keto low carb refeed question
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Alex I've been wanting to know this as well! Some have said that they can have a carb refeed and never leave ketosis, but how can that be possible IMO.
I'm in day 4 of keto and absolutely love it! Totally blunts my appetite and I don't feel tired at all. In fact, when I eat carbs I feel sleepy and it doesn't help my performance at all.
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
I would argue that there is no such thing as adapting to using fat as an energy source. Your body uses whatever energy you provide it for fuel, and then goes into catabolism only if there is a caloric deficit, unless you don't agree with CICO theory. Bodyfat scales are notoriously inaccurate, especially if you are manipulating water retention by going into keto. I have been in keto (<25 g C/day) for extended periods of time, as well as tried several flavors of cyclical ketogenic diets. Coming in and out of keto produces a large change of glycogen levels, and therefore large changes in water retention. After adjusting for water weight loss, my rate of body fat loss on a moderate diet was the same as my rate of body fat loss on keto, because I used the same CICO level on both diets.
There are 3 benefits to a refeed or overfeed: psychological break from sustained deficit, leptin increase, and glycogen refill. The psychological break can come from enjoying any food you want, so overfeeding on any macro is ok. The leptin increase and glycogen refill can only come from overfeeding carbs. Fats and Protein don't have the same effect. There are some studies out there showing this, but I don't have the time to search for them now. Furthermore, your leptin levels won't be very low until you get down to about 12% bodyfat, and only stay elevated for a short time after a refeed. If you are looking to fix metabolic adaptation, it is going to take more than that to raise your BMR, and you would need to reverse diet into maintenance for a week or 2.
good answer, nice to hear your experiences/knowledge on keto
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
El oh el. MOST people use glucose and insulin efficiently… So a blood sugar and insulin spike doesn't apply in that case.0 -
Interesting. I will experiment if and when i plateaucdn_beaver wrote: »I've been eating keto for coming up on three years and have lost about 115lbs. Over this time I've found two ways of making the scale drop when it's been slow moving. One is after having a very large, high calorie meal (1800) even after consuming about 600 calories during the day which puts me over my normal calories by about 1000. It usually involves a large rib-eye steak with gorgonzola butter and some red wine. Another way has been eating very high fat (fat fasts work too) for most of the day and then consuming my daily protein with dinner.
On a side note though fat cells suck in water when they lose the fat because they want to remain the same size. It can take awhile before they let go of the water and whoosh, you're a couple pounds lighter. So maybe eating mostly fat during the day makes my body let go of the water. well done on your weight loss!
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It only takes a quick google search. I have read contradicting evidence. On the flip side, carbs are meant to be muscle sparing. .AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
it wasnt meant to be, but yeah apparently low carb can be muscle sparing.AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
Wow. That seems like a pretty aggressive response when someone asked you for the research the stuff you were just spouting. And that's from a low carber.
I have heard things that being low carb can help reduce the amount of lean muscle lost since the body is in the fat burning state, but I haven't done a search to see if that is a legit claim. And I also heard that confusing your body is important to not go into starvation mode and now I know that's a bunch of bunk. There are a lot of theories out there that turn into being nothing more than wishes, not facts.
I am sure you won't answer, but I'd love to see the research/science on that.
I just read an article that said the opposite. It wasn't research or science. It was on a body building site, but made an opposite statement.First off, stores of glycogen (stored glucose from carbohydrates) inside your muscle tissue and liver are compromised when your food intake is too low in dietary carbohydrates. And with low stores of glycogen, it is difficult for your muscles to exert the sustained, high intensity effort required to lift weights. That means your strength gets compromised. When that happens, your training poundages go down and there is less muscle stimulation, which sets you up for muscle loss. After all, your body never keeps what it doesn’t need.
i only said research about it? As carbs can have that effect.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
El oh el. MOST people use glucose and insulin efficiently… So a blood sugar and insulin spike doesn't apply in that case.
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dietary fat will be used first as the body will at least burn the calories you eat. The deficit you create from what you eat and what your burn will determine the fat loss. Unless anyone can better explain it?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
No need to get hostile.
Sorry but you have claimed to of tried a keto diet, yet you think its 60g and under carbs(under 30 optimal) and you dont understand it's principles
Then you'd know the carbohydrate range varies from 20-100g of carbs as slipping into a state of ketosis is different for everybody. And yes, I do understand it's principles.
You lower your carbohydrate intake to a level where you are in ketosis, i.e 60g carbohydrates.
You have a moderate protein intake to prevent yourself from slipping into a state of gluconeogenesis (I'm still reading up on this, but I reckon it takes a lot of protein for this to happen).
You increase your fat intake, as this is supposedly what is used for fuel instead of carbohydrates as well as to keep yourself satiated. But then, you weren't clear on whether body fat or dietary fat was used for fuel when you become 'fat adapted'. A
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
dietary fat will be used first as the body will at least burn the calories you eat. The deficit you create from what you eat and what your burn will determine the fat loss. Unless anyone can better explain it?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
No need to get hostile.
Sorry but you have claimed to of tried a keto diet, yet you think its 60g and under carbs(under 30 optimal) and you dont understand it's principles
Then you'd know the carbohydrate range varies from 20-100g of carbs as slipping into a state of ketosis is different for everybody. And yes, I do understand it's principles.
You lower your carbohydrate intake to a level where you are in ketosis, i.e 60g carbohydrates.
You have a moderate protein intake to prevent yourself from slipping into a state of gluconeogenesis (I'm still reading up on this, but I reckon it takes a lot of protein for this to happen).
You increase your fat intake, as this is supposedly what is used for fuel instead of carbohydrates as well as to keep yourself satiated. But then, you weren't clear on whether body fat or dietary fat was used for fuel when you become 'fat adapted'. AAlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
Right, I totally understand the caloric deficit thing. I just don't get why low carbing would give you bigger fat loss if the caloric deficit is the same? If your body uses dietary fat?0 -
good to hear someone else has the same query. I believe someone above partially answered my question by saying "The leptin increase and glycogen refill can only come from overfeeding carbs."pennystaplessnyder wrote: »Alex I've been wanting to know this as well! Some have said that they can have a carb refeed and never leave ketosis, but how can that be possible IMO.
I'm in day 4 of keto and absolutely love it! Totally blunts my appetite and I don't feel tired at all. In fact, when I eat carbs I feel sleepy and it doesn't help my performance at all.
I also dont know how one can carb refeed (fill glycogen stores) and still stay in ketosis?
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Right, "Ketosis has a protein-sparing effect, assuming that you are consuming adequate quantities of protein and calories—0.7 grams per pound of body weight per day—in the first place.1 Once in ketosis, the body actually prefers ketones to glucose. Since the body has copious quantities of fat, this means there is no need to oxidize protein to generate glucose through gluconeogenesis."That's what I thought.
I generally am pretty suspect of those who hide their research under a rock.
Theres some information i thought of when making my point. As i said previously, people should do there own research and decide themselves on whether they believe or refute the idea. The internet is full of contradictory information
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
good to hear someone else has the same query. I believe someone above partially answered my question by saying "The leptin increase and glycogen refill can only come from overfeeding carbs."pennystaplessnyder wrote: »Alex I've been wanting to know this as well! Some have said that they can have a carb refeed and never leave ketosis, but how can that be possible IMO.
I'm in day 4 of keto and absolutely love it! Totally blunts my appetite and I don't feel tired at all. In fact, when I eat carbs I feel sleepy and it doesn't help my performance at all.
I also dont know how one can carb refeed (fill glycogen stores) and still stay in ketosis?
Well if you understood the principles of ketosis and a ketogenic diet, then you'd know you can't stay in ketosis whilst refeeding large amounts of carbohydrates.
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Ofc he has no research. He's fell for the bro-science stuff with keto diets. It was evident when I was questioning him on the first page about CICO vs low carb and 'fat adaption'.Sure. I have no idea where you got that info from or how flawed the research might be that spawned it.
I get it. You don't have research. You just believe something to be true. Cool. You are like everyone else on the internet. Good day sir.AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
Right, "Ketosis has a protein-sparing effect, assuming that you are consuming adequate quantities of protein and calories—0.7 grams per pound of body weight per day—in the first place.1 Once in ketosis, the body actually prefers ketones to glucose. Since the body has copious quantities of fat, this means there is no need to oxidize protein to generate glucose through gluconeogenesis."That's what I thought.
I generally am pretty suspect of those who hide their research under a rock.
Theres some information i thought of when making my point. As i said previously, people should do there own research and decide themselves on whether they believe or refute the idea. The internet is full of contradictory information
0 -
if your body is forced to use the dietary fat from food as its main energy source it begins to become fat adapted right. Well after it has consumed and used all energy from food, it will look to use another source of energy. Because a keto dietor will be fat adapted because the bodys using dietary fat for energy, it is more readily able to then burn stored body fat as energy. However a high carbers body will first use carbs(from foo as energy, then deplete glycogen stores and even then there bodys arent adapted well to burning fat as energy = could account for lower levels of fat loss(not weight loss as this can be muscle)IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
dietary fat will be used first as the body will at least burn the calories you eat. The deficit you create from what you eat and what your burn will determine the fat loss. Unless anyone can better explain it?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
No need to get hostile.
Sorry but you have claimed to of tried a keto diet, yet you think its 60g and under carbs(under 30 optimal) and you dont understand it's principles
Then you'd know the carbohydrate range varies from 20-100g of carbs as slipping into a state of ketosis is different for everybody. And yes, I do understand it's principles.
You lower your carbohydrate intake to a level where you are in ketosis, i.e 60g carbohydrates.
You have a moderate protein intake to prevent yourself from slipping into a state of gluconeogenesis (I'm still reading up on this, but I reckon it takes a lot of protein for this to happen).
You increase your fat intake, as this is supposedly what is used for fuel instead of carbohydrates as well as to keep yourself satiated. But then, you weren't clear on whether body fat or dietary fat was used for fuel when you become 'fat adapted'. AAlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
Right, I totally understand the caloric deficit thing. I just don't get why low carbing would give you bigger fat loss if the caloric deficit is the
same? If your body uses dietary fat?
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I said i dont know how one could possibly stay in ketosis during a reefed. I was agreeing with the person i quoted saying that i had no idea how it would be possible. .IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
good to hear someone else has the same query. I believe someone above partially answered my question by saying "The leptin increase and glycogen refill can only come from overfeeding carbs."pennystaplessnyder wrote: »Alex I've been wanting to know this as well! Some have said that they can have a carb refeed and never leave ketosis, but how can that be possible IMO.
I'm in day 4 of keto and absolutely love it! Totally blunts my appetite and I don't feel tired at all. In fact, when I eat carbs I feel sleepy and it doesn't help my performance at all.
I also dont know how one can carb refeed (fill glycogen stores) and still stay in ketosis?
Well if you understood the principles of ketosis and a ketogenic diet, then you'd know you can't stay in ketosis whilst refeeding large amounts of carbohydrates.
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if your body is forced to use the dietary fat from food as its main energy source it begins to become fat adapted right. Well after it has consumed and used all energy from food, it will look to use another source of energy. Because a keto dietor will be fat adapted because the bodys using dietary fat for energy, it is more readily able to then burn stored body fat as energy. However a high carbers body will first use carbs(from foo as energy, then deplete glycogen stores and even then there bodys arent adapted well to burning fat as energy = could account for lower levels of fat loss(not weight loss as this can be muscle)IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
dietary fat will be used first as the body will at least burn the calories you eat. The deficit you create from what you eat and what your burn will determine the fat loss. Unless anyone can better explain it?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
No need to get hostile.
Sorry but you have claimed to of tried a keto diet, yet you think its 60g and under carbs(under 30 optimal) and you dont understand it's principles
Then you'd know the carbohydrate range varies from 20-100g of carbs as slipping into a state of ketosis is different for everybody. And yes, I do understand it's principles.
You lower your carbohydrate intake to a level where you are in ketosis, i.e 60g carbohydrates.
You have a moderate protein intake to prevent yourself from slipping into a state of gluconeogenesis (I'm still reading up on this, but I reckon it takes a lot of protein for this to happen).
You increase your fat intake, as this is supposedly what is used for fuel instead of carbohydrates as well as to keep yourself satiated. But then, you weren't clear on whether body fat or dietary fat was used for fuel when you become 'fat adapted'. AAlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
Right, I totally understand the caloric deficit thing. I just don't get why low carbing would give you bigger fat loss if the caloric deficit is the
same? If your body uses dietary fat?
OP the thing you're forgetting is that the body uses fat and carbohydrates as energy whether you're low carbing or not. It even uses protein in dire situations. But think about this, if it was fat adapted, that means there'd have to be 0 carbohydrates coming in, otherwise it'd try and use those 30g of carbs you get daily on a keto diet?
You literally have no idea what you're talking about.0 -
To be fair, you can find legitimate evidence for both sides because we're not all robot people whose bodies lose weight the same way. Just because he's not posting research and evidence that you deem legitimate does not mean that keto doesn't work for everyone.0
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I didnt say it was right, or if i was right. I said its -apparently- got a muscle sparing quality.Sure. I have no idea where you got that info from or how flawed the research might be that spawned it.
I get it. You don't have research. You just believe something to be true. Cool. You are like everyone else on the internet. Good day sir.
Once again, do your own research, im not saying mines right http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/keto.htm
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
I didnt say it was right, or if i was right. I said its -apparently- got a muscle sparing quality.Sure. I have no idea where you got that info from or how flawed the research might be that spawned it.
I get it. You don't have research. You just believe something to be true. Cool. You are like everyone else on the internet. Good day sir.
Once again, do your own research, im not saying mines right http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/keto.htm
That is heavily ironic seeing as you just called @shell1005 something pretty rude.0 -
How low carb are you doing and for how long have you consistently kept your 'low' carbing?IsaackGMOON wrote: »
Ofc he has no research. He's fell for the bro-science stuff with keto diets. It was evident when I was questioning him on the first page about CICO vs low carb and 'fat adaption'.Sure. I have no idea where you got that info from or how flawed the research might be that spawned it.
I get it. You don't have research. You just believe something to be true. Cool. You are like everyone else on the internet. Good day sir.
Seems so. I do low carb, but I don't think it does anything magic except for helping me get the easiest way possible to a CICO deficit.
I always am asking people for their research or where their beliefs come from though. It's for a couple reasons. I want to see if the belief behind someone's diet is based in science and where that science came from. Secondly, I am interested in learning. I can't believe the wonky, bunk science stuff I used to believe. The internet is just spewing with the sludge.
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[/quote]
Ofc he has no research. He's fell for the bro-science stuff with keto diets. It was evident when I was questioning him on the first page about CICO vs low carb and 'fat adaption'.AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
Right, "Ketosis has a protein-sparing effect, assuming that you are consuming adequate quantities of protein and calories—0.7 grams per pound of body weight per day—in the first place.1 Once in ketosis, the body actually prefers ketones to glucose. Since the body has copious quantities of fat, this means there is no need to oxidize protein to generate glucose through gluconeogenesis."That's what I thought.
I generally am pretty suspect of those who hide their research under a rock.
Theres some information i thought of when making my point. As i said previously, people should do there own research and decide themselves on whether they believe or refute the idea. The internet is full of contradictory information
[/quote]
the body uses fat not very well in the presense of carbs. Do you know what you are talking about? You can be fat adapted and have minimal carb intake? What happens when the small amount of carbs are used up quickly?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if your body is forced to use the dietary fat from food as its main energy source it begins to become fat adapted right. Well after it has consumed and used all energy from food, it will look to use another source of energy. Because a keto dietor will be fat adapted because the bodys using dietary fat for energy, it is more readily able to then burn stored body fat as energy. However a high carbers body will first use carbs(from foo as energy, then deplete glycogen stores and even then there bodys arent adapted well to burning fat as energy = could account for lower levels of fat loss(not weight loss as this can be muscle)IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
dietary fat will be used first as the body will at least burn the calories you eat. The deficit you create from what you eat and what your burn will determine the fat loss. Unless anyone can better explain it?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
No need to get hostile.
Sorry but you have claimed to of tried a keto diet, yet you think its 60g and under carbs(under 30 optimal) and you dont understand it's principles
Then you'd know the carbohydrate range varies from 20-100g of carbs as slipping into a state of ketosis is different for everybody. And yes, I do understand it's principles.
You lower your carbohydrate intake to a level where you are in ketosis, i.e 60g carbohydrates.
You have a moderate protein intake to prevent yourself from slipping into a state of gluconeogenesis (I'm still reading up on this, but I reckon it takes a lot of protein for this to happen).
You increase your fat intake, as this is supposedly what is used for fuel instead of carbohydrates as well as to keep yourself satiated. But then, you weren't clear on whether body fat or dietary fat was used for fuel when you become 'fat adapted'. AAlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
Right, I totally understand the caloric deficit thing. I just don't get why low carbing would give you bigger fat loss if the caloric deficit is the
same? If your body uses dietary fat?
OP the thing you're forgetting is that the body uses fat and carbohydrates as energy whether you're low carbing or not. It even uses protein in dire situations. But think about this, if it was fat adapted, that means there'd have to be 0 carbohydrates coming in, otherwise it'd try and use those 30g of carbs you get daily on a keto diet?
You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
0 -
Ofc he has no research. He's fell for the bro-science stuff with keto diets. It was evident when I was questioning him on the first page about CICO vs low carb and 'fat adaption'.AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
Right, "Ketosis has a protein-sparing effect, assuming that you are consuming adequate quantities of protein and calories—0.7 grams per pound of body weight per day—in the first place.1 Once in ketosis, the body actually prefers ketones to glucose. Since the body has copious quantities of fat, this means there is no need to oxidize protein to generate glucose through gluconeogenesis."That's what I thought.
I generally am pretty suspect of those who hide their research under a rock.
Theres some information i thought of when making my point. As i said previously, people should do there own research and decide themselves on whether they believe or refute the idea. The internet is full of contradictory information
[/quote]
the body uses fat not very well in the presense of carbs. Do you know what you are talking about? You can be fat adapted and have minimal carb intake? What happens when the small amount of carbs are used up quickly?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if your body is forced to use the dietary fat from food as its main energy source it begins to become fat adapted right. Well after it has consumed and used all energy from food, it will look to use another source of energy. Because a keto dietor will be fat adapted because the bodys using dietary fat for energy, it is more readily able to then burn stored body fat as energy. However a high carbers body will first use carbs(from foo as energy, then deplete glycogen stores and even then there bodys arent adapted well to burning fat as energy = could account for lower levels of fat loss(not weight loss as this can be muscle)IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
dietary fat will be used first as the body will at least burn the calories you eat. The deficit you create from what you eat and what your burn will determine the fat loss. Unless anyone can better explain it?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
No need to get hostile.
Sorry but you have claimed to of tried a keto diet, yet you think its 60g and under carbs(under 30 optimal) and you dont understand it's principles
Then you'd know the carbohydrate range varies from 20-100g of carbs as slipping into a state of ketosis is different for everybody. And yes, I do understand it's principles.
You lower your carbohydrate intake to a level where you are in ketosis, i.e 60g carbohydrates.
You have a moderate protein intake to prevent yourself from slipping into a state of gluconeogenesis (I'm still reading up on this, but I reckon it takes a lot of protein for this to happen).
You increase your fat intake, as this is supposedly what is used for fuel instead of carbohydrates as well as to keep yourself satiated. But then, you weren't clear on whether body fat or dietary fat was used for fuel when you become 'fat adapted'. AAlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
Right, I totally understand the caloric deficit thing. I just don't get why low carbing would give you bigger fat loss if the caloric deficit is the
same? If your body uses dietary fat?
OP the thing you're forgetting is that the body uses fat and carbohydrates as energy whether you're low carbing or not. It even uses protein in dire situations. But think about this, if it was fat adapted, that means there'd have to be 0 carbohydrates coming in, otherwise it'd try and use those 30g of carbs you get daily on a keto diet?
You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
[/quote]
OP you go ahead and do your low carb0 -
Ofc he has no research. He's fell for the bro-science stuff with keto diets. It was evident when I was questioning him on the first page about CICO vs low carb and 'fat adaption'.AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
Right, "Ketosis has a protein-sparing effect, assuming that you are consuming adequate quantities of protein and calories—0.7 grams per pound of body weight per day—in the first place.1 Once in ketosis, the body actually prefers ketones to glucose. Since the body has copious quantities of fat, this means there is no need to oxidize protein to generate glucose through gluconeogenesis."That's what I thought.
I generally am pretty suspect of those who hide their research under a rock.
Theres some information i thought of when making my point. As i said previously, people should do there own research and decide themselves on whether they believe or refute the idea. The internet is full of contradictory information
[/quote]
the body uses fat not very well in the presense of carbs. Do you know what you are talking about? You can be fat adapted and have minimal carb intake? What happens when the small amount of carbs are used up quickly?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if your body is forced to use the dietary fat from food as its main energy source it begins to become fat adapted right. Well after it has consumed and used all energy from food, it will look to use another source of energy. Because a keto dietor will be fat adapted because the bodys using dietary fat for energy, it is more readily able to then burn stored body fat as energy. However a high carbers body will first use carbs(from foo as energy, then deplete glycogen stores and even then there bodys arent adapted well to burning fat as energy = could account for lower levels of fat loss(not weight loss as this can be muscle)IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
dietary fat will be used first as the body will at least burn the calories you eat. The deficit you create from what you eat and what your burn will determine the fat loss. Unless anyone can better explain it?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
No need to get hostile.
Sorry but you have claimed to of tried a keto diet, yet you think its 60g and under carbs(under 30 optimal) and you dont understand it's principles
Then you'd know the carbohydrate range varies from 20-100g of carbs as slipping into a state of ketosis is different for everybody. And yes, I do understand it's principles.
You lower your carbohydrate intake to a level where you are in ketosis, i.e 60g carbohydrates.
You have a moderate protein intake to prevent yourself from slipping into a state of gluconeogenesis (I'm still reading up on this, but I reckon it takes a lot of protein for this to happen).
You increase your fat intake, as this is supposedly what is used for fuel instead of carbohydrates as well as to keep yourself satiated. But then, you weren't clear on whether body fat or dietary fat was used for fuel when you become 'fat adapted'. AAlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
Right, I totally understand the caloric deficit thing. I just don't get why low carbing would give you bigger fat loss if the caloric deficit is the
same? If your body uses dietary fat?
OP the thing you're forgetting is that the body uses fat and carbohydrates as energy whether you're low carbing or not. It even uses protein in dire situations. But think about this, if it was fat adapted, that means there'd have to be 0 carbohydrates coming in, otherwise it'd try and use those 30g of carbs you get daily on a keto diet?
You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
[/quote]
I literally can't even0 -
Dude, i understand low carb hasn't worked for you. Get over it and continue with your diet!IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
no need to be a *kitten*? I didnt say it was right, or if i was right. I said its -apparently- got a muscle sparing quality.Sure. I have no idea where you got that info from or how flawed the research might be that spawned it.
I get it. You don't have research. You just believe something to be true. Cool. You are like everyone else on the internet. Good day sir.
Once again, do your own research, im not saying mines right http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/keto.htm
That is heavily ironic seeing as you just called @shell1005 something pretty rude.
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Ofc he has no research. He's fell for the bro-science stuff with keto diets. It was evident when I was questioning him on the first page about CICO vs low carb and 'fat adaption'.AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
Right, "Ketosis has a protein-sparing effect, assuming that you are consuming adequate quantities of protein and calories—0.7 grams per pound of body weight per day—in the first place.1 Once in ketosis, the body actually prefers ketones to glucose. Since the body has copious quantities of fat, this means there is no need to oxidize protein to generate glucose through gluconeogenesis."That's what I thought.
I generally am pretty suspect of those who hide their research under a rock.
Theres some information i thought of when making my point. As i said previously, people should do there own research and decide themselves on whether they believe or refute the idea. The internet is full of contradictory information
the body uses fat not very well in the presense of carbs[\b]. Do you know what you are talking about? You can be fat adapted and have minimal carb intake? What happens when the small amount of carbs are used up quickly?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if your body is forced to use the dietary fat from food as its main energy source it begins to become fat adapted right. Well after it has consumed and used all energy from food, it will look to use another source of energy. Because a keto dietor will be fat adapted because the bodys using dietary fat for energy, it is more readily able to then burn stored body fat as energy. However a high carbers body will first use carbs(from foo as energy, then deplete glycogen stores and even then there bodys arent adapted well to burning fat as energy = could account for lower levels of fat loss(not weight loss as this can be muscle)IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
dietary fat will be used first as the body will at least burn the calories you eat. The deficit you create from what you eat and what your burn will determine the fat loss. Unless anyone can better explain it?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
No need to get hostile.
Sorry but you have claimed to of tried a keto diet, yet you think its 60g and under carbs(under 30 optimal) and you dont understand it's principles
Then you'd know the carbohydrate range varies from 20-100g of carbs as slipping into a state of ketosis is different for everybody. And yes, I do understand it's principles.
You lower your carbohydrate intake to a level where you are in ketosis, i.e 60g carbohydrates.
You have a moderate protein intake to prevent yourself from slipping into a state of gluconeogenesis (I'm still reading up on this, but I reckon it takes a lot of protein for this to happen).
You increase your fat intake, as this is supposedly what is used for fuel instead of carbohydrates as well as to keep yourself satiated. But then, you weren't clear on whether body fat or dietary fat was used for fuel when you become 'fat adapted'. AAlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
Right, I totally understand the caloric deficit thing. I just don't get why low carbing would give you bigger fat loss if the caloric deficit is the
same? If your body uses dietary fat?
OP the thing you're forgetting is that the body uses fat and carbohydrates as energy whether you're low carbing or not. It even uses protein in dire situations. But think about this, if it was fat adapted, that means there'd have to be 0 carbohydrates coming in, otherwise it'd try and use those 30g of carbs you get daily on a keto diet?
You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
I literally can't even
This is actually the worst case of brosciencitus i've seen on MFP or even on the internet lol srs im dead0 -
AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
Dude, i understand low carb hasn't worked for you. Get over it and continue with your diet!IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
no need to be a *kitten*? I didnt say it was right, or if i was right. I said its -apparently- got a muscle sparing quality.Sure. I have no idea where you got that info from or how flawed the research might be that spawned it.
I get it. You don't have research. You just believe something to be true. Cool. You are like everyone else on the internet. Good day sir.
Once again, do your own research, im not saying mines right http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/keto.htm
That is heavily ironic seeing as you just called @shell1005 something pretty rude.
I am over it... and it did work pretty well for me. I lost 10lb's on it. I just didn't like it because I like carbs.0 -
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exactly. Who needs to find evidence when only us who have gave keto a fair chance have benefitted massively. I for one could not of achieved what i have on a iifym style diet that allows anything, namely malteizers, orange juice daily, coke, deep pan pizzas etc like this guy arguing with mepennystaplessnyder wrote: »To be fair, you can find legitimate evidence for both sides because we're not all robot people whose bodies lose weight the same way. Just because he's not posting research and evidence that you deem legitimate does not mean that keto doesn't work for everyone.
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