Weight Loss Tip: Focus on your Macro Percentages
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Then, and I'm just spitballing here, maybe it isn't useful to claim "In order for your body to function properly your carbs should be between 40-60%" when it isn't true. Because, you know, it isn't true.emmy_marino wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »After a year, I've just now gotten carbs up to 30% of my calories. I guess I'm missing why watching your macros is a weight loss tip.
Watching your macros was simply a suggestion from me in order to pay attention to foods and what they contain it's not the be all end all and will instantly give you results and that you MUST follow this of course different things work for different people and your needs may be different! I'm happy that you have found success and I wish you continued success in your journey!
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
Then, and I'm just spitballing here, maybe it isn't useful to claim "In order for your body to function properly your carbs should be between 40-60%" when it isn't true. Because, you know, it isn't true.emmy_marino wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »After a year, I've just now gotten carbs up to 30% of my calories. I guess I'm missing why watching your macros is a weight loss tip.
Watching your macros was simply a suggestion from me in order to pay attention to foods and what they contain it's not the be all end all and will instantly give you results and that you MUST follow this of course different things work for different people and your needs may be different! I'm happy that you have found success and I wish you continued success in your journey!
Better stated I should have said in order for your body to function properly you need to consume a minimum amount of carbs to keep it running. This minimum will greatly depend on your activity level and the type of activity that you do. Lol it does make sense that because your requirement for protein is so high that their pie chart will be altered as a result.
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This may be a contentious point but I think personal trainers should focus on .. oh I dunno.. training and leave nutrition advice to those who know what they're talking about either through being a registered dietician or actual knowledge with scientific basis
starvation mode - derp
I say this as someone who is happy at around 50% carbs .. cos yum carbs
LOLs. I think this is a reminder that just because someone is certified in one completely separate field, doesn't make them experts in another.
To say it's a completely separate field I would have to disagree. Your client can workout all they want with you and be hindering every bit of those results through their nutrition. You NEED to be able to give them some guidelines to help them in their journey but you should not be prescribing supplements and drawing up diet plans for them that's work for a registered dietician. The two fields go hand in hand and complement each other. If you go to a registered dietician first they will most likely suggest combining their program with a workout program and although they will not and cannot prescribe an exact program they can suggest hey why not get moving more go for runs and hikes, get in the gym or better yet try some classes or get a personal trainer. I hope you see the point I was trying to make.
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I actually disagree that people don't take you seriously if you don't say who you are. Especially with saying "I'm a trainer", I think it immediately takes away a little credibility because it's as if the person is trying to prove they know what they are talking about by saying that when it's better to prove what you know through what is actually said. The standard 1st level trainer programs NASM which is the best one, ISSA and ACE have very little nutritional focus.emmy_marino wrote: »I stated that I was a personal trainer because that does give some validity to my posts and I have studied on it. The spectrum is so vast and there are many personal trainers that are completely out of wack with their knowledge of nutrition those are some of the downfalls of our industry.
Yeah, I get that's probably why you stated it, but that concept is fallacious for reasons you point out in the subsequent sentence. Additionally, perfectly competent trainers will tend to disagree on topics. So, the fact that they're both trainers is, and should be, irrelevant.
Any information presented should be able to stand on its own merits, which will no doubt get discussed at length.
Agree with that one! I feel sometimes people don't get taken seriously if they don't state who they are what they do and where they come from.
I finally realized that while Instagram and Twitter and all those other social mediums are great not everyone on there is interested in fitness and nutrition where as here on MFP anyone using it is actually trying to learn more or using it as a helping tool whether you are trying to bulk up or loose weight or maintain we are all like minded individuals interested in what we put in our bodies. That drove me to get on here and get more active in the community!
Personal trainers get a bad rap when they speak on nutrition because there are many out there that will say outlandish things. I agree ACE doesn't focus much on nutrition of have my NSCA CSCS so it's more sports oriented and I went that route because I was a former athlete and thought initially I wanted to train athletes but realized to make a difference in a persons life and improve their functions of daily living is so much more rewarding.
I really have to agree with you and of course too late to take it back everyone on here now knows I'm a personal trainer lol let the science speak for itself. This got wayyyy into a convo that was not the intent and trying to answer everyone back has been exhausting.
Just need to formulate my posts better! I was also too quick with my responses and not expanding on subjects that needed more explanation.
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Just need to formulate my posts better! I was also too quick with my responses and not expanding on subjects that needed more explanation.
On that note, knowing the audience can help. Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I do read the forums a lot and certain patterns emerge.
For example, it's frequently a mistake to assume everyone has the same goals. And I'm not talking about the differences between someone trying to cut while someone else is trying to bulk. Some people have one idea about what's healthy that's very, very different from another person's idea of what's healthy. Even the idea that everyone is trying to be healthier isn't universal. That might sound odd, but it's true.
The takeaway there is to be more specific.
People are going to ask you to cite your source if you make a claim. The stronger and more general and unqualified the claim is, the more solid the source is going to have to be. They will then read that source and try to dismantle (note I did not say discredit) it. Sometimes this is part of a perfectly valid way of getting to the root of whatever is being discussed. It's a way of dealing with people sometimes cherry picking research. On the other hand, sometimes people just like to dismiss things that they don't agree with. Telling the difference between those two behaviors is not always easy.
The takeway is to know your source and be prepared to defend it as necessary.
Be prepared to question your own assumptions about pretty much anything beforehand because others are going to do just exactly that once you post something.
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EvanKeel - I like you.
I am also a professional in this area but don't usually refer to that because I'm here for me and my own struggles, I want my advice to stand or fail on its own merits, and, frankly, I'm lazy about backing up every single thing I say. There is a lot to learn here for all of us, so some humility is very helpful as well. OP, I'm glad to see you interacting with the critique instead of just reacting to it. From your posts it seems like you still have a lot to learn on the nutrition side, and you will learn a lot here if you stick around. Like you said, as a trainer, you do need to have a good grasp of how nutrition works as well as the limits of your knowledge.0 -
emmy_marino wrote: »MFP sets macros at minimums recommended by government departments I believe..
and I doubt very much that clients who JUST increase protein without resistance training or heavy lifting are building any muscle...come on.
I had an excess of fat (about 60lbs of it) make sure I get in lots of protein and lift heavy and if I built any muscle it's not much and it was when I was eating at maintenance over a 7 month period.
again...education is key and if people are interested in it certain personal trainers on this site is where they go..not someone touting that they are and giving out bad information.
Promoting balance in your macros I highly doubt is bad information and of course in order to build muscle (man or woman) you need to lift heavy and lift heavy consistently again this isn't a post about gaining muscle mass if it were I would've gotten into specifics. I used and rieterated generalized norms and minimums that the app also uses but my use of it and my knowledge on it is "questionable".
This post is about BALANCE is love to get into Kinesiology and Biomechanics with you guys no problem but don't see it being helpful to the average client who is already overwhelmed with simply counting calories and moving more.
So people who lift in 10-15 rep range which isn't really heavy at all cannot build muscle. I know I know I'm nitpicking but if you are going to start a thread about being a personal trainer then later said you are getting school with it you might want to watch how you word things. Some people don't know and you say misguided information and incorrect information makes this personal trainer title you have look bad on you.
I still waiting for links on this carbs general rule of thumb? I have never heard of it.
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yopeeps025 wrote: »emmy_marino wrote: »MFP sets macros at minimums recommended by government departments I believe..
and I doubt very much that clients who JUST increase protein without resistance training or heavy lifting are building any muscle...come on.
I had an excess of fat (about 60lbs of it) make sure I get in lots of protein and lift heavy and if I built any muscle it's not much and it was when I was eating at maintenance over a 7 month period.
again...education is key and if people are interested in it certain personal trainers on this site is where they go..not someone touting that they are and giving out bad information.
Promoting balance in your macros I highly doubt is bad information and of course in order to build muscle (man or woman) you need to lift heavy and lift heavy consistently again this isn't a post about gaining muscle mass if it were I would've gotten into specifics. I used and rieterated generalized norms and minimums that the app also uses but my use of it and my knowledge on it is "questionable".
This post is about BALANCE is love to get into Kinesiology and Biomechanics with you guys no problem but don't see it being helpful to the average client who is already overwhelmed with simply counting calories and moving more.
So people who lift in 10-15 rep range which isn't really heavy at all cannot build muscle. I know I know I'm nitpicking but if you are going to start a thread about being a personal trainer then later said you are getting school with it you might want to watch how you word things. Some people don't know and you say misguided information and incorrect information makes this personal trainer title you have look bad on you.
I still waiting for links on this carbs general rule of thumb? I have never heard of it.
10-15 rep range is general conditioning, lifting heavy is relative. Do you fatigue towards your last few reps or do you fly through your exercises easily. Lifting heavy means choosing an appropriate weight that will fatigue you towards the end of your reps. Are you training for general fitness? Hypertrophy? Strength? Muscle Endurance? all have different rep ranges but and likewise you should be lifting heavy enough to bring your muscles to that fatiguing point where you can still push through it. So I stand by my statement of lifting heavy!
In regards to the articles and links try this article that breaks down and talks about Macros and changing your macros based on your activity intensity and duration:
http://pledgetostayfit.com/what-are-macronutrient-ratios-and-which-to-use-with-beachbody-workouts
"The USDA recommends that based on a 2,000 calorie diet, you would need 91 grams of protein, 65 grams of fat and 271 grams of carbs which breaks down to 18% protein, 29% fat and 53% carbs. (20-30-50)" The 40-60 percent range is mod to high carb consumption which is considered safe. 53% falls within that range and given as a starting point so my advice to aim for 40-60 % is within that safe range now if you want to go below and above then do so if NEEDED. Helping people with a starting point again not a be all end all.
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*smh*
sorry beachbody? please don't tell me you subscribe to that0 -
*smh*
sorry beachbody? please don't tell me you subscribe to that
So everything they post is irrelevant? Their quote of USDA average recommendations is correct and they do a good job of explaining this Marcronutrient component in an easily digestible read. Look it up yourself then! I found tons on info on Macros and "suggestions" on what optimal is and it was ALL based on what your level of activity is! And no I do not subscribe to that.
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emmy_marino wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »emmy_marino wrote: »MFP sets macros at minimums recommended by government departments I believe..
and I doubt very much that clients who JUST increase protein without resistance training or heavy lifting are building any muscle...come on.
I had an excess of fat (about 60lbs of it) make sure I get in lots of protein and lift heavy and if I built any muscle it's not much and it was when I was eating at maintenance over a 7 month period.
again...education is key and if people are interested in it certain personal trainers on this site is where they go..not someone touting that they are and giving out bad information.
Promoting balance in your macros I highly doubt is bad information and of course in order to build muscle (man or woman) you need to lift heavy and lift heavy consistently again this isn't a post about gaining muscle mass if it were I would've gotten into specifics. I used and rieterated generalized norms and minimums that the app also uses but my use of it and my knowledge on it is "questionable".
This post is about BALANCE is love to get into Kinesiology and Biomechanics with you guys no problem but don't see it being helpful to the average client who is already overwhelmed with simply counting calories and moving more.
So people who lift in 10-15 rep range which isn't really heavy at all cannot build muscle. I know I know I'm nitpicking but if you are going to start a thread about being a personal trainer then later said you are getting school with it you might want to watch how you word things. Some people don't know and you say misguided information and incorrect information makes this personal trainer title you have look bad on you.
I still waiting for links on this carbs general rule of thumb? I have never heard of it.
10-15 rep range is general conditioning, lifting heavy is relative. Do you fatigue towards your last few reps or do you fly through your exercises easily. Lifting heavy means choosing an appropriate weight that will fatigue you towards the end of your reps. Are you training for general fitness? Hypertrophy? Strength? Muscle Endurance? all have different rep ranges but and likewise you should be lifting heavy enough to bring your muscles to that fatiguing point where you can still push through it. So I stand by my statement of lifting heavy!
In regards to the articles and links try this article that breaks down and talks about Macros and changing your macros based on your activity intensity and duration:
http://pledgetostayfit.com/what-are-macronutrient-ratios-and-which-to-use-with-beachbody-workouts
"The USDA recommends that based on a 2,000 calorie diet, you would need 91 grams of protein, 65 grams of fat and 271 grams of carbs which breaks down to 18% protein, 29% fat and 53% carbs. (20-30-50)" The 40-60 percent range is mod to high carb consumption which is considered safe. 53% falls within that range and given as a starting point so my advice to aim for 40-60 % is within that safe range now if you want to go below and above then do so if NEEDED. Helping people with a starting point again not a be all end all.
From the article
"What I have learned is even though you may be getting the right amount of calories, that sometime isn’t enough. It comes down to what kind of calories you are eating in terms of Protein, fat and carbohydrates."
First paragraph and that is where I stop. Unless the article tries to say that you can eat more with another macro and lose more weight then a larger deficit with a different macro distribution?
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http://www1.msjc.edu/hs/nutr100/energy_macro_need.html :
"IMPORTANT: Most RD's recommend 55-60% of calories from carbohydrates with less than 10% of carbohydrates coming from simple carbs like sodas, sweets, chips, etc. and 20-30% of calories from fats with less than 7% coming from saturated fats and none coming from trans fats. Protein intake varies between .8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight to 2.0 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight-- about 10%-15% of total calories. Variances are based upon gender and desire to increase lean tissue, primarily muscle mass. *Higher amounts of protein are recommended for those trying to increase muscle mass, but amounts >2.0 grams of protein per kg of body weight are unnecessary.
* "... there is little good evidence that the very high protein intakes (more than 2 grams per kilogram of body weight per day) typically consumed by strength athletes are beneficial. Moreover, it is possible to obtain this quantity of protein without special supplementation assuming a mixed diet containing sufficient energy is consumed (http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/Protein.htm)."
http://bodytransformationfitness.com/dieting-macronutrient-ratios-guide/ :
"Determining the dieting macronutrient ratios that are best for you is key. Since everyone’s metabolism is different and the guidelines are so general, you may have to experiment a little in order to find the combination of protein, carbohydrates, and fat that is best for you. Even if doing so is hard or inconvenient, it will be worth it in the end":
http://www.nutritionexpress.com/article+index/protein/all+about+protein/showarticle.aspx?id=1290 http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/increase-your-metabolism-start-losing-fat http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_nutrition/protein_prejudice http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/food-thought/201307/three-reasons-dieters-should-eat-more-protein http://journal.diabetes.org/diabetesspectrum/00v13n3/pg132.htm http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24092765 http://jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49.full http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3480374 http://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-testosterone http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/30/testosterone-women-hormone-therapy_n_3634847.html http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/low-fat-diets http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/80/2/396.full.pdf+html http://www.simplyshredded.com/layne-norton-the-most-effective-cutting-diet.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed53QRonvzM http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article folder/glycogen.html#sthash.FPnhHMU5.dpuf http://journal.diabetes.org/diabetesspectrum/00v13n3/pg132.htm http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/how-many-carbohydrates-do-you-need.html 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryHDHbRYHes#sthash.FPnhHMU5.dpuf http://www.leangains.com/2010/06/intermittent-fasting-and-stubborn-body.html#sthash.FPnhHMU5.dpuf http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/how-many-carbohydrates-do-you-need.html#sthash.FPnhHMU5.dpuf Alan Aragon Research Review, February 2011 (cite21) 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXWSmMnn7sM#sthash.FPnhHMU5.dpuf - See more at: http://bodytransformationfitness.com/dieting-macronutrient-ratios-guide/#sthash.CZKcW7yA.dpuf 0 -
emmy_marino wrote: »*smh*
sorry beachbody? please don't tell me you subscribe to that
So everything they post is irrelevant? Their quote of USDA average recommendations is correct and they do a good job of explaining this Marcronutrient component in an easily digestible read. Look it up yourself then! I found tons on info on Macros and "suggestions" on what optimal is and it was ALL based on what your level of activity is! And no I do not subscribe to that.
No it doesn't make the rest irrelevant.
I am not disagreeing with your assertion on balancing macros for activity/goals.
I manually set mine here and watch them closely.
I used to have fairly low carbs (40%) and then realized after going to maintenance carbs helped with my lifts more than I thought they would...
I prefer other sources tho than Beachbody info...I just can't do it.
And USDA I do find ignores protein too much in favour of carbs...for me based on what I have read 1gram of protein for every pound of LBM or 0.8grams per lb of weight. Then base your fats on LBM (if you can) and the rest falls to carbs.
Then tweak as necessary based on your goals.
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http://www.innerbody.com/nutrition/macronutrients :
"Carbohydrates in the Diet
Carbohydrates, protein and fats are macronutrients, meaning the body requires them in relatively large amounts for normal functioning. The Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for carbohydrates for children and adults is 130 grams and is based on the average minimum amount of glucose used by the brain.[1] The Acceptable Macronutrient Distribution Range (AMDR) for carbohydrates is 45–65%. If, for instance, you ate 1600 kcals per day, the acceptable carbohydrate intake ranges from 180 grams to 260 grams."0 -
emmy_marino wrote: »I'm a personal trainer here in NYC and have used this app a lot! I find this app really helps me stay accountable and helps me stay on track with my nutrition! As I used this app more and more I discovered some of its awesome features! My fav is the Macro pie chart (you can get to it at the bottom of your diary).
The app already pre-sets your percentage breakdown and as you get more educated on nutrition you can start to play with those percentages. In order for your body to function properly your carbs should be between 40-60% of your food intake of course you want keep your carbs down but if you deplete your body of the necessary carbs it will go into starvation mode (not good for the metabolism).
The best results I've seen so far using this apps has been through monitoring my Macro pie chart throughout the day and it helps me with my meal choices too! For example I usually try and keep to have balanced meals but in the mornings I tend to be more carb heavy... Not a prob for a snack I'll just have a protein shake or have more protein for lunch and cut down on the carbs (remember fruits count as carbs!) I've seen some amazing results in my body
try using this method for a week and see how it works for you!!!
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlMwc1c0HRQ 0 -
But you be the judge my GENERALIZATION and starting point for people to have their carb range stay in the 40-60% is wrong and so is MFP's default average, so is USDA's avg and all these articles also are incorrect? Again GENERAL, AVG, STARTING POINT, are all words that relate to that 40-60% number it does not mean YOU NEEEEED to be there and if you keep your carbs under 40% and/or over 60% thats great hopefully you've done your research and have sound reasoning for it.
The first fad was low fat diets - doesn't work
The next huge fad was extreme low carb diets - ya ok they work but not sustainable at all
So eat your carbs enjoy your workouts and find what works for YOU!0 -
So much derp OP...0
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emmy_marino wrote: »But you be the judge my GENERALIZATION and starting point for people to have their carb range stay in the 40-60% is wrong and so is MFP's default average, so is USDA's avg and all these articles also are incorrect? Again GENERAL, AVG, STARTING POINT, are all words that relate to that 40-60% number it does not mean YOU NEEEEED to be there and if you keep your carbs under 40% and/or over 60% thats great hopefully you've done your research and have sound reasoning for it.
The first fad was low fat diets - doesn't work
The next huge fad was extreme low carb diets - ya ok they work but not sustainable at all
So eat your carbs enjoy your workouts and find what works for YOU!
Exactly and I think I would of heard or read about this general rule for carbs somewhere during my countless hours of research. I have never heard of that rule
also was the 2000 diet not also with the food pyramid. So can we really still use that since the food pyramid died? at least in the USA.
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emmy_marino wrote: »*smh*
sorry beachbody? please don't tell me you subscribe to that
So everything they post is irrelevant? Their quote of USDA average recommendations is correct and they do a good job of explaining this Marcronutrient component in an easily digestible read. Look it up yourself then! I found tons on info on Macros and "suggestions" on what optimal is and it was ALL based on what your level of activity is! And no I do not subscribe to that.
No it doesn't make the rest irrelevant.
I am not disagreeing with your assertion on balancing macros for activity/goals.
I manually set mine here and watch them closely.
I used to have fairly low carbs (40%) and then realized after going to maintenance carbs helped with my lifts more than I thought they would...
I prefer other sources tho than Beachbody info...I just can't do it.
And USDA I do find ignores protein too much in favour of carbs...for me based on what I have read 1gram of protein for every pound of LBM or 0.8grams per lb of weight. Then base your fats on LBM (if you can) and the rest falls to carbs.
Then tweak as necessary based on your goals.
110% agree with you! I found USDA's recommendation for protein too low as well. My OP was extremely too general but what you just said above is literally exactly what I would like to point out in this app its a great feature you can learn more about and play around with. I was surprised how off my numbers were sometimes and as I monitored that pie chart it just gave me a visual of ok hey my protein is really low for today I'm obviously not consuming enough let me be more balance. Just a focus on balance and what works for you!0 -
I actually prefer this sort of paper
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3617924/
However
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/how-many-carbohydrates-do-you-need.html/#sthash.FPnhHMU5.dpuf this one I have read...It’s safe to say that most carbohydrate recommendations that you will see are put in terms of percentages, you should be eating 45% of your calories as carbs, or 65% or whatever number is being used.
As I discussed in Diet Percentages: Part 2, I don’t like this method.Rather, putting nutrient recommendations in terms of grams per kilogram or per pound is generally more valid (with one exception I discuss below). The percentages are simply meaningless without knowing how many carbohydrates are being provided in terms of gram amounts.
AS well the part in that article about "The Impact of Exercise"
and thisFor a typical male with 160 pounds of lean body mass, daily carbohydrate intake could range from the physiological requirement of zero grams per day to a near maximum of 1120 g/day during a carb-load. Which makes it no wonder that people are confused.
Simply, the question “How Many Carbohydrates Do You Need?” has no singular answer. The goals of the person, the amount and type of activity, their individual needs (e.g. insulin sensitive vs. resistant, whether or not they function well in ketosis or not), their individual goals all determine how many carbs are ideal in the diet.
and no offence but some of the links you provide are bro science...0 -
The next huge fad was extreme low carb diets - ya ok they work but not sustainable at all
So eat your carbs enjoy your workouts and find what works for YOU!
See, this right there. This is the type of thing that prompts people jump all over a post.
Many people do maintain low carb diets over extended periods of time. I *think* you intended to communicate that the industry trend to vilify carbs is unjustified. But that doesn't mean that low carb diets are any less sustainable than 40/30/30, for example.
I don't happen to like low carb...at all, but if someone wanted to try it and it helps them maintain a caloric deficit, then great. Have at it. I'm not going to discourage it.
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When you look up Macros you get a lot of body building bro science that is very true! I think the avg pop shouldn't ignore macros either0
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The next huge fad was extreme low carb diets - ya ok they work but not sustainable at all
So eat your carbs enjoy your workouts and find what works for YOU!
See, this right there. This is the type of thing that prompts people jump all over a post.
Many people do maintain low carb diets over extended periods of time. I *think* you intended to communicate that the industry trend to vilify carbs is unjustified. But that doesn't mean that low carb diets are any less sustainable than 40/30/30, for example.
I don't happen to like low carb...at all, but if someone wanted to try it and it helps them maintain a caloric deficit, then great. Have at it. I'm not going to discourage it.
you are a very reasonable person...don't get that much here...it's refreshing.
Sorry off topic I know.0 -
Against my better judgment, IN.0
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The next huge fad was extreme low carb diets - ya ok they work but not sustainable at all
So eat your carbs enjoy your workouts and find what works for YOU!
See, this right there. This is the type of thing that prompts people jump all over a post.
Many people do maintain low carb diets over extended periods of time. I *think* you intended to communicate that the industry trend to vilify carbs is unjustified. But that doesn't mean that low carb diets are any less sustainable than 40/30/30, for example.
I don't happen to like low carb...at all, but if someone wanted to try it and it helps them maintain a caloric deficit, then great. Have at it. I'm not going to discourage it.
you are a very reasonable person...don't get that much here...it's refreshing.
Sorry off topic I know.
No no, it's sooo true. Also very clear and concise.0 -
Officially convinced that people on this site are addicted to arguing and that it feeds into their sense of superiority.0
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Capt_Apollo wrote: »
Yes, we are! And that I can acknowledge it clearly makes me better than you!0
This discussion has been closed.
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