Food addiction
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RockstarWilson wrote: »Sorry, Kalikel, the question was intended for Mr Knight. I did not know your quote was tagged on.
Mr Knight, so if a person grows a clothing size, then they are always actively saying, "yes, I want to be heavier because it is my choice"?
The "because" doesn't make sense in there. But yes - they are saying "I'd rather be heavier than control what I eat". And to the extent they aren't looking for support or etc from me, I don't have a problem with them making that choice.How many times do we enact something from a television show, such as a phrase or action that gets laughs?
I fail to see how that is relevant. There are lots of car smashups on television shows, but I don't see a whole lot of people going out there and crashing on purpose because "tv made me do it".It is pop culture. How is food any different?
It's not. You have a choice on how you integrate pop culture into your life, and you have a choice on what you eat, and on how much you eat.
Look, if you want to paint yourself as some hopeless controllable person who is easily influenced by what you see on a screen - go ahead. That's up to you. That's not who I am, but if that is what you self-identify with, that's your business.
Just don't expect sympathy or understanding from me, because that...is up to me.
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Holy snark batman0
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Yeah. I'm just a big meanie.
:drinker:
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RockstarWilson wrote: »Sorry, Kalikel, the question was intended for Mr Knight. I did not know your quote was tagged on.
Mr Knight, so if a person grows a clothing size, then they are always actively saying, "yes, I want to be heavier because it is my choice"?
The "because" doesn't make sense in there. But yes - they are saying "I'd rather be heavier than control what I eat". And to the extent they aren't looking for support or etc from me, I don't have a problem with them making that choice.How many times do we enact something from a television show, such as a phrase or action that gets laughs?
I fail to see how that is relevant. There are lots of car smashups on television shows, but I don't see a whole lot of people going out there and crashing on purpose because "tv made me do it".It is pop culture. How is food any different?
It's not. You have a choice on how you integrate pop culture into your life, and you have a choice on what you eat, and on how much you eat.
Look, if you want to paint yourself as some hopeless controllable person who is easily influenced by what you see on a screen - go ahead. That's up to you. That's not who I am, but if that is what you self-identify with, that's your business.
Just don't expect sympathy or understanding from me, because that...is up to me.
Have you seen how many people wear Duck Dynasty crap? Have you seen all those lowered and spiffed out 1992 Hondas rattling around because of Fast furious? Those are just two examples. Where do they get that from and where do you think the ads are placed?
Yes, everyone has a choice. But for the younger, more at risk crowd, it is all about appearances. They dont have an identity yet, and often enough are uneducated in nutrition. Those are the people I am talking about. Yes, obviously not every tv show is imitated. Duh. But just because you and I do not let outside influences control our day to day actions as much as general society, that does not mean environment does not influence society in a big way. You would be naive to think as such.
You are nitpicking my comments now, so I would render this conversation between me and you dead. The belief you have that someone would rationally think "I would rather be heavier than control what I eat" all by their lonesome is, just that, your belief. But psychologists and sociologists, I feel, would disagree with you. It is Darwinian in nature, and ingrained into our existence that the environment one is in can drastically alter their decisions.0 -
RockstarWilson wrote: »RockstarWilson wrote: »Sorry, Kalikel, the question was intended for Mr Knight. I did not know your quote was tagged on.
Mr Knight, so if a person grows a clothing size, then they are always actively saying, "yes, I want to be heavier because it is my choice"?
The "because" doesn't make sense in there. But yes - they are saying "I'd rather be heavier than control what I eat". And to the extent they aren't looking for support or etc from me, I don't have a problem with them making that choice.How many times do we enact something from a television show, such as a phrase or action that gets laughs?
I fail to see how that is relevant. There are lots of car smashups on television shows, but I don't see a whole lot of people going out there and crashing on purpose because "tv made me do it".It is pop culture. How is food any different?
It's not. You have a choice on how you integrate pop culture into your life, and you have a choice on what you eat, and on how much you eat.
Look, if you want to paint yourself as some hopeless controllable person who is easily influenced by what you see on a screen - go ahead. That's up to you. That's not who I am, but if that is what you self-identify with, that's your business.
Just don't expect sympathy or understanding from me, because that...is up to me.
Have you seen how many people wear Duck Dynasty crap?
Yes. And?Have you seen all those lowered and spiffed out 1992 Hondas rattling around because of Fast furious?
You have it exactly backwards - Fast and Furious came from street culture, not the other way around.Those are just two examples.
Two examples that have nothing to do with making choices that actively and knowingly harm one's own body - like, say, over-eating.Yes, everyone has a choice. But for the younger, more at risk crowd, it is all about appearances.
Which means its back to making choices. They can choose the "appearances" of eating too much *kitten*, or they can choose the just-as-prevelant "appearances" of having a hot beach body.
If anything, the hot beach body is far more prevelent in advertising culture than is over-eating, which means that even if your underlying principle is correct in other situations, you've just blown up your own argument in this specific case.You are nitpicking my comments now...
No, I'm still firmly in broad strokes. You haven't made an argument yet that is coherent enough to "nit pick".
:drinker:
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I just don't understand the logic of how one would wittingly say, without outside influence, "I choose to become overweight" if they are educated in nutrition, even at an elementary level. I may have missed it on my little phone, but you haven't really explained how that works exactly.0
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That is to say that 2/3 of people in America just became that way all by their individual lonesome. TV time doesn't matter. Targeted advertising is redundant. Social activities don't play a part. Soda machines people walk by don't entice.
None of that plays a part in personal choice?0 -
RockstarWilson wrote: »I just don't understand the logic of how one would wittingly say, without outside influence, "I choose to become overweight" if they are educated in nutrition, even at an elementary level. I may have missed it on my little phone, but you haven't really explained how that works exactly.
That, my friend, is commonly referred to as a strawman.
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RockstarWilson wrote: »That is to say that 2/3 of people in America just became that way all by their individual lonesome. TV time doesn't matter. Targeted advertising is redundant. Social activities don't play a part. Soda machines people walk by don't entice.
There are FAR more ads directly or indirectly espousing the virtues of physical hotness than there are espousing the virtues of over-eating. If there was *any* merit to your position, 'Murica would be a nation of buff-bods instead of dad-bods.
Instead, we have a growing fat-acceptance movement that started from the grass-roots up. Which once again demonstrates that it all comes down to....
...choice.
Now if you want to argue that free will is really just a mirage and nobody really makes "choices" - well, we can go there, but that is an entirely different conversation.
:drinker:
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That is called deception, my friend. The company selling the unhealthy product wants the audience to think it is okay to eat this food. "These people do, all the time, so it is okay!" is virtually what the company is saying. If they had a bunch of obese people representing the company, the product wouldn't sell. Do you think the people in those food commercials are counting their calories?
How about McDonalds, and their targeting of young, less affluent African Americans, one of the most obese populations? More of their commercials have African Americans in them, and one even has them exclusively. Everybody is sexy in those commercials. All those sexy people are eating the 2 for $3.33 McMuffin. What they don't tell you is that they are loaded with about 450 calories each. That's 900 calories for breakfast. How do you think that compares to their TDEE? Heck, how does that compare to anyone's TDEE?
It is a marketing gimmick. That is all.
As far as the commercials that actually promote good health, such as gym commercials, hospital commercials or PSAs, they are vastly outnumbered by the ads promoting unhealthy or non-nutritious food0 -
RockstarWilson wrote: »I just don't understand the logic of how one would wittingly say, without outside influence, "I choose to become overweight" if they are educated in nutrition, even at an elementary level. I may have missed it on my little phone, but you haven't really explained how that works exactly.
That, my friend, is commonly referred to as a strawman.
Haha. I had to look that up. Even after looking it up, I am not sure what you mean by that statement. What is "strawman" in reference to?0 -
RockstarWilson wrote: »That is called deception, my friend. The company selling the unhealthy product wants the audience to think it is okay to eat this food. "These people do, all the time, so it is okay!" is virtually what the company is saying. If they had a bunch of obese people representing the company, the product wouldn't sell. Do you think the people in those food commercials are counting their calories?
How about McDonalds, and their targeting of young, less affluent African Americans, one of the most obese populations? More of their commercials have African Americans in them, and one even has them exclusively. Everybody is sexy in those commercials. All those sexy people are eating the 2 for $3.33 McMuffin. What they don't tell you is that they are loaded with about 450 calories each. That's 900 calories for breakfast. How do you think that compares to their TDEE? Heck, how does that compare to anyone's TDEE?
It is a marketing gimmick. That is all.
As far as the commercials that actually promote good health, such as gym commercials, hospital commercials or PSAs, they are vastly outnumbered by the ads promoting unhealthy or non-nutritious food
Lol. How does McDonald's target young, less affluent African Americans? I take it you don't actual know who their primary and secondary target audiences are.
Math? Not even once. Not a single of their muffin line of sandwiches have 450 cals.
http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/food/product_nutrition.breakfast.46.egg-mcmuffin.html0 -
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Do you believe it's real? Why or why not?
I'm talking addiction in the sense that you can't control it and it hinders your life. Like beyond emotional eating.
Yes, I believe it's real. This video explains how everything we think we know about addiction is wrong. You can't control it without a real support system. The opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it is connection. The theory of chemical hooks driving an addiction is not completely what drives the behavior. You will understand what I'm trying to say when you watch this:
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong?language=en0 -
Do you believe it's real? Why or why not?
I'm talking addiction in the sense that you can't control it and it hinders your life. Like beyond emotional eating.
I believe that it's not medically correct to call it an addiction, for various reasons, but a COMPULSION, absolutely. It has more in common with hoarding, anorexia, and OCD disorders than it does with substance abuse.
And you CAN control it. No one puts a gun to your head and makes you eat too much...or drink too much...or smoke...or hoard. Until you realize that the only person who can make a change is you...and until you care enough to do it and to stop blaming your poor coping skills on something outside of yourself...you will ALWAYS fail.
There is ALWAYS a reason that stopping a self-destructive behavior is "too hard." Most of them are lies. The ones that don't don't matter.
-I'm depressed. (Join the club.)
-I don't have time to eat well. (But you have time to buy the crap you're buying now?)
-I don't have money to eat well. (Complete BS. Healthy food is WAY cheaper per meal.)
-I have low thyroid/PCOS/insulin problems/anemia/mobility issues/toe cheese. (Yeah, and I have a rare and potentially fatal exercise allergy AND an ever rarer genetic muscle disease. My symptoms will make your hair curl.)
-My dad/mom/brother/sister/grandparent/dog/child/spouse died/doesn't love me. (Crap happens to everyone. People who keep their lives together anyway aren't specially blessed.)
-I have no job. (Eating less is cheap!)
-I have kids/a demanding job/commute really far. (You make time for the things you care about.)
-I don't have a scale. (Like, SERIOUSLY? This is one of the dumbest excuses.)
-My mother/brother/spouse/whoever doesn't support me. (Figure it out--and if the relationship is THAT destructive, why are you still in it?)
_I have no control. (BS. Of course you do. Get a hold of yourself. You can do way more than you think.)
Really, the closest thing to it IS hoarding. It's a kind of internalized hoarding. Whereas bulemia and orthorexia are more like hand-washing and light-flipping.0 -
From: http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/addiction
Definition of addiction:
Addiction is a persistent, compulsive dependence on a behavior or substance. The term has been partially replaced by the word dependence for substance abuse. Addiction has been extended, however, to include mood-altering behaviors or activities. Some researchers speak of two types of addictions: substance addictions (for example, alcoholism, drug abuse, and smoking); and process addictions (for example, gambling, spending, shopping, eating, and sexual activity). There is a growing recognition that many addicts, such as polydrug abusers, are addicted to more than one substance or process.
Prevention:
The most effective form of prevention appears to be a stable family that models responsible attitudes toward mood-altering substances and behaviors. Prevention education programs are also widely used to inform the public of the harmfulness of substance abuse.0 -
RockstarWilson wrote: »I just don't understand the logic of how one would wittingly say, without outside influence, "I choose to become overweight" if they are educated in nutrition, even at an elementary level. I may have missed it on my little phone, but you haven't really explained how that works exactly.
Because it's fun to eat. Just like people over-spend even though most people are capable of adding and subtracting. Might as well say, I don't understand how people with decent jobs say, "I chose to be in debt and to spend more than I can afford" if they are educated in basic mathematics. And yet more than 10% of households that make over $100k a year live paycheck to paycheck...just like more than 10% of people who go to the gym regularly and burn a LOT of calories still consume more than they burn and get and stay overweight.0 -
From: http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/addiction
Definition of addiction:
Addiction is a persistent, compulsive dependence on a behavior or substance. The term has been partially replaced by the word dependence for substance abuse. Addiction has been extended, however, to include mood-altering behaviors or activities. Some researchers speak of two types of addictions: substance addictions (for example, alcoholism, drug abuse, and smoking); and process addictions (for example, gambling, spending, shopping, eating, and sexual activity). There is a growing recognition that many addicts, such as polydrug abusers, are addicted to more than one substance or process.
Prevention:
The most effective form of prevention appears to be a stable family that models responsible attitudes toward mood-altering substances and behaviors. Prevention education programs are also widely used to inform the public of the harmfulness of substance abuse.
Aaaaah, but food addiction is protective of substance addiction! Process "addicts" tend to be MORE likely to have other process addictions but LESS likely to have substance addictions.
Someone who's obese is less likely than someone who's normal weight to be an alcoholic and to do any form of drugs. But they're more likely to overspend and have problems managing their money and to be compulsive shoppers.
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Do you believe it's real? Why or why not?
I'm talking addiction in the sense that you can't control it and it hinders your life. Like beyond emotional eating.
Yes, I believe it's real. This video explains how everything we think we know about addiction is wrong. You can't control it without a real support system. The opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it is connection. The theory of chemical hooks driving an addiction is not completely what drives the behavior. You will understand what I'm trying to say when you watch this:
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong?language=en
From dealing with the homeless, I actually believe the opposite. You won't control it until you decide to and believe you can and you will. As long as you find other things and people and situations to blame, you'll fail to gain any ground. The people who get knocked down by life and STAY down are those who see themselves as victims of their circumstances...and those who simply don't care.
It blew my mind how wrong all my assumptions were. I'd painted these stories of exaggerated tragedy. But no, human tragedy is perfectly normal. It's those who choose to see their circumstances as specially difficult and unbearable compared to that of other people and to see themselves as put under an impossible pressure who end up failing over a long period rather than picking themselves up and dusting themselves off.
My grandmother was a smoker and an alcoholic for DECADES. When my mother became pregnant with me, she decided that she hadn't been the mother she should have and that she shouldn't be that kind of grandmother, so she quit cold turkey and never touched another drop.
She'd been a *nightly* alcoholic for more than 20 years and a binge drinker since she was 16.
When I was 3.5 and my little brother was born, I went up to her when she was smoking on the back porch and said that I didn't want her to smoke because I didn't want her to die and I wanted her to see my kids. She quietly finished that pack and never smoked another cigarette again. She'd been smoking daily at that point for nearly 40 years.
If you care, you will do it. If you don't do it, you don't care enough.0 -
MamaBirdBoss wrote: »From: http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/addiction
Definition of addiction:
Addiction is a persistent, compulsive dependence on a behavior or substance. The term has been partially replaced by the word dependence for substance abuse. Addiction has been extended, however, to include mood-altering behaviors or activities. Some researchers speak of two types of addictions: substance addictions (for example, alcoholism, drug abuse, and smoking); and process addictions (for example, gambling, spending, shopping, eating, and sexual activity). There is a growing recognition that many addicts, such as polydrug abusers, are addicted to more than one substance or process.
Prevention:
The most effective form of prevention appears to be a stable family that models responsible attitudes toward mood-altering substances and behaviors. Prevention education programs are also widely used to inform the public of the harmfulness of substance abuse.
Aaaaah, but food addiction is protective of substance addiction! Process "addicts" tend to be MORE likely to have other process addictions but LESS likely to have substance addictions.
Someone who's obese is less likely than someone who's normal weight to be an alcoholic and to do any form of drugs. But they're more likely to overspend and have problems managing their money and to be compulsive shoppers.
Do you have a source for this claim (bolded)? It is also off topic if we are talking about whether or not food can be addictive. Based on the source I provided, all sorts of things technically fall under the category of addiction: shopping, food, alcohol, drugs, sex, etc... And according to the Ted talk I posted, isolating people with ridicule over their addiction goes hand-in-hand with the punishment model of dealing with the problem, which has been shown to be ineffective treatment.0 -
I'm not a scientist, but doesn't sugar basically tell the brain you crave more sugar?0
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I thought the thread was to talk about food addiction. Is there a thread for support? I had a bad morning, overcame it and thought maybe a "support group," even an online one might help me. I'm trying very hard to stop binging and purging and all anyone on here is doing is setting up triggers, regurgitating studies they saw in the news and arguing nonsense. If anyone can lead me to a more supportive group, I'd be very appreciative.0
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If you're binging and purging, and you haven't already, you should seek professional help for an eating disorder.0
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I have a psychiatrist and I used to see a psychologist before I moved, but have an appt with a therapist next week. I was just wondering if anyone has used groups... I finally admitted my problem and would like to do everything I can to set myself up for success (and learn how to deal with failure).0
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MamaBirdBoss wrote: »Do you believe it's real? Why or why not?
I'm talking addiction in the sense that you can't control it and it hinders your life. Like beyond emotional eating.
I believe that it's not medically correct to call it an addiction, for various reasons, but a COMPULSION, absolutely. It has more in common with hoarding, anorexia, and OCD disorders than it does with substance abuse.
And you CAN control it. No one puts a gun to your head and makes you eat too much...or drink too much...or smoke...or hoard. Until you realize that the only person who can make a change is you...and until you care enough to do it and to stop blaming your poor coping skills on something outside of yourself...you will ALWAYS fail.
There is ALWAYS a reason that stopping a self-destructive behavior is "too hard." Most of them are lies. The ones that don't don't matter.
-I'm depressed. (Join the club.)
-I don't have time to eat well. (But you have time to buy the crap you're buying now?)
-I don't have money to eat well. (Complete BS. Healthy food is WAY cheaper per meal.)
-I have low thyroid/PCOS/insulin problems/anemia/mobility issues/toe cheese. (Yeah, and I have a rare and potentially fatal exercise allergy AND an ever rarer genetic muscle disease. My symptoms will make your hair curl.)
-My dad/mom/brother/sister/grandparent/dog/child/spouse died/doesn't love me. (Crap happens to everyone. People who keep their lives together anyway aren't specially blessed.)
-I have no job. (Eating less is cheap!)
-I have kids/a demanding job/commute really far. (You make time for the things you care about.)
-I don't have a scale. (Like, SERIOUSLY? This is one of the dumbest excuses.)
-My mother/brother/spouse/whoever doesn't support me. (Figure it out--and if the relationship is THAT destructive, why are you still in it?)
_I have no control. (BS. Of course you do. Get a hold of yourself. You can do way more than you think.)
Really, the closest thing to it IS hoarding. It's a kind of internalized hoarding. Whereas bulemia and orthorexia are more like hand-washing and light-flipping.
This might not be the group for me. Thanks.0 -
Addiction...........no. A disorder..................yes.
It's hard to justify that someone who keeps "using" their "addiction" regularly, will stop being an addict. So how does one stop eating food and not die?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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There are a variety of trains of thoughts. But if you look around,there are several threads (and the group I posted) to help recover from binge eating disorders.0
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