Reactions to veganism
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'Fruits, nuts, and some veggies are very expensive. You couldn't eat a healthy vegan diet on a limited, fixed income. Besides which, what if those things don't appeal to you. Would you want to be forced into eating those things based on other people's ethics? '
Thank you for the laugh
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LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »I still don't understand what is so ethical or moral about eating a vegan diet. If you don't want to eat meat, that's fine. It's the whole packaging to turn vegans into sooperspeshul people that makes it so obnoxious to so many other people. There's nothing special about it. Lots of animals die to feed vegans and veganism is an unsustainable diet on a global level.
You are somewhat wrong. You should check out how much food/fodder and water it takes and how much space is used to produce a pound of meat, you will be surprised !
That food and water could go right to the end consumer and most likely will be the only way this planet can feed itself in the future. Maybe not in the near future, but with every couple of generations it will be more difficult to feed the planet, if most of the space is used to grow animal food and if we don't make major changes in our diets. And no, I am neither a vegan, nor a vegetarian.....
No, it's simply not sustainable. First of all, where would we get the fertilizer for all those plants? Much of our planet's land mass is not arable land. Food animals can graze on land that will not support plants grown for human consumption. I won't even go into all the objections that go with attempting to globalize veganism.
Another major issue I have with veganism is that it is NOT simply a dietary choice. Other people's dietary choices make no nevermind to me--clean eating? Have at it. Paleo--have a chop, on me. Keto? Not my cup of tea, but if you can get past the cruds, awesome. Veganism, at least "ethical" veganism is a poke in the eye at everyone else. "Ethical" vegans are not just casting judgment on other people, but they also attempt to force their beliefs on other people. They walk hand-in-hand with animal rights activists, who feel that animals are "not ours to own or use," not because they love animals, but because they want to control what other people have in their lives. Don't want to own animals? Fine. Don't want to eat meat? Your prerogative. Don't tell me what I can own or eat and don't try to make my life miserable for owning it or using it. IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, vegans and animal rights activists are unpleasant people who want to take away my dogs, my goats, and my favorite foods. They all need to get lives, so I can keep mine.
Vegans make your life miserable ? Why would you give any group of people that much power over yourself ? Are you really that weak that you feel they are taking your life away ?
I know quite a few very decent vegans and vegetarians and being a practicing Buddhist for just under 30 years ( and eating animal parts and products ) I can only say that none of them have ever bothered me. Maybe my somewhat open/accepting attitude makes a difference....:o).
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'Fruits, nuts, and some veggies are very expensive. You couldn't eat a healthy vegan diet on a limited, fixed income. Besides which, what if those things don't appeal to you. Would you want to be forced into eating those things based on other people's ethics? '
Thank you for the laugh
Glad to oblige. Tell me: if a pack of boneless, skinless chicken thighs that lasts for seven meals and a bag of walnuts that lasts for two meals costs the same, where did I go wrong?
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Glad to oblige. Tell me: if a pack of boneless, skinless chicken thighs that lasts for seven meals and a bag of walnuts that lasts for two meals costs the same, where did I go wrong?
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How about this for where you went wrong: a bag of dried beans or lentils that lasts me for a month costs less than a pack of chicken thighs that makes seven meals. Ive been vegetarian for about 2 years. My grocery bill went down significantly after I stopped eating meat and is even less since Ive almost stopped eating cheese and milk.0 -
lauramcgrath1 wrote: »
Glad to oblige. Tell me: if a pack of boneless, skinless chicken thighs that lasts for seven meals and a bag of walnuts that lasts for two meals costs the same, where did I go wrong?
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How about this for where you went wrong: a bag of dried beans or lentils that lasts me for a month costs less than a pack of chicken thighs that makes seven meals. Ive been vegetarian for about 2 years. My grocery bill went down significantly after I stopped eating meat and is even less since Ive almost stopped eating cheese and milk. [/quote]
I agree with you. I work in Humanitarian Aid with a specialty in Community Nutrition ( developing food plans and diets for people in distress/need after natural catastrophes, wars, disease etc ) for the WHO. We work with a budget of just under US$ 1.50 a day to feed people a nutritional sustainable diet. It is difficult, but can be done. If we would include meat into this diet plan the daily budget would depending on the country increase by around -.75 cents to almost US$ 1.50. This is because we also would have to pay for special transport, storage in refrigeration etc. Considering that right now 50 millions people are being fed by relief organisations because they are internally displaced ( like in Iraq, Syria because of war or in Nepal, due to the horrible quakes) or in refugee camps that makes a difference of 37.5 to 70 million a day. Unless people chose to eat imported gourmet vegetarian and vegan foods, going that route imo is always cheaper than eating meat, fish, fowl or other animal products.
I eat fish once or twice a week and fowl also for health reasons and since I live in a country where a pound of chicken breast cost almost ten dollars, I can feel the difference in my food budget . I can't imagine what people who claim that going vegan is expensive eat, unless it's expensive protein bars all day long and fancy imported fruit.
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I'm not a vegan myself, but that being said I am not a huge meat eater either. A lot of vegan food is actually very yummy! Tofu in particular if you know what to do with it, can be amazing.
I just don't like when vegans (or Christians or ANYBODY for that matter) try to force their ideals on me, or guilt me into being the same way that they are. I just think everyone should respect what people decide is good for their own bodies, seeing as it is THEIR body and not yours.
I am interested in food/recipes in general, be they vegan, meat, or whatever else!0 -
LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »'Fruits, nuts, and some veggies are very expensive. You couldn't eat a healthy vegan diet on a limited, fixed income. Besides which, what if those things don't appeal to you. Would you want to be forced into eating those things based on other people's ethics? '
Thank you for the laugh
Glad to oblige. Tell me: if a pack of boneless, skinless chicken thighs that lasts for seven meals and a bag of walnuts that lasts for two meals costs the same, where did I go wrong?
Do you know how many walnuts I can buy for the $7 a pack of chicken thighs costs? I would be using those walnuts in meals for months!0 -
I've been asked "where do you get your protein????" and "what do you eat then???" both quite annoying! But I'm happy to explain it and people usually understand. Most people for example do not realise there is protein in potatoes and mushrooms.
I think you need to do a lot of research before going vegan. I did and I feel I'm eating correctly and I've never felt better after 5 weeks of being vegan now. If you feel tired or hungry on a vegan diet you are simply not eating enough. If you find getting protein hard you need to eat more protein rich foods, it's not that hard in my opinion.0 -
LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »Tell me: if a pack of boneless, skinless chicken thighs that lasts for seven meals and a bag of walnuts that lasts for two meals costs the same, where did I go wrong?
...because vegans don't just eat nuts? What? Where are you even coming up with this stuff? I'm not even a vegetarian and have read your comments as incredibly confrontational. You come across like your entire family was killed by a pack of radical vegans and now you're on the warpath to destroy veganism from existence. A giant bag of lentils costs way less than any meat and can last a few weeks.
Some people prefer being vegans, some don't, you clearly don't, and you're coming across exactly like the heavy-handed vegans you're talking about. If a particular vegan is preachy and attacks you for your food choices, maybe you should just cut that person out of your life - some people are just jerks, and there are vegans who happen to be jerks.0 -
Ooookay and back to the OP's original question.
So I may get some flack for this, but I haven't really told anyone, I was more curious to see if anyone would figure it out on their own or would even notice. 5 months in of vegan eating (well mostly, I'm still learning and I still make mistakes, theres so much to know!) i've only told my mom because she loves to give me food and I'd hate throwing anything out she gave me. And i've told my dad. Both of them were very supportive and said "good for you!" My mom even decided on her own to cut down on meat and dairy and she lost 4lbs and loved it!
My best friends haven't said a word other than "wow you look like you've lost some weight! Good for you!"
And my coworkers are a bunch of guys from the country so they make fun of my quinoa kale spinach bowls and brown rice ginger veggies bowls I eat for lunch. So many granola munching hippie comments and calling me a rabbit! But they actually started eating better after I did because I made them feel so self conscious about eating mcdonalds and taco bell everyday they felt they should eat better too!
Just goes to show actions really do speak louder than words. Somehow without even opening my mouth I helped start a positive change in people's lives just by being an example. Cool!0 -
I have nothin wrong with veganism. I'm jut a step away myself (vegetarian with no eggs or milk). I like the idea of it, and I'm a huge fan of vegetarianism. It's a lot more sustainable.
The only problem I have with veganism is are the people.
Not all of them!
But they have a pretty large radical side where all meat eaters are apparently hypocritical, unethical, hate the environment and animals, and are too thick headed for their own good.
I mean, what's that hashtag? #goveganordie ?? Not okay.
Most veganism isn't a dietary choice, but a lifestyle choice, which makes it a touchy subject. And the fact that a lot of vegans feed their pets vegan food? Awful. You can eat what you want, but your dog was made to eat meat. Not "veggie burger" meat but "meat" meat. They can eat what they want, but when they try to act like teir diet is better than everyone else's? Hate that.0 -
@LoupGarouTFTs - In general your posts in this thread have annoyed me greatly.
I was vegetarian for a year, the look on my parents face was priceless when I told them that I wasn't eating meat. My brother-in-law commented that at least I wasn't, "One of those crazy vegans."
Living in MN, winter makes being vegetarian very difficult and I eventually caved. I have the utmost respect for vegetarians & vegans that are able to stick with it.
Based on personal experience, I have to disagree that being a vegetarian in the north in winter is difficult (can't speak for veganism). Maybe that's just because I'm so used to it- that it's second nature for me to skim over meats- but pasta, vegetable teryaki, pizza, hashbrowns, burritos... All vegetrian and common in the winter.
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LavenderLeaves wrote: »
... - some people are just jerks
Today you win the internet.
With that said, I'm going to take my meat, veggies, nuts, bread, and ice creams and slowly back out of this train wreck.
You all enjoy your holiday weekend and uh, try not to stroke out over what other people do with their lives.
Can't wait to see all the detox/cleanse posts on Tuesday due to sabotage!
Be safe, have fun, and have a sober ride!0 -
LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »It would be wonderful if vegans could just leave other people alone; however, there have been many legal assaults on farmers and ranchers who provide meat and dairy to people over the recent years, many of which are led by animal right activists--the vast majority of whom are vegans--that endeavor to make meat and dairy less accessible and more expensive. The California egg producers have been greatly impacted by laws that require housing for chickens that makes very little difference in the lives of the chickens, but which reduces the number of eggs produced by the farmers, which raises the price of eggs for everyone. Worse, the producers outside the state that sell eggs in California are also required to have these same standards for their eggs, which means that Californians have no recourse that will make eggs less expensive to them, other than raising their own chickens. (Try *that* in San Francisco or Los Angeles! LOL) If vegans and their cohorts would just make their own decisions affecting themselves and NOT impose their "ethics" on other people, that would be fine. If it were JUST another way of eating, I would not care a bit. It's not. It affects everyone around them. Eat your own food, just keep your "ethics" to yourself and leave the rest of us to enjoy what we will.
Regarding laws on chicken housing, a lot of people, myself included, care about making CAFOs more humane. I don't know the specifics of the law in your example, but as a general principle I am all for regulating CAFOs to make them more humane. And I eat chicken and eggs. So, this is not just a vegan concern.
Now you might counter that we should just leave it up to every individual CAFO owner to decide what is and is not humane, but that's not how civil society works. Our society regulates food production and animal husbandry. If you believe a particular law goes to far, you can work to get it changed. If I believe a particular law doesn't go far enough, I can work to get it changed.
There is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with being a concentrated animal feeding operation (CAFO), as long as the waste is handled properly. ....
I don't know about inherently wrong, but I know there is a lot of suffering at some of these operations, and that's not right in my view.
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I'm had a coworker in a small office a few years back who was vegan and more than a bit strident about it.
I went on my first really successful weightloss plan during that time, and was starting to bring my lunch to work, which tended to be pretty high in animal protein (a lot of chicken usually, about 8oz a meal). After a few weeks, she started to complain that my meat heavy lunches were contaminating the office microwave and that the office needed to get a microwave her use only. She was, of course, denied that. A couple times she even threw out my lunch in the morning until HR told her to quit it. She never stopped grumbling about it, though.
I honestly think, in her case, veganism was just a way for her to establish some superiority and control over others in the office. I think she focused on me in particular because we worked in parallel groups and she felt she was entitled to be my boss, and the food angle was just a means to antagonize me.
I was never so glad to leave a job...
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LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »@LoupGarouTFTs - In general your posts in this thread have annoyed me greatly.
I was vegetarian for a year, the look on my parents face was priceless when I told them that I wasn't eating meat. My brother-in-law commented that at least I wasn't, "One of those crazy vegans."
Living in MN, winter makes being vegetarian very difficult and I eventually caved. I have the utmost respect for vegetarians & vegans that are able to stick with it.
I apologize for annoying you. If MFP had not taken away the block feature, you could block me. Think of how much happier you'd be then. But seriously, maybe you should think about what I'm saying, since NOTHING I have said is untrue.barbecuesauce wrote: »The one thing that annoys me about vegans (and it is also true of those doing restrictive or fad diets): They fail to acknowledge that that way of eating requires extra time that a lot of people do not have (as well as extra money, since I think I would have to start using a lot more protein powder in order to hit my 90-gram minimum).
This just isn't true...
A few years back I wanted to see what it was like to eat strictly vegan for 30 days. I enjoyed it and ended up doing it for 100 days. I ended up stopping because it wasn't for me, however, I was/am glad that I did it and still make quite a few of the recipes today. In that time I found many food items that were extremely quick and easy to eat. To name a few: oats/grains, fruits, veggies, legumes, nuts all are great for you and are quick and easy to use as a base to prepare a meal with. Eating vegan is eating... If you substitute or choose not to add one thing it doesn't really change cooking time too terribly much. If you don't like to cook right now and eat mainly pre-packaged then eating vegan would be tough. If you regularly take time to prepare meals for yourself you would most likely see no difference.
Fruits, nuts, and some veggies are very expensive. You couldn't eat a healthy vegan diet on a limited, fixed income. Besides which, what if those things don't appeal to you. Would you want to be forced into eating those things based on other people's ethics? I do not, personally, find sharing a diet with my goats to be appealing and I sure don't want to have such a diet because eating meat makes other people feel icky.
What??? Beans and rice are cheap, cheap, cheap. So are frozen veggies.
Where do you keep getting this idea that all vegans want to force their way of eating onto everyone? It's no truer than the idea that all omnivores want everyone to eat meat because the people on that paleo website firmly believe every needs to be going paleo and are committed to making it happen.
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I have no reactions to veganism or any other ism until people get all evangelical...which is often the case with people who are this ism or that ism....0
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All groups have their extremists. The anti- carbs/gluten/dairy/ and "exercise how I exercise" people aren't any better/worse than vegans. Some people are going to attempt to put themselves on a pedestal. That doesn't make ALL of them bad.0
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cwolfman13 wrote: »I have no reactions to veganism or any other ism until people get all evangelical...which is often the case with people who are this ism or that ism....thesupremeforce wrote: »All groups have their extremists. The anti- carbs/gluten/dairy/ and "exercise how I exercise" people aren't any better/worse than vegans. Some people are going to attempt to put themselves on a pedestal. That doesn't make ALL of them bad.
Stop it with your sense-making, both of you!!!!
I'm into kitty-ism and puppy-ism. I think kitten and puppy gifs are adorable and should be posted in almost every thread. Radical? Guilty.
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I worked with a woman from India who was a very strict vegetarian (no idea if she was vegan, but I think not .. ), and the only time I even became aware of it was when we were at lunch in the company cafe, and the person preparing the food cut her sandwich using the same knife that had just been used to cut my turkey sandwich - without wiping the knife off in between. She nicely explained her problem and asked that her sandwich be remade. Before that moment I didn't know she was a strict vegetarian.
To be honest, I don't actually know if I know any vegans. Its never come up. And the woman above is my only confirmed vegetarian.
I find the vitriol goes the other way: When I'm out with a group (generally this happens with a group of guys) and order a salad or other non-meat dish, someone will invariably say "Dude, are you not hungry, or are you some kind of vegetarian" with some tone or attitude .. its THESE people who end up getting preached at when they do that to an actual vegetarian.
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