For some, has avoiding fat been more effective than avoiding carbs for weight loss?
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Being attracted to whole, healthy foods is an acquired thing. Human nature wants to eat what it wants to derive pleasure from it. That's OK to a degree, but just read the labels and see all of the chemicals and crap that is filling up processed foods. The nitrates and nitrites are cancer fiends and are best left out of your body. Spicy meats have the nitrites/nitrates in them. Some say rice is bad but I use whole grain brown rice and quinoa with 3 oz chicken for lunch most days. It helps on the days I have trouble with getting in enough calories. Peanut butter helps, too.0
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BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
That's just the point; how can you enjoy life if you are unhealthy from eating manufactured garbage?asflatasapancake wrote: »Avoiding anything doesn't make you lose weight better or faster. Eat a calorie deficit. Try to meet your macros. Enjoy life.
Well, I'd argue with this point, but it really just isn't worth it. Maybe someone else will.
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azulvioleta6 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »You guys bashing sugar and fat can take a look at my diary entry from yesterday. I did Stronglifts 5x5 and a small amount of cycling (only about 150 calories), and even with all of what many consider "junk food" in my day, I won't gain an ounce (of fat; water is another story, but meh). Know why? Because I burned more than I consumed. That's how it works.
Let me guess...you don't have PCOS.
PCOS doesn't break the laws of physics.
It's more like chemistry, actually.
Chemistry obeys the laws of physics too. Everything does. Energy can't be created or destroyed, every action requires energy. Nothing on this planet can change that.0 -
BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
CICO works if weight loss is the only goal.MamaBirdBoss wrote: »
Thankfully it's shown that losing weight improves your health. All in one wash.0 -
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BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT is also a law of physics. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EATstevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »You guys bashing sugar and fat can take a look at my diary entry from yesterday. I did Stronglifts 5x5 and a small amount of cycling (only about 150 calories), and even with all of what many consider "junk food" in my day, I won't gain an ounce (of fat; water is another story, but meh). Know why? Because I burned more than I consumed. That's how it works.
Let me guess...you don't have PCOS.
PCOS doesn't break the laws of physics.
It's more like chemistry, actually.
Chemistry obeys the laws of physics too. Everything does. Energy can't be created or destroyed, every action requires energy. Nothing on this planet can change that.
I wouldn't recommend eating out of a garbage can. That's unsanitary.
Foods made with "processed" oil, white sugar, flour, rice, ect? Those aren't garbage, and can be incorporated into a balanced intake.
Edit: additionally, I would recommend you make your own thread on this topic at this point. You continue to hijack the OP's post to post this kind of commentary. Your best bet is to make your own post, so people can continue to discuss the original topic on hand here.0 -
BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT is also a law of physics. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EATstevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »You guys bashing sugar and fat can take a look at my diary entry from yesterday. I did Stronglifts 5x5 and a small amount of cycling (only about 150 calories), and even with all of what many consider "junk food" in my day, I won't gain an ounce (of fat; water is another story, but meh). Know why? Because I burned more than I consumed. That's how it works.
Let me guess...you don't have PCOS.
PCOS doesn't break the laws of physics.
It's more like chemistry, actually.
Chemistry obeys the laws of physics too. Everything does. Energy can't be created or destroyed, every action requires energy. Nothing on this planet can change that.
You mad bro?0 -
BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT is also a law of physics. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EATstevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »You guys bashing sugar and fat can take a look at my diary entry from yesterday. I did Stronglifts 5x5 and a small amount of cycling (only about 150 calories), and even with all of what many consider "junk food" in my day, I won't gain an ounce (of fat; water is another story, but meh). Know why? Because I burned more than I consumed. That's how it works.
Let me guess...you don't have PCOS.
PCOS doesn't break the laws of physics.
It's more like chemistry, actually.
Chemistry obeys the laws of physics too. Everything does. Energy can't be created or destroyed, every action requires energy. Nothing on this planet can change that.
Why are you yelling?0 -
BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT is also a law of physics. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EATstevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »You guys bashing sugar and fat can take a look at my diary entry from yesterday. I did Stronglifts 5x5 and a small amount of cycling (only about 150 calories), and even with all of what many consider "junk food" in my day, I won't gain an ounce (of fat; water is another story, but meh). Know why? Because I burned more than I consumed. That's how it works.
Let me guess...you don't have PCOS.
PCOS doesn't break the laws of physics.
It's more like chemistry, actually.
Chemistry obeys the laws of physics too. Everything does. Energy can't be created or destroyed, every action requires energy. Nothing on this planet can change that.
Garbage sources in/garbage (mis)information out. The way of the avi-less warriors0 -
BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT is also a law of physics. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EATstevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »You guys bashing sugar and fat can take a look at my diary entry from yesterday. I did Stronglifts 5x5 and a small amount of cycling (only about 150 calories), and even with all of what many consider "junk food" in my day, I won't gain an ounce (of fat; water is another story, but meh). Know why? Because I burned more than I consumed. That's how it works.
Let me guess...you don't have PCOS.
PCOS doesn't break the laws of physics.
It's more like chemistry, actually.
Chemistry obeys the laws of physics too. Everything does. Energy can't be created or destroyed, every action requires energy. Nothing on this planet can change that.
Currently I am an apple. Perhaps later this afternoon I will be a marshmallow. For dinner, I shall be chicken buffalo dip.
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BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT is also a law of physics. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EATstevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »You guys bashing sugar and fat can take a look at my diary entry from yesterday. I did Stronglifts 5x5 and a small amount of cycling (only about 150 calories), and even with all of what many consider "junk food" in my day, I won't gain an ounce (of fat; water is another story, but meh). Know why? Because I burned more than I consumed. That's how it works.
Let me guess...you don't have PCOS.
PCOS doesn't break the laws of physics.
It's more like chemistry, actually.
Chemistry obeys the laws of physics too. Everything does. Energy can't be created or destroyed, every action requires energy. Nothing on this planet can change that.
Currently I am an apple. Perhaps later this afternoon I will be a marshmallow. For dinner, I shall be chicken buffalo dip.
Yeah, well:
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MamaBirdBoss wrote: »Rabbitjb -- perhaps we are dealing with semantics. I will agree that CICO is a 4 Laws of Thermodynamics fact when it comes to machines -- but when it comes to weight loss it is almost meaningless, because so many factors (which you yourself mention: hormones, bacteria, medicine etc) affect how our bodies respond.
74% of variation in basal metabolic rate is accounted for by lean body mass, fat mass, height, and gender, in that order (with lean body mass by itself being over 60%). Some of the rest is accounted for by "after burn" from regular exercise--really, no more than 15% at most is down to individual differences that aren't easily predictable.
Something like 90% of the calories burned in exercise break down to distance, speed, time, and weight.
This ends up being a "slosh" of no more than 300 calories a day, excluding REALLY EXTREME DISORDERS that few people have (and almost all of those disorder cause weight loss rather than gain).
Proof of that.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11869-012-0193-4
It's measured in Joule in that thing for some reason, but anyway. The highest TDEE they found out of over 200 groups with a total of over 6000 participants was 3200-ish in a guy, and 2500-ish in a woman. Wish you could see more than just the abstract for free, maybe they list the lowest they got too.0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT is also a law of physics. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EATstevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »You guys bashing sugar and fat can take a look at my diary entry from yesterday. I did Stronglifts 5x5 and a small amount of cycling (only about 150 calories), and even with all of what many consider "junk food" in my day, I won't gain an ounce (of fat; water is another story, but meh). Know why? Because I burned more than I consumed. That's how it works.
Let me guess...you don't have PCOS.
PCOS doesn't break the laws of physics.
It's more like chemistry, actually.
Chemistry obeys the laws of physics too. Everything does. Energy can't be created or destroyed, every action requires energy. Nothing on this planet can change that.
Currently I am an apple. Perhaps later this afternoon I will be a marshmallow. For dinner, I shall be chicken buffalo dip.
Yeah, well:
Only if I were kosher. Mmm. I usually prefer to be chicken sausage (also an option for dinner).0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT is also a law of physics. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EATstevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »You guys bashing sugar and fat can take a look at my diary entry from yesterday. I did Stronglifts 5x5 and a small amount of cycling (only about 150 calories), and even with all of what many consider "junk food" in my day, I won't gain an ounce (of fat; water is another story, but meh). Know why? Because I burned more than I consumed. That's how it works.
Let me guess...you don't have PCOS.
PCOS doesn't break the laws of physics.
It's more like chemistry, actually.
Chemistry obeys the laws of physics too. Everything does. Energy can't be created or destroyed, every action requires energy. Nothing on this planet can change that.
Why are you yelling?
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flamingblades wrote: »I believe one also has to take genetics into focus as well as what or what not to eat. Some people have the genes of a jackrabbit and can eat Yorkie bars and still stay thin. Others, like me, LOOK at a Yorkie and gain 3 lbs. My father was obese, his mother was obese, I blimped out first and over the years my sister and brother followed the genetic pattern. Some of us can eat processed foods and others can't tolerate them. I know someone that can't eat anything processed or she gets sick. She eats only whole foods and is leaning towards vegetarianism. Every body is unique and has different needs. The only way to be successful is to follow certain rules and observe how the body responds.
Actually, they don't. Numerous studies have shown that people who think they don't eat anything and gain weight are lying to themselves--both about how much they eat and how active they are. Studies which involve feeding people don't show this variation.0 -
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MamaBirdBoss: "This is the FIRST TIME you've ever done what actually works: consistently eating a deficit. Why look for magic unicorn farts when the answer is right in front of you?"
I think you are confusing me with someone else. I never said this is the first time I have consistently eaten at a deficit. In fact, I have done that many times before. And I have lost some weight, albeit incredibly slowly and never to what the deficit said I should.
What I said was this is the first time I have done these additional other things (no grains, no processed foods, and probiotics) and finding that -- despite being a decade older and in menopause -- weight is coming off much faster than it ever has before and far more than the deficit would indicate.
Sounds like a magic unicorn fart to me!
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For sure, I use a combination of cico and low carb/low GI diet. It would be useless to do one without the other to address all of my symptoms. If she is lucky she won't have any of the more obnoxious side effects, but I am willing to bet some of them are what prompted her to get diagnosed, it was for me!
Still didn't stop me from having a bite of chocolate cake at lunch today though.0 -
BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT is also a law of physics. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EATstevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »You guys bashing sugar and fat can take a look at my diary entry from yesterday. I did Stronglifts 5x5 and a small amount of cycling (only about 150 calories), and even with all of what many consider "junk food" in my day, I won't gain an ounce (of fat; water is another story, but meh). Know why? Because I burned more than I consumed. That's how it works.
Let me guess...you don't have PCOS.
PCOS doesn't break the laws of physics.
It's more like chemistry, actually.
Chemistry obeys the laws of physics too. Everything does. Energy can't be created or destroyed, every action requires energy. Nothing on this planet can change that.
Might want to check out the Clean Eating group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/133-clean-eating-group
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BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT is also a law of physics. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EATstevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »You guys bashing sugar and fat can take a look at my diary entry from yesterday. I did Stronglifts 5x5 and a small amount of cycling (only about 150 calories), and even with all of what many consider "junk food" in my day, I won't gain an ounce (of fat; water is another story, but meh). Know why? Because I burned more than I consumed. That's how it works.
Let me guess...you don't have PCOS.
PCOS doesn't break the laws of physics.
It's more like chemistry, actually.
Chemistry obeys the laws of physics too. Everything does. Energy can't be created or destroyed, every action requires energy. Nothing on this planet can change that.
Currently I am an apple. Perhaps later this afternoon I will be a marshmallow. For dinner, I shall be chicken buffalo dip.
Oh, dear. I had some piggie and some veggies for lunch. Am I a pig or a vegetable? Thank goodness I didn't have those nuts I almost had.
And WHY am I being insulted!0 -
flamingblades wrote: »Others, like me, LOOK at a Yorkie and gain 3 lbs.
Hmm.
Cute, but I wouldn't have thought obesogenic.
More seriously, I don't think the fact that people react differently to some foods (for example, digestively or in terms of satiety) and that people's metabolisms differ (as well as their natural tendencies to eat more than they need to maintain their weights) is contrary to CICO.0 -
Are you sure you had veggies? Could've been fruits.lemurcat12 wrote: »BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT is also a law of physics. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EATstevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »You guys bashing sugar and fat can take a look at my diary entry from yesterday. I did Stronglifts 5x5 and a small amount of cycling (only about 150 calories), and even with all of what many consider "junk food" in my day, I won't gain an ounce (of fat; water is another story, but meh). Know why? Because I burned more than I consumed. That's how it works.
Let me guess...you don't have PCOS.
PCOS doesn't break the laws of physics.
It's more like chemistry, actually.
Chemistry obeys the laws of physics too. Everything does. Energy can't be created or destroyed, every action requires energy. Nothing on this planet can change that.
Currently I am an apple. Perhaps later this afternoon I will be a marshmallow. For dinner, I shall be chicken buffalo dip.
Oh, dear. I had some piggie and some veggies for lunch. Am I a pig or a vegetable? Thank goodness I didn't have those nuts I almost had.
And WHY am I being insulted!
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Since I never studied physics, I will skip pretending to be an expert in the field. I did, however, study chemistry (much of which I don't remember, especially Organic Chem) and Anatomy, so I can at least pretend to be an expert, even though I'm not.BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT is also a law of physics. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EATstevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »You guys bashing sugar and fat can take a look at my diary entry from yesterday. I did Stronglifts 5x5 and a small amount of cycling (only about 150 calories), and even with all of what many consider "junk food" in my day, I won't gain an ounce (of fat; water is another story, but meh). Know why? Because I burned more than I consumed. That's how it works.
Let me guess...you don't have PCOS.
PCOS doesn't break the laws of physics.
It's more like chemistry, actually.
Chemistry obeys the laws of physics too. Everything does. Energy can't be created or destroyed, every action requires energy. Nothing on this planet can change that.
It's always garbage out, regardless of what goes in.
Healthy bodies keep what they need and some of what they might need and they send the rest out.
Let online people eat what they want. Their junk food doesn't make you less healthy. You don't run around the grocery store yelling at people who pick up a bag of Oreos or a Stouffer's dinner, do you? Of course not. Take that same approach online.
If someone else eats a more healthy (or less healthy) diet, it can't change anyone else's health, plan or weight loss. Fwiw.0 -
Interesting NIH article by Richard Feinman and others (my italics):
"A review of simple thermodynamic principles shows that weight change on isocaloric diets is not expected to be independent of path (metabolism of macronutrients) and indeed such a general principle would be a violation of the second law. Homeostatic mechanisms are able to insure that, a good deal of the time, weight does not fluctuate much with changes in diet – this might be said to be the true "miraculous metabolic effect" – but it is subject to many exceptions. The idea that this is theoretically required in all cases is mistakenly based on equilibrium, reversible conditions that do not hold for living organisms and an insufficient appreciation of the second law. The second law of thermodynamics says that variation of efficiency for different metabolic pathways is to be expected. Thus, ironically the dictum that a "calorie is a calorie" violates the second law of thermodynamics, as a matter of principle.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC506782/0 -
Since I never studied physics, I will skip pretending to be an expert in the field. I did, however, study chemistry (much of which I don't remember, especially Organic Chem) and Anatomy, so I can at least pretend to be an expert, even though I'm not.BILLBRYTAN wrote: »
GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT is also a law of physics. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EATstevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »azulvioleta6 wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »You guys bashing sugar and fat can take a look at my diary entry from yesterday. I did Stronglifts 5x5 and a small amount of cycling (only about 150 calories), and even with all of what many consider "junk food" in my day, I won't gain an ounce (of fat; water is another story, but meh). Know why? Because I burned more than I consumed. That's how it works.
Let me guess...you don't have PCOS.
PCOS doesn't break the laws of physics.
It's more like chemistry, actually.
Chemistry obeys the laws of physics too. Everything does. Energy can't be created or destroyed, every action requires energy. Nothing on this planet can change that.
It's always garbage out, regardless of what goes in.
This is an excellent point.0 -
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I don't avoid fat, but cutting fat is my best diet tool because fat is what I overeat most. Olive oil especially. I love the stuff. I put it on just about everything. Lots of it. Too much of it.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I don't avoid fat, but cutting fat is my best diet tool because fat is what I overeat most. Olive oil especially. I love the stuff. I put it on just about everything. Lots of it. Too much of it.
Bread dipped in olive oil and spices. Amazing, and I could clear an entire loaf of bread (which is just transport for the oil).0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I don't avoid fat, but cutting fat is my best diet tool because fat is what I overeat most. Olive oil especially. I love the stuff. I put it on just about everything. Lots of it. Too much of it.
Bread dipped in olive oil and spices. Amazing, and I could clear an entire loaf of bread (which is just transport for the oil).
Ditto!0 -
Interesting NIH article by Richard Feinman and others (my italics):
"A review of simple thermodynamic principles shows that weight change on isocaloric diets is not expected to be independent of path (metabolism of macronutrients) and indeed such a general principle would be a violation of the second law. Homeostatic mechanisms are able to insure that, a good deal of the time, weight does not fluctuate much with changes in diet – this might be said to be the true "miraculous metabolic effect" – but it is subject to many exceptions. The idea that this is theoretically required in all cases is mistakenly based on equilibrium, reversible conditions that do not hold for living organisms and an insufficient appreciation of the second law. The second law of thermodynamics says that variation of efficiency for different metabolic pathways is to be expected. Thus, ironically the dictum that a "calorie is a calorie" violates the second law of thermodynamics, as a matter of principle.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC506782/
A calorie is only then not a calorie if you're looking at tiny, for 90% of the population irrelevant details.
Of course there's some small differences in the efficiency of metabolism between different foods.
Those only account for a handful of calories in difference for most people. Then there's up and downregulations of your metabolism in reaction to small changes in intake, etc. etc. It's all really interesting to read about, but mostly useless for someone trying to lose weight as the changes are too small to completely offset a proper deficit.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/899S.full
The title of his article is purposely chosen to sound like the way it does, and looking at a few other publications of his, that doesn't seem to be uncommon for him.0
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