How do you know if you have plateaued?
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daniwilford wrote: »I am so grateful for people who continue to post the truth even when they might be labeled as "Nasty". These tough skinned people are continually calling people out who offer incorrect advice. If you search through threads you see the same people consistently combating misinformation with facts, science, and success to back up what they say.
That's what we're here for, ma'am.
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Never allow people to try to badger you into opening your diary. Most of the people who do that just want to make fun of what they find AND it's against the MFP rules to even badger people about it. You're entitled to your privacy.Whatever, pointless arguing with you. A couple of you derailed MY thread by essentially getting pissy pants because I chose which poster to respond to (free country and last time I checked I had that right) and accusing me of "only hearing what I want to". That is especially funny since you, SexyStef, clearly didn't read my last post or any of my posts and took only what you needed from them to get all defensive and irritated. I saidThis doesn't mean we are screwed, will never lose weight, but it does mean that the simple CICO method based on a stable BMR may not be accurate for the majority of obese people. It is able to be overcome with exercise and strict adherence to diet, but it is slow going and difficult.
and your "come back" was the quote the article I posted THAT SAID THE EXACT SAME THING.This article does not minimize the role of personal will and commitment in achieving long-term weight loss...
<snip>
In contrast, combined with the message that long-term weight loss is difficult but achievable,
<snip>
may induce more individuals to become committed to making lasting lifestyle changes to achieve and maintain a healthy weight.
<snip>
In one study, a group of overweight women (average BMI ∼ 29 kg/m2) were kept on a low-calorie diet for a period of time until their BMI decreased to < 25 kg/m2, the defined upper range of what is considered normal weight.26
Also, nice shaming attempt. My diary is private because that is my choice, I don't care for my friends and family on here to know every bite of food I eat. How does having it open even prove accuracy anyways? I could totally mess up and say I had 1 TBSP of PB when I had 3, and someone seeing that on my open log does exactly zero to "show" that.and if you are so sure of your logging accuracy open your diary (won't hold my breath for that) because it's about more than just weighing your food...it's about consistently logging and choosing correct entries
So done with this thread. Requesting it be closed.
Thanks those of you who actually suggested ideas like Trendweight graph and shared their own approaches to weight stalling out, and reassured me that it happens sometimes without it being "bad logging". It was helpful.
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If you job or hit the gym, simple your gaining muscle, if you dont you are way under in calories and your body is probably lacking the proper nutrients it needs so your probably retaining water aka water weight. Remember its not about losing weight its about lowering body fat% which may or may not lead to weight loss.0
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jaketaylor1391 wrote: »If you job or hit the gym, simple your gaining muscle, if you dont you are way under in calories and your body is probably lacking the proper nutrients it needs so your probably retaining water aka water weight. Remember its not about losing weight its about lowering body fat% which may or may not lead to weight loss.
You are going to have newbie gains in a deficit. You cannot build significant muscle in a deficit.
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missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »If you job or hit the gym, simple your gaining muscle, if you dont you are way under in calories and your body is probably lacking the proper nutrients it needs so your probably retaining water aka water weight. Remember its not about losing weight its about lowering body fat% which may or may not lead to weight loss.
You are going to have newbie gains in a deficit. You cannot build significant muscle in a deficit.
Im just giving my personally advice mainly because when i cut i go from around 170 to 158ish but i drop from around 15% bf to 10 - 9%bf. Most people i know who drop into single digit bf lose around 20-25 lb i continue to gain muscle even on a deficit because i keep my workouts at a high volume and i do not drop my carbs and proteins like alot of people do. I know for many people this is not the case but im just giving her another possible reason for her situation.0 -
jaketaylor1391 wrote: »missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »If you job or hit the gym, simple your gaining muscle, if you dont you are way under in calories and your body is probably lacking the proper nutrients it needs so your probably retaining water aka water weight. Remember its not about losing weight its about lowering body fat% which may or may not lead to weight loss.
You are going to have newbie gains in a deficit. You cannot build significant muscle in a deficit.
Im just giving my personally advice mainly because when i cut i go from around 170 to 158ish but i drop from around 15% bf to 10 - 9%bf. Most people i know who drop into single digit bf lose around 20-25 lb i continue to gain muscle even on a deficit because i keep my workouts at a high volume and i do not drop my carbs and proteins like alot of people do. I know for many people this is not the case but im just giving her another possible reason for her situation.
She's not going to recomp in 6-9 days.
She's not going to gain the amount of weight she mentioned in muscle in the amount of time she says she's stalled.
She's most likely does not have the same BF% goals as you do.
This advice does not apply to her. You have most likely been cutting/bulking for a significant amount of time. Not a week.
Weight loss isn't linear. Most "stalls" can be attributed to water weight, or if they go on for several weeks, more calories in than are being expended, or overestimated calorie burns.0 -
So I have stopped losing weight. In fact I have gained weight, as much as 6 lbs in the middle of last week and down to 2 lbs over my most recent lowest weight now (which was 9 days ago). I am so frustrated and have no idea what is going on. I gave it a week, thinking maybe I just retained water but it has been OVER a week and still showing that I gained. There is no caloric reason for this, and I am VERY careful with my calories and actually borderline obsessive with weighing every bite I eat. I have my goals set to lose 1.5 lbs a week and have been finishing significantly under that goal each week. Last week I finished 1,545 calories under the goal, week before that 1,610 under, and this week I will finish out at least 1100 calories under (if I eat exactly my goal today which is unlikely). So that is, using the 3,500 calories in a lb of body fat equation, almost consistently half a pound MORE a week I should be losing...so 2 lbs a week. So why am I gaining, or at least not losing? How long should I give it before I fully declare I have plateaued and what should I do to fix that? Don't say eat even less calories as I cannot do that safely, most days I am consuming around 1300 a day so I am only 100 calories away from the minimum safe amount I should be consuming. So I can't safely eat any less than I already am eating, and right now for medical reasons I cannot exercise (have an appointment to see a pulmonologist as I cannot exert myself without my O2 levels dropping, likely because of the 2 bouts of pneumonia last year). I feel so stuck and getting frustrated.
If you are 100% sure your logging is tight look at:- Your cycle: is it your TOM soon?
- Your intake: have you consumed higher than normal amounts of sodium lately?
- Your exercise: how do you calculate your burns? How much do you eat back?
- Your food: since you are weighing food, are you carefully checking database entries, and using USDA entries when you can? I've found inaccuracies in my intake before by clicking on the additional info of the entries I use, and cross checking them to my labels/packages/USDA website.
I've gained 5+ pounds in a day before. I've had "gains" over the course of the week that magically disappear over time. Weight loss isn't linear, and sometimes things like more salt than usual, your TOM, or a bigger meal than usual + bodily waste inside of you can cause artificial weight gain.
Give it a month. I know that it's a long time, but if this pattern is persistant for 4-6 weeks, then there is a problem somewhere, and you'll have to experiment with your exercise/intake/ect to see the root of the problem.
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missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »If you job or hit the gym, simple your gaining muscle, if you dont you are way under in calories and your body is probably lacking the proper nutrients it needs so your probably retaining water aka water weight. Remember its not about losing weight its about lowering body fat% which may or may not lead to weight loss.
You are going to have newbie gains in a deficit. You cannot build significant muscle in a deficit.
Im just giving my personally advice mainly because when i cut i go from around 170 to 158ish but i drop from around 15% bf to 10 - 9%bf. Most people i know who drop into single digit bf lose around 20-25 lb i continue to gain muscle even on a deficit because i keep my workouts at a high volume and i do not drop my carbs and proteins like alot of people do. I know for many people this is not the case but im just giving her another possible reason for her situation.
She's not going to recomp in 6-9 days.
She's not going to gain the amount of weight she mentioned in muscle in the amount of time she says she's stalled.
She's most likely does not have the same BF% goals as you do.
This advice does not apply to her. You have most likely been cutting/bulking for a significant amount of time. Not a week.
Weight loss isn't linear. Most "stalls" can be attributed to water weight, or if they go on for several weeks, more calories in than are being expended, or overestimated calorie burns.
Where obviously coming at this comment with two different backgrounds, but the only thing im trying to get at is the scale doesnt mean crap, Its the bf% that matters. If u weigh 160 with a 9% bf u are gunna look good but if its a high bf your gunna look awful. Im just trying to get the point of do not over obsess about your weight, yea its nice to see it go down a few pounds but your weight is one of the smaller factors behind why u are slim or why you are not. And the reason i say slim is because i assume most people diet to look better.0 -
jaketaylor1391 wrote: »missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »If you job or hit the gym, simple your gaining muscle, if you dont you are way under in calories and your body is probably lacking the proper nutrients it needs so your probably retaining water aka water weight. Remember its not about losing weight its about lowering body fat% which may or may not lead to weight loss.
You are going to have newbie gains in a deficit. You cannot build significant muscle in a deficit.
Im just giving my personally advice mainly because when i cut i go from around 170 to 158ish but i drop from around 15% bf to 10 - 9%bf. Most people i know who drop into single digit bf lose around 20-25 lb i continue to gain muscle even on a deficit because i keep my workouts at a high volume and i do not drop my carbs and proteins like alot of people do. I know for many people this is not the case but im just giving her another possible reason for her situation.
She's not going to recomp in 6-9 days.
She's not going to gain the amount of weight she mentioned in muscle in the amount of time she says she's stalled.
She's most likely does not have the same BF% goals as you do.
This advice does not apply to her. You have most likely been cutting/bulking for a significant amount of time. Not a week.
Weight loss isn't linear. Most "stalls" can be attributed to water weight, or if they go on for several weeks, more calories in than are being expended, or overestimated calorie burns.
Where obviously coming at this comment with two different backgrounds, but the only thing im trying to get at is the scale doesnt mean crap, Its the bf% that matters. If u weigh 160 with a 9% bf u are gunna look good but if its a high bf your gunna look awful. Im just trying to get the point of do not over obsess about your weight, yea its nice to see it go down a few pounds but your weight is one of the smaller factors behind why u are slim or why you are not. And the reason i say slim is because i assume most people diet to look better.
Can we watch the body shaming language, please? Not all people "diet" to look better. Some want to reel in pre-diabetes before it escalates. Some want to create a better relationship with food. Some need to manage symptoms of an intolerance or PCOS. Some do want to lose weight or recomp. Additionally, not everyone's end goal is to be slender.
Saying people look awful with a higher body fat percentage is awful. I know you probably did not mean it the way that you wrote it, but you need to be careful with your language.
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missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »If you job or hit the gym, simple your gaining muscle, if you dont you are way under in calories and your body is probably lacking the proper nutrients it needs so your probably retaining water aka water weight. Remember its not about losing weight its about lowering body fat% which may or may not lead to weight loss.
You are going to have newbie gains in a deficit. You cannot build significant muscle in a deficit.
Im just giving my personally advice mainly because when i cut i go from around 170 to 158ish but i drop from around 15% bf to 10 - 9%bf. Most people i know who drop into single digit bf lose around 20-25 lb i continue to gain muscle even on a deficit because i keep my workouts at a high volume and i do not drop my carbs and proteins like alot of people do. I know for many people this is not the case but im just giving her another possible reason for her situation.
She's not going to recomp in 6-9 days.
She's not going to gain the amount of weight she mentioned in muscle in the amount of time she says she's stalled.
She's most likely does not have the same BF% goals as you do.
This advice does not apply to her. You have most likely been cutting/bulking for a significant amount of time. Not a week.
Weight loss isn't linear. Most "stalls" can be attributed to water weight, or if they go on for several weeks, more calories in than are being expended, or overestimated calorie burns.
Where obviously coming at this comment with two different backgrounds, but the only thing im trying to get at is the scale doesnt mean crap, Its the bf% that matters. If u weigh 160 with a 9% bf u are gunna look good but if its a high bf your gunna look awful. Im just trying to get the point of do not over obsess about your weight, yea its nice to see it go down a few pounds but your weight is one of the smaller factors behind why u are slim or why you are not. And the reason i say slim is because i assume most people diet to look better.
Can we watch the body shaming language, please? Not all people "diet" to look better. Some want to reel in pre-diabetes before it escalates. Some want to create a better relationship with food. Some need to manage symptoms of an intolerance or PCOS. Some do want to lose weight or recomp. Additionally, not everyone's end goal is to be slender.
Saying people look awful with a higher body fat percentage is awful. I know you probably did not mean it the way that you wrote it, but you need to be careful with your language.
Very true i see your point0 -
jaketaylor1391 wrote: »missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »If you job or hit the gym, simple your gaining muscle, if you dont you are way under in calories and your body is probably lacking the proper nutrients it needs so your probably retaining water aka water weight. Remember its not about losing weight its about lowering body fat% which may or may not lead to weight loss.
You are going to have newbie gains in a deficit. You cannot build significant muscle in a deficit.
Im just giving my personally advice mainly because when i cut i go from around 170 to 158ish but i drop from around 15% bf to 10 - 9%bf. Most people i know who drop into single digit bf lose around 20-25 lb i continue to gain muscle even on a deficit because i keep my workouts at a high volume and i do not drop my carbs and proteins like alot of people do. I know for many people this is not the case but im just giving her another possible reason for her situation.
She's not going to recomp in 6-9 days.
She's not going to gain the amount of weight she mentioned in muscle in the amount of time she says she's stalled.
She's most likely does not have the same BF% goals as you do.
This advice does not apply to her. You have most likely been cutting/bulking for a significant amount of time. Not a week.
Weight loss isn't linear. Most "stalls" can be attributed to water weight, or if they go on for several weeks, more calories in than are being expended, or overestimated calorie burns.
Where obviously coming at this comment with two different backgrounds, but the only thing im trying to get at is the scale doesnt mean crap, Its the bf% that matters. If u weigh 160 with a 9% bf u are gunna look good but if its a high bf your gunna look awful. Im just trying to get the point of do not over obsess about your weight, yea its nice to see it go down a few pounds but your weight is one of the smaller factors behind why u are slim or why you are not. And the reason i say slim is because i assume most people diet to look better.
Also Women and Men have different body fat goals ...a woman with a body fat of 9% would be close to dead
just sayin'0 -
Never allow people to try to badger you into opening your diary. Most of the people who do that just want to make fun of what they find AND it's against the MFP rules to even badger people about it. You're entitled to your privacy.
Yea, didn't seem like her reason for requesting I make my journal public were because she wanted to "support" me for sure. Her pattern of posting likely means if I did make it public she would do exactly what you said.jaketaylor1391 wrote: »Im just giving my personally advice mainly because when i cut i go from around 170 to 158ish but i drop from around 15% bf to 10 - 9%bf. Most people i know who drop into single digit bf lose around 20-25 lb i continue to gain muscle even on a deficit because i keep my workouts at a high volume and i do not drop my carbs and proteins like alot of people do. I know for many people this is not the case but im just giving her another possible reason for her situation.
I have a scale that supposedly measures my body fat, but considering it shows my body fat varying from day to day by as much as 2%...I doubt it is accurate! I know what you are saying, and if I was working out and strength training like I was last time it would probably be the case since muscle weighs more than fat so I have definitely seen it happen before where my measurements decreased as my weight went up a little. Usually it adjusts quickly though and I start losing again, which didn't happen this time.missiontofitness wrote: »If you are 100% sure your logging is tight look at:- Your cycle: is it your TOM soon?
- Your intake: have you consumed higher than normal amounts of sodium lately?
- Your exercise: how do you calculate your burns? How much do you eat back?
- Your food: since you are weighing food, are you carefully checking database entries, and using USDA entries when you can? I've found inaccuracies in my intake before by clicking on the additional info of the entries I use, and cross checking them to my labels/packages/USDA website.
Hm, all good things to consider. Interesting enough I had just started eating tacos as a dinner because I discovered they were low cal but the spice mix does contain quite a bit of sodium, possibly my culprit! Not exercising ATM, medical issues need to be ironed out before I attempt that. I usually do crosscheck my labels with entries, and usually my diet is pretty consistent (I eat pretty much the same 5-6 things) so I don't think something I am eating was too far off if it was off as I was losing before now. I will give it a few more weeks, if it doesn't budge by then I will probably go see doc to make sure my Thyroid is ok (I do have hypothyroidism but it shouldn't be effecting me as I am on medication).
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Also, to be clear here to anyone who looks at this...cheat days are bad. Don't do them. That has been a slippery slope to recover from, not recommended.0
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jaketaylor1391 wrote: »missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »If you job or hit the gym, simple your gaining muscle, if you dont you are way under in calories and your body is probably lacking the proper nutrients it needs so your probably retaining water aka water weight. Remember its not about losing weight its about lowering body fat% which may or may not lead to weight loss.
You are going to have newbie gains in a deficit. You cannot build significant muscle in a deficit.
Im just giving my personally advice mainly because when i cut i go from around 170 to 158ish but i drop from around 15% bf to 10 - 9%bf. Most people i know who drop into single digit bf lose around 20-25 lb i continue to gain muscle even on a deficit because i keep my workouts at a high volume and i do not drop my carbs and proteins like alot of people do. I know for many people this is not the case but im just giving her another possible reason for her situation.
She's not going to recomp in 6-9 days.
She's not going to gain the amount of weight she mentioned in muscle in the amount of time she says she's stalled.
She's most likely does not have the same BF% goals as you do.
This advice does not apply to her. You have most likely been cutting/bulking for a significant amount of time. Not a week.
Weight loss isn't linear. Most "stalls" can be attributed to water weight, or if they go on for several weeks, more calories in than are being expended, or overestimated calorie burns.
Where obviously coming at this comment with two different backgrounds, but the only thing im trying to get at is the scale doesnt mean crap, Its the bf% that matters. If u weigh 160 with a 9% bf u are gunna look good but if its a high bf your gunna look awful. Im just trying to get the point of do not over obsess about your weight, yea its nice to see it go down a few pounds but your weight is one of the smaller factors behind why u are slim or why you are not. And the reason i say slim is because i assume most people diet to look better.
Also Women and Men have different body fat goals ...a woman with a body fat of 9% would be close to dead
just sayin'
Very unlikely most woman bodybuilders compete at around 5-6% not saying thats healthy but i dont think being 9% body fat would kill a woman.
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Never allow people to try to badger you into opening your diary. Most of the people who do that just want to make fun of what they find AND it's against the MFP rules to even badger people about it. You're entitled to your privacy.
Yea, didn't seem like her reason for requesting I make my journal public were because she wanted to "support" me for sure. Her pattern of posting likely means if I did make it public she would do exactly what you said.jaketaylor1391 wrote: »Im just giving my personally advice mainly because when i cut i go from around 170 to 158ish but i drop from around 15% bf to 10 - 9%bf. Most people i know who drop into single digit bf lose around 20-25 lb i continue to gain muscle even on a deficit because i keep my workouts at a high volume and i do not drop my carbs and proteins like alot of people do. I know for many people this is not the case but im just giving her another possible reason for her situation.
I have a scale that supposedly measures my body fat, but considering it shows my body fat varying from day to day by as much as 2%...I doubt it is accurate! I know what you are saying, and if I was working out and strength training like I was last time it would probably be the case since muscle weighs more than fat so I have definitely seen it happen before where my measurements decreased as my weight went up a little. Usually it adjusts quickly though and I start losing again, which didn't happen this time.missiontofitness wrote: »If you are 100% sure your logging is tight look at:- Your cycle: is it your TOM soon?
- Your intake: have you consumed higher than normal amounts of sodium lately?
- Your exercise: how do you calculate your burns? How much do you eat back?
- Your food: since you are weighing food, are you carefully checking database entries, and using USDA entries when you can? I've found inaccuracies in my intake before by clicking on the additional info of the entries I use, and cross checking them to my labels/packages/USDA website.
Hm, all good things to consider. Interesting enough I had just started eating tacos as a dinner because I discovered they were low cal but the spice mix does contain quite a bit of sodium, possibly my culprit! Not exercising ATM, medical issues need to be ironed out before I attempt that. I usually do crosscheck my labels with entries, and usually my diet is pretty consistent (I eat pretty much the same 5-6 things) so I don't think something I am eating was too far off if it was off as I was losing before now. I will give it a few more weeks, if it doesn't budge by then I will probably go see doc to make sure my Thyroid is ok (I do have hypothyroidism but it shouldn't be effecting me as I am on medication).
This is sensible
(PS the scale and body fat you can use it over months and months to track progress on BF .. but never consider the actual figure anywhere close to accurate .. it can be out by a huge margin, mine is around 7% out)0 -
Hm, all good things to consider. Interesting enough I had just started eating tacos as a dinner because I discovered they were low cal but the spice mix does contain quite a bit of sodium, possibly my culprit! Not exercising ATM, medical issues need to be ironed out before I attempt that. I usually do crosscheck my labels with entries, and usually my diet is pretty consistent (I eat pretty much the same 5-6 things) so I don't think something I am eating was too far off if it was off as I was losing before now. I will give it a few more weeks, if it doesn't budge by then I will probably go see doc to make sure my Thyroid is ok (I do have hypothyroidism but it shouldn't be effecting me as I am on medication).
Yep; those packets can hide a bit! I've learned how to make my own. I don't like my seasoning to be too salty; I'd rather it make my eyes water and make me question all the life decisions that got me to that meal. I find it tastes better than the spice mixes you get in the Tex-Mex aisle, since you can adjust the seasonings to your taste.
Sounds like you've got a good game plan in place from this post!0 -
jaketaylor1391 wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »missiontofitness wrote: »jaketaylor1391 wrote: »If you job or hit the gym, simple your gaining muscle, if you dont you are way under in calories and your body is probably lacking the proper nutrients it needs so your probably retaining water aka water weight. Remember its not about losing weight its about lowering body fat% which may or may not lead to weight loss.
You are going to have newbie gains in a deficit. You cannot build significant muscle in a deficit.
Im just giving my personally advice mainly because when i cut i go from around 170 to 158ish but i drop from around 15% bf to 10 - 9%bf. Most people i know who drop into single digit bf lose around 20-25 lb i continue to gain muscle even on a deficit because i keep my workouts at a high volume and i do not drop my carbs and proteins like alot of people do. I know for many people this is not the case but im just giving her another possible reason for her situation.
She's not going to recomp in 6-9 days.
She's not going to gain the amount of weight she mentioned in muscle in the amount of time she says she's stalled.
She's most likely does not have the same BF% goals as you do.
This advice does not apply to her. You have most likely been cutting/bulking for a significant amount of time. Not a week.
Weight loss isn't linear. Most "stalls" can be attributed to water weight, or if they go on for several weeks, more calories in than are being expended, or overestimated calorie burns.
Where obviously coming at this comment with two different backgrounds, but the only thing im trying to get at is the scale doesnt mean crap, Its the bf% that matters. If u weigh 160 with a 9% bf u are gunna look good but if its a high bf your gunna look awful. Im just trying to get the point of do not over obsess about your weight, yea its nice to see it go down a few pounds but your weight is one of the smaller factors behind why u are slim or why you are not. And the reason i say slim is because i assume most people diet to look better.
Also Women and Men have different body fat goals ...a woman with a body fat of 9% would be close to dead
just sayin'
Very unlikely most woman bodybuilders compete at around 5-6% not saying thats healthy but i dont think being 9% body fat would kill a woman.
No they don't
Essential body fat for a woman is 10-13%0 -
Hey Jezahb.
Like you I find it trying when a two week plateau appears and wonder about set points and alterations of metabolism and the bodies general ability to adapt to any kind of routine. In my attempt to change composition/weight I have used several tools including; Calorie/Carb cycling, Resistance exercise (amateur Iron Eater,) HIIT and low heart rate fat zone exercise. All of which work very well when applied correctly.
From what I can tell, scant detail has actually been offered (please purely an observation in know way meant critically) As to your routine both dietary and physically. For instance What are your macro %'s be really useful to know. What is your weekly activity routine. These can be offered without disclosing your diary which I can understand reluctance to do. Judgement can sometimes be harsh and swift from neggers! on the net) .
I imagine if you are truly plateauing, which only time can prove, possibily a minor but significant tweak in ratios may aid you in kickstarting things.
Here's my logic having read several of the studies you have cited and several others I would agree that set points are real but perhaps less limiting than we could be lead to believe. As we all know countless people who successfully smash through apparent barriers so how can we do it.
If the body adapts to a set of calories or a set of macros or one routine or another perhaps all we need is to alter this routine whatever it is. Don't get me wrong the solution may need a little time to really take hold and rev your fat loss engine. However I encourage you to stick it out, I have been at it years and only now getting anywhere near where I want to be. But I feel great and I am fitter than ever!
My next question/recommendation would be have you or do use Intermittent Fasting??
Hope this helps and we can get you re-motivated!! Chris, UK
PS; cheat days can be bad but cheat meals are fine. However a Re-feed could be very good. This is where the body gets an overspill of Carbs while maintaining a low fat intake on any given day. This can help reset or re-fire the hormone Leptin which can become problematic in periods of pro-longed dieting/caloric deficit.
PPS; Every diet stall or issue will almost always have a hormonal explanation understanding hormones can be complex, but heck its useful!!0 -
ChristopherWhite1 wrote: »Hey Jezahb.
Like you I find it trying when a two week plateau appears and wonder about set points and alterations of metabolism and the bodies general ability to adapt to any kind of routine. In my attempt to change composition/weight I have used several tools including; Calorie/Carb cycling, Resistance exercise (amateur Iron Eater,) HIIT and low heart rate fat zone exercise. All of which work very well when applied correctly.
but 2 weeks is not a plateau it is a standard stall so anything you try, and the effectiveness of it, cannot be judged as if your are logging properly it will simply go naturally ...all the changes are completely unnecessary to weight loss and should only be followed if you just enjoy changing it up
From what I can tell, scant detail has actually been offered (please purely an observation in know way meant critically) As to your routine both dietary and physically. For instance What are your macro %'s be really useful to know. What is your weekly activity routine. These can be offered without disclosing your diary which I can understand reluctance to do. Judgement can sometimes be harsh and swift from neggers! on the net) .
macros are important for health did agree but not weight loss where calorie defecit rules
I imagine if you are truly plateauing, which only time can prove, possibily a minor but significant tweak in ratios may aid you in kickstarting things.
there is no kick starting apart from playing with water weight through carb and sodium reduction and there's little point, apart from psychological, in doing that
Here's my logic having read several of the studies you have cited and several others I would agree that set points are real but perhaps less limiting than we could be lead to believe. As we all know countless people who successfully smash through apparent barriers so how can we do it.
If the body adapts to a set of calories or a set of macros or one routine or another perhaps all we need is to alter this routine whatever it is. Don't get me wrong the solution may need a little time to really take hold and rev your fat loss engine. However I encourage you to stick it out, I have been at it years and only now getting anywhere near where I want to be. But I feel great and I am fitter than ever!
body doesn't need tricking! doesn't adapt like that... agree that it just needs time and focus and if she keeps logging accurately it will happen
My next question/recommendation would be have you or do use Intermittent Fasting??
Hope this helps and we can get you re-motivated!! Chris, UK
PS; cheat days can be bad but cheat meals are fine. However a Re-feed could be very good. This is where the body gets an overspill of Carbs while maintaining a low fat intake on any given day. This can help reset or re-fire the hormone Leptin which can become problematic in periods of pro-longed dieting/caloric deficit.
PPS; Every diet stall or issue will almost always have a hormonal explanation understanding hormones can be complex, but heck its useful!!
Weight loss isn't linear
It just isn't
Hormones, change up in exercise, sodium
Whooshes
That's how it works
Patience is the key and renewed focus on accurate logging0 -
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What is it, exactly, that you think people mean when they say muscle weighs more than fat? Or that iron weighs more than styrofoam? You don't think they're necessarily implying equal volumes? It's quite common English usage to say "weighs more than" in place of "is more dense than."Muscle doesn't weigh more than fat, it takes up less space, but it does not weigh more.
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I was with you that adaptive thermogenesis probably occurs with prolonged periods of eating at a deficit (and with larger deficits). I was certainly not with you when you contemplated short periods of eating at maintenance to counteract that.
But, I just cannot even comprehend why you would pick the words "tablespoon", and "peanut butter" and put them together in a sentence that is supposed to convey that you log your food accurately.
+1
I USED to measure inaccurately(but of course, like OP, I thought I was doing it right), until I got a scale and actually realized how much more I was eating!
But my $.02- 2 weeks is not a stall
- CICO is the way to go. You need to burn more than you eat.
- Log everything, weigh solid/measure liquid. Even if your diary isn't open, you can compare sodium intake to weight fluctuations or maybe just a bad week to a "slight" gain!
If you're not willing to "wait around" to see if you hit a plateau down the road, and would rather give up(as you said in previous posts) then you're not as dedicated to this as you say you are. You need to be 100% willing to make this a lifestyle change, and it WILL NOT happen over night! I started at 248.8, and am down 45lb as of this morning. I still have a MINIMUM of 50 pounds to go, but I am patient with this process, and loving the results that I have so far! It will come, just remain patient and accurate!!!
What other users are telling you on here is true! Listen to them, because they have "been there/done that" and they are only trying to help! They are truthful and honest because THAT is how they got to be where they are now!!! Would you rather listen to somebody that has zig-zagged but never made it all the way to maintenance, or would you want to hear if from somebody that has made it to maintenance and has been in maintenance for a few months-years? I choose the one that did it right!
ETA: I only mention these things because I once sought out help from the forum members before, and they truly are helpful if you are willing to get their advice! I am no expert on weight loss but these are things that work, and they're proven to work. Just stay committed, tighten up on logging, and be patient! I have to tell myself that every morning because I do NOT want to go back to where I was before! Open your mind to their advice and consider their experiences-look at where they are! Do you want to be there too!?0 -
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I started here in Jan and have since read a lot of threads and posts and you guys along with other few seasoned members are my weight loss idols @rabbitjb @missiontofitness @DeguelloTex @SezxyStef lol.
I have learned so much about how weight loss works and the myths from the correct and accurate advise you guys continually give, whether ppl want to believe it or not. Thank you!!
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I think we can agree that it is very, very, very rarely the case that someone's scale isn't moving because they are gaining muscle at the same rate they're gaining fat.DeguelloTex wrote: »
What is it, exactly, that you think people mean when they say muscle weighs more than fat? Or that iron weighs more than styrofoam? You don't think they're necessarily implying equal volumes? It's quite common English usage to say "weighs more than" in place of "is more dense than."Muscle doesn't weigh more than fat, it takes up less space, but it does not weigh more.
What they mean is wrong on a variety of levels. Just the basic definition first and foremost. Secondly, it us wrong because it is usually coupled with the sentiment that you are losing weight, but gaining muscle and that is why the scale has not gone down or why it went up. However, we know that unless it is under very specific circumstances people are not losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time. One happens in a deficit and one happens in a surplus.
However, again, it's common usage to say something is heavier than another thing even if "denser" would be more suitable. I submit that very few people are arguing that a pound of muscle weighs more than a pound of fat. Consideration of volume is inherent in the statement. "This brick weighs more than that brick" makes the speaker's thoughts pretty clear, even if "This brick is denser than that brick" is more scientifically accurate. Yes, a pound of the first brick weighs the same as a pound of the second brick.
It seems like it would be much more productive to focus on the "no, you're not gaining muscle to offset your fat loss" part of the discussion than trying to herd everyone toward saying "denser" rather than "heavier" since, even if they used "denser" it still wouldn't change the flawed pseudo-recomp argument, which is really the main mistake.
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I started here in Jan and have since read a lot of threads and posts and you guys along with other few seasoned members are my weight loss idols @rabbitjb @missiontofitness @DeguelloTex @SezxyStef lol.
I have learned so much about how weight loss works and the myths from the correct and accurate advise you guys continually give, whether ppl want to believe it or not. Thank you!!
@jazzine1 thank you so much for that. I was getting to the point of giving up if I'm honest ...it's been like an endless tide of bro-science, half-truths and ridiculously entrenched factless myths (not here, but the board in general)
..but if what I, and others, keep repeating is getting through to people, even if not the OP, maybe it's not so pointless trying to keep saying it
I owe my success to reading the people who came before me ..hopefully people like you will start to take our places..because I can see an end to me posting here ...although not quite yet0 -
I started here in Jan and have since read a lot of threads and posts and you guys along with other few seasoned members are my weight loss idols @rabbitjb @missiontofitness @DeguelloTex @SezxyStef lol.
I have learned so much about how weight loss works and the myths from the correct and accurate advise you guys continually give, whether ppl want to believe it or not. Thank you!!
@jazzine1 thank you so much for that. I was getting to the point of giving up if I'm honest ...it's been like an endless tide of bro-science, half-truths and ridiculously entrenched factless myths (not here, but the board in general)
..but if what I, and others, keep repeating is getting through to people, even if not the OP, maybe it's not so pointless trying to keep saying it
I owe my success to reading the people who came before me ..hopefully people like you will start to take our places..because I can see an end to me posting here ...although not quite yet
Never posted to you before, but you , and the others that post are really helpful and inspiring:) Your honesty in saying what works definitely helps others like me that sometimes don't know if there's a light, even when there are some out there that expects it to be like magic!0 -
Rabbitjb I appreciated your counters/expansions. I guess some of my English may be poor in terms of choice. Trick for instance perhaps should be replaced with encouraging the body to return to a positive hormone environment. Long term caloric deficit can cause Hormonal changes that could result in slight ebbs and flows in the positivity of how you respond to food and training.
Although I do agree with you that two weeks is not a true plateau of any sort I was trying to establish a baseline while offering some possible insight as to why things may have slowed if not stalled. Be interesting to know numbers of the OP as these (I feel) would affect how we look at the situation described. I agree that weight loss in my experience is not always Linear but this assumes in all situations all calories are perfectly logged and controlled and yet still weight loss does not follow the mathematics and as you put it, the basic Calorie deficit rule is truly King but do you not think advocating a balanced strategy will affect composition thus affecting future ability to burn calories freely.
I agree with you on most points but with caution as you kind of present a Juxtaposition or contradiction. If calories deficit remains Linear then by logic so should weight loss or fat loss. If the losses are not linear then perhaps things are changing without realisation. Workout intensity etc. Weight loss is never linear due to factor complexity. In out maintenance is not as simple as it may seem.
I think your dismissal of the strength of any kind of physiological advantage is remiss. Placebo affect alone is hugely powerful, even with the knowledge of it being a placebo. Plus the stress of a stall can contribute in changes to hormones and focus but if addressed it could give renewed balance to an approach?
Again tricking is a word that perhaps simplifies too much but my aim is to convey the value of ensuring your body has fats, proteins it needs to respond correctly to training and maximise fat loss.1200 kcal is low and therefore if those macros are out could mean Fats are short enough to hinder hormone regulation. Calorie deficit is king as you have intimated but there is a little more under that surface than sometimes we like to accept. Insulin sensitivity for example could this mean poor carbohydrate response in a high carbohydrate (relative to other macros) diet is causing some adverse reactions? More data is needed before your assertions become facts.
All of which are valid and probably correct but a little complexity could breed a simple solution.0 -
I started here in Jan and have since read a lot of threads and posts and you guys along with other few seasoned members are my weight loss idols @rabbitjb @missiontofitness @DeguelloTex @SezxyStef lol.
I have learned so much about how weight loss works and the myths from the correct and accurate advise you guys continually give, whether ppl want to believe it or not. Thank you!!
Aw! So glad we've been able to help.
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