Weight vs form
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I've seen a LOT of people end up being forced out of lifting for months at a time because they made weight a higher priority over form.
It's not a matter of IF you injure yourself with poor form. It's a matter of when. It doesn't matter how strong or experienced you are. If you're doing it wrong, you will injure yourself.0 -
I also think that gains can be made without necessarily increasing more and more weight each week/month etc if you have reached a plateau. Obviously the goal is to keep improving and getting stronger, but adding an extra rep each set, adding an extra set to a routine, reducing rest, adding supersets can also continue with gains even if the weight has stopped incrementally increasing.0
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I think there is a balance... I spent a fair bit of time doing 95lb squats to perfect my form... but that means sheet when you aren't challenging your lift... I'm only now seeing where my form starts to break now that I'm at 135lbs.
If it isn't heavy enough, it's easy to have great form. If it is too heavy, it's easy to hurt yourself. The trick is finding that sweet spot... improve form, and then add more weight.0 -
Quality Over Quantity Right? Obviously You Need Heavier To Gain, But If Your Not Doing It Correctly, It's A Waste0
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BroBroncoski wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »I think there is a balance... I spent a fair bit of time doing 95lb squats to perfect my form... but that means sheet when you aren't challenging your lift... I'm only now seeing where my form starts to break now that I'm at 135lbs.
If it isn't heavy enough, it's easy to have great form. If it is too heavy, it's easy to hurt yourself. The trick is finding that sweet spot... improve form, and then add more weight.
Fuark yea. I make sure my every rep is perfect form but also if its getting easier. I increase few up and repeat
Do you have someone that you work out with? How do you monitor form while you're doing your reps? Is it based on feel? On self videoing and then adjusting?
I workout at home, on my own. I'm still learning, so I take vids... but the problem with that is that the feedback is almost coming too late - too late for me to feel the difference between a good rep and a bad one.
How do you perfect form when you are doing solo lifts?
Also, I don't have proper guards to protect me from a heavy lift fail... at least, not until I build some in (I made my own squat rack / bench kit)... so I'm finding that for squats, I'm not taking to full depth once I hit near fail because I don't know how to get out of a failed lift without hurting myself.
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Both are important. Proper form must be learned first, but in order to improve, weight must be intelligently added over time to support the progressive overload or you're just spinning your wheels. Some people are afraid of adding weight due to fear of breaking form or being ridiculed by the "form police."Also, speed is important slow speed + low weight > high speed and high weight. Yes, you can lift more at a higher speed, but then you're cheating yourself by using momentum to lift the weight, not your actual strength.
It would actually be much more accurate to say something like, lifting a load at high intensity with bad form is less productive than a sub-maximal intensity with a slower tempo and good form. If you lift a load at say 80%+ and you try to use a slow tempo you're gonna have a hell of time getting through the concentric. Heavy loads should definitely be executed with controlled explosiveness during the concentric phase of a lift and within the context of using good form. Even though the bar may actually move slowly due to the load, that doesn't mean the effort used to move the weight was "slow".
Generally speaking lower weight or sub-max intensities use a slower tempo, but the concentric phase is still generally fast, whereas the "slow" (e.g., 4/2/1 tempo) is really in the eccentric and possibly even a pause at the base of the eccentric (e.g., hole of the squat). Though this is not applicable to all, there are modalities of training (i.e. Dynamic Effort or Power Training) that utilizes sub-maximal loads that are moved explosively.0 -
MireyGal76 wrote: »Do you have someone that you work out with? How do you monitor form while you're doing your reps? Is it based on feel? On self videoing and then adjusting?
I workout at home, on my own. I'm still learning, so I take vids... but the problem with that is that the feedback is almost coming too late - too late for me to feel the difference between a good rep and a bad one.
How do you perfect form when you are doing solo lifts?
Also, I don't have proper guards to protect me from a heavy lift fail... at least, not until I build some in (I made my own squat rack / bench kit)... so I'm finding that for squats, I'm not taking to full depth once I hit near fail because I don't know how to get out of a failed lift without hurting myself.
I have a mirror in my garage and also video on occasion for review (like when I make a significant jump in weight). I take note of the mistakes I was making in the video and specifically focus to correct them before I add any more weight.
As far as guards, I'm a firm believer that everyone should know how to safely fail out of any lift they are doing, even if they have a rack. Since you don't, I'd recommend using google and youtube to learn techniques for bailing out of the various lifts safely, then practice each one once or twice with just the bar. I still don't purposefully work to failure, but knowing I can fail without injuring myself allows me to get a lot closer.
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ATG! I see so many curlbros in my gym that half and quarter rep their squats with a heavy weight. Meanwhile, I'm next to them with 75% of that weight leaving butt marks on the lifting platform. And they still think they are stronger. Delusion is a grand thing, ain't it?0
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Form over weight always. Completely hooked on the feeling of smooth reps in the perfect groove. And when I can do it with a good amount of weight, even better.0
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MireyGal76 wrote: »Do you have someone that you work out with? How do you monitor form while you're doing your reps? Is it based on feel? On self videoing and then adjusting?
I workout at home, on my own. I'm still learning, so I take vids... but the problem with that is that the feedback is almost coming too late - too late for me to feel the difference between a good rep and a bad one.
How do you perfect form when you are doing solo lifts?
Also, I don't have proper guards to protect me from a heavy lift fail... at least, not until I build some in (I made my own squat rack / bench kit)... so I'm finding that for squats, I'm not taking to full depth once I hit near fail because I don't know how to get out of a failed lift without hurting myself.
I have a mirror in my garage and also video on occasion for review (like when I make a significant jump in weight). I take note of the mistakes I was making in the video and specifically focus to correct them before I add any more weight.
As far as guards, I'm a firm believer that everyone should know how to safely fail out of any lift they are doing, even if they have a rack. Since you don't, I'd recommend using google and youtube to learn techniques for bailing out of the various lifts safely, then practice each one once or twice with just the bar. I still don't purposefully work to failure, but knowing I can fail without injuring myself allows me to get a lot closer.
Thank you for this!0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Both are important. Proper form must be learned first, but in order to improve, weight must be intelligently added over time to support the progressive overload or you're just spinning your wheels. Some people are afraid of adding weight due to fear of breaking form or being ridiculed by the "form police."Also, speed is important slow speed + low weight > high speed and high weight. Yes, you can lift more at a higher speed, but then you're cheating yourself by using momentum to lift the weight, not your actual strength.
It would actually be much more accurate to say something like, lifting a load at high intensity with bad form is less productive than a sub-maximal intensity with a slower tempo and good form. If you lift a load at say 80%+ and you try to use a slow tempo you're gonna have a hell of time getting through the concentric. Heavy loads should definitely be executed with controlled explosiveness during the concentric phase of a lift and within the context of using good form. Even though the bar may actually move slowly due to the load, that doesn't mean the effort used to move the weight was "slow".
Generally speaking lower weight or sub-max intensities use a slower tempo, but the concentric phase is still generally fast, whereas the "slow" (e.g., 4/2/1 tempo) is really in the eccentric and possibly even a pause at the base of the eccentric (e.g., hole of the squat). Though this is not applicable to all, there are modalities of training (i.e. Dynamic Effort or Power Training) that utilizes sub-maximal loads that are moved explosively.
I agree with this. Even something as simple as barbell curls. If I do ten reps without thinking I can just quickly power through the set (which might look impressive). Now if I try exactly the same weight, but slow the movement down, think about the bicep, squeeze the bicep at the top and slowly lower, I could probably only hit 8 reps of the same weight that I just did. (which looks far from impressive, but will probably improve my gains more).0
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