Body fat % scale accuracy?
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Muscles become more efficient and yes you can have major strength gains without gaining muscle mass0
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drewlamonte wrote: »Are you new to lifting because you won't really be gaining muscle mass in a defecit
And none if the scales can be believed as absolute numbers ...but you can use them to track relative progress over months
Well done on your progress
Also are you serious that you don't think you can gain muscle when operating under a deficit? That's entirely wrong from what I've read. The main important thing to gaining muscle is eating the correct macro setup, AND just as important, giving your body sufficient recovery time.
Some people think that to gain muscle, you need to basically fatten up while lifting heavy, but that's a very extreme way of going about it in my opinion.
Yes I'm serious, apart from some outliers such as noobs and teenage boys it is very difficult to gain muscle mass in a calorie defecit. You can certainly gain strength though
If you're thinking of recomposition then you would be eating near or close to maintenance as you follow your progressive lifting programme and that again would take a long time
The "some people" you refer to are talking of bulking and cutting cycles which is a very standard way of going about it
Anyway you're clearly on the right path, losing body fat and lifting to preserve LBM whilst eating in a defecit and ensuring you hit your protein and fat macros as minimums
Dumb question, cause I feel like this is happening to me as well.
Could losing weight from being initially very overweight allow you to gain significant muscle mass?
I'm now about 60lbs overweight, it's mostly fat, if I eat at a deficit I'm gonna burn that fat to make up for it, so why wouldn't some of that energy go to building muscle mass as well (assuming you are consuming enough protein).
I can tell my muscles are former, but being female I'm not likely to get bigger. So, hypothesis: solid or blech?0 -
drewlamonte wrote: »Are you new to lifting because you won't really be gaining muscle mass in a defecit
And none if the scales can be believed as absolute numbers ...but you can use them to track relative progress over months
Well done on your progress
Also are you serious that you don't think you can gain muscle when operating under a deficit? That's entirely wrong from what I've read. The main important thing to gaining muscle is eating the correct macro setup, AND just as important, giving your body sufficient recovery time.
Some people think that to gain muscle, you need to basically fatten up while lifting heavy, but that's a very extreme way of going about it in my opinion.
Yes I'm serious, apart from some outliers such as noobs and teenage boys it is very difficult to gain muscle mass in a calorie defecit. You can certainly gain strength though
If you're thinking of recomposition then you would be eating near or close to maintenance as you follow your progressive lifting programme and that again would take a long time
The "some people" you refer to are talking of bulking and cutting cycles which is a very standard way of going about it
Anyway you're clearly on the right path, losing body fat and lifting to preserve LBM whilst eating in a defecit and ensuring you hit your protein and fat macros as minimums
Thanks. I admit, my goals in this whole weight loss/muscle building regiment that I have embarked on are to slim down, and tone up.
But I've definitely gotten stronger. I don't want to add muscle mass. I have too much muscle already on my body from benching and doing shoulder press in high school. I actually wouldn't mind losing muscle.
The main reason I'm lifting fairly heavy, is because it's really been what has ignited my body into losing weight. Probably because of increase in resting metabolic rate.
I used to only do cardio, and would basically never lose weight, unless I ate about 1200 calories a day, aka starving myself.
I think the lifting weights path is better.
It was just quite strange that my stupid scale's body fat percentage reading never changes, even in losing 25 lbs. I'll just say it's inaccurate, unless I've really lost muscle, which sure isn't how I feel or how the tightness of my shirts feel.
Thanks.0 -
Muscles become more efficient and yes you can have major strength gains without gaining muscle mass
Great :-). That's what I'm going for. Someone else can have some of my muscle. Would like my shirts to fit for once instead of being super tight up top, and super loose around mid section (due to V-shape).0 -
Here's a point of comparison. I've been doing tape measure calculations since 5/6. I also have my scale logs (Eat Smart) for the same period. I'm using the average of Navy, YMCA, and Modified YMCA calculations here.
5/6: Tape 36.7% Scale 29.7%
6/7: Tape 33.4% Scale 27.8%
Delta: Tape -3.3% Scale -1.9%
The tape measurement for 5/6 is probably inflated. For some reason my waist measurement seems higher than it should have been on that day, but I don't have enough datapoints yet to smooth it all out.
Either way, both show the trend in the right direction for me. When I get some time I might go do the hydrostatic test and see if I can get a "correction factor" to put into this data.
At least it's decreasing for you rather than showing no change.0 -
drewlamonte wrote: »Here's a point of comparison. I've been doing tape measure calculations since 5/6. I also have my scale logs (Eat Smart) for the same period. I'm using the average of Navy, YMCA, and Modified YMCA calculations here.
5/6: Tape 36.7% Scale 29.7%
6/7: Tape 33.4% Scale 27.8%
Delta: Tape -3.3% Scale -1.9%
The tape measurement for 5/6 is probably inflated. For some reason my waist measurement seems higher than it should have been on that day, but I don't have enough datapoints yet to smooth it all out.
Either way, both show the trend in the right direction for me. When I get some time I might go do the hydrostatic test and see if I can get a "correction factor" to put into this data.
At least it's decreasing for you rather than showing no change.
Taylor scales tend to be on the low end, at least the models they sell through the big box stores. Eat Smart has some good ones. Fitbit and Withings have some that are well rated. Maybe it's time to get a new one.0 -
drewlamonte wrote: »All consumer scale bioimpedance readings are inaccurate. The best you can hope for is that they're at least consistently inaccurate, so that you can look for a trend over time.
You can get a cheap body tape measure or caliper and use some simple calculations to give a different estimate. These are also inaccurate, but I use the body tape once a week and three of the common formulas (Navy, YMCA, Modified YMCA). Excel makes that very easy. Again, inaccurate, but they tend to trend well.
My Eat Smart scale also has a BF% function, it trends about 5% lower than the body tape calculations.
There are bioimpedance scales made for clinical settings that are more accurate, but they still can't match hydrostatic or DEXA scans for accuracy.
I understand consistently inaccurate, although mine simply seems locked no matter what. For example, when I was 268 lbs, my body fat percentage was slightly over 23%. Now that I weigh 242 lbs, my body fat percentage is about 22.5%, eventhough I've lost inches, and visually see MUCH less fat on my body.
Pretty sure I've lost more than 1% body fat LOL.
I think it's just a hoax. Just wanted to see what others on here thought. I also have a feeling that "body type" plays a role.
Lets assume the scale is accurate, you started with LBM of 205lbs, now your scale is saying LBM of 188 lbs, according to that you actually lost 17lbs of lbm (a large % of which is muscle) and only 8lbs of fat, you better hope the scale is wrong!!!
As for shirts fitting tighter, that could be due to the "pump" from working out as water gets stored in the muscle to repair and protect them.0 -
drewlamonte wrote: »Muscles become more efficient and yes you can have major strength gains without gaining muscle mass
Great :-). That's what I'm going for. Someone else can have some of my muscle. Would like my shirts to fit for once instead of being super tight up top, and super loose around mid section (due to V-shape).
I have that same issue and would rather tight up top and lose in the middle than the opposite.0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571?dopt=Abstract&holding=f1000,f1000m,isrctn
I'm under the impression that if the deficit is low enough, even trained athletes can lose weight while increasing lean body mass.
That said, I'd agree there are ways to increase lifts without gaining muscle, usually either better recruitment, or some level of CNS adaptation.
Also, when you say you've been lifting, do you mean in the long past, or before the recent change in mass?
I can't picture body fat percentage for 6'1" off the top of my head, but at 267, there should be the body fat there that gaining muscle while losing fat is possible.0 -
Alternatively, what are only your shirts getting tighter? Are you laundrying them separate from pants, and doing anything that might shrink them?
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571?dopt=Abstract&holding=f1000,f1000m,isrctn
I'm under the impression that if the deficit is low enough, even trained athletes can lose weight while increasing lean body mass.
That said, I'd agree there are ways to increase lifts without gaining muscle, usually either better recruitment, or some level of CNS adaptation.
Also, when you say you've been lifting, do you mean in the long past, or before the recent change in mass?
I can't picture body fat percentage for 6'1" off the top of my head, but at 267, there should be the body fat there that gaining muscle while losing fat is possible.
@25% BF% is it should be possible to put on a small amount of muscle while in a deficit, once BF% gets to the upper teens it would be much less likely to occur.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571?dopt=Abstract&holding=f1000,f1000m,isrctn
I'm under the impression that if the deficit is low enough, even trained athletes can lose weight while increasing lean body mass.
That said, I'd agree there are ways to increase lifts without gaining muscle, usually either better recruitment, or some level of CNS adaptation.
Also, when you say you've been lifting, do you mean in the long past, or before the recent change in mass?
I can't picture body fat percentage for 6'1" off the top of my head, but at 267, there should be the body fat there that gaining muscle while losing fat is possible.
@25% BF% is it should be possible to put on a small amount of muscle while in a deficit, once BF% gets to the upper teens it would be much less likely to occur.
Yeah, above 25% is about what I've seen claimed, but thinking in terms of weight for a 6'1" person is completely alien to me, unfortunately.0 -
Even if your body fat % doesn't change, that doesn't mean you aren't losing fat. eg a 200lbs man has 23% body fat, he then loses 60lbs (now 140lbs) but his body fat % stays the same. If you do the calculations, before the weight loss he was carrying 46lbs of fat and after the weight loss he now carries 32lbs of fat. That's a difference of 14lbs of pure fat even though his BF% stayed the same.0
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crazyjerseygirl wrote: »drewlamonte wrote: »Are you new to lifting because you won't really be gaining muscle mass in a defecit
And none if the scales can be believed as absolute numbers ...but you can use them to track relative progress over months
Well done on your progress
Also are you serious that you don't think you can gain muscle when operating under a deficit? That's entirely wrong from what I've read. The main important thing to gaining muscle is eating the correct macro setup, AND just as important, giving your body sufficient recovery time.
Some people think that to gain muscle, you need to basically fatten up while lifting heavy, but that's a very extreme way of going about it in my opinion.
Yes I'm serious, apart from some outliers such as noobs and teenage boys it is very difficult to gain muscle mass in a calorie defecit. You can certainly gain strength though
If you're thinking of recomposition then you would be eating near or close to maintenance as you follow your progressive lifting programme and that again would take a long time
The "some people" you refer to are talking of bulking and cutting cycles which is a very standard way of going about it
Anyway you're clearly on the right path, losing body fat and lifting to preserve LBM whilst eating in a defecit and ensuring you hit your protein and fat macros as minimums
Dumb question, cause I feel like this is happening to me as well.
Could losing weight from being initially very overweight allow you to gain significant muscle mass?
I'm now about 60lbs overweight, it's mostly fat, if I eat at a deficit I'm gonna burn that fat to make up for it, so why wouldn't some of that energy go to building muscle mass as well (assuming you are consuming enough protein).
I can tell my muscles are former, but being female I'm not likely to get bigger. So, hypothesis: solid or blech?
There are a few factors here:
1. As a female, you're probably not looking for the same "bulky" type of muscle mass gains this post is about.
2. Without getting into the science of it, your body would prefer to consume it's own muscles to consuming fat stores, so you're working out while consuming at a deficit is largely just helping you maintain the muscle you have and forcing your body to learn how to burn its fat stores instead of muscle.
3. Don't assume you CAN'T get bigger muscles because you're female. It certainly can be done, but it's probably not your goal and most fitness for women is geared toward being leaner not bulkier.
That being said, just because you may not gain significant muscles mass doesn't mean you cannot gain significant muscle STRENGTH, tone and flexibility. Keep on lifting @crazyjerseygirl!!!0 -
Well, I dunno if my maths are correct but if you weighed 265crazyjerseygirl wrote: »drewlamonte wrote: »Are you new to lifting because you won't really be gaining muscle mass in a defecit
And none if the scales can be believed as absolute numbers ...but you can use them to track relative progress over months
Well done on your progress
Also are you serious that you don't think you can gain muscle when operating under a deficit? That's entirely wrong from what I've read. The main important thing to gaining muscle is eating the correct macro setup, AND just as important, giving your body sufficient recovery time.
Some people think that to gain muscle, you need to basically fatten up while lifting heavy, but that's a very extreme way of going about it in my opinion.
Yes I'm serious, apart from some outliers such as noobs and teenage boys it is very difficult to gain muscle mass in a calorie defecit. You can certainly gain strength though
If you're thinking of recomposition then you would be eating near or close to maintenance as you follow your progressive lifting programme and that again would take a long time
The "some people" you refer to are talking of bulking and cutting cycles which is a very standard way of going about it
Anyway you're clearly on the right path, losing body fat and lifting to preserve LBM whilst eating in a defecit and ensuring you hit your protein and fat macros as minimums
Dumb question, cause I feel like this is happening to me as well.
Could losing weight from being initially very overweight allow you to gain significant muscle mass?
I'm now about 60lbs overweight, it's mostly fat, if I eat at a deficit I'm gonna burn that fat to make up for it, so why wouldn't some of that energy go to building muscle mass as well (assuming you are consuming enough protein).
I can tell my muscles are former, but being female I'm not likely to get bigger. So, hypothesis: solid or blech?
There are a few factors here:
1. As a female, you're probably not looking for the same "bulky" type of muscle mass gains this post is about.
2. Without getting into the science of it, your body would prefer to consume it's own muscles to consuming fat stores, so you're working out while consuming at a deficit is largely just helping you maintain the muscle you have and forcing your body to learn how to burn its fat stores instead of muscle.
3. Don't assume you CAN'T get bigger muscles because you're female. It certainly can be done, but it's probably not your goal and most fitness for women is geared toward being leaner not bulkier.
That being said, just because you may not gain significant muscles mass doesn't mean you cannot gain significant muscle STRENGTH, tone and flexibility. Keep on lifting @crazyjerseygirl!!!
Thanks! You are correct, I'm not aing to bulk up, I was more wondering out loud if muscle could be built under those circumstances (perhaps in a man?)
The lifting is great though. I'm still small lifting but getting there. Strength increases are amazing!0 -
Even if your body fat % doesn't change, that doesn't mean you aren't losing fat. eg a 200lbs man has 23% body fat, he then loses 60lbs (now 140lbs) but his body fat % stays the same. If you do the calculations, before the weight loss he was carrying 46lbs of fat and after the weight loss he now carries 32lbs of fat. That's a difference of 14lbs of pure fat even though his BF% stayed the same.
Hmmm, that's true. I also took middle school math. But it's seems almost impossible to me that the majority of my 25 lbs weight loss has been muscle, due to the visual size of my muscles.
My shirts are tighter probably due to the "pump" or whatever from lifting.
If 18 lbs of the 25 lbs I've lost was muscle, I would assume there would be no way possible that I would be feeling all pumped up, shirts tight and stuff.
Unless the muscle I lost (if I did lose muscle), was only in my thighs for example.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571?dopt=Abstract&holding=f1000,f1000m,isrctn
I'm under the impression that if the deficit is low enough, even trained athletes can lose weight while increasing lean body mass.
That said, I'd agree there are ways to increase lifts without gaining muscle, usually either better recruitment, or some level of CNS adaptation.
Also, when you say you've been lifting, do you mean in the long past, or before the recent change in mass?
I can't picture body fat percentage for 6'1" off the top of my head, but at 267, there should be the body fat there that gaining muscle while losing fat is possible.
@25% BF% is it should be possible to put on a small amount of muscle while in a deficit, once BF% gets to the upper teens it would be much less likely to occur.
Yeah, above 25% is about what I've seen claimed, but thinking in terms of weight for a 6'1" person is completely alien to me, unfortunately.
That could be possible for me then, in that I was actually building muscle during the first month and a half of my regiment, even while eating under a deficit.
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My scale tells me that my body fat percentage is 34.8. Looking at myself I know that is is terribly inaccurate. Hand held body fat thingy at the gym I go to told me my body fat percentage is 19.8. I am sure that neither one of them are 100% accurate, however I do believe one of them is much closer than the other.0
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According to my scale, this is what it looks like to lose 19 pounds of muscle, and 6 pounds of fat (25 lbs total).
Before: 267ish lbs, ~23% body fat shown on scale
After: 242ish lbs, ~22% body fat shown on scale
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