misrepresentation of scientific studies to make a story where there isn't one. Not saying that it woulnt turn out to be true, I'm saying the study this author is describing, and ones like it, ask more questions than they answer.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »All people die. So I guess we should give up, huh?
Go ahead, use this to have that donut.
After all, you are going to fail.
It's "impossible".
Oh, wait.
Maybe it's just that the majority of people try thousands of bs diets.
This X 6x10^23.
A Mole of Truth!
....wait...what's the MW of Truth?
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I know a few people who have kept the weight off long term. They eat more nutritionally dense food most of the time and less overall. I've seen all of them eat chips and pizza and burgers, etc. sometimes, but the difference is they have just a few chips or only 1 or 2 slices of pizza and then stop. They don't eat all of everything. The biggest thing is that they are all very active.
I know many more people that have not kept the weight off. Some lost through diet and some with wls. The common issue for them is once the weight was gone, they considered themselves done. They no longer kept their eating in check and stopped exercising. They think exercise is just for hard core athletes and for weight loss.
I'm glad I've discovered a few activities that are not boring and get me out of the house. I was always very active up until my medical issues sidelined me for the last decade and it feels good to be back! (Still a lot to lose but it doesn't even feel like hard work now)0 -
That's why, as frustrating as it is, I'm okay with the weight coming off slowly. I know that I could get all crazy and drop a larger amount of weight fast, but then it wouldn't be a lifestyle change. I have A LOT of weight to lose. If it takes me a couple of years even, that's okay. Because by that time, healthy eating and exercising will be a way of life. I tend to be an all or nothing person and I think that's why I've failed so many times. I'd drastically reduce how much I ate and I'd exercise like crazy. I'd lose some weight and then I'd gain it all back. So this time I'm doing the slow and steady. Also, if I overeat or don't exercise one day, I don't declare myself a failure and stop altogether. I will use this article as motivation, not an excuse.0
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I have to say, I was going to have a lazy day today, but thanks to this thread I'm walking to my appointments today. It's 2.5mi one way. A decent walk there and back!0
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The true meaning of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.0
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This is why I can't think "diet" - and I really can't think too much about "calories". And I definitely have to ditch thinking about "exercise".
What I do have to do is think about how much I want to make my bucket list happen and focus on what I have to do to achieve those goals. Do I need to lose 100+lbs and keep it off - heck yeah! But I know I'll never accomplish that as a goal. Knowing it doesn't motivate me. Finishing a half marathon - and then possibly a triathlon certainly does. I can train (aka exercise) but I have to have a quantifiable goal with a finish line. And then enjoy the benefits that come along with reaching for it as an added bonus rather than a goal themselves.
For me, at least, it's all about emotions, environment, and assumptions. Having a goal of "weight-loss" or "eating healthy" just doesn't work. I'm only at the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the changes that must occur to reach my finish lines, but the two things I know are that it involves way, way more than "dieting" or even "making healthy food choices". And it involves my family, my friends, even my work. It's attitudes about sleeping and time management and what constitutes relaxing / vacationing.
Considering the prevailing American culture regarding dieting, food as a reward/celebration, exercise as a burden or task to do, sleep being for the weak/lazy, etc - it's no wonder people find it hard to keep weight off. It's seen as an ordeal to go through. And I don't know many people who can voluntarily "suffer" for long periods with no end in sight and with friends/family/society encouraging them to "relax" their effort because they've "reached their goal".
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I lost 75 lbs (227-152 at 5'9) using WW online in 07/08 (which is baiscally a calorie counting program with formula to create pionts). I kept it off till 2011 so a long term success. In 2011 I gained 30 lbs in 7 months. Stress eating and I got marriaged. And and after two months I got the brillant idea to stop tracking, weighing myself, and running. I stayed at 180 Till 2014. In the last 15 months I managed to get up to 207.
The reason I regained is that I stopped doing everything. But also I did not regain all my weight and proved I can maintain. I also learned I will need to track forever which is fine.
In 35 days on MFP I have dropped 13 lbs and I am back to running 5 miles a day. I won't be a stat.0 -
yeah, yeah - we all understand that if people don't change habits, the weight comes back on when you go back to the old habits. So this study, poor though it may be - which is not uncommon in this field - just proves that habits are hard to break.
It makes me think more about what we should be doing to prevent these bad habits in children. My kids are not overweight at all. My son (13) is 5"10 and 121#. My daughter is younger so she does not go around spouting her stats so I don't know them - but she is a healthy weight. My son runs track, does travel soccer and used to swim competitively so I have never really monitored what he eats. He does eat vegetables and makes some healthy choices - but since he is on the underweight side and very active - I have not worried about the fact that he goes through a gallon or so of ice cream every week or that he always gets the double burger if that is what he is eating. But these habits could be setting him up for failure when he gets older and the level of growth and physical activity he is accustomed to is no longer a possibility.
I like the idea of treating calorie counting balancing your check book. Perhaps, this should be taught in school. Not everyone needs to balance their checkbook meticulously - not everyone needs to log as meticulously, but the concept makes sense.0 -
IT should be taught in schools starting early so should real money management.wishiwasarunner wrote: »yeah, yeah - we all understand that if people don't change habits, the weight comes back on when you go back to the old habits. So this study, poor though it may be - which is not uncommon in this field - just proves that habits are hard to break.
It makes me think more about what we should be doing to prevent these bad habits in children. My kids are not overweight at all. My son (13) is 5"10 and 121#. My daughter is younger so she does not go around spouting her stats so I don't know them - but she is a healthy weight. My son runs track, does travel soccer and used to swim competitively so I have never really monitored what he eats. He does eat vegetables and makes some healthy choices - but since he is on the underweight side and very active - I have not worried about the fact that he goes through a gallon or so of ice cream every week or that he always gets the double burger if that is what he is eating. But these habits could be setting him up for failure when he gets older and the level of growth and physical activity he is accustomed to is no longer a possibility.
I like the idea of treating calorie counting balancing your check book. Perhaps, this should be taught in school. Not everyone needs to balance their checkbook meticulously - not everyone needs to log as meticulously, but the concept makes sense.
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