For some, has avoiding fat been more effective than avoiding carbs for weight loss?
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You will go insane with no dietary fat in your diet. It's not a good idea. It will work to a point 1gram of fat is 9cals and carbs and protein are 4 call per gram. Protein and fat are necessary to a healthy diet. Carbs aren't a necessity0
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Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BILLBRYTAN wrote: »Then could you please stop sabotaging the efforts of people who really care about nutrition?
Lol.
Ignore Bill the quack. Listen to the others.0 -
Dietary fat helps the body absorb nutrients ...cutting it out is a bad idea
In fact fat and protein should both be set as minimums0 -
BILLBRYTAN wrote: »It is not a simple matter of just cutting fat and carbs; manufactured fats like canola, corn, safflower and soybean oil should be eliminated entirely because they serve no nutritional purpose. Most fats, like bacon and eggs, butter, coconut oil and other saturated fats should be increased because saturated fats and cholesterol are healthy. Same thing with refined white sugar, white flour, white rice etc. If it is manufactured you should not ever eat it. If the sugar is in whole raw fruits or vegetables you can eat lots. Nutrition is far too complex to be based merely upon macro-nutrients: CARBS, FAT, PROTEIN.
So canola, corn, safflower and soybean oil are "manufactured" but bacon, butter, and coconut oil aren't? Because the bacon comes off the pig already smoked, the butterfat comes out of the cow already separated from the buttermilk, and you crack open a coconut and the oil runs out?0 -
Okay, you need to:
1.) Eat enough volume and slow digesting stuff to be full.
2.) MAYBE eat a higher protein/lower carb balance because of the PCOS.
#1, the things that will lead to greater satiety are 1) protein, 2) fats, 3) fiber, particularly insoluable, 4) bulky low calories stuff...which is really a way of saying #3 again, lol. These things make you feel full faster and stay feeling full.
This will lead naturally to #2. You don't have to go full "low carb" to lose, though, with PCOS.
Leave 10% to 20% of your calories for your favorite foods, depending on your calorie count and how full you feel.
Low-carb-ish diets tend to work better in studies for two reasons. #1, people feel fuller so they cheat less. #2, you carry around less water weight with fewer carbs, so you get a few "cheat" pounds in an experimental setting. LOL.0 -
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »BILLBRYTAN wrote: »It is not a simple matter of just cutting fat and carbs; manufactured fats like canola, corn, safflower and soybean oil should be eliminated entirely because they serve no nutritional purpose. Most fats, like bacon and eggs, butter, coconut oil and other saturated fats should be increased because saturated fats and cholesterol are healthy. Same thing with refined white sugar, white flour, white rice etc. If it is manufactured you should not ever eat it. If the sugar is in whole raw fruits or vegetables you can eat lots. Nutrition is far too complex to be based merely upon macro-nutrients: CARBS, FAT, PROTEIN.
So canola, corn, safflower and soybean oil are "manufactured" but bacon, butter, and coconut oil aren't? Because the bacon comes off the pig already smoked, the butterfat comes out of the cow already separated from the buttermilk, and you crack open a coconut and the oil runs out?
I wonder if sugar direct from the cane is ok.
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By eliminating carbs you eliminate a lot of foods, by eliminating fat you also eliminate a lot of foods. Both method works. There are vegans who stay lean on a very low fat diet, there are paleo people who maintain their weight on a very high fat diet.
You can choose to starve yourself of a certain macronutrient but you don't have to go that far to lose weight.0 -
Everyone has their own beliefs about what works for them. I have an endocrinologist who has never had a weight problem tell me "everything in moderation." That doesn't work for me. I have struggled with weight my whole life. This past March I stopped eating anything processed, stopped eating grains, and started taking probiotics. I am losing weight -- at the age of 60, in menopause, with a 50-year history of diet failures -- at a rate which is astounding me. 25 lbs in 14 weeks.
And I am not white-knuckling this diet, just trying to get through the day, constantly fighting the urge to eat. It has enough satiety to keep me from struggling -- and allows me to keep my calories low enough, for long enough, to see this significant weight loss. My average percentage of carbs per week has ranged from 16% to 25%, fats from 50% to 63%, protein from 19% to 24%. Some days in a week I want more of a macronutrient and I let myself have it, knowing that the next day I'll lean more towards the others. All I can say is, "This works for me."
So you need to find out what works for you. Ignore anyone who says, "This worked for me, so obviously it is the only right way to do it." Just experiment with what makes you feel the best, and what gives you the results you want.
And that's why you are losing. It's not the probiotics or anything else.
The bad part about people who've figured it out being too cavalier about eating anything is that it leaves a lot of people trying to figure out how to make it work. They just hear "you can eat anything you want in moderation" and just try to slash volume across the board...which will usually make you miserable.
Keeping satiety high is important. You have to shift around your foods to eat more stuff that fills you up for cheap. YES, you can lose on a Twinkies-only diet, but you'll be miserable and hungry on it. 0 -
Carbs and grains are not inherently bad for weight loss but they do tend to be the variable as proteins and fats are best looked at as minimums. However, if you have PCOS, you may do better keeping low'ish to moderate carbs, and keeping protein and fats slightly on the higher side.0
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »BILLBRYTAN wrote: »It is not a simple matter of just cutting fat and carbs; manufactured fats like canola, corn, safflower and soybean oil should be eliminated entirely because they serve no nutritional purpose. Most fats, like bacon and eggs, butter, coconut oil and other saturated fats should be increased because saturated fats and cholesterol are healthy. Same thing with refined white sugar, white flour, white rice etc. If it is manufactured you should not ever eat it. If the sugar is in whole raw fruits or vegetables you can eat lots. Nutrition is far too complex to be based merely upon macro-nutrients: CARBS, FAT, PROTEIN.
So canola, corn, safflower and soybean oil are "manufactured" but bacon, butter, and coconut oil aren't? Because the bacon comes off the pig already smoked, the butterfat comes out of the cow already separated from the buttermilk, and you crack open a coconut and the oil runs out?
Yepppp.
Unless one is living on a completely self-sufficient farm and making everything themselves with their own garden and livestock, you are going to consume something that has been manufactured in some way. And there is nothing inherentely wrong with any of those items.0 -
"And that's why you are losing. It's not the probiotics or anything else."
MamaBirdBoss: See, I don't think you can legitimately make that kind of declaration. I can't either -- I would never say "I KNOW it's the probiotics." All I know is I am doing these three new things (2 of which, the processed foods and the probiotics) I've never done before, and I am having these results. This is the point I was trying to make. Everyone has to figure out, through trial and error, through gathering data from their N1 experiment, what will work for them.
I do agree with you that findig satiety is important -- and I've found mine through a higher level of fat than others might like.
I also am following a lot of the research on gut biome/flora -- the fact that I had antibiotics with a surgery at 6 months, and then rapidly gained weight after that, makes me curious.0 -
I do have PCOS, along with other, more serious, metabolic issues.
I find that I must eat a low-to-moderate-carb diet. I've been tracking for several years and the pattern is incredibly obviously for my body--I cannot lose or maintain if I am over 100G of carbs per day. The more fat that I consume, the better I seem to do with weight loss. I would categorize the way that I currently eat as moderate-carb, moderate fat. I would lose more weight with lower carbs and higher fat, but that is not a sustainable eating pattern for me.
OP, how much exercise are you getting? That is also an essential thing if you have insulin resistance.0 -
"And that's why you are losing. It's not the probiotics or anything else."
MamaBirdBoss: See, I don't think you can legitimately make that kind of declaration. I can't either -- I would never say "I KNOW it's the probiotics." All I know is I am doing these three new things (2 of which, the processed foods and the probiotics) I've never done before, and I am having these results. This is the point I was trying to make. Everyone has to figure out, through trial and error, through gathering data from their N1 experiment, what will work for them.
I do agree with you that findig satiety is important -- and I've found mine through a higher level of fat than others might like.
I also am following a lot of the research on gut biome/flora -- the fact that I had antibiotics with a surgery at 6 months, and then rapidly gained weight after that, makes me curious.
You kind of can though
Cos science has proved that eating fewer calories than you burn = weight loss
Trial and error comes in in the path you choose to take to reach that
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"And that's why you are losing. It's not the probiotics or anything else."
MamaBirdBoss: See, I don't think you can legitimately make that kind of declaration. I can't either -- I would never say "I KNOW it's the probiotics." All I know is I am doing these three new things (2 of which, the processed foods and the probiotics) I've never done before, and I am having these results. This is the point I was trying to make. Everyone has to figure out, through trial and error, through gathering data from their N1 experiment, what will work for them.
I do agree with you that findig satiety is important -- and I've found mine through a higher level of fat than others might like.
I also am following a lot of the research on gut biome/flora -- the fact that I had antibiotics with a surgery at 6 months, and then rapidly gained weight after that, makes me curious.
And the fact that surgery reduces your activity level eg CO and increases opportunities for you to eat and snack CI isn't what you're focusing on
Do you not find that a little odd?0 -
PS I always take acidophilus post antibiotics ...I don't dispute the impact on overall health ...merely re weight loss0
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Personally I have found that cutting grains from diet gives a great calorie surplus, i enjoy the 'replacement' veg more than i ever did the grains and it helps my IBS. I also find that when I start on the grains , it's hard to stop! (6 bacon toasties this weekeend- 6!- buts thats rare)
My Mum on the other hand lived in the 'fat is bad' time and avoided as much fat as possible and ate various carby snacks (overall low cals though). She was very slender. She also suffered with depression, dry skin and chronic constipation. My gut feeling is that if she had replaced her crackers and low-fat spread snacks with something fatty and protein high she may have had less symptoms- but that's just my thought. Who knows......0 -
I've tried paleo/whole 30 because people swear by it and I also have PCOS, which is a condition that has low carb diets recommended for it. When I've done 30 day challenges for these types of diets, I would still watch portions or count calories but I actually lost less weight than when I ate normally. I lost even more weight when I tried a plant based challenge. All you hear about on forums and in the news nowadays is about how bad carbs/grains are for weight loss. Has anyone else found the opposite to be true that cutting fat has effected your weight loss rather than cutting carbs?
Some people in clinical trials respond better to low fat than low carb, usually those that are insulin sensitive. PCOS usually implies insulin resistance but maybe not in your case.
So it can happen for sure.0 -
Rabbitjb -- perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I had surgery at age 6 months (in 1956, not 6 months ago). There is some research that suggests that antibiotics given to infants permanently changes gut flora.... Why did I go from a normal size baby to an extremely chubby one immediately post-surgery? That's a question I obviously cannot answer, but it makes me wonder....especially as none of my siblings nor my parents had a weight problem.
Yes, fine to say "science proves" that eating fewer calories than you burn leads to weight loss. But that doesn't then mean that that's the ONLY way weight loss occurs, or that CICO is the entire truth about weight loss. There is too much we don't know, that science has hardly scratched the surface of. That's why I don't make any statements about what is "true." I only say, this is my experience and it seems to be true for me. YMMV.
If anything, being older, in menopause, and eating more calories on average than I ever did in past attempts, I should be losing more slowly and with more difficulty than in the past. But that is not what is happening. So I have to ask myself, why is this time so different?
The things that I am doing differently this time, that I have not done before, is avoiding processed foods, avoiding grains, and taking probiotics. I obviously cannot know if one, none, or several of these changes working together are making the difference, but something is. All I know that what I am doing makes me feel good, keeps me happy, and is sustainable not only for the next 6-9 months (till goal) but for the rest of my life.
Again, I am only saying this is what is true for ME. I am not suggesting that it should be true for anyone else.
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Rabbitjb -- perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I had surgery at age 6 months (in 1956, not 6 months ago). There is some research that suggests that antibiotics given to infants permanently changes gut flora.... Why did I go from a normal size baby to an extremely chubby one immediately post-surgery? That's a question I obviously cannot answer, but it makes me wonder....especially as none of my siblings nor my parents had a weight problem.
Yes, fine to say "science proves" that eating fewer calories than you burn leads to weight loss. But that doesn't then mean that that's the ONLY way weight loss occurs, or that CICO is the entire truth about weight loss. There is too much we don't know, that science has hardly scratched the surface of. That's why I don't make any statements about what is "true." I only say, this is my experience and it seems to be true for me. YMMV.
If anything, being older, in menopause, and eating more calories on average than I ever did in past attempts, I should be losing more slowly and with more difficulty than in the past. But that is not what is happening. So I have to ask myself, why is this time so different?
The things that I am doing differently this time, that I have not done before, is avoiding processed foods, avoiding grains, and taking probiotics. I obviously cannot know if one, none, or several of these changes working together are making the difference, but something is. All I know that what I am doing makes me feel good, keeps me happy, and is sustainable not only for the next 6-9 months (till goal) but for the rest of my life.
Again, I am only saying this is what is true for ME. I am not suggesting that it should be true for anyone else.
Sorry but whatever you believe and whatever you say CICO is the one abiding truth about weight loss
IF you consume fewer calories than you burn you will lose weight
Yes there are factors that affect the Calories Out part of the equation which is what I believe you are alluding to - but it doesn't turn the over-riding precept of CI<CO = weight loss on it's head .. it merely affects the size of the CO .. and that holds true in metabolic disorders and any other medical condition you would care to mention
Now if said person takes medicine that can affect the CO part CICO would still count
if said person chooses KETO or Low-Carb or count my calories but ride on an elephant daily to stick to their CI<CO equation then yes
people may also pay no attention to counting calories but achieve a defecit through macro manipulation .. and that's great if that is what works for them .. I have no issue with how you choose to go about achieving your CI<CO
Maybe we are talking semantics and agreeing with each other I don't know .. but it seems like you feel CICO is a theory whereas rather it's just a biological fact0 -
I've tried paleo/whole 30 because people swear by it and I also have PCOS, which is a condition that has low carb diets recommended for it. When I've done 30 day challenges for these types of diets, I would still watch portions or count calories but I actually lost less weight than when I ate normally. I lost even more weight when I tried a plant based challenge. All you hear about on forums and in the news nowadays is about how bad carbs/grains are for weight loss. Has anyone else found the opposite to be true that cutting fat has effected your weight loss rather than cutting carbs?
Cutting out any type of food often leads to an initial weight loss, but it doesn't teach you sustainable habits.
The most sustainable and nutritious way to lose weight is to eat a balanced diet totalling less calories that your total daily energy expenditure.
This is what a balanced diet looks like:
From here: http://nutritionaustralia.org/national/resource/healthy-eating-pyramid
Kind regards
Orph.0 -
I've tried paleo/whole 30 because people swear by it and I also have PCOS, which is a condition that has low carb diets recommended for it. When I've done 30 day challenges for these types of diets, I would still watch portions or count calories but I actually lost less weight than when I ate normally. I lost even more weight when I tried a plant based challenge. All you hear about on forums and in the news nowadays is about how bad carbs/grains are for weight loss. Has anyone else found the opposite to be true that cutting fat has effected your weight loss rather than cutting carbs?
Cutting out any type of food often leads to an initial weight loss, but it doesn't teach you sustainable habits.
The most sustainable and nutritious way to lose weight is to eat a balanced diet totalling less calories that your total daily energy expenditure.
This is what a balanced diet looks like:
From here: http://nutritionaustralia.org/national/resource/healthy-eating-pyramid
Kind regards
Orph.
not bad this Australian pyramid (apart from the hesitation about legumes, placed both in the first and in the third layer
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Read up on nutrition from a variety of authors.
I like the medium chain tryglicerides in my diet. They are good for me.
Low to no fat were fad diets I tried years ago. No carb also.
Now I focus on filling nutritious foods with a moderate carb ammount due to no added sugar (less calories too). Add in exercise.
The calories in are less than the calories I need for daily activity and magically fat burns off.
As others mentioned, there are good fats. I cook with coconut oil, refined, and it is an easy addition of a good fat.
It only took a few years to find my way thru the diet maze. And I heard so many telling me their way was the only way! Oddly enough many of them have moved on to some other "only way". And most have not lost the weight.
Best wishes on finding the best way for you.
Muscle Fitness website has a body type quiz. It helps you determine a good strategy to work and feed your body type for optimal results0 -
Body type diets were debunked years ago0
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I've tried paleo/whole 30 because people swear by it and I also have PCOS, which is a condition that has low carb diets recommended for it. When I've done 30 day challenges for these types of diets, I would still watch portions or count calories but I actually lost less weight than when I ate normally. I lost even more weight when I tried a plant based challenge. All you hear about on forums and in the news nowadays is about how bad carbs/grains are for weight loss. Has anyone else found the opposite to be true that cutting fat has effected your weight loss rather than cutting carbs?
With regard to weight loss I have personally found that keeping a check on dietary fat has served me better than carbs (not that I pay much attention to macros generally however.)
I think that is mainly because fat, particularly when combined with sugar, makes ridiculously tasty concoctions which I am prone to over eat with - like cake. Hmmmm, cake.0 -
Actually increasing my fats has aided my weight loss and maintenance. I find with more fat within the same calories I feel more full. Overall I try to hit certain amounts of fat and protein and then let carbs fall where they will as long as I also get enough fiber. This is what works for me and was found through trial and error. You should find what works for you.0
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I agree it is calorie in calorie out but I find lower simple carbs and more protein/moderate fat seems to keep my blood sugar on more of an even keel and stop me feeling light headed and reaching for the white bread. I guess I need a low GI diet.
Some friend of mine recommended the Harcomb diet as a miracle weight lose mechanism. I have been trying phase one of it this week. At the end of the first day I totted up my calories out of interest. I had about 900. No wonder you loose weight. So then I started cheating.....porridge doesn't taste right made with water.0 -
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