Protein!?

I just want to know why MFP says I need something like 230 grams a day.

sixxpoint wrote: »

If you are active and not sedentary or obese, then you only need 0.6 to 0.8 grams protein per 1 lb. bodyweight. This is the optimal range to maintain existing muscle and to promote new muscle synthesis.

So that would be 79 to 106 grams per day based on your current weight.

Agree. 81 is on the low end, but not 'too' low. If you go over by a few grams or more, it's not a big deal - provided it's not negatively impacting your other macro goals.

sixxpoint wrote: »

Not sure.

Regardless, it's wrong.

MFP is neither wrong nor right to be honest. Protein consumption is one of those things that for a lack of better words, "optimal" is up-in-the-air. There are SSSSOOOO many studies that say anything from 1.4 gm's / kg of bodyweight for recreational resistance trained individuals, up to 2.3 gm's / kg, as high as 3gm's / kg (pre-contest bodybuilders), to a study that evaluated the effects of 4gm's / kg as excessive calories and the effect on weight gain. The one thing that I would say researchers know, and I use that loosely, is that above 2.2gm's / kg (~1gm / LB) is not useful unless you're a pre-contest bodybuilder and I think the quantity of those studies is limited at that. If the OP is 132lbs then that's approximately 59.6 kg's and at a protein multiplier of 1.4 gm's / kg, that's approximately 83.4 gm's of protein which is why I say MFP isn't necessarily wrong, because 1.4 gm's has show to be effective in some studies.

The best answer I can give you is to watch your progress in your strength training and adjust as you go. If you felt like jumping to 1 gram / LB of BW then do it and maybe that will be better for you. This subject is really tricky to discuss because there are studies that point every which way as to what's "best". I hope I didn't add any confusion to the matter. Cheers!

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

sixxpoint wrote: »

Not sure.

Regardless, it's wrong.

MFP is neither wrong nor right to be honest. Protein consumption is one of those things that for a lack of better words, "optimal" is up-in-the-air. There are SSSSOOOO many studies that say anything from 1.4 gm's / kg of bodyweight for recreational resistance trained individuals, up to 2.3 gm's / kg, as high as 3gm's / kg (pre-contest bodybuilders), to a study that evaluated the effects of 4gm's / kg as excessive calories and the effect on weight gain. The one thing that I would say researchers know, and I use that loosely, is that above 2.2gm's / kg (~1gm / LB) is not useful unless you're a pre-contest bodybuilder and I think the quantity of those studies is limited at that. If the OP is 132lbs then that's approximately 59.6 kg's and at a protein multiplier of 1.4 gm's / kg, that's approximately 83.4 gm's of protein.

Incorrect.

The most current studies all echo the effectiveness of the range I provided, whether you are a bodybuilder, an athlete, or just someone who goes to the gym 4 times per week. The results are all the same; the only difference is the way the studies measure those results, e.g. lean body mass vs. bodyweight or kilograms vs. lbs.

sixxpoint wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

sixxpoint wrote: »

Not sure.

Regardless, it's wrong.

MFP is neither wrong nor right to be honest. Protein consumption is one of those things that for a lack of better words, "optimal" is up-in-the-air. There are SSSSOOOO many studies that say anything from 1.4 gm's / kg of bodyweight for recreational resistance trained individuals, up to 2.3 gm's / kg, as high as 3gm's / kg (pre-contest bodybuilders), to a study that evaluated the effects of 4gm's / kg as excessive calories and the effect on weight gain. The one thing that I would say researchers know, and I use that loosely, is that above 2.2gm's / kg (~1gm / LB) is not useful unless you're a pre-contest bodybuilder and I think the quantity of those studies is limited at that. If the OP is 132lbs then that's approximately 59.6 kg's and at a protein multiplier of 1.4 gm's / kg, that's approximately 83.4 gm's of protein.

Incorrect.

The most current studies all echo the effectiveness of the range I provided. The results are all the same; the only difference is the way the studies measure those results, e.g. lean body mass vs. bodyweight or kilograms vs. lbs.

Dude, check your math.

0.6 gm's / 1LB (low end of what you've read): 132lbs x 0.60 = 79.2
1.4 gm's / 1KG: 59.55kg's (132 lbs) x 1.4 = 83.4

Kinda' talking the same thing no? I just finished my MS degree, I promise that I'm speaking about current research too, our professors had very strict standards on what is current and what's not.

ceoverturf wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

ceoverturf wrote: »

Samm471 wrote: »

ceoverturf wrote: »

Based on the range sixxpoint posted above, you're probably fine.

Okay thank you ... Is it true that protein is stored as fat if too much is consumed or is it used as energy? I heard that the liver struggles to cope with too much protein .. Not sure if that's true or not though

Excess calories - regardless of whether they come from protein, dietary fats, carbs, alcohol, etc - will be stored as fat. Liver and/or even moreso kidneys can suffer damage from too much protein, but we're talking HUGE doses here, not a few extra grams.

That isn't entirely true either. Above I mentioned that there was a study done where an excessive amount of protein was consumed, about 4 gm's / kg if I remember correctly, and the treatment group did not gain weight from the excessive calories derived from the protein consumption.

Did they keep total caloric intake constant, though?

Try and Google it if you're interested, but it had some interesting findings. I'm not sure if there are more out there. Additionally, to my knowledge at least, there are no studies showing negative affect on one's renal function in healthy individuals.

Ahh..yes.. Google. The "If it's on the internet it must be true" crowd's favorite source for scientific data.

I don't recall, you'd have to find the study again. All I remember is that the calories were in excess to some degree. It was only the one study so it's definitely not absolute by any means, but it's an interesting suggestion on excessive calorie consumption.

And NO... it was found in my graduate school's library but you might find on the internet via Google located on PubMed or Google Scholar or XYZ web-site that provides peer reviewed studies. Nice try though...

sixxpoint wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

sixxpoint wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

sixxpoint wrote: »

Not sure.

Regardless, it's wrong.

MFP is neither wrong nor right to be honest. Protein consumption is one of those things that for a lack of better words, "optimal" is up-in-the-air. There are SSSSOOOO many studies that say anything from 1.4 gm's / kg of bodyweight for recreational resistance trained individuals, up to 2.3 gm's / kg, as high as 3gm's / kg (pre-contest bodybuilders), to a study that evaluated the effects of 4gm's / kg as excessive calories and the effect on weight gain. The one thing that I would say researchers know, and I use that loosely, is that above 2.2gm's / kg (~1gm / LB) is not useful unless you're a pre-contest bodybuilder and I think the quantity of those studies is limited at that. If the OP is 132lbs then that's approximately 59.6 kg's and at a protein multiplier of 1.4 gm's / kg, that's approximately 83.4 gm's of protein.

Incorrect.

The most current studies all echo the effectiveness of the range I provided. The results are all the same; the only difference is the way the studies measure those results, e.g. lean body mass vs. bodyweight or kilograms vs. lbs.

Dude, check your math.

0.6 gm's / 1LB (low end of what you've read): 132lbs x 0.60 = 79.2
1.4 gm's / 1KG: 59.55kg's (132 lbs) x 1.4 = 83.4

Kinda' talking the same thing no? I just finished my MS degree, I promise that I'm speaking about current research too, our professors had very strict standards on what is current and what's not.

I don't need to check my math. I know I am accurate.

Your quoted target is simply incorrect when you incorporate the combined results from all of theses studies.

1 to 1.2 grams protein per 1 lb. lean body mass or 0.6 to 0.8 grams protein per 1 lb. bodyweight is what is typically echoed in these studies as optimal... They work out to roughly the same protein goal.

Do they test ranges less or more than this? Of course, but they are not as effective.

Here's the thing and this is what I learned while working on my MS degree, there are very few absolutes in research. You can only "bank" on the quantity of research that implies the same thing in the results and also, if those results are repeatable. I don't discount what you said, I believe there are studies that support exactly what you're saying. But what I'm saying is also accurate as we specifically studied protein consumption in one of my classes.

My point with my "math" comment is that you said 0.6 gm's / lbs was part of the "good" range, but it's almost exactly the same metric as 1.4 gm's / kg. The difference between the two is marginal.

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

sixxpoint wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

sixxpoint wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

sixxpoint wrote: »

Not sure.

Regardless, it's wrong.

MFP is neither wrong nor right to be honest. Protein consumption is one of those things that for a lack of better words, "optimal" is up-in-the-air. There are SSSSOOOO many studies that say anything from 1.4 gm's / kg of bodyweight for recreational resistance trained individuals, up to 2.3 gm's / kg, as high as 3gm's / kg (pre-contest bodybuilders), to a study that evaluated the effects of 4gm's / kg as excessive calories and the effect on weight gain. The one thing that I would say researchers know, and I use that loosely, is that above 2.2gm's / kg (~1gm / LB) is not useful unless you're a pre-contest bodybuilder and I think the quantity of those studies is limited at that. If the OP is 132lbs then that's approximately 59.6 kg's and at a protein multiplier of 1.4 gm's / kg, that's approximately 83.4 gm's of protein.

Incorrect.

The most current studies all echo the effectiveness of the range I provided. The results are all the same; the only difference is the way the studies measure those results, e.g. lean body mass vs. bodyweight or kilograms vs. lbs.

Dude, check your math.

0.6 gm's / 1LB (low end of what you've read): 132lbs x 0.60 = 79.2
1.4 gm's / 1KG: 59.55kg's (132 lbs) x 1.4 = 83.4

Kinda' talking the same thing no? I just finished my MS degree, I promise that I'm speaking about current research too, our professors had very strict standards on what is current and what's not.

I don't need to check my math. I know I am accurate.

Your quoted target is simply incorrect when you incorporate the combined results from all of theses studies.

1 to 1.2 grams protein per 1 lb. lean body mass or 0.6 to 0.8 grams protein per 1 lb. bodyweight is what is typically echoed in these studies as optimal... They work out to roughly the same protein goal.

Do they test ranges less or more than this? Of course, but they are not as effective.

Here's the thing and this is what I learned while working on my MS degree, there are very few absolutes in research. You can only "bank" on the quantity of research that implies the same thing in the results and also, if those results are repeatable. I don't discount what you said, I believe there are studies that support exactly what you're saying. But what I'm saying is also accurate as we specifically studied protein consumption in one of my classes.

Good for you. That's why I gave a range based on 40 years of scientific research. I didn't throw out a single figure or a specific percentage to set your protein macro.