1 simple way to reduce your diabetes risk
Sabine_Stroehm
Posts: 19,263 Member
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I REposted the blog MYFITNESSPAL highlighted this week.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
The findings
You find a 10.8 year study which took random 7 day menus from people at times for 4 years to paint the whole picture of the dietary patterns for the whole time frame as being solid? What about exercise and lifestyle for the time frame?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I REposted the blog MYFITNESSPAL highlighted this week.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
The findings
You find a 10.8 year study which took random 7 day menus from people at times for 4 years to paint the whole picture of the dietary patterns for the whole time frame as being solid? What about exercise and lifestyle for the time frame?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Yes I know that. I guess the better question is do you consider the findings and the method to be solid evidence?
I didn't "find a 10.8 year old study which took 7 day menus from people... " I'm posting it for discussion. It seems MFP considered it a blog-worthy post.
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I don't put much stock into the mfp blog /articles.0
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Thoughts:
I think the MFP blog isn't great and this didn't change my opinion. For example, it conflates "sugar-sweetened beverages" when the very study it talks about really doesn't support that generalization. It says that drinking calories doesn't lead to satiety but links to a study that in fact seems to say "it depends" (it was an abstract). Moreover, there are additional studies about soda specifically that weren't referenced (which would have supported that aspect of its conclusions if memory serves).
I'm prejudiced against drinking calories and would drop sugary soda if I drank it (although that's easy to say since I don't like it), but despite the fact I dislike sweet coffee I find it hard to imagine that adding a tsp of sugar to some coffee has any ill effects, and the study doesn't seem to suggest otherwise.
My grandfather drank overly sweetened tea (IMO) all his life and never was fat or had diabetes.
All that aside, like I said, I'd probably try to reduce or eliminate sugary soda if I drank it or, in the alternative, at least make sure I counted the calories from it and reduced other sugary things to account for it. (But I assume people here do that.)0 -
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
The study relies on self reported data, which has been repeatedly shown to be inaccurate. It's quite hard to control for potential confounders if your base data is crappy.
Regardless a positive association between T2 and intake of SSBs does not mean reducing intake reduces risk of diabetes0 -
thorsmom01 wrote: »I don't put much stock into the mfp blog /articles.
I like some of their recipes, but they lost me when they pimped coconut oil.
I have no complaints about the app, though.0 -
as a simple advisory to t2 diabetics the article is spot on.
it is simply info any doc would give at start of t2 journey.
diabetes 101 it may be,but may help someone less well informed.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I REposted the blog MYFITNESSPAL highlighted this week.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
The findings
You find a 10.8 year study which took random 7 day menus from people at times for 4 years to paint the whole picture of the dietary patterns for the whole time frame as being solid? What about exercise and lifestyle for the time frame?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Yes I know that. I guess the better question is do you consider the findings and the method to be solid evidence?
I didn't "find a 10.8 year old study which took 7 day menus from people... " I'm posting it for discussion. It seems MFP considered it a blog-worthy post.
Yeah, well.
21% increase in relative risk? Or is it 18% if you read the paper. Or 15%?
Oh wait. We assume it is causal, based on another paper and then we build a model and show it is causal. Based on the assumption. And our model shows that the increase is really 2% more frequency in the population that drinks 20% of their energy. Hmm. What? You say we didn't correct for total energy consumption? Just how fat they are at time x?
Let's go look at the paper on the cohort and study design. Looks like the did a 7 day food dairy. Good, better than 24 hr recall.
And they did a second 7 day food diary. Once. Two data points on frequency of soda drinking.
These did include exercise and a few other lifestyle questions.
But it seems that their model excludes total energy consumed, increase in weight... And is determined causality driven.
Those are big holes.
The study wasn't designed to look at soda - this was tacked on afterwards as an additional analysis, years and years later.
I personally don't drink soda (maybe once every 2 months) - or other sweet drinks. But this would not make me move from soda to orange juice (they saw 0 percent incidence increase with fruit juice).
It does suggest that there are some people in Norfolk with really really bad diets.
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thorsmom01 wrote: »I don't put much stock into the mfp blog /articles.
^This. It always turns out that the people who really know what they're talking about are able to rip holes in what they say.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I don't put much stock into the mfp blog /articles.
^This. It always turns out that the people who really know what they're talking about are able to rip holes in what they say.
Given that they are outsourced and authored by a variety of people about many subjects I take them one by one at face value. They generally aren't something I consider of great value but to be fair, prior performance doesn't guarantee future (poor) performance.
Now, if the article had been about the effects of losing weight and Diabetes ... I might have cheered. But a 1 to 2 % causative prevalence basically means that reducing soda intake isn't going to do squat for the population on MFP. I am assuming that the MFP pop IS trying to get healthier and WILL overall improve general nutrition habits and attempt to reduce total calories consumed. And lose weight. GASP. 3 things you can do to improve disease outcomes.
But it's so much easier to finger point and say - do this one thing, deny yourself soda and you're golden! Meanwhile the person continues to overeat, not exercise and is surprised when the lab results come back with "Sorry, you lose at this lottery". BUT ... BUT ... but I cut out all that soda?!
These types of articles are actually harmful in that they focus on the wrong factors.
So when someone writes:as a simple advisory to t2 diabetics the article is spot on.
it is simply info any doc would give at start of t2 journey.
diabetes 101 it may be,but may help someone less well informed.
No, I have to disagree. While many doctors will give this type of advice to patients (oh, the poor 'less well informed' :huh: - it's your life better get informed - but that's another subject) the two, 2, dos, deux, zwei things one SHOULD focus for managing pre-diabetes are: LOSE THE WEIGHT and EXERCISE A LOT MORE. That's it. Those are the single most effective factors.
If you have a message to give to 'less informed' - it's that. And since it's impossible to lose weight without reducing calorie consumption - secondarily one is forced to look at one diet. But dropping soda isn't a goal - losing weight is. What these articles do is provide a damn poor scapegoat.
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I've seen other (some more recent) studies that showed the same thing. And this recent study --
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/videos/news/Fructose_Glucose_051615.html
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555133
24 healthy people were asked to drink a beverage sweetened with fructose one day and glucose another. Before and after each session, blood samples were taken and the participants rated their hunger level and motivation for food on a scale of 1 to 10. They also underwent brain scans while they were shown images of high-calorie foods. The men and women reported greater appetite after drinking fructose compared with glucose. Their scans also showed more activity in areas of the brain related to food cue reaction in response to the images. When offered a choice between delayed monetary rewards or immediate high-calorie food rewards, participants were more willing to choose food after ingesting fructose.The study authors say these findings suggest fructose may not produce the same feelings of fullness and satisfaction as glucose.
-- makes me wonder if HFCS isn't the problem so many have preached for a while now. Certainly more research is needed, but maybe all sugars aren't created equal, as is commonly preached by others on these forums.
It might also explain why eating apples and pears alone always makes me hungry.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »It might also explain why eating apples and pears alone always makes me hungry.
I've actually been called "insane" by users on another forum for saying this happens to me and my SO swears I'm bs'ing about it (his breakfast consists of one apple and one piece of cheese and he can't understand why I would never make it to noon on that).
I love the two fruits, but I only eat them for taste, not to fill me up. I would love to know why this happens.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I've seen other (some more recent) studies that showed the same thing. And this recent study --
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/videos/news/Fructose_Glucose_051615.html
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555133
24 healthy people were asked to drink a beverage sweetened with fructose one day and glucose another. Before and after each session, blood samples were taken and the participants rated their hunger level and motivation for food on a scale of 1 to 10. They also underwent brain scans while they were shown images of high-calorie foods. The men and women reported greater appetite after drinking fructose compared with glucose. Their scans also showed more activity in areas of the brain related to food cue reaction in response to the images. When offered a choice between delayed monetary rewards or immediate high-calorie food rewards, participants were more willing to choose food after ingesting fructose.The study authors say these findings suggest fructose may not produce the same feelings of fullness and satisfaction as glucose.
-- makes me wonder if HFCS isn't the problem so many have preached for a while now. Certainly more research is needed, but maybe all sugars aren't created equal, as is commonly preached by others on these forums.
It might also explain why eating apples and pears alone always makes me hungry.
How many people are ingesting either 75g of pure fructose or glucose in a single sitting?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I've seen other (some more recent) studies that showed the same thing. And this recent study --
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/videos/news/Fructose_Glucose_051615.html
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555133
24 healthy people were asked to drink a beverage sweetened with fructose one day and glucose another. Before and after each session, blood samples were taken and the participants rated their hunger level and motivation for food on a scale of 1 to 10. They also underwent brain scans while they were shown images of high-calorie foods. The men and women reported greater appetite after drinking fructose compared with glucose. Their scans also showed more activity in areas of the brain related to food cue reaction in response to the images. When offered a choice between delayed monetary rewards or immediate high-calorie food rewards, participants were more willing to choose food after ingesting fructose.The study authors say these findings suggest fructose may not produce the same feelings of fullness and satisfaction as glucose.
-- makes me wonder if HFCS isn't the problem so many have preached for a while now. Certainly more research is needed, but maybe all sugars aren't created equal, as is commonly preached by others on these forums.
It might also explain why eating apples and pears alone always makes me hungry.
How many people are ingesting either 75g of pure fructose or glucose in a single sitting?
I give up. How many?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I've seen other (some more recent) studies that showed the same thing. And this recent study --
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/videos/news/Fructose_Glucose_051615.html
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555133
24 healthy people were asked to drink a beverage sweetened with fructose one day and glucose another. Before and after each session, blood samples were taken and the participants rated their hunger level and motivation for food on a scale of 1 to 10. They also underwent brain scans while they were shown images of high-calorie foods. The men and women reported greater appetite after drinking fructose compared with glucose. Their scans also showed more activity in areas of the brain related to food cue reaction in response to the images. When offered a choice between delayed monetary rewards or immediate high-calorie food rewards, participants were more willing to choose food after ingesting fructose.The study authors say these findings suggest fructose may not produce the same feelings of fullness and satisfaction as glucose.
-- makes me wonder if HFCS isn't the problem so many have preached for a while now. Certainly more research is needed, but maybe all sugars aren't created equal, as is commonly preached by others on these forums.
It might also explain why eating apples and pears alone always makes me hungry.
How many people are ingesting either 75g of pure fructose or glucose in a single sitting?
I give up. How many?
I'm asking you, you're the one who posted the study and felt it was relevant to the discussion0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I've seen other (some more recent) studies that showed the same thing. And this recent study --
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/videos/news/Fructose_Glucose_051615.html
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555133
24 healthy people were asked to drink a beverage sweetened with fructose one day and glucose another. Before and after each session, blood samples were taken and the participants rated their hunger level and motivation for food on a scale of 1 to 10. They also underwent brain scans while they were shown images of high-calorie foods. The men and women reported greater appetite after drinking fructose compared with glucose. Their scans also showed more activity in areas of the brain related to food cue reaction in response to the images. When offered a choice between delayed monetary rewards or immediate high-calorie food rewards, participants were more willing to choose food after ingesting fructose.The study authors say these findings suggest fructose may not produce the same feelings of fullness and satisfaction as glucose.
-- makes me wonder if HFCS isn't the problem so many have preached for a while now. Certainly more research is needed, but maybe all sugars aren't created equal, as is commonly preached by others on these forums.
It might also explain why eating apples and pears alone always makes me hungry.
How many people are ingesting either 75g of pure fructose or glucose in a single sitting?
I give up. How many?
I'm asking you, you're the one who posted the study and felt it was relevant to the discussion
The differences in reactions not the number of people living as if they were in a study.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I've seen other (some more recent) studies that showed the same thing. And this recent study --
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/videos/news/Fructose_Glucose_051615.html
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555133
24 healthy people were asked to drink a beverage sweetened with fructose one day and glucose another. Before and after each session, blood samples were taken and the participants rated their hunger level and motivation for food on a scale of 1 to 10. They also underwent brain scans while they were shown images of high-calorie foods. The men and women reported greater appetite after drinking fructose compared with glucose. Their scans also showed more activity in areas of the brain related to food cue reaction in response to the images. When offered a choice between delayed monetary rewards or immediate high-calorie food rewards, participants were more willing to choose food after ingesting fructose.The study authors say these findings suggest fructose may not produce the same feelings of fullness and satisfaction as glucose.
-- makes me wonder if HFCS isn't the problem so many have preached for a while now. Certainly more research is needed, but maybe all sugars aren't created equal, as is commonly preached by others on these forums.
It might also explain why eating apples and pears alone always makes me hungry.
How many people are ingesting either 75g of pure fructose or glucose in a single sitting?
I give up. How many?
I'm asking you, you're the one who posted the study and felt it was relevant to the discussion
The differences in reactions not the number of people living as if they were in a study.
Except what are the real world implications? Is there a difference in reactions to pure fructose and either HFCS or sucrose, compounds that they might actually ingest that amount?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I've seen other (some more recent) studies that showed the same thing. And this recent study --
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/videos/news/Fructose_Glucose_051615.html
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555133
24 healthy people were asked to drink a beverage sweetened with fructose one day and glucose another. Before and after each session, blood samples were taken and the participants rated their hunger level and motivation for food on a scale of 1 to 10. They also underwent brain scans while they were shown images of high-calorie foods. The men and women reported greater appetite after drinking fructose compared with glucose. Their scans also showed more activity in areas of the brain related to food cue reaction in response to the images. When offered a choice between delayed monetary rewards or immediate high-calorie food rewards, participants were more willing to choose food after ingesting fructose.The study authors say these findings suggest fructose may not produce the same feelings of fullness and satisfaction as glucose.
-- makes me wonder if HFCS isn't the problem so many have preached for a while now. Certainly more research is needed, but maybe all sugars aren't created equal, as is commonly preached by others on these forums.
It might also explain why eating apples and pears alone always makes me hungry.
How many people are ingesting either 75g of pure fructose or glucose in a single sitting?
I give up. How many?
I'm asking you, you're the one who posted the study and felt it was relevant to the discussion
The differences in reactions not the number of people living as if they were in a study.
Except what are the real world implications? Is there a difference in reactions to pure fructose and either HFCS or sucrose, compounds that they might actually ingest that amount?
There are rarely real world applications to one study, other than the need for further study.
I don't understand your second question. That who might actually ingest what amount?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I've seen other (some more recent) studies that showed the same thing. And this recent study --
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/videos/news/Fructose_Glucose_051615.html
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555133
24 healthy people were asked to drink a beverage sweetened with fructose one day and glucose another. Before and after each session, blood samples were taken and the participants rated their hunger level and motivation for food on a scale of 1 to 10. They also underwent brain scans while they were shown images of high-calorie foods. The men and women reported greater appetite after drinking fructose compared with glucose. Their scans also showed more activity in areas of the brain related to food cue reaction in response to the images. When offered a choice between delayed monetary rewards or immediate high-calorie food rewards, participants were more willing to choose food after ingesting fructose.The study authors say these findings suggest fructose may not produce the same feelings of fullness and satisfaction as glucose.
-- makes me wonder if HFCS isn't the problem so many have preached for a while now. Certainly more research is needed, but maybe all sugars aren't created equal, as is commonly preached by others on these forums.
It might also explain why eating apples and pears alone always makes me hungry.
How many people are ingesting either 75g of pure fructose or glucose in a single sitting?
I give up. How many?
I'm asking you, you're the one who posted the study and felt it was relevant to the discussion
The differences in reactions not the number of people living as if they were in a study.
Except what are the real world implications? Is there a difference in reactions to pure fructose and either HFCS or sucrose, compounds that they might actually ingest that amount?
There are rarely real world applications to one study, other than the need for further study.
I don't understand your second question. That who might actually ingest what amount?
The study used pure fructose and glucose in dosages of 75g, perhaps the differences between the two aren't significantly different if they used a real amount dosage. Regardless the point is moot as most aren't ingesting pure fructose or glucose in any meaningful amounts0
This discussion has been closed.
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