Is a High Carb, Low Fat Diet Better Than High Fat, Low Carb?
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I thought this was a very helpful, and simple, article about nutrition:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/21/upshot/simple-rules-for-healthy-eating.html?ref=health&_r=0&abt=0002&abg=00 -
I've been LCHF (keto) since the beginning of this year but have also coupled that with eating at or below my recommended calories (calorie deficit). I'm not sure who told you that you can eat as much as you want on keto- that just isn't true. While eating a keto diet helps many people feel fuller throught the day you must still have a calorie deficit to lose weight. I would reccomend starting with MFP and reading more about keto or any other add-on plan before starting one. I researched keto for two weeks before starting and it's worked great for me- however we are all different. Talk to your doctor and read up! Good luck!0
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teaflowermfp wrote: »SORRY GUYS! I meant to say "Keto" instead of "Paleo". And thank you to those of you who are giving me support. The one thing the keto advocaters and freelee both really, really stress is that eating at a calorie deficit is terrible and by following their diets you can eat as much as you want, and you should. It's a bit like fear mongering, they terrify you into thinking a typical western diet is the cause of all your problems. I guess I've been overthinking dieting
You get a ton of information from people who have pet diets (or want you to buy their stuff) and it's confusing. I imagine if you decide to buckle down and eat well you may feel like want to make sure you do it right.
I think it's best not to make it too complicated. In your case I really would ask for a referral to a dietician, but MFP is actually pretty decent if you use it right, and then you pay attention to your results and modify.
I know various people who do paleo, and am familiar with keto through this board, and lots of people who do those ways of eating (or less extreme versions of vegan/vegetarian/plant-based) do count calories, because while you often can lose without counting doing those plans, not everyone does, and counting calories is a good way to make sure you can lose weight no matter how you choose to eat. Some people find counting calories burdensome, but not everyone does (I like it, since I like data).
Anyway, anyone who says you can lose without eating at a calorie deficit is wrong or lying, but there are ways to get a calorie deficit that don't involve counting. Also, there are some commonalities that lots of these plans have--eat your veggies, get enough protein (raw isn't so into that, though), limit sweets and highly processed carbs/fatty/fried meats, try to get a lot of whole foods, stuff like that.
As for what to pick (if any--I just eat according to my own ideas and preferences, but try to be generally healthy), it's going to depend on your goals and preferences, whatever works best for your health, and eventually some experimentation to see how you react to different things. I think both vegan (not so much freelee's nonsense) and keto work great for the right people, but neither happens to be what works for me.0 -
I would LOVE to see some high fat low carb doctors who have reversed heart disease? Oh, right. There aren't any.0
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CICO.0
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teaflowermfp wrote: »SORRY GUYS! I meant to say "Keto" instead of "Paleo". And thank you to those of you who are giving me support. The one thing the keto advocaters and freelee both really, really stress is that eating at a calorie deficit is terrible and by following their diets you can eat as much as you want, and you should. It's a bit like fear mongering, they terrify you into thinking a typical western diet is the cause of all your problems. I guess I've been overthinking dieting
Keto advocates do not stress that eating at a deficit is terrible, they simply acknowledge that you can have a deficit without counting, just like you can breathe without counting how much oxygen you inhale. Where exactly are you getting this "keto" information that sounds nothing at all like keto?
This!
And different things will work for different people and at different times. I lost a little bit without counting once I went Keto and then I've started losing again by using MFP. So it isn't either/or.
The advantage I find in Keto is that I'm not at the mercy of sugar cravings anymore. I have kept with the way of eating even when I didn't lose weight because I liked how I felt so much better. Felt like I had quit a drug addiction.
But I have no idea if I can truly say that everyone is adapts to it the same way. I just know I never plan to go back to "balanced" eating at this point, though I will reassess if necessary.
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How I wade through it:
Calorie deficit for weight loss. Period. There are no shortcuts or workarounds or exceptions.
For health, wellbeing, energy, etc: Consider this to have no right answer / everyone is a snowflake in this regard -- similar but not the same. If you think you can improve how you feel by changing your food choices, food timing, etc, give it a try. You can try just eating how you eat and trying to notice things (feeling weak between breakfast and lunch, feeling more satisfied after certain meals than others, etc) and make changes to try to address them. Or you can try following a plan that others have identified is helpful for them -- give it a solid try, maybe a month or so, and then DO make adjustments that you feel you need to make for it to work for you, to really see if it will. Dump it if it doesn't. (Ignore people who say "well then you're NOT a clean eater/paleo/whatever" because who cares? You're just trying to feel better.)
Ignore all claims from those selling/pushing the diet. They will all claim to fix fatigue or whatever. Again, snowflakes. It may or may not be right for your body, your mind, your life, so try things to see how your body responds, do NOT expect to get anything they're pitching. For every person whose fatigue was fixed, there's another who started out fine and ended up fatigued. I promise there's no holy grail, one right answer, One Way of Eating for All to be found.
I also think most people do best without any sort of special roadmap at all, just eating how they eat, and fine tuning that over time.
Learn enough about nutrition or do some research to know whether something is worth trying or not. IMO, Freelee is best avoided. Please get enough fat and protein and eat at a calorie deficit (if you're trying to lose) and do not consume primarily bananas (or primarily any other carb source).0 -
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I would LOVE to see some high fat low carb doctors who have reversed heart disease? Oh, right. There aren't any.
I don't believe in any extreme. Super high fat is probably just as bad as super high carb.
All I know is that since I started eating "NORMAL" servings of fat, protein, fiber, etc...I feel great. About 40 grams of fat, 40-60 grams of protein, and at least 30 grams of fiber...I feel great. My joints feel good, I have energy, I am not starving, I am not always on the verge of a junk food binge.
Although out of a clear blue sky I just remembered I have a box of thin mints in the freezer downstairs, and now I want to eat them ALL. ALL I TELL YOU. (But I shall stay strong.)
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There is a lot of scientific support out there for a high-carb, low-fat, whole-food, plant-based diet. (Say that 10 times fast!) People on this board seem to love protein and fat, and I can understand why they rail against Freelee, but please check out these Doctors for more support of the HCLF way: Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Campbell, Dr. McDougall, Dr. Klaper, Dr. Barnard and Dr. Greger.
These are all medical doctors who have either PROVEN to reverse heart disease, diabetes and other ailments, or in the case of Dr. Greger, review peer-reviewed scientific studies and create short videos about them to inform the public.
Sorry, but I haven't seen any Paleo Doctor who's reversed heart disease and diabetes. I haven't even seen one who's been willing to put up their bloodwork for us to see.
Also, plants are good for us. Period.
With that said, it's also a good idea to count your calories.
I totally agree with this ^^^
I am a type 1 diabetic and have been following a hclf plant based diet now also breakfast and lunch raw with a cooked eve meal for 3 months and I'm loving it!! I'm eating way more than I did before and losing weight steadily....I have loads of energy (which helps running around after my kids!!)....I'm also a runner and my runs are a lot easier now.
My diabetes is controlled a lot better now although I did have to adjust my insulin regime when I started but now I'm doing a lot less insulin than before and it's a lot more stable.
I also agree freelee is extreme but I love her!!! And who wouldn't want to look like that lets be honest!! There is a lot of actual evidence as mentioned above which really supports this lifestyle.....I love being able to eat in abundance and for the first time in years I'm enjoying food again and not counting calories!!
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I don't like Freelee, she believes that anyone who consumes animal products don't deserve to live. Yes, it's on her youtube channel.
OP, just pick one and try for a while. Personally, I find that carbs are not filling and are a binge trigger for me. This isn't the case for everyone. So I try and limit my carbs and fill up on healthy fats and protein to keep me full and keep my lean body mass. What I prefer might not work for you. Humans have evolved to consume -literally- 99% of what is found in nature. Whale blubbler, bird nests, chicken feet, dandelions, etc. Vegetables are always awesome, whatever you choose, vegetables always have a good nutrient to calorie ratio.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »There is nothing legit about Banana Girl. There is a lot of legit behind HFLC, particularly if you have certain medical/metabolic issues. That said, you can't just eat whatever you want...an energy deficit is still required to lose weight. Also, low carbing isn't necessary to lose weight...it's simply a means to an end.
Well put.
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Sorry, I must have missed the part in the OP where she has heart disease. I mean, it keeps getting mentioned in this thread, so it must be relevant...0
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I sent you a personal message with my experiences. Good luck with whatever you choose.0
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Diets composed mostly or entirely of fruit are dangerous and associated with pancreatic cancer--too much fructose. Steve Jobs was a fruitarian for many years--named his company after his favorite fruit, Apple Inc.---and died of pancreatic cancer. Drinking lots of soda pop is also associated with pancreatic cancer--again, high fructose intake from the high fructose corn syrup with which it is sweetened.
Very high fructose consumption is probably as hard on the body as is consuming lots of alcohol. Actually, both are assimilated in very similar ways and even if you don't get pancreatic cancer, you could get NAFLD (non-alcoholic fatty liver disease) or Type II diabetes, if you are susceptible. Table sugar (sucrose) is 50% fructose and represents the single largest exposure to fructose in the standard diet. A couple of normal servings of fruit per day are just fine, but there are a lot of people who simply cannot deal with the high amount of fructose in a modern processed food diet.0 -
It doesn't matter - You do have to throw away everything you think you know about dieting, every fad, book, personality endorsed marketed rubbish
It's about CICO
and from there it just depends what you can stick to in order to consume fewer calories than you burn
with the exception of certain medical conditions, in which case you should take a registered dietician's advice and not make up your own rules
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Don't overwhelm yourself with details. You tried Keto, you tried raw vegan, now try simply logging your food without rules other than eating the calories allotted to you by MFP. When you've tried it for a couple of weeks think about your experiences. Which diet was easiest for you to follow and caused you the least stress? Take that and follow it. All the different diets are just different routes to the same goal, that is eating less calories. There is no one diet that is ultimately better than another. There is, however, a diet that is better for you. It's the diet you are most likely to stick to.0
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Also, plants are good for us. Period.
With that said, it's also a good idea to count your calories.
I totally agree. It is possible to do that while eating a diet that is lower or moderate in carbohydrates and moderate in fat. The key is to minimize fruits and grains while eating lots of other vegetables.
OP, you can't treat your own thyroid issues. You need to be seen by a qualified endocrinologist. Untreated thyroid disease can lead to all kinds of very bad stuff, including psychosis. Get it treated.0 -
Month old post, OP isn't even logging anymore, why is this getting bumped?0
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I've been paleo (ish) for over 4 years and it really helps with my IBS. (It kinda goes out of the window during PMS though). I was vegetarian before decidign to go paleo. I don't think paleo is really compatable with vegetarianism, in my experience.0
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I just have to chime in here. . .I know for a fact (have several co-workers who go there) that the biggest, fanciest, most popular weight loss clinic that is attached to a hospital in my medium sized city is staffed with dietitians who mostly put people on a moderate keto diet to lose weight. So if you're really opposed to it as a diet, you might not want to send folks running to the medical profession.0
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It doesn't matter - You do have to throw away everything you think you know about dieting, every fad, book, personality endorsed marketed rubbish
It's about CICO
and from there it just depends what you can stick to in order to consume fewer calories than you burn
with the exception of certain medical conditions, in which case you should take a registered dietician's advice and not make up your own rules
Agreed, unless you have a specific medical condition you have to eat around, there is no need to skew your marcos towards a particular direction.0 -
teaflowermfp wrote: »What's a girl supposed to do? I'm 19 years old. I have a goiter and I'm on the borderline for hypothyroidism. I have to take a steroid inhaler for my tracheal disease before doing any exercise harder than a walk. My birth control causes me to retain a lot of water. Both diets claim I can do away with these problems for good but I can't tell which one works and I'm terrified of trying it only to further damage my body.
Does anyone have any experience, success stories, or advice?
Oh my. Please think about this rationally. Who is better equipped to answer your questions. Strangers on the internet, or the physicians who are familiar with your specific medical conditions.
Talk to your doctors!1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »teaflowermfp wrote: »What's a girl supposed to do? I'm 19 years old. I have a goiter and I'm on the borderline for hypothyroidism. I have to take a steroid inhaler for my tracheal disease before doing any exercise harder than a walk. My birth control causes me to retain a lot of water. Both diets claim I can do away with these problems for good but I can't tell which one works and I'm terrified of trying it only to further damage my body.
Does anyone have any experience, success stories, or advice?
Oh my. Please think about this rationally. Who is better equipped to answer your questions. Strangers on the internet, or the physicians who are familiar with your specific medical conditions.
Talk to your doctors!
THIS ^ ^ ^
Most doctors will put their patients on a well balanced diet, tweaked for their specific health condition. Very few will put their patients on anything extreme, unless it is necessary and then they will monitor it closely.
My example: I was diagnosed T2 diabetic in Jan 2014. My doctor put me on a reduced carb diet (no more than 180 g daily) and let me decide on the rest, but I had to report back to her in our every three months follow-up visits (I printed out the MFP reports for calories, carbs, protein, and fat for the previous 90 days for her to look at). My a1c was back into normal range and I was off the meds in less than a year.
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As most people here have correctly stated - A reasonable, moderate diet of all macronutrients is not only best for you but its also sustainable which is a HUGE part of keeping your fitness level and weight goals in-tact. Im sorry but Keto, Paleo, Atkins, North beach, Sout Beach, west peninsula, blah, blah diets are all so obnoxious that I cant stand hearing about it anymore. The word "diet" implies something is temporary anyways and fitness shouldnt be temporary it should be forever.
Eat some carbs, eat some fats, and eat some protein. Workout regularly and vigorously. You'll be fine.
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There is a lot of scientific support out there for a high-carb, low-fat, whole-food, plant-based diet. (Say that 10 times fast!) People on this board seem to love protein and fat, and I can understand why they rail against Freelee, but please check out these Doctors for more support of the HCLF way: Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Campbell, Dr. McDougall, Dr. Klaper, Dr. Barnard and Dr. Greger.
These are all medical doctors who have either PROVEN to reverse heart disease, diabetes and other ailments, or in the case of Dr. Greger, review peer-reviewed scientific studies and create short videos about them to inform the public.
Sorry but that's BS. McDougall's name is synonymous with "unfounded claims based on horrible epidemiology." The diet they recommend is effective for weight loss because it's incredibly restrictive. It's based on plants so it's also pretty healthy; I'll give them that.
However, you don't have to eat so restrictively to reap the benefits of eating plants. And your body composition will be a heck of a lot better if you eat more protein then they recommend. And oh yeah, their diet requires B12 supplementation . . . sounds pretty natural . . .
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I'm not sure if others have already said this but I eat a low fat-low carb diet while maintaining a calorie deficit. I find I can eat a lot of food and still lose weight.0
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