keto low carb refeed question
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Ofc he has no research. He's fell for the bro-science stuff with keto diets. It was evident when I was questioning him on the first page about CICO vs low carb and 'fat adaption'.AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
Right, "Ketosis has a protein-sparing effect, assuming that you are consuming adequate quantities of protein and calories—0.7 grams per pound of body weight per day—in the first place.1 Once in ketosis, the body actually prefers ketones to glucose. Since the body has copious quantities of fat, this means there is no need to oxidize protein to generate glucose through gluconeogenesis."That's what I thought.
I generally am pretty suspect of those who hide their research under a rock.
Theres some information i thought of when making my point. As i said previously, people should do there own research and decide themselves on whether they believe or refute the idea. The internet is full of contradictory information
the body uses fat not very well in the presense of carbs. Do you know what you are talking about? You can be fat adapted and have minimal carb intake? What happens when the small amount of carbs are used up quickly?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if your body is forced to use the dietary fat from food as its main energy source it begins to become fat adapted right. Well after it has consumed and used all energy from food, it will look to use another source of energy. Because a keto dietor will be fat adapted because the bodys using dietary fat for energy, it is more readily able to then burn stored body fat as energy. However a high carbers body will first use carbs(from foo as energy, then deplete glycogen stores and even then there bodys arent adapted well to burning fat as energy = could account for lower levels of fat loss(not weight loss as this can be muscle)IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
dietary fat will be used first as the body will at least burn the calories you eat. The deficit you create from what you eat and what your burn will determine the fat loss. Unless anyone can better explain it?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
No need to get hostile.
Sorry but you have claimed to of tried a keto diet, yet you think its 60g and under carbs(under 30 optimal) and you dont understand it's principles
Then you'd know the carbohydrate range varies from 20-100g of carbs as slipping into a state of ketosis is different for everybody. And yes, I do understand it's principles.
You lower your carbohydrate intake to a level where you are in ketosis, i.e 60g carbohydrates.
You have a moderate protein intake to prevent yourself from slipping into a state of gluconeogenesis (I'm still reading up on this, but I reckon it takes a lot of protein for this to happen).
You increase your fat intake, as this is supposedly what is used for fuel instead of carbohydrates as well as to keep yourself satiated. But then, you weren't clear on whether body fat or dietary fat was used for fuel when you become 'fat adapted'. AAlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
Right, I totally understand the caloric deficit thing. I just don't get why low carbing would give you bigger fat loss if the caloric deficit is the
same? If your body uses dietary fat?
OP the thing you're forgetting is that the body uses fat and carbohydrates as energy whether you're low carbing or not. It even uses protein in dire situations. But think about this, if it was fat adapted, that means there'd have to be 0 carbohydrates coming in, otherwise it'd try and use those 30g of carbs you get daily on a keto diet?
You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
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I literally can't even[/quote]
Sorry, it was worded badly. What i was trying to portray is that carbs are prioritised as a main source of energy in any diet. So in that way fat burning is limited. Ok?
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
exactly. Who needs to find evidence when only us who have gave keto a fair chance have benefitted massively. I for one could not of achieved what i have on a iifym style diet that allows anything, namely malteizers, orange juice daily, coke, deep pan pizzas etc like this guy arguing with mepennystaplessnyder wrote: »To be fair, you can find legitimate evidence for both sides because we're not all robot people whose bodies lose weight the same way. Just because he's not posting research and evidence that you deem legitimate does not mean that keto doesn't work for everyone.
The key to a successful IIFYM diet is to, uh, not eat all those things all the time. You will find few, if any, IIFYMers who actually do eat like that all the time. It's hyperbole.0 -
Fat burning is not limited at all if carbohydrates are present in your diet. Calories, its all about the calories. Literally.0
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
Dude, don't do this. Everyone has a different path to weightloss. And this coming from someone who has been keto-ing for nearly two years now. Just because keto helped me lose weight that wasn't budging on a standard diet, doesn't mean that a standard diet for others won't work for them.
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pennystaplessnyder wrote: »To be fair, you can find legitimate evidence for both sides because we're not all robot people whose bodies lose weight the same way. Just because he's not posting research and evidence that you deem legitimate does not mean that keto doesn't work for everyone.
Unless someone has a medical condition, we do lose weight in the same way. We all can have different ways of getting there, but that's personal preference. There is nothing wrong with asking someone to share where their beliefs came from and the research that they alluded to. The defensiveness when asked is telling. The name calling by the OP is also telling.
And I guess you miss that I am currently doing a low carb diet. I just don't think it's magic. It's just a tool to get to a calorie deficit.
And keto doesn't work for everyone. It's not the way that everyone wants to lose weight rather.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with asking for research, but to blow him off and say, "Oh, it's broscience". I don't agree with the OP's use of words or name-calling but I think he's just frustrated.
And its naive to believe that science is perfect. Scientific research can be flawed for many reasons. It is not the end all be all. Have you given us research to back up the fact that keto doesn't work? And for every study you post, any person who Googles could find another study to prove yours wrong.
It comes down to personal experience and preference. Like the OP, I too feel like complete and utter crap when I overdo sugars and processed foods. Some people do not understand how sugar sets me up for worse cravings and I actually have LESS energy. Low carb dieting helps me stay within my calorie deficit better. It works better for MY body, and no guy in a lab coat performing research experiments can tell me any different. To each his own.0 -
pennystaplessnyder wrote: »pennystaplessnyder wrote: »To be fair, you can find legitimate evidence for both sides because we're not all robot people whose bodies lose weight the same way. Just because he's not posting research and evidence that you deem legitimate does not mean that keto doesn't work for everyone.
Unless someone has a medical condition, we do lose weight in the same way. We all can have different ways of getting there, but that's personal preference. There is nothing wrong with asking someone to share where their beliefs came from and the research that they alluded to. The defensiveness when asked is telling. The name calling by the OP is also telling.
And I guess you miss that I am currently doing a low carb diet. I just don't think it's magic. It's just a tool to get to a calorie deficit.
And keto doesn't work for everyone. It's not the way that everyone wants to lose weight rather.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with asking for research, but to blow him off and say, "Oh, it's broscience". I don't agree with the OP's use of words or name-calling but I think he's just frustrated.
And its naive to believe that science is perfect. Scientific research can be flawed for many reasons. It is not the end all be all. Have you given us research to back up the fact that keto doesn't work? And for every study you post, any person who Googles could find another study to prove yours wrong.
It comes down to personal experience and preference. Like the OP, I too feel like complete and utter crap when I overdo sugars and processed foods. Some people do not understand how sugar sets me up for worse cravings and I actually have LESS energy. Low carb dieting helps me stay within my calorie deficit better. It works better for MY body, and no guy in a lab coat performing research experiments can tell me any different. To each his own.
We were given broscience many times.0 -
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Keto and low carb are not necessarily the same thing. Keto is always low carb, but low carb is not always keto. Keto is higher fat and moderate protein. Low carb could mean anything from 20 carbs to 50 or more and higher protein (maybe lower fats, it depends).
And you're absolutely right in that you should not just blindly believe what someone on the Internet says, but on the other hand, you can't just dismiss it as "broscience" automatically either just because someone prefers not to take the time to post research or does not articulate their views in a way you would like.0 -
pennystaplessnyder wrote: »Keto and low carb are not necessarily the same thing. Keto is always low carb, but low carb is not always keto. Keto is higher fat and moderate protein. Low carb could mean anything from 20 carbs to 50 or more and higher protein (maybe lower fats, it depends).
And you're absolutely right in that you should not just blindly believe what someone on the Internet says, but on the other hand, you can't just dismiss it as "broscience" automatically either just because someone prefers not to take the time to post research or does not articulate their views in a way you would like.
correct, i have been specifically talking about keto, not low carb because one can be on 'low" carbs yet not be in ketosis or fat adapted.
At first i was trying inform the individual from what i know or have experienced from keto, but constantly getting questioned or asked where my information is from wasjust annoying. Expecially when i said i do not think im right, i have just read, researched and told others to do the same before calling me out This diet has worked much better than other diets in terms of fat loss, and i have accounted this to keto, not a change in calories in or out
just my experience after all
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IsaackGMOON wrote: »pennystaplessnyder wrote: »pennystaplessnyder wrote: »To be fair, you can find legitimate evidence for both sides because we're not all robot people whose bodies lose weight the same way. Just because he's not posting research and evidence that you deem legitimate does not mean that keto doesn't work for everyone.
Unless someone has a medical condition, we do lose weight in the same way. We all can have different ways of getting there, but that's personal preference. There is nothing wrong with asking someone to share where their beliefs came from and the research that they alluded to. The defensiveness when asked is telling. The name calling by the OP is also telling.
And I guess you miss that I am currently doing a low carb diet. I just don't think it's magic. It's just a tool to get to a calorie deficit.
And keto doesn't work for everyone. It's not the way that everyone wants to lose weight rather.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with asking for research, but to blow him off and say, "Oh, it's broscience". I don't agree with the OP's use of words or name-calling but I think he's just frustrated.
And its naive to believe that science is perfect. Scientific research can be flawed for many reasons. It is not the end all be all. Have you given us research to back up the fact that keto doesn't work? And for every study you post, any person who Googles could find another study to prove yours wrong.
It comes down to personal experience and preference. Like the OP, I too feel like complete and utter crap when I overdo sugars and processed foods. Some people do not understand how sugar sets me up for worse cravings and I actually have LESS energy. Low carb dieting helps me stay within my calorie deficit better. It works better for MY body, and no guy in a lab coat performing research experiments can tell me any different. To each his own.
We were given broscience many times.
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i said do your own research so i didnt get called out like i have. I havent claimed what i have said is correct, just for you to research yourself and conclude what you would like.IsaackGMOON wrote: »pennystaplessnyder wrote: »pennystaplessnyder wrote: »To be fair, you can find legitimate evidence for both sides because we're not all robot people whose bodies lose weight the same way. Just because he's not posting research and evidence that you deem legitimate does not mean that keto doesn't work for everyone.
Unless someone has a medical condition, we do lose weight in the same way. We all can have different ways of getting there, but that's personal preference. There is nothing wrong with asking someone to share where their beliefs came from and the research that they alluded to. The defensiveness when asked is telling. The name calling by the OP is also telling.
And I guess you miss that I am currently doing a low carb diet. I just don't think it's magic. It's just a tool to get to a calorie deficit.
And keto doesn't work for everyone. It's not the way that everyone wants to lose weight rather.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with asking for research, but to blow him off and say, "Oh, it's broscience". I don't agree with the OP's use of words or name-calling but I think he's just frustrated.
And its naive to believe that science is perfect. Scientific research can be flawed for many reasons. It is not the end all be all. Have you given us research to back up the fact that keto doesn't work? And for every study you post, any person who Googles could find another study to prove yours wrong.
It comes down to personal experience and preference. Like the OP, I too feel like complete and utter crap when I overdo sugars and processed foods. Some people do not understand how sugar sets me up for worse cravings and I actually have LESS energy. Low carb dieting helps me stay within my calorie deficit better. It works better for MY body, and no guy in a lab coat performing research experiments can tell me any different. To each his own.
We were given broscience many times.
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IsaackGMOON wrote: »Fat burning is not limited at all if carbohydrates are present in your diet. Calories, its all about the calories. Literally.
if thats what you believe fron your own research then thats okay? I really don't care what you personally believe
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
The latter points answer my question about this threadAlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
I would argue that there is no such thing as adapting to using fat as an energy source. Your body uses whatever energy you provide it for fuel, and then goes into catabolism only if there is a caloric deficit, unless you don't agree with CICO theory.
There are 3 benefits to a refeed or overfeed: psychological break from sustained deficit, leptin increase, and glycogen refill.
The leptin increase and glycogen refill can only come from overfeeding carbs. i was wondering whether overfeeding calories would compensate for not carbing up
Regarding your opinion on the fat adaption, i found a few links that may or may not change your opinion. Not saying the link is reliable either, its where i got the idea from and it wasnt just my 'bro science'
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-fat-adapted/#axzz3d90wCUFh0 -
I would argue that there is no such thing as adapting to using fat as an energy source. Your body uses whatever energy you provide it for fuel, and then goes into catabolism only if there is a caloric deficit, unless you don't agree with CICO theory.
There are 3 benefits to a refeed or overfeed: psychological break from sustained deficit, leptin increase, and glycogen refill.
The leptin increase and glycogen refill can only come from overfeeding carbs.
The latter points answer my question about this thread i was wondering whether overfeeding calories would compensate for not carbing up
Regarding your opinion on the fat adaption, i found a few links that may or may not change your opinion. Not saying the link is reliable either, its where i got the idea from and it wasnt just my 'bro science'
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-fat-adapted/#axzz3d90wCUFh
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IsaackGMOON wrote: »Fat burning is not limited at all if carbohydrates are present in your diet. Calories, its all about the calories. Literally.
fat-burning beast can effectively burn stored fat for energy throughout the day. If you can handle missing meals and are able to go hours without getting ravenous and cranky (or craving carbs), you’re likely fat-adapted.
A fat-burning beast is able to effectively oxidize dietary fat for energy. If you’re adapted, your post-prandial fat oxidation will be increased, and less dietary fat will be stored in adipose tissue.
A fat-burning beast has plenty of accessible energy on hand, even if he or she is lean. If you’re adapted, the genes associated with lipid metabolism will be upregulated in your skeletal muscles. You will essentially reprogram your body.
A fat-burning beast can rely more on fat for energy during exercise, sparing glycogen for when he or she really needs it. As I’ve discussed before, being able to mobilize and oxidize stored fat during exercise can reduce an athlete’s reliance on glycogen.
Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-fat-adapted/#ixzz3dEQWtOyV0 -
Sorry but a few of people were having a go, with 'bro science' etc and questioning what i was proposing (even when i said i didnt say any of it was of scientific truth). Most of what i wrote has came from information from sites and researching several different sites that i cannot remember the original destination. Thus letting people research and read up on topics themselves will enable them to come to a judgement regarding validity of discussions.Since it seems important, I am in a diet that allows me to remain in ketosis. However, my opinion on low carb or keto isn't more or less valid as a result. Nor did I ever say keto didn't work. I said some of the claims made in this thread about a low carb or keto diet are absolutely suspect.
However, I encourage each person to find their own diet that gets them to a deficit the easiest and do that. If it is keto, great. If it is IIFYM, also great. Different strokes.
That's all for me in this thread since I am turned off by people's inability to have a discussion or a discord of beliefs when it turns to immature name calling and defensiveness. Take care, enjoy your journey.0 -
I would argue that there is no such thing as adapting to using fat as an energy source.
I would disagree, if you want your brain and other tissues to be largely fuelled by ketones in the absence of dietary carbohydrates it's cool to give them time to adapt to this and upregulate the relevant enzymes and processes.
If your RQ drops to 0.73 from 0.85 at rest you've adapted somehow.
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I am sure you won't answer, but I'd love to see the research/science on that.
I just read an article that said the opposite. It wasn't research or science. It was on a body building site, but made an opposite statement.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
I would argue that there is no such thing as adapting to using fat as an energy source. Your body uses whatever energy you provide it for fuel, and then goes into catabolism only if there is a caloric deficit, unless you don't agree with CICO theory.
There are 3 benefits to a refeed or overfeed: psychological break from sustained deficit, leptin increase, and glycogen refill.
The leptin increase and glycogen refill can only come from overfeeding carbs.
The latter points answer my question about this thread i was wondering whether overfeeding calories would compensate for not carbing up
Not sure exactly what you mean by compensating for not carbing up? Nutritionally? No.
In terms of rate of fat loss, no, I am not aware of any evidence that would support this idea. In terms of satiety and psychological break from caloric deficit, then sure, a day or two at caloric maintenance or even slight surplus will make you feel better and give you some extra energy without derailing your fat loss progress. If you are in keto and on a calorie deficit, a day or two of more calories but no extra carbs will not make your muscles feel and look fuller like a carb refeed will, nor will it provide any long term increase to your metabolism or improve your hormone profile.AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »Regarding your opinion on the fat adaption, i found a few links that may or may not change your opinion. Not saying the link is reliable either, its where i got the idea from and it wasnt just my 'bro science'
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-fat-adapted/#axzz3d90wCUFh
I actually have read that before. There is some evidence that the body in keto can utilize body fat more efficiently, however, that does not translate to better performance or faster body fat loss. Here is a low n study, but there are many others:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1748-1716.2009.01996.x/full
Paleo and Atkins and just about anything with the term "diet" in the title are all marketing concepts. They have a good "hook" that sounds plausible and they make incredible claims about the diet. None of this stuff is new, it is just repackaged from time to time. Bodybuilder Vince Gironda was promoting the steak and eggs diet back in the 40s, and the history of low-carb goes back way earlier than that. By all means, if you enjoy eating that way, and make good sustainable progress on it, or have a medical reason to do it, then go for it. I enjoyed a couple of things about being in keto, but there was a lot of things I didn't enjoy. Some exhaustive meta-analysis studies show that overweight people are able to accomplish better short term adherence (<1 year) to low-carb compared to other diets, but long-term they are all about the same. Long-term, low-carb health markers are also about the same to a balanced diet.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0100652
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&tl=en&prev=_dd&u=http://www.sbu.se/sv/Publicerat/Gul/Mat-vid-fetma-/0 -
I would argue that there is no such thing as adapting to using fat as an energy source.
I would disagree, if you want your brain and other tissues to be largely fuelled by ketones in the absence of dietary carbohydrates it's cool to give them time to adapt to this and upregulate the relevant enzymes and processes.
If your RQ drops to 0.73 from 0.85 at rest you've adapted somehow.
Agree with this. My earlier statement is poorly worded. I would argue that although ketosis adaptation is real (I had the temporary low-carb flu to support this idea), it does not improve athletic performance or help to increase rate of body fat loss, as some people claim it does.0
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