Skipping breakfast

CaptBligh001 wrote: »

ninerbuff wrote: »

Of course with all this muscle though, I'm considered borderline obese on the the BMI scale.

I find it difficult to respect someones personal or professional opinion when they prove to be disingenuous.

Generally, BMI can be considered an effective way to evaluate whether a person is overweight or obese. There is a strong correlation between BMI and body fat percent.

BMI is only one of several a risk assessment tool intended to be used by trained medical professionals. As such it requires knowledge of proper application to ascertain whether it's use is appropriate or not on a case by case basis. It's also common knowledge that certain group of individuals should not use BMI as the basis for determining relative risk of disease.

These include:

• Competitive athletes and body builders. These people may have a high BMI due to a relatively larger amount of muscle mass.
• Women who are pregnant or breast feeding
• Growing children
• Frail and sedentary elderly individuals

This is all common knowledge so I'm surprised that someone with your credentials

"A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition"

I did get those credentials right didn't I ? like I was saying I'm surprised that someone with your credentials wasn't educated or trained in the proper application of BMI screening.

Once again this is all common knowledge therefore attempting to malign the scientific and medical community by creating doubt where none exist not only demonstrates a lack of honor it also demonstrates a lack of integrity or in your case professional integrity.

As my Sensei used to say, do you think it not wise to exercise your mind as much as your muscles.

I'm surprised you didn't catch the sarcasm from my statement.

Feel free to search any of my threads on the forums on BMI. I'm more than sure that my knowledge is legit. BTW your post is Ad Hominem. You didn't bother to answer my question to you about the eating times. Please do.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

CaptBligh001 wrote: »

bioklutz wrote: »

I read the first 3 articles from your search:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26088558
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26102907
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26109287

None of these are telling me why I MUST eat first thing in the morning. None of these are telling me what will go wrong if I don't.

Nobody is suggesting that you starve yourself. Nobody is suggesting that you shouldn't meet your nutritional needs. People are just saying you do not have to eat first thing if you don't want to.

Well there are over 700 pages of studies in the particular search I provided, Not every listed study is applicable to our discussion. I figured people here might just be intelligent and honest enough to filter the abstracts and find the studies most appropriate to the discussion at hand.

Here's just a small hand full of quotes from the abstracts of just some of the listed studies.

• June 9, 2014:
  A study from the University of Bath (UK) found that people who eat breakfast burn more calories throughout the day and have tighter blood sugar control than test subjects who skipped breakfast.
• July 28, 2013:
  According to a 16 year study of nearly 27,000 participants by Harvard University, men who skip breakfast have a 27 percent higher risk of heart attack or death from coronary heart disease.
• June 17, 2013:
  According to a University of Colorado study, overweight women who skip breakfast are prone to impaired metabolic responses (unhealthy spikes in insulin and glucose levels) after eating lunch.
• July 15, 2013:
  A study from Harvard University School of Public Health published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that women who skip breakfast have a 20% higher risk of being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes than those who eat breakfast daily.
• June 17, 2013:
  A study from the University of Minnesota found that people who eat breakfast regularly have a significantly lower risk of obesity, high blood pressure and diabetes compared with subjects who routinely skip breakfast
• March 29, 2013:
  A University of Missouri-Columbia study indicated that young people who eat a protein-rich breakfast are less likely to indulge in unhealthy snacking later in the day.
• February 10, 2013:
  A study from the University of Pennsylvania School of Nursing showed children who regularly eat breakfast get significantly higher scores in verbal and performance IQ tests.
• October 9, 2012:
  A study presented at the Learning Connection Summit demonstrated that brain scans of children who eat breakfast show more activity than scans of children who skip breakfast.
• July 5, 2012:
  Researchers at Cornell University found that people who skip breakfast tend to crave more carbohydrates later in the day compared with test subjects who ate breakfast.
• June 14, 2012:
  A study from the University of Minnesota School of Public Health found that people who eat breakfast everyday are 34% less likely to develop type 2 diabetes than those who do not eat breakfast. They are also 43% less likely to become obese and 40% less likely to develop fat around the belly.
• May 24, 2012:
  A 16-year study from Harvard of nearly 30,000 subjects found that men who skip breakfast are 21% more likely to develop Type 2 diabetes than those who eat breakfast daily.
• May 11, 2012:
  A study of 6,000 students from the Toronto Foundation for Student Success found that students who ate breakfast had better grades and were more likely to graduate.
• March 10, 2012:
  A new study from the Sussex Innovation Centre, Brighton, UK found that eating breakfast improves people's mental performance. 61% of test subjects showed improvements in English and mathematics tests after eating breakfast. Hand-eye coordination was also improved. Breakfast eaters also showed a reduction in anxiety levels when faced with stressful situations.
• November 28, 2011:
  A study from the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center found that adult women trying to diet are more successful if they eat a healthy breakfast and avoid mid-morning snacks.
• April 30, 2002:
  Researchers from the National Weight Control Registry, a database of more than 3,000 people who have lost at least 60 pounds and kept it off for an average of 6 years, found that eating breakfast every day was a weight control strategy for 78% of the people in the registry. People who kept off weight long-term also reported eating a low-fat diet and exercising for an hour or more each day.
• August 6, 2003:
  A study reported by the "Journal of the American College of Nutrition" found that eating cereal (either ready-to-eat or cooked) for breakfast is associated with significantly lower body mass index than either skipping breakfast or eating meats and/or eggs.
• August 6, 2014:
  A study from the University of Missouri found that young people who eat a high protein breakfast had noticeable reductions in cravings for sweets later in the day. Additional findings indicated that those eating a high protein breakfast may have better regulation of dopamine, the chemical in the brain that regulates food motivation and reward.

Is that enough, most of those are recent between 2014 and 2011. I chose one or two from as far back as 2002 because they were significant, If that's not enough I post more, like I said there are over 700 pages worth..

These are great if you consider "correlation" as "causation". Now please post a peer reviewed study showing that a person in calorie deficit/maintenance skipping breakfast is going to gain weight and get obese as the actual result?
Regardless of what times and how many meals someone eats (whether it's 1 or 7 in a day) if someone is in calorie deficit or maintenance, weight gain isn't going to be an issue. Oh and if they are meeting their macro/micro nutrient goals while doing it, there's little chance that they are malnourished.
Notice how I did that without trying to be insulting?

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff wrote: »

CaptBligh001 wrote: »

bioklutz wrote: »

I read the first 3 articles from your search:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26088558
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26102907
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26109287

None of these are telling me why I MUST eat first thing in the morning. None of these are telling me what will go wrong if I don't.

Nobody is suggesting that you starve yourself. Nobody is suggesting that you shouldn't meet your nutritional needs. People are just saying you do not have to eat first thing if you don't want to.

Well there are over 700 pages of studies in the particular search I provided, Not every listed study is applicable to our discussion. I figured people here might just be intelligent and honest enough to filter the abstracts and find the studies most appropriate to the discussion at hand.

Here's just a small hand full of quotes from the abstracts of just some of the listed studies.

• June 9, 2014:
  A study from the University of Bath (UK) found that people who eat breakfast burn more calories throughout the day and have tighter blood sugar control than test subjects who skipped breakfast.
• July 28, 2013:
  According to a 16 year study of nearly 27,000 participants by Harvard University, men who skip breakfast have a 27 percent higher risk of heart attack or death from coronary heart disease.
• June 17, 2013:
  According to a University of Colorado study, overweight women who skip breakfast are prone to impaired metabolic responses (unhealthy spikes in insulin and glucose levels) after eating lunch.
• July 15, 2013:
  A study from Harvard University School of Public Health published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that women who skip breakfast have a 20% higher risk of being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes than those who eat breakfast daily.
• June 17, 2013:
  A study from the University of Minnesota found that people who eat breakfast regularly have a significantly lower risk of obesity, high blood pressure and diabetes compared with subjects who routinely skip breakfast
• March 29, 2013:
  A University of Missouri-Columbia study indicated that young people who eat a protein-rich breakfast are less likely to indulge in unhealthy snacking later in the day.
• February 10, 2013:
  A study from the University of Pennsylvania School of Nursing showed children who regularly eat breakfast get significantly higher scores in verbal and performance IQ tests.
• October 9, 2012:
  A study presented at the Learning Connection Summit demonstrated that brain scans of children who eat breakfast show more activity than scans of children who skip breakfast.
• July 5, 2012:
  Researchers at Cornell University found that people who skip breakfast tend to crave more carbohydrates later in the day compared with test subjects who ate breakfast.
• June 14, 2012:
  A study from the University of Minnesota School of Public Health found that people who eat breakfast everyday are 34% less likely to develop type 2 diabetes than those who do not eat breakfast. They are also 43% less likely to become obese and 40% less likely to develop fat around the belly.
• May 24, 2012:
  A 16-year study from Harvard of nearly 30,000 subjects found that men who skip breakfast are 21% more likely to develop Type 2 diabetes than those who eat breakfast daily.
• May 11, 2012:
  A study of 6,000 students from the Toronto Foundation for Student Success found that students who ate breakfast had better grades and were more likely to graduate.
• March 10, 2012:
  A new study from the Sussex Innovation Centre, Brighton, UK found that eating breakfast improves people's mental performance. 61% of test subjects showed improvements in English and mathematics tests after eating breakfast. Hand-eye coordination was also improved. Breakfast eaters also showed a reduction in anxiety levels when faced with stressful situations.
• November 28, 2011:
  A study from the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center found that adult women trying to diet are more successful if they eat a healthy breakfast and avoid mid-morning snacks.
• April 30, 2002:
  Researchers from the National Weight Control Registry, a database of more than 3,000 people who have lost at least 60 pounds and kept it off for an average of 6 years, found that eating breakfast every day was a weight control strategy for 78% of the people in the registry. People who kept off weight long-term also reported eating a low-fat diet and exercising for an hour or more each day.
• August 6, 2003:
  A study reported by the "Journal of the American College of Nutrition" found that eating cereal (either ready-to-eat or cooked) for breakfast is associated with significantly lower body mass index than either skipping breakfast or eating meats and/or eggs.
• August 6, 2014:
  A study from the University of Missouri found that young people who eat a high protein breakfast had noticeable reductions in cravings for sweets later in the day. Additional findings indicated that those eating a high protein breakfast may have better regulation of dopamine, the chemical in the brain that regulates food motivation and reward.

Is that enough, most of those are recent between 2014 and 2011. I chose one or two from as far back as 2002 because they were significant, If that's not enough I post more, like I said there are over 700 pages worth..

These are great if you consider "correlation" as "causation". Now please post a peer reviewed study showing that a person in calorie deficit/maintenance skipping breakfast is going to gain weight and get obese as the actual result?
Regardless of what times and how many meals someone eats (whether it's 1 or 7 in a day) if someone is in calorie deficit or maintenance, weight gain isn't going to be an issue. Oh and if they are meeting their macro/micro nutrient goals while doing it, there's little chance that they are malnourished.
Notice how I did that without trying to be insulting?

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I don't want to start a debate, but read some studies about SIDS. (Like this one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23823880) Apparently, being poor CAUSES sudden infant death syndrome... If you want your baby to be healthy, make more money.

Or, this might be another example of correlation =/= causation.

Soopatt wrote: »

... if we read a few papers and take on board the idea that we might be able to control our energy levels better and reduce cravings by eating breakfast, why not give it a chance?

But the thing is, some people have more cravings after eating breakfast and end up eating more during the day. Plenty of people have no problems with their energy levels when they skip breakfast.
Sure, some people need to eat breakfast or they feel rubbish and overeat, but not everyone.
I don't think there's any hard and fast rule about breakfast that we need to follow, if eating first thing makes you feel better then keep it up but I don't think it's the golden ticket to health and wellbeing that CaptainBligh is suggesting it is.

I tend to eat a delayed breakfast between 10-11 am despite getting out of bed around 6:30am. The way I see it is this: I personally live a very sedentary life outside of my daily exercise efforts. At 6:30 I roll out of bed, put on some clothes, freshen up in the bathroom, pack a lunch, walk a few steps to the car, drive, walk a few steps to my desk at work, and sit all day (unless I can escape at lunch for a quick walk). Usually I've walked around 4000-5000 steps by the end of my work day.

When I get home from work though, I do not stop moving. Making supper, chores, walk the dog, workout, etc all happens in the evening. I usually get to my goal of 10000 steps, but 50% of that occurs between 6pm and 9pm. So I eat the majority of my food for the day in the evening, because that's when I feel I need it. I eat a big supper and a snack around 10pm in front of the TV.

Everyone's situation is different. For someone with a job that keeps them lightly active all day or someone who exercises in the morning, breakfast may be more important. But not everyone. I will overeat if I eat breakfast at 6:30 am because I am starving by 10am and have a snack anyway. I can eliminate this snack if I just wait to have my oats or eggs at 10.

Sorry I don't have any peer-reviewed journals though, just personal experience.

kailyw05 wrote: »

I tend to eat a delayed breakfast between 10-11 am despite getting out of bed around 6:30am. The way I see it is this: I personally live a very sedentary life outside of my daily exercise efforts. At 6:30 I roll out of bed, put on some clothes, freshen up in the bathroom, pack a lunch, walk a few steps to the car, drive, walk a few steps to my desk at work, and sit all day (unless I can escape at lunch for a quick walk). Usually I've walked around 4000-5000 steps by the end of my work day.

When I get home from work though, I do not stop moving. Making supper, chores, walk the dog, workout, etc all happens in the evening. I usually get to my goal of 10000 steps, but 50% of that occurs between 6pm and 9pm. So I eat the majority of my food for the day in the evening, because that's when I feel I need it. I eat a big supper and a snack around 10pm in front of the TV.

Everyone's situation is different. For someone with a job that keeps them lightly active all day or someone who exercises in the morning, breakfast may be more important. But not everyone. I will overeat if I eat breakfast at 6:30 am because I am starving by 10am and have a snack anyway. I can eliminate this snack if I just wait to have my oats or eggs at 10.

Sorry I don't have any peer-reviewed journals though, just personal experience.

I'm pretty sure I'm your peer, I've just reviewed you, and I concur!!

kailyw05 wrote: »

I tend to eat a delayed breakfast between 10-11 am despite getting out of bed around 6:30am. The way I see it is this: I personally live a very sedentary life outside of my daily exercise efforts. At 6:30 I roll out of bed, put on some clothes, freshen up in the bathroom, pack a lunch, walk a few steps to the car, drive, walk a few steps to my desk at work, and sit all day (unless I can escape at lunch for a quick walk). Usually I've walked around 4000-5000 steps by the end of my work day.

When I get home from work though, I do not stop moving. Making supper, chores, walk the dog, workout, etc all happens in the evening. I usually get to my goal of 10000 steps, but 50% of that occurs between 6pm and 9pm. So I eat the majority of my food for the day in the evening, because that's when I feel I need it. I eat a big supper and a snack around 10pm in front of the TV.

Everyone's situation is different. For someone with a job that keeps them lightly active all day or someone who exercises in the morning, breakfast may be more important. But not everyone. I will overeat if I eat breakfast at 6:30 am because I am starving by 10am and have a snack anyway. I can eliminate this snack if I just wait to have my oats or eggs at 10

Sorry I don't have any peer-reviewed journals though, just personal experience.

Yes, this is me also but I work from home. I have to sit still for hours first thing and in the evening I exercise.
The health benefits on the studies(ie diabetes) are interesting but wouldn't that be what FOOD was eaten? oatmeal, eggs,etc.. wonder if there is a study about breakfast foods eaten at lunchtime then regular dinner.
Meal timing is an issue on theses studies also. say b.f at 11, lunch 2, dinner 7, e.snack 10. is 11 b.f or snack, or lunch.

I did make my kids eat breakfast just b.c of the studies and one son absolutely hated it, what a fight every morning.

ninerbuff wrote: »

CaptBligh001 wrote: »

bioklutz wrote: »

I read the first 3 articles from your search:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26088558
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26102907
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26109287

None of these are telling me why I MUST eat first thing in the morning. None of these are telling me what will go wrong if I don't.

Nobody is suggesting that you starve yourself. Nobody is suggesting that you shouldn't meet your nutritional needs. People are just saying you do not have to eat first thing if you don't want to.

Well there are over 700 pages of studies in the particular search I provided, Not every listed study is applicable to our discussion. I figured people here might just be intelligent and honest enough to filter the abstracts and find the studies most appropriate to the discussion at hand.

Here's just a small hand full of quotes from the abstracts of just some of the listed studies.

• June 9, 2014:
  A study from the University of Bath (UK) found that people who eat breakfast burn more calories throughout the day and have tighter blood sugar control than test subjects who skipped breakfast.
• July 28, 2013:
  According to a 16 year study of nearly 27,000 participants by Harvard University, men who skip breakfast have a 27 percent higher risk of heart attack or death from coronary heart disease.
• June 17, 2013:
  According to a University of Colorado study, overweight women who skip breakfast are prone to impaired metabolic responses (unhealthy spikes in insulin and glucose levels) after eating lunch.
• July 15, 2013:
  A study from Harvard University School of Public Health published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that women who skip breakfast have a 20% higher risk of being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes than those who eat breakfast daily.
• June 17, 2013:
  A study from the University of Minnesota found that people who eat breakfast regularly have a significantly lower risk of obesity, high blood pressure and diabetes compared with subjects who routinely skip breakfast
• March 29, 2013:
  A University of Missouri-Columbia study indicated that young people who eat a protein-rich breakfast are less likely to indulge in unhealthy snacking later in the day.
• February 10, 2013:
  A study from the University of Pennsylvania School of Nursing showed children who regularly eat breakfast get significantly higher scores in verbal and performance IQ tests.
• October 9, 2012:
  A study presented at the Learning Connection Summit demonstrated that brain scans of children who eat breakfast show more activity than scans of children who skip breakfast.
• July 5, 2012:
  Researchers at Cornell University found that people who skip breakfast tend to crave more carbohydrates later in the day compared with test subjects who ate breakfast.
• June 14, 2012:
  A study from the University of Minnesota School of Public Health found that people who eat breakfast everyday are 34% less likely to develop type 2 diabetes than those who do not eat breakfast. They are also 43% less likely to become obese and 40% less likely to develop fat around the belly.
• May 24, 2012:
  A 16-year study from Harvard of nearly 30,000 subjects found that men who skip breakfast are 21% more likely to develop Type 2 diabetes than those who eat breakfast daily.
• May 11, 2012:
  A study of 6,000 students from the Toronto Foundation for Student Success found that students who ate breakfast had better grades and were more likely to graduate.
• March 10, 2012:
  A new study from the Sussex Innovation Centre, Brighton, UK found that eating breakfast improves people's mental performance. 61% of test subjects showed improvements in English and mathematics tests after eating breakfast. Hand-eye coordination was also improved. Breakfast eaters also showed a reduction in anxiety levels when faced with stressful situations.
• November 28, 2011:
  A study from the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center found that adult women trying to diet are more successful if they eat a healthy breakfast and avoid mid-morning snacks.
• April 30, 2002:
  Researchers from the National Weight Control Registry, a database of more than 3,000 people who have lost at least 60 pounds and kept it off for an average of 6 years, found that eating breakfast every day was a weight control strategy for 78% of the people in the registry. People who kept off weight long-term also reported eating a low-fat diet and exercising for an hour or more each day.
• August 6, 2003:
  A study reported by the "Journal of the American College of Nutrition" found that eating cereal (either ready-to-eat or cooked) for breakfast is associated with significantly lower body mass index than either skipping breakfast or eating meats and/or eggs.
• August 6, 2014:
  A study from the University of Missouri found that young people who eat a high protein breakfast had noticeable reductions in cravings for sweets later in the day. Additional findings indicated that those eating a high protein breakfast may have better regulation of dopamine, the chemical in the brain that regulates food motivation and reward.

Is that enough, most of those are recent between 2014 and 2011. I chose one or two from as far back as 2002 because they were significant, If that's not enough I post more, like I said there are over 700 pages worth..

These are great if you consider "correlation" as "causation". Now please post a peer reviewed study showing that a person in calorie deficit/maintenance skipping breakfast is going to gain weight and get obese as the actual result?
Regardless of what times and how many meals someone eats (whether it's 1 or 7 in a day) if someone is in calorie deficit or maintenance, weight gain isn't going to be an issue. Oh and if they are meeting their macro/micro nutrient goals while doing it, there's little chance that they are malnourished.
Notice how I did that without trying to be insulting?

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Props for being able to answer immaturity with maturity.

Yea, I hate that to when they start insulting others. They just repeat over and over the same thing and ignore what others are trying to say. Always interesting to look at "number of posts" to get a little insight.

A growing kid is completely different that adults so yes, I insisted on eating breakfast. All three college grads now (well last one has semester yet) so all is well and healthy, strong, average weight. We also encouraged sports.

It would be interesting to see studies done more on the food eaten and meal timing *for adults. B.f foods eaten at lunch. Hard to search that, but trying to find it.

go by hunger cues. your body's not on a kitchen timer waiting to start pulling fat out of thin air if you take longer than the allotted time to eat. also the best part about being an adult is you can have your breakfast food any time of day. get your eggs and bakey at noon, go crazy, as long as you're in a deficit your body will not care.

unmatcheddiscipline wrote: »

I always hated to eat breakfast since I was a kid, I am never hungry in the morning either. I began eating breakfast, and I found out that it works good for me because I work out. I've done the IF diet, but its basically starving yourself, I don't care what anyone says, and when you do that you will lose weight, but end up skinny fat--in particular for females because we carry more fat than males. Good luck. Eat what you can when you can nutritious foods.

Sorry but that is not the way IF works. It IS eating your daily calories in a smaller window of time.

If you starved yourself.. you did it Wrong.

What it boils down to is personal preference and what does and doesn't work for people. The only constant factor in weight loss for everyone is eating less than you burn because that's scientific fact.

Everything else, all the variables on how you achieve that goal, are based on personal preference, body type and health. There is no one-size fits all solution and there is no one rule, other than calories in-out that applies to everyone.

I don't eat from about 7-8:00 p.m. to between noon and 1:00p.m. the next day. It works for me and I have had zero health issues from doing so. I tend to do my treadmill workouts before I eat anything, maybe half before and half after I eat. My cholesterol has come down to normal and my energy levels are actually higher today than I ever remember them being since I was a kid. Oh, and I've lost 26 pounds since March 1, so skipping breakfast or IF or whatever certainly doesn't do anything to hinder weight loss or cause health problems for ME. I cannot speak for everyone and I cannot say you shouldn't eat breakfast because of my results or because of what some blog somewhere says.

It's like bugs under my skin when people come in here and say "Do this or don't do that and never do that but always do this because if you don't do what I say, bad things! Baaaad things!!" Just because something does or doesn't work for some folks doesn't make it the end solution for everyone.

unmatcheddiscipline wrote: »

I always hated to eat breakfast since I was a kid, I am never hungry in the morning either. I began eating breakfast, and I found out that it works good for me because I work out. I've done the IF diet, but its basically starving yourself, I don't care what anyone says, and when you do that you will lose weight, but end up skinny fat--in particular for females because we carry more fat than males. Good luck. Eat what you can when you can nutritious foods.

Lol what. IF is eating the same amount of food just pushing the first meal till noon.

Save your calories and eat when you are actually hungry.