Protein intake 200g / day
beatua1
Posts: 98 Member
In reading online and going through online papers it seems to me that one should eat about .8 g of protein / lb of body weight in order to maintain as much muscle as possible while cutting weight. I also am lifting following the SL 5x5 program to try and lose fat.
I am 6'2" 245 and at .8g protein / lb that puts me at nearly 200g of protein a day. I recently had a body fat test using ultrasound on three locations (chest, waist, thigh) and it returned 24%. That seems a bit low to me, but even at 25 or 26% it would leave me at about 181 lbs of lean body weight. At 1 g protein / lb of LBM I'm still at 181 g / day. I find it very difficult to eat that much protein. At this point I am supplementing about 3 protein shakes a day to get to nearly 200g of protein daily.
Does it seem right to need to eat that much protein? If so is it reasonable to get 75-100 of those grams from protein shake?
I do eat meat and often eat beef, chicken, eggs, fish, other sources of protein.
I am 6'2" 245 and at .8g protein / lb that puts me at nearly 200g of protein a day. I recently had a body fat test using ultrasound on three locations (chest, waist, thigh) and it returned 24%. That seems a bit low to me, but even at 25 or 26% it would leave me at about 181 lbs of lean body weight. At 1 g protein / lb of LBM I'm still at 181 g / day. I find it very difficult to eat that much protein. At this point I am supplementing about 3 protein shakes a day to get to nearly 200g of protein daily.
Does it seem right to need to eat that much protein? If so is it reasonable to get 75-100 of those grams from protein shake?
I do eat meat and often eat beef, chicken, eggs, fish, other sources of protein.
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Replies
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I am vegetarian and without trying usually get around 70-80 grams of protein a day. I weigh 97-98 lbs so it's definitely enough for me. I imagine eating meat should make getting that much protein much easier. That is the upper end of protein intake though, 0.8g/lb is the most the body can use without being supplemented by anabolic steroids which allow your cells to metabolize it differently. I know plenty of people who supplement with protein powder so it's probably fine. I would venture to say most men I know that also lift use protein powder.0
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I would aim for 180 and not be upset to the point of crying if I was around 150. I would drink an extra shake if below 140.... That's just me! (Based on your lean mass being 180; if bones were not excluded adjust down by another 5g or so)0
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It is actually .8 - 1.8g per weight in kg so 90g - 200g of protein. So 200g would be the absolute most you would need. Since you do SL5x5, I definitely wouldn't do the low end, but maybe the middle. Aim for 1.2g per kg, that would give you about 133. If you do any endurance exercise on top of the weight, you could increase your protein.0
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In reading online and going through online papers it seems to me that one should eat about .8 g of protein / lb of body weight in order to maintain as much muscle as possible while cutting weight. I also am lifting following the SL 5x5 program to try and lose fat.
I am 6'2" 245 and at .8g protein / lb that puts me at nearly 200g of protein a day. I recently had a body fat test using ultrasound on three locations (chest, waist, thigh) and it returned 24%. That seems a bit low to me, but even at 25 or 26% it would leave me at about 181 lbs of lean body weight. At 1 g protein / lb of LBM I'm still at 181 g / day. I find it very difficult to eat that much protein. At this point I am supplementing about 3 protein shakes a day to get to nearly 200g of protein daily.
Does it seem right to need to eat that much protein? If so is it reasonable to get 75-100 of those grams from protein shake?
I do eat meat and often eat beef, chicken, eggs, fish, other sources of protein.
I can tell you that your body will recognize all those sources of protein.
Shakes, beef, chicken, eggs, fish, and other sources of protein ---- all of those count as protein.
(I am not good with the math re your other question so I will leave that alone.)0 -
Thanks for the responses, even aiming for 180 would be a lot better than 200g as it would mean one less shake per day. I do some cardio, usually moderate intensity for about 45 mins 5-6 days a week and average about 12000 steps per day according to my fitbit.
I also meant to post these in my original post, but the links below are some of the reading online I used to base my .8 g / lb of body weight expectation.
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22150425
Thanks again for the responses.
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.8 per lb of bodyweight stands as a proxy for up to 1g per lb if lean body mass.
And in the article you quote he discusses how that is more than enough, I.e. already above where it HAS to be.
Now losing weight may require a bit more protein. I've seen at least one study quoting 2x RDA and that would bring it to just above 0.8g per lb of lean.
Of course people don't specify of they excluse your skeleton .... but I don't see it as needing much protein support.
Put it all together together with the fact that you don't have to be perfect or you will disappear off the face of the earth in a puddle of nitrogen deficiency due to lack of 30g of excess protein, and you have my recommendation that a) you don't need to ho above 180, 150 will do, try to stay above 140 most of the time.
I mean technically you are also trying to become smaller which does entail some loss. So again you could just as easily be basing all this in your GOAL lean mass, which would be less than your current one!
And, of course, if your kidneys can take it, you can always eat more.
Not so sure why you're having trouble reaching the 150s. With your size there is no reason on earth why you wouldn't be losing at 2200Cal plus and I've had no trouble exceeding 150 at that level.0 -
In reading online and going through online papers it seems to me that one should eat about .8 g of protein / lb of body weight in order to maintain as much muscle as possible while cutting weight. I also am lifting following the SL 5x5 program to try and lose fat.
I am 6'2" 245 and at .8g protein / lb that puts me at nearly 200g of protein a day. I recently had a body fat test using ultrasound on three locations (chest, waist, thigh) and it returned 24%. That seems a bit low to me, but even at 25 or 26% it would leave me at about 181 lbs of lean body weight. At 1 g protein / lb of LBM I'm still at 181 g / day. I find it very difficult to eat that much protein. At this point I am supplementing about 3 protein shakes a day to get to nearly 200g of protein daily.
Does it seem right to need to eat that much protein? If so is it reasonable to get 75-100 of those grams from protein shake?
I do eat meat and often eat beef, chicken, eggs, fish, other sources of protein.
Men should be eating 0.84 grams of protein per kilo, not pound.
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/protein?open
111 kg * 0.84 g = 93.24 g/day
No need to worry!
The awesome James Fell on protein:
http://au.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding/the-problem-with-protein.html0 -
Men should be eating 0.84 grams of protein per kilo, not pound.
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/protein?open
111 kg * 0.84 g = 93.24 g/day
No need to worry!
The awesome James Fell on protein:
http://au.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding/the-problem-with-protein.html
http://www.fasebj.org/content/27/9/3837
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no it's not actuallyIt is actually .8 - 1.8g per weight in kg so 90g - 200g of protein. So 200g would be the absolute most you would need. Since you do SL5x5, I definitely wouldn't do the low end, but maybe the middle. Aim for 1.2g per kg, that would give you about 133. If you do any endurance exercise on top of the weight, you could increase your protein.
it's 0.8 grams per lb of weight or 1 gram per lbm.
and you treat macros as Minimums.
OP I get in on average 120-140 a day eating 1500-1800 calories...
My diary is open if you wish to see how but basically lots of lean meats, eggs, cheese, seafood, fish and eggs.
Summer time I do supplement in my smoothie as i typically have eggs and ham/cheese in the morning.
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Men should be eating 0.84 grams of protein per kilo, not pound.
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/protein?open
111 kg * 0.84 g = 93.24 g/day
No need to worry!
The awesome James Fell on protein:
http://au.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding/the-problem-with-protein.html
http://www.fasebj.org/content/27/9/3837
Any meta-studies of similar trials?
Still no need to more than double his protein.0 -
The article I liked the best analysed a number of studies and came to the conclusion that even for a professional bodybuilder there was no additional benefit in consuming over 0.82g protein per lb of bodyweight
And that in actual fact the range was probably, for most, closer to 0.64g protein per lb of bodyweight
But there is no issue in consuming over that so should be viewed as a minimum to reach
I always think most would be fine at 0.64g so for a 225lb male in defecit that would set your minimum at 163g
Will go find article now0 -
I eat a gram of protein as you do when in recomp mode
24% is high a bit.
I would say to try and do some long duration cardio when fasted. Like 2 hours, and force some fat as fuel burn.
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I'm on a shredding program where you lose fat and gain muscle while maintaining the same weight, and it calls for eating 1.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight. The program is working for me, but I do find it difficult to eat that much protein. Yesterday I had one protein shake, one whole egg, 8 egg whites, about 14oz of chicken, and about 7oz of steak. Spreading all of that out over the course of the day helped, but it still seemed like a bit much. However, I only have one more week on this program, and so far I'm down from 13.6% body fat to 11.2%.
Normally I shoot for 1g protein per pound of bodyweight.0 -
JoshLikesBeer wrote: »I'm on a shredding program where you lose fat and gain muscle while maintaining the same weight, and it calls for eating 1.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight. The program is working for me, but I do find it difficult to eat that much protein. Yesterday I had one protein shake, one whole egg, 8 egg whites, about 14oz of chicken, and about 7oz of steak. Spreading all of that out over the course of the day helped, but it still seemed like a bit much. However, I only have one more week on this program, and so far I'm down from 13.6% body fat to 11.2%.
Normally I shoot for 1g protein per pound of bodyweight.
Read article I posted ^^^0 -
Any meta-studies of similar trials? Still no need to more than double his protein.
a) Seems to be a well designed, and relevant to the OP study: metabolic ward and dealing specifically with people in a deficit.
For a more easy to read review of the study people can read: http://suppversity.blogspot.ca/2013/06/evidence-from-metabolic-ward-16-24gkg.html
b) the study I quote supports the OP's hardly unique position of eating approx 0.8g of protein per lb of bodyweight (study says 1.6g to 2.0g per kg; this translates to 0.72576 to 0.9072 -- I think 0.8g is nicely in the middle of that, non?)
c) OP has quoted an article reviewing multiple studies that support up to 0.8g per lb during an anabolic phase
So, OP (and I guess I), are aware of the RDA, and seem to believe that there is credible evidence that an amount approximately 2x the RDA is more lean mass preserving than the RDA. And, in general, the downside of a healthy person eating too much protein appears fairly minimal--at least as compared to many other risks in life.
So we have a fairly low risk gamble for an outcome we consider to be worthwhile.
Sounds good to me!
Now, I do understand that you may chose to follow the RDA and that you feel that you should remind us all that it *is* the RDA!
I understand that, though I would like to bring to your attention that RDA recommendations are designed for people who maintain, not people who are either in an anabolic or a catabolic phase.
And I do understand that you may chose to not believe a single study, and would want to see the results duplicated and multi-confirmed before acting upon them: that is certainly your privilege.
I just don't get your comment "still no need to more than double his protein".
If your comment is in reference to someone telling the OP to eat more protein than he is doing now.... nobody has done that!
I've suggested to him that the review article he quotes supports a slightly lower target than the one he specified, and I also suggested that he doesn't have to be anal about reaching his target every single day as long as he keeps eating at a generally high enough level,
I even went as far as to suggest that he could base his protein requirement on his target weight as opposed to his current weight, effectively reducing his target amount by up to 50g.
If your comment, however, is a reference to choosing to eat protein at roughly double the RDA, while in a deficit, based on evidence that has not yet satisfied you; I think we've already covered that.
You don't believe the evidence is enough to support this position.
The OP, Stef, and I seem to believe that it is.
Okey-dokey-hokey-pokey. Clear as mud and good to go!0 -
The article I liked the best analysed a number of studies and came to the conclusion that even for a professional bodybuilder there was no additional benefit in consuming over 0.82g protein per lb of bodyweight
And that in actual fact the range was probably, for most, closer to 0.64g protein per lb of bodyweight
But there is no issue in consuming over that so should be viewed as a minimum to reach
I always think most would be fine at 0.64g so for a 225lb male in defecit that would set your minimum at 163g
Will go find article now
Thanks rabbitjb and everyone who responded. I quoted the same article you did as the source of my .8/lb goal. I think I will just shoot for a minimum of 160g per day with 180 being my goal. for some reason even eating an average of 2200-2300 calories a day I seem to struggle to get to that 180 without supplementing at least a couple protein shakes in there. I don't mind doing it, just wanted confirmation I wasn't making a huge mistake in doing so.
Thanks everyone for your help. I will continue on my journey with 180g protein / day and hope at the end I have maintained most of my lean muscle while losing a majority of fat!0 -
Read article I posted ^^^
I read it. The author only cited a small hand-picked set of studies that backed up the point he wanted to make. You can't start with a conclusion, find a few studies to back it up, ignore the ones that don't, and expect to be taken seriously. You have to look at all of the studies, do a meta-analysis, and only then can you draw a meaningful conclusion.1 -
JoshLikesBeer wrote: »I'm on a shredding program where you lose fat and gain muscle while maintaining the same weight, and it calls for eating 1.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight. The program is working for me, but I do find it difficult to eat that much protein. Yesterday I had one protein shake, one whole egg, 8 egg whites, about 14oz of chicken, and about 7oz of steak. Spreading all of that out over the course of the day helped, but it still seemed like a bit much. However, I only have one more week on this program, and so far I'm down from 13.6% body fat to 11.2%.
Normally I shoot for 1g protein per pound of bodyweight.
That would be a challenge but you are getting results into low body fat percentages.
Hard to argue results.
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0.60 to 0.80 grams protein per 1 lb. bodyweight is the range for active individuals... Don't go by one unrealistic figure every day of the year. Just stay within the range. 0.80 grams per 1 lb. bodyweight is the upper register of what even pro (natural) bodybuilders can utilize as far as new muscle synthesis.
0.60 g x 245 lbs. = 147 grams protein per day or more.
Adjust your protein macro as you lose weight.0 -
To OP. As mentioned by many people anywhere in the night 140s + you're OK
Protein is one thing... structured lifting program is the other big thing.0 -
JoshLikesBeer wrote: »I read it. The author only cited a small hand-picked set of studies that backed up the point he wanted to make. You can't start with a conclusion, find a few studies to back it up, ignore the ones that don't, and expect to be taken seriously. You have to look at all of the studies, do a meta-analysis, and only then can you draw a meaningful conclusion.
Well, here is the problem.
RDA is about people at maintenance and is about half what Lyle McDonald, Bayesian dude, and a bunch of individual studies that "look good on paper" suggest.
I am not capable of looking at ALL the studies, doing a meta-analysis, and drawing a meaningful conclusion. Haven't run into a definitive meta-analysis in my googling either.
I am losing weight today, not in the year ???? when that Meta-analysis will be published.
In general, I've considered my body and the risks of eating too much protein that I'm aware off and put them against my general not great love of exercise and compared to my chances of being run over by a car while walking outside (which are greater, and yet I do) and came up with... not much to lose by eating to 0.8g of protein per lb of bodyweight. Maybe something to gain. Good nuff.
That's just me. YMMV.0 -
JoshLikesBeer wrote: »I read it. The author only cited a small hand-picked set of studies that backed up the point he wanted to make. You can't start with a conclusion, find a few studies to back it up, ignore the ones that don't, and expect to be taken seriously. You have to look at all of the studies, do a meta-analysis, and only then can you draw a meaningful conclusion.
Well, here is the problem.
RDA is about people at maintenance and is about half what Lyle McDonald, Bayesian dude, and a bunch of individual studies that "look good on paper" suggest.
I am not capable of looking at ALL the studies, doing a meta-analysis, and drawing a meaningful conclusion. Haven't run into a definitive meta-analysis in my googling either.
I am losing weight today, not in the year ???? when that Meta-analysis will be published.
In general, I've considered my body and the risks of eating too much protein that I'm aware off and put them against my general not great love of exercise and compared to my chances of being run over by a car while walking outside (which are greater, and yet I do) and came up with... not much to lose by eating to 0.8g of protein per lb of bodyweight. Maybe something to gain. Good nuff.
That's just me. YMMV.
Exactly my thoughts, the positives seem to far outweigh the negatives to eating .8g / lb, so I think I will shoot for that daily even though it has me drinking a lot of protein shake to get there consistently.
Thanks everyone for the lively debate and discussion!0 -
another option to do is eat 0.8 grams of protein per lb of goal weight. so if your goal is 200 lbs then aim for 160 grams0
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Wait, no, when I said "you can't ..." or "you have to...", I meant "you" in the generic sense, not you specifically. I wasn't expecting you or anyone else here on the thread to run off and go do all that research. I was just saying why I take that article with a large grain of salt.I am not capable of looking at ALL the studies, doing a meta-analysis, and drawing a meaningful conclusion. Haven't run into a definitive meta-analysis in my googling either.1 -
JoshLikesBeer wrote: »
Wait, no, when I said "you can't ..." or "you have to...", I meant "you" in the generic sense, not you specifically. I wasn't expecting you or anyone else here on the thread to run off and go do all that research. I was just saying why I take that article with a large grain of salt.I am not capable of looking at ALL the studies, doing a meta-analysis, and drawing a meaningful conclusion. Haven't run into a definitive meta-analysis in my googling either.
I hear you but I have to say that I am personally incredibly disappointed with the state of definitive scientific knowledge about the effects of losing weight, food choices, etc, and also of the crappy sample sizes a lot of studies are based on. And other design issues/study decisions even a non scientist like me looks at with mouth agape.
Most of which boil down to probably: that's all the money and equipment we have handy, have to publish, let's slap a study together.0 -
JoshLikesBeer wrote: »Read article I posted ^^^
I read it. The author only cited a small hand-picked set of studies that backed up the point he wanted to make. You can't start with a conclusion, find a few studies to back it up, ignore the ones that don't, and expect to be taken seriously. You have to look at all of the studies, do a meta-analysis, and only then can you draw a meaningful conclusion.
I have yet to see a single study that suggests any real advantage of eating as much protein as you do. I have however seen multiple ones that said there was no noticable advantage above the 0.8g/pound.0 -
I think it's per kilo, not per pound. Divide your lbs by 2.2 and see if it looks better. Overdoing protein is not a good idea.0
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Neither have I. The only reason I'm eating so much protein now is because I'm on a six-week diet+exercise program that calls for that much. I was skeptical, but I tried it anyway and I'm getting great results. I realize this is all just anecdotal, and I'm not recommending that anyone else eat 1.5g protein / pound of body weight. I also plan on going back to normal once I finish this program.stevencloser wrote: »I have yet to see a single study that suggests any real advantage of eating as much protein as you do.
Me too. I have also seen studies that show some advantage to consuming up to 30% more than that under certain circumstances. There are a lot of factors involved that affect the results, such as whether the person is in a caloric deficit or surplus, type of protein, time of day when they eat it, what they eat it with, how long before or after their workout they eat it, how they're working out, and so forth.stevencloser wrote: »I have however seen multiple ones that said there was no noticable advantage above the 0.8g/pound.
I think 0.8g/pound will give most people most, if not all, of the benefits they can expect to get from dietary protein. 0.8g/pound seems to be the point on the curve where the effects of adding protein to a diet change from drastic to marginal at best. If someone is at maintenance level or at a caloric surplus, then I would expect them to receive very little, if any, benefit from eating more than that.0 -
i have heard lots of different suggestions on protein intake. i think it is solely on person preference. i am 140lbs and i consume 166g. i would say that my muscle mas has stayed relatively the same for a few months, no major or drastic changes. play around with it and see what you body prefers. which in my opinion is the best part about dieting. you really get to understand your body and how to know when or how your body will react to certain intakes of food.0
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