Protein World - "How could we possibly be sexist?"
Replies
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Im in sales, and my job is not to make people feel bad about themselves, its to make them feel good about our products and buy them. My job is to convince people that my product filled a need..whether a need they currently have, or had no idea they had until I brought it to their attention. Thats what sales and marketing is all about... nothing personal, just business.
Completely amazed though with how many women have never ever heard of the term beach body, or the phrase beach body ready before this ad though. Like, they really react and act as though this company made it up just now for the purpose of shaming women into feeling like they arent worthy of the beach, when in truth, this term has been around since forever...a common phrase this company is using as part of their marketing strategy because they felt (wrongly I suppose) that women have heard this before and would be able to relate to that desire of wanting to look their best.
Theres a million threads on here, and there will be more as summer gets closer, of people wanting to look as good as they can as the weather changes and the layers of clothes start to peel away...whether their goal is to lose weight or lift and define muscle or whatever. Theres nothing inherently wrong with a person wanting to feel good about how they look, and if they arent quite there yet, summer / the beach is a pretty common motivator.
Im guessing people who have never heard the phrase dont live near a beach and have never been to one before? I dont know..I live in FL. Being beach body ready is a year round thing around these parts.
Beyond that, beachbody is the company that markets P90X and Insanity. Anyone who's been within 20 feet of a tv on a Sunday morning should've heard the name ad nauseum.0 -
rawk_fairy_666 wrote: »I live in the UK and every day it goes above 20 degrees Celsius you will see larger men shirtless, letting it all hang out, no-one blinks an eye. now if a larger woman walked around in a bikini there would be a very different reaction.
I am not saying they should have had two advertising campaigns, they should have had one, non sexist advertising campaign, aimed at both men and women. Is it so hard to advertise something to help lose weight without relying on a woman in a bikini? What about, if you are trying to lose weight and get healthier, this might help? Add in picture of man and woman in sports gear, looking healthy and happy? Is that so hard?
Haha, I'm in Scotland and it only needs to be 10 degrees for those shirts to be off - seems to be quite equal opportunities here though, crop tops and Daisy Dukes also at +10 degrees, regardless of size.
Haven't seen the ads but CEO does sound like an *kitten*.
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If all those exercise videos showed overweight women instead of hot sexy women, I wonder how many sales they would get? It's all about making money, it really is. Same could be said about the Hardees/Carl Jr's commercial with the hot chick eating a big fat cheeseburger. Makes me want to go out and get one because it's like saying, "hey, she can eat that and still be hot" so can I!
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rocknlotsofrolls wrote: »If all those exercise videos showed overweight women instead of hot sexy women, I wonder how many sales they would get? It's all about making money, it really is. Same could be said about the Hardees/Carl Jr's commercial with the hot chick eating a big fat cheeseburger. Makes me want to go out and get one because it's like saying, "hey, she can eat that and still be hot" so can I!
I think Richard Simmons Sweatin' to the Oldies vids showed overweight and very average-looking women (and men) dancing behind him. But Richard Simmons appeal has always been a little mysterious.
And to me the Carl's Jr ads look like it's simulating *kitten* on a burger. Definitely appears to be appealing to male fantasy. As all their ads tend to do.
edit: hmm, mfp censored the (technical) word for the act, but you can probably figure it out.
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Lourdesong wrote: »rocknlotsofrolls wrote: »If all those exercise videos showed overweight women instead of hot sexy women, I wonder how many sales they would get? It's all about making money, it really is. Same could be said about the Hardees/Carl Jr's commercial with the hot chick eating a big fat cheeseburger. Makes me want to go out and get one because it's like saying, "hey, she can eat that and still be hot" so can I!
I think Richard Simmons Sweatin' to the Oldies vids showed overweight and very average-looking women (and men) dancing behind him. But Richard Simmons appeal has always been a little mysterious.
And to me the Carl's Jr ads look like it's simulating *kitten* on a burger. Definitely appears to be appealing to male fantasy. As all their ads tend to do.
edit: hmm, mfp censored the (technical) word for the act, but you can probably figure it out.
yeah, you got a point there! It is a little raunchy, isn't it?0 -
KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.0 -
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You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
Is there an emoticon for *pats head*?0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading0 -
asflatasapancake wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »rocknlotsofrolls wrote: »If all those exercise videos showed overweight women instead of hot sexy women, I wonder how many sales they would get? It's all about making money, it really is. Same could be said about the Hardees/Carl Jr's commercial with the hot chick eating a big fat cheeseburger. Makes me want to go out and get one because it's like saying, "hey, she can eat that and still be hot" so can I!
I think Richard Simmons Sweatin' to the Oldies vids showed overweight and very average-looking women (and men) dancing behind him. But Richard Simmons appeal has always been a little mysterious.
And to me the Carl's Jr ads look like it's simulating HUMPING on a burger. Definitely appears to be appealing to male fantasy. As all their ads tend to do.
edit: hmm, mfp censored the (technical) word for the act, but you can probably figure it out.
There. Fixed it for you.
Hmmm, no, I don't think you did fix it... cuz that's not right, lol
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True, but that's only because my male privilege caused me to take it as a given.DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.0 -
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
OR you don't actually care as much about OP's commonly expressed concern as you do being a Super Cool Tough Guy That's Like, Tired of Words, which hey, carry on, good sir.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
So...you don't think our culture idealizes strong, powerful men as much as slim, youthful women? Because I sure think our collective expectations for men are just as frustrating as the ones we have for women...for men they just tend to be focused a little less on physical-appearance-as-sexual-attractiveness and more on power/money/strength as the key to a man's virility and sexual attractiveness.
It's just as rough out there for men who don't fit into that archetype as it is women who are a long way from fitness models.
If you're criticizing the third-wave jargon, that's fine, but I don't think the principle was too far off.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
So...you don't think our culture idealizes strong, powerful men as much as slim, youthful women? Because I sure think our collective expectations for men are just as frustrating as the ones we have for women...for men they just tend to be focused a little less on physical-appearance-as-sexual-attractiveness and more on power/money/strength as the key to a man's virility and sexual attractiveness.
It's just as rough out there for men who don't fit into that archetype as it is women who are a long way from fitness models.
If you're criticizing the third-wave jargon, that's fine, but I don't think the principle was too far off.
I think the point he was making was: *nelson laugh*0 -
shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
OR you don't actually care as much about OP's commonly expressed concern as you do being a Super Cool Tough Guy That's Like, Tired of Words, which hey, carry on, good sir.
I'm not, like, tired of words. I like words. I am a bit tired, though, of people who profess to be the physical and mental equal of any man and empowered self-sufficient moral agents who wilt in the face of those mean, mean words.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
OR you don't actually care as much about OP's commonly expressed concern as you do being a Super Cool Tough Guy That's Like, Tired of Words, which hey, carry on, good sir.
If you want to find some real patriarchal Male Power Fantasy, look toward the places where women are treated as chattel and have body parts cut off, not where some mean guy says most of his target market is women who appear to like the product. Of course, the problem there is that that would involve actual risk and involve dealing with people who won't be shamed by your labels and who'd just as soon slap you around as respond to you.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
OR you don't actually care as much about OP's commonly expressed concern as you do being a Super Cool Tough Guy That's Like, Tired of Words, which hey, carry on, good sir.
I'm not, like, tired of words. I like words. I am a bit tired, though, of people who profess to be the physical and mental equal of any man and empowered self-sufficient moral agents who wilt in the face of those mean, mean words.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
OR you don't actually care as much about OP's commonly expressed concern as you do being a Super Cool Tough Guy That's Like, Tired of Words, which hey, carry on, good sir.
If you want to find some real patriarchal Male Power Fantasy, look toward the places where women are treated as chattel and have body parts cut off, not where some mean guy says most of his target market is women who appear to like the product. Of course, the problem there is that that would involve actual risk and involve dealing with people who won't be shamed by your labels and who'd just as soon slap you around as respond to you.
WAIT
You mean to tell me things are different/worse in other places???
EVERYONE, THAT'S IT. SHUT IT DOWN. PROBLEMS HERE ARE SOLVED! THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER PLACES ALL ALONG!0 -
shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
OR you don't actually care as much about OP's commonly expressed concern as you do being a Super Cool Tough Guy That's Like, Tired of Words, which hey, carry on, good sir.
I'm not, like, tired of words. I like words. I am a bit tired, though, of people who profess to be the physical and mental equal of any man and empowered self-sufficient moral agents who wilt in the face of those mean, mean words.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
OR you don't actually care as much about OP's commonly expressed concern as you do being a Super Cool Tough Guy That's Like, Tired of Words, which hey, carry on, good sir.
If you want to find some real patriarchal Male Power Fantasy, look toward the places where women are treated as chattel and have body parts cut off, not where some mean guy says most of his target market is women who appear to like the product. Of course, the problem there is that that would involve actual risk and involve dealing with people who won't be shamed by your labels and who'd just as soon slap you around as respond to you.
WAIT
You mean to tell me things are different/worse in other places???
EVERYONE, THAT'S IT. SHUT IT DOWN. PROBLEMS HERE ARE SOLVED! THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER PLACES ALL ALONG!
I think it's really something that the women in the 60s and the suffragettes even earlier should have considered, since they definitely had it good compared to some women in the world. That is the most legitimate reason to accept the status quo, after all!0 -
I agree with your main paragraph. Of course it's rough out there for men, and women, who don't project what's perceived as desirable traits in a mate. That's hardly "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy," though. High school guys are rarely in positions of true power so, of course, it's going to be more a question of at least potential physical superiority at that point. For the most part, they can't provide for someone, so they are more dependent on the less rational (in this day and age) aspects of "superiority" that are still rattling around in the more primitive parts of our brains.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
So...you don't think our culture idealizes strong, powerful men as much as slim, youthful women? Because I sure think our collective expectations for men are just as frustrating as the ones we have for women...for men they just tend to be focused a little less on physical-appearance-as-sexual-attractiveness and more on power/money/strength as the key to a man's virility and sexual attractiveness.
It's just as rough out there for men who don't fit into that archetype as it is women who are a long way from fitness models.
If you're criticizing the third-wave jargon, that's fine, but I don't think the principle was too far off.
And, yeah, mostly it was about the buzzwords and jargon that are almost devoid of content at this point and act mainly as signaling mechanisms to others of the same mindset. If you think about it, it in itself is really not much more than a thinly veiled attempt at shaming.0 -
girlviernes wrote: »shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
OR you don't actually care as much about OP's commonly expressed concern as you do being a Super Cool Tough Guy That's Like, Tired of Words, which hey, carry on, good sir.
I'm not, like, tired of words. I like words. I am a bit tired, though, of people who profess to be the physical and mental equal of any man and empowered self-sufficient moral agents who wilt in the face of those mean, mean words.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
OR you don't actually care as much about OP's commonly expressed concern as you do being a Super Cool Tough Guy That's Like, Tired of Words, which hey, carry on, good sir.
If you want to find some real patriarchal Male Power Fantasy, look toward the places where women are treated as chattel and have body parts cut off, not where some mean guy says most of his target market is women who appear to like the product. Of course, the problem there is that that would involve actual risk and involve dealing with people who won't be shamed by your labels and who'd just as soon slap you around as respond to you.
WAIT
You mean to tell me things are different/worse in other places???
EVERYONE, THAT'S IT. SHUT IT DOWN. PROBLEMS HERE ARE SOLVED! THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER PLACES ALL ALONG!
I think it's really something that the women in the 60s and the suffragettes even earlier should have considered, since they definitely had it good compared to some women in the world. That is the most legitimate reason to accept the status quo, after all!
Ugh! Don't interrupt the guy's thought process. He's simultaneously juggling three distraction tactics:
1) Look! Over There!
2) Be grateful you're not Over There and being slapped around, okay???
3) LOL also who's equal to men? NO ONE duh.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
I agree with your main paragraph. Of course it's rough out there for men, and women, who don't project what's perceived as desirable traits in a mate. That's hardly "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy," though. High school guys are rarely in positions of true power so, of course, it's going to be more a question of at least potential physical superiority at that point. For the most part, they can't provide for someone, so they are more dependent on the less rational (in this day and age) aspects of "superiority" that are still rattling around in the more primitive parts of our brains.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
So...you don't think our culture idealizes strong, powerful men as much as slim, youthful women? Because I sure think our collective expectations for men are just as frustrating as the ones we have for women...for men they just tend to be focused a little less on physical-appearance-as-sexual-attractiveness and more on power/money/strength as the key to a man's virility and sexual attractiveness.
It's just as rough out there for men who don't fit into that archetype as it is women who are a long way from fitness models.
If you're criticizing the third-wave jargon, that's fine, but I don't think the principle was too far off.
And, yeah, mostly it was about the buzzwords and jargon that are almost devoid of content at this point and act mainly as signaling mechanisms to others of the same mindset. If you think about it, it in itself is really not much more than a thinly veiled attempt at shaming.
You mean to say words mean things to people who know their meanings? Well, I never.
I'm glad to know that you're up in arms and totally throwing the conversation off the rails because of the words I chose and not because you disagree with my sympathizing with the OP at all about how unfair it is for men as well as women that there are these rigid standards of masculinity and femininity.0 -
Backing up, I guess I don't understand why it's assumed that ads like the one in question (is your beach body ready?!) are only aimed at women. For example, one of the more famous ads:
0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Backing up, I guess I don't understand why it's assumed that ads like the one in question (is your beach body ready?!) are only aimed at women. For example, one of the more famous ads:
Its not assumed that they're only aimed at women. They've been aimed at men too, we're just talking about this specific instance, which is in no means devalidating any other issues that exist simultaneously.0 -
No, I'm saying it's of the same type of mistake as using "racism" to describe all sorts of things that have nothing to do with "racism" and serve only to dilute the term and make it less effective when applied to actual racism. It's "the boy who cried wolf" syndrome.shrinkingletters wrote: »girlviernes wrote: »shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
OR you don't actually care as much about OP's commonly expressed concern as you do being a Super Cool Tough Guy That's Like, Tired of Words, which hey, carry on, good sir.
I'm not, like, tired of words. I like words. I am a bit tired, though, of people who profess to be the physical and mental equal of any man and empowered self-sufficient moral agents who wilt in the face of those mean, mean words.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
OR you don't actually care as much about OP's commonly expressed concern as you do being a Super Cool Tough Guy That's Like, Tired of Words, which hey, carry on, good sir.
If you want to find some real patriarchal Male Power Fantasy, look toward the places where women are treated as chattel and have body parts cut off, not where some mean guy says most of his target market is women who appear to like the product. Of course, the problem there is that that would involve actual risk and involve dealing with people who won't be shamed by your labels and who'd just as soon slap you around as respond to you.
WAIT
You mean to tell me things are different/worse in other places???
EVERYONE, THAT'S IT. SHUT IT DOWN. PROBLEMS HERE ARE SOLVED! THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER PLACES ALL ALONG!
I think it's really something that the women in the 60s and the suffragettes even earlier should have considered, since they definitely had it good compared to some women in the world. That is the most legitimate reason to accept the status quo, after all!
Ugh! Don't interrupt the guy's thought process. He's simultaneously juggling three distraction tactics:
1) Look! Over There!
2) Be grateful you're not Over There and being slapped around, okay???
3) LOL also who's equal to men? NO ONE duh.
I didn't say be grateful you're not having your genitals mutilated. I implied that there needs to be some sense of scale and proportion. That doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement in places other than the worst places. It means it's not very productive to use rhetorical devices to make the less imperfect places seem like wretched hives of scum and villainy when the "patriarchy" is paying willing women boatloads of money to look hot.
Nothing that I saw in the conversation up to that point called for looniness like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" to be injected. And, again, the response was directed mostly at the buzzword lunacy.
ETA: The accusation of distraction tactics from the injector of third wave nutcasery is high comedy and evidence of low self-awareness.
0 -
shrinkingletters wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Backing up, I guess I don't understand why it's assumed that ads like the one in question (is your beach body ready?!) are only aimed at women. For example, one of the more famous ads:
Its not assumed that they're only aimed at women. They've been aimed at men too, we're just talking about this specific instance, which is in no means devalidating any other issues that exist simultaneously.
If it's being claimed as sexist, there seems to be implicit in that the assumption that women's body insecurity is being played on in a way that men's wouldn't be. I think women do tend to have more body insecurity/be judged more on our bodies, but ads like this one seem to be playing more on the general desire of everyone to fit an ideal.
I guess calling it sexist just doesn't make sense to me.
What the CEO said was dumb, but more anti-fat than sexist, also.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
No, I'm saying it's of the same type of mistake as using "racism" to describe all sorts of things that have nothing to do with "racism" and serve only to dilute the term and make it less effective when applied to actual racism. It's "the boy who cried wolf" syndrome.shrinkingletters wrote: »girlviernes wrote: »shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
OR you don't actually care as much about OP's commonly expressed concern as you do being a Super Cool Tough Guy That's Like, Tired of Words, which hey, carry on, good sir.
I'm not, like, tired of words. I like words. I am a bit tired, though, of people who profess to be the physical and mental equal of any man and empowered self-sufficient moral agents who wilt in the face of those mean, mean words.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
OR you don't actually care as much about OP's commonly expressed concern as you do being a Super Cool Tough Guy That's Like, Tired of Words, which hey, carry on, good sir.
If you want to find some real patriarchal Male Power Fantasy, look toward the places where women are treated as chattel and have body parts cut off, not where some mean guy says most of his target market is women who appear to like the product. Of course, the problem there is that that would involve actual risk and involve dealing with people who won't be shamed by your labels and who'd just as soon slap you around as respond to you.
WAIT
You mean to tell me things are different/worse in other places???
EVERYONE, THAT'S IT. SHUT IT DOWN. PROBLEMS HERE ARE SOLVED! THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER PLACES ALL ALONG!
I think it's really something that the women in the 60s and the suffragettes even earlier should have considered, since they definitely had it good compared to some women in the world. That is the most legitimate reason to accept the status quo, after all!
Ugh! Don't interrupt the guy's thought process. He's simultaneously juggling three distraction tactics:
1) Look! Over There!
2) Be grateful you're not Over There and being slapped around, okay???
3) LOL also who's equal to men? NO ONE duh.
I didn't say be grateful you're not having your genitals mutilated. I implied that there needs to be some sense of scale and proportion. That doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement in places other than the worst places. It means it's not very productive to use rhetorical devices to make the less imperfect places seem like wretched hives of scum and villainy when the "patriarchy" is paying willing women boatloads of money to look hot.
Nothing that I saw in the conversation up to that point called for looniness like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" to be injected. And, again, the response was directed mostly at the buzzword lunacy.
Oh do please continue to tell people how to explain things with words that don't sound a little too cuckoo-bananas for you. A heads up though, I have to lunch in 20 so I'll have to let go of your hand then.
Can someone cover me?0 -
How's it unfair?shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
I agree with your main paragraph. Of course it's rough out there for men, and women, who don't project what's perceived as desirable traits in a mate. That's hardly "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy," though. High school guys are rarely in positions of true power so, of course, it's going to be more a question of at least potential physical superiority at that point. For the most part, they can't provide for someone, so they are more dependent on the less rational (in this day and age) aspects of "superiority" that are still rattling around in the more primitive parts of our brains.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
So...you don't think our culture idealizes strong, powerful men as much as slim, youthful women? Because I sure think our collective expectations for men are just as frustrating as the ones we have for women...for men they just tend to be focused a little less on physical-appearance-as-sexual-attractiveness and more on power/money/strength as the key to a man's virility and sexual attractiveness.
It's just as rough out there for men who don't fit into that archetype as it is women who are a long way from fitness models.
If you're criticizing the third-wave jargon, that's fine, but I don't think the principle was too far off.
And, yeah, mostly it was about the buzzwords and jargon that are almost devoid of content at this point and act mainly as signaling mechanisms to others of the same mindset. If you think about it, it in itself is really not much more than a thinly veiled attempt at shaming.
You mean to say words mean things to people who know their meanings? Well, I never.
I'm glad to know that you're up in arms and totally throwing the conversation off the rails because of the words I chose and not because you disagree with my sympathizing with the OP at all about how unfair it is for men as well as women that there are these rigid standards of masculinity and femininity.
0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
How's it unfair?shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
I agree with your main paragraph. Of course it's rough out there for men, and women, who don't project what's perceived as desirable traits in a mate. That's hardly "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy," though. High school guys are rarely in positions of true power so, of course, it's going to be more a question of at least potential physical superiority at that point. For the most part, they can't provide for someone, so they are more dependent on the less rational (in this day and age) aspects of "superiority" that are still rattling around in the more primitive parts of our brains.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because gibberish like "patriarchal Male Power Fantasy" is already a parody of itself.shrinkingletters wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
You left out microagression and mansplaining, but you hit most of the buzzwords.shrinkingletters wrote: »KingofWisdom wrote: »Well, no one says anything when men are the ones being shamed. Men have body image issues too. Five to twelve percent of male high school students have used steroids by the time they are seniors. Off-topic, I know, but isn't the entire premise of viagra that you as a male are inadequate and need this magic drug to make yourself normal?
Yes actually, there are so many people, women included, who hate to see men shamed for not fitting into the patriarchal Male Power Fantasy of appearing jacked and hypermasculine.
You forgot manspreading
I hate that I attempted to express sympathy for the OP, which he appears to feel is something that is sorely lacking, and the dudes responding to it are turning it into a joke.
Wonder why that happens? Go figure.
So...you don't think our culture idealizes strong, powerful men as much as slim, youthful women? Because I sure think our collective expectations for men are just as frustrating as the ones we have for women...for men they just tend to be focused a little less on physical-appearance-as-sexual-attractiveness and more on power/money/strength as the key to a man's virility and sexual attractiveness.
It's just as rough out there for men who don't fit into that archetype as it is women who are a long way from fitness models.
If you're criticizing the third-wave jargon, that's fine, but I don't think the principle was too far off.
And, yeah, mostly it was about the buzzwords and jargon that are almost devoid of content at this point and act mainly as signaling mechanisms to others of the same mindset. If you think about it, it in itself is really not much more than a thinly veiled attempt at shaming.
You mean to say words mean things to people who know their meanings? Well, I never.
I'm glad to know that you're up in arms and totally throwing the conversation off the rails because of the words I chose and not because you disagree with my sympathizing with the OP at all about how unfair it is for men as well as women that there are these rigid standards of masculinity and femininity.
The man who I was responding to-before the wheels totally came off thanks to you, expressed feeling it was unfair for men to be held to a standard of masculinity that not every man can achieve, and that he felt there wasn't enough sympathy for men who end up inevitably feeling insecure about it-he could probably tell you, but you've missed the point spending all this time telling me how to use my words and talk about genital mutilation in other countries, which is not a thing people don't know about, so thanks.0
This discussion has been closed.
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