Flexible Dieting (IIFYM)
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I'm doing it myself, plus doing the new Jamie Eason 12 week program showmetheweigh at bodybuilding.com.0
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I find it laughable that you think someone 100+ pounds overweight has any idea what sensible eating is or how to execute it. If they knew, they would have already.0
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
6'9". How tall are you?DeeJayShank wrote: »235-240 at 10%? How tall are you?
5'10" . I am about 11% right now and only 170 lbs.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and to add to that, when I started MFP I was doing a modified paleo thing influenced strongly by my own past history of being into eating as "natural" and local as possible, although I already thought my leanings toward the woo were a little ridiculous, I also knew I tended to enjoy that sort of thing.
So when I found a paleo vs. "clean eating" (not a term I was then familiar with except as meaning "as paleo as possible" vs. IIFYM discussion, I was interested and initially kind of annoyed at some of the claims by the IIFYM eater (like that McD's wasn't "unhealthy," as I would have claimed it was). In responding to the arguments I did what any sensible person on the internet would do--look up IIFYM and read about what it was.
In reading about what it, and flexible dieting, were, I understood right away that part of the concept was to eat an overall healthy diet with attention toward nutrition. I think that's really not that mysterious if someone reads the background on it.
This is a huge problem with MFP forums. There are some people who seem to follow this condescending recipe:
1.) Person spends years being overweight and unhealthy
2.) Person finds a reason to change their life, finds MFP, tracks food
3.) Person loses weight doing their plan
4.) Person defends their plan until the ends of the earth against any opposition based upon an n=1 experiment; doesn't accept that there may be more efficient methods of weight loss, fitness, or health
5.) Person expects anyone they encounter to now also be reasonable about diet and fitness, and gives unhelpful advice like "just read more on the internet"
6.) Another overweight person on the forums is not helped at all, or worse, comes away with bad strategies for weight loss. Doesn't lose as much weight as they want and gives up.
Another diet bites the dust.
I make a really simple assumption when working with someone 100+ pounds overweight. If someone 100+ pounds overweight was sensible about diet or exercise, they would already be thin and healthy. It should be assumed by anyone helping them that the obese person needs to start from scratch, relearn how to eat, how to move, etc. Boot Camp is an appropriate analogy. There's no shame in assuming you know bupkis and learning something new. Nick Faldo quit golf even after winning the masters to learn a new swing.
IIFYM is not, by default, easily understood. I've seen several responses in this same forum thread that prove there are many people on MFP that don't understand it fully.
You understood it completely on the first run? Good for you, you must be a health genius. Don't assume everyone else is as smart as you.
Just saying "read about IIFYM and watch these YouTube videos" is horrible advice because it doesn't change behavior. All it does is logically explain how to lose weight without supply the necessary mental and physical tools to actually do it.
It should be assumed that anyone obese needs help from the ground up. That's not condescending at all. I would counter that it is arrogant for an obese person to assume they know what they are doing when they are clearly out of control and have been for some time. I speak from experience. I was 70 pounds overweight myself. I'm sure many of us were or are.
Like I said, I just think we could tone down the opinion that everyone is reasonable or could easily find info on the internet to help them. It's just not that simple at all.0 -
DeeJayShank wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and to add to that, when I started MFP I was doing a modified paleo thing influenced strongly by my own past history of being into eating as "natural" and local as possible, although I already thought my leanings toward the woo were a little ridiculous, I also knew I tended to enjoy that sort of thing.
So when I found a paleo vs. "clean eating" (not a term I was then familiar with except as meaning "as paleo as possible" vs. IIFYM discussion, I was interested and initially kind of annoyed at some of the claims by the IIFYM eater (like that McD's wasn't "unhealthy," as I would have claimed it was). In responding to the arguments I did what any sensible person on the internet would do--look up IIFYM and read about what it was.
In reading about what it, and flexible dieting, were, I understood right away that part of the concept was to eat an overall healthy diet with attention toward nutrition. I think that's really not that mysterious if someone reads the background on it.
This is a huge problem with MFP forums. There are some people who seem to follow this condescending recipe:
1.) Person spends years being overweight and unhealthy
2.) Person finds a reason to change their life, finds MFP, tracks food
3.) Person loses weight doing their plan
4.) Person defends their plan until the ends of the earth against any opposition based upon an n=1 experiment; doesn't accept that there may be more efficient methods of weight loss, fitness, or health
5.) Person expects anyone they encounter to now also be reasonable about diet and fitness, and gives unhelpful advice like "just read more on the internet"
6.) Another overweight person on the forums is not helped at all, or worse, comes away with bad strategies for weight loss. Doesn't lose as much weight as they want and gives up.
Another diet bites the dust.
I make a really simple assumption when working with someone 100+ pounds overweight. If someone 100+ pounds overweight was sensible about diet or exercise, they would already be thin and healthy. It should be assumed by anyone helping them that the obese person needs to start from scratch, relearn how to eat, how to move, etc. Boot Camp is an appropriate analogy. There's no shame in assuming you know bupkis and learning something new. Nick Faldo quit golf even after winning the masters to learn a new swing.
IIFYM is not, by default, easily understood. I've seen several responses in this same forum thread that prove there are many people on MFP that don't understand it fully.
You understood it completely on the first run? Good for you, you must be a health genius. Don't assume everyone else is as smart as you.
Just saying "read about IIFYM and watch these YouTube videos" is horrible advice because it doesn't change behavior. All it does is logically explain how to lose weight without supply the necessary mental and physical tools to actually do it.
It should be assumed that anyone obese needs help from the ground up. That's not condescending at all. I would counter that it is arrogant for an obese person to assume they know what they are doing when they are clearly out of control and have been for some time. I speak from experience. I was 70 pounds overweight myself. I'm sure many of us were or are.
Like I said, I just think we could tone down the opinion that everyone is reasonable or could easily find info on the internet to help them. It's just not that simple at all.
Kettle meet Pot....0 -
DeeJayShank wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and to add to that, when I started MFP I was doing a modified paleo thing influenced strongly by my own past history of being into eating as "natural" and local as possible, although I already thought my leanings toward the woo were a little ridiculous, I also knew I tended to enjoy that sort of thing.
So when I found a paleo vs. "clean eating" (not a term I was then familiar with except as meaning "as paleo as possible" vs. IIFYM discussion, I was interested and initially kind of annoyed at some of the claims by the IIFYM eater (like that McD's wasn't "unhealthy," as I would have claimed it was). In responding to the arguments I did what any sensible person on the internet would do--look up IIFYM and read about what it was.
In reading about what it, and flexible dieting, were, I understood right away that part of the concept was to eat an overall healthy diet with attention toward nutrition. I think that's really not that mysterious if someone reads the background on it.
This is a huge problem with MFP forums. There are some people who seem to follow this condescending recipe:
1.) Person spends years being overweight and unhealthy
2.) Person finds a reason to change their life, finds MFP, tracks food
3.) Person loses weight doing their plan
4.) Person defends their plan until the ends of the earth against any opposition based upon an n=1 experiment; doesn't accept that there may be more efficient methods of weight loss, fitness, or health
5.) Person expects anyone they encounter to now also be reasonable about diet and fitness, and gives unhelpful advice like "just read more on the internet"
6.) Another overweight person on the forums is not helped at all, or worse, comes away with bad strategies for weight loss. Doesn't lose as much weight as they want and gives up.
Another diet bites the dust.
I make a really simple assumption when working with someone 100+ pounds overweight. If someone 100+ pounds overweight was sensible about diet or exercise, they would already be thin and healthy. It should be assumed by anyone helping them that the obese person needs to start from scratch, relearn how to eat, how to move, etc. Boot Camp is an appropriate analogy. There's no shame in assuming you know bupkis and learning something new. Nick Faldo quit golf even after winning the masters to learn a new swing.
IIFYM is not, by default, easily understood. I've seen several responses in this same forum thread that prove there are many people on MFP that don't understand it fully.
You understood it completely on the first run? Good for you, you must be a health genius. Don't assume everyone else is as smart as you.
Just saying "read about IIFYM and watch these YouTube videos" is horrible advice because it doesn't change behavior. All it does is logically explain how to lose weight without supply the necessary mental and physical tools to actually do it.
It should be assumed that anyone obese needs help from the ground up. That's not condescending at all. I would counter that it is arrogant for an obese person to assume they know what they are doing when they are clearly out of control and have been for some time. I speak from experience. I was 70 pounds overweight myself. I'm sure many of us were or are.
Like I said, I just think we could tone down the opinion that everyone is reasonable or could easily find info on the internet to help them. It's just not that simple at all.
the only person who does not understand IFFYM in this thread is you. You have been given numerous links and videos showing it is NOT about eating pop tarts all day, but you keep falling back to that position, which is blatantly wrong.0 -
So you think I only figured it out after I lost the weight? I think you might be unclear on the cause and effect there.DeeJayShank wrote: »I find it laughable that you think someone 100+ pounds overweight has any idea what sensible eating is or how to execute it. If they knew, they would have already.
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The only thing I learned from this thread is that IIFYM means something different to everyone.0
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Well, I can't help that.DeeJayShank wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
6'9". How tall are you?DeeJayShank wrote: »235-240 at 10%? How tall are you?
5'10" . I am about 11% right now and only 170 lbs.
If I can gain 25 pounds of muscle and lose 7 pounds of fat, I'll be 10% BF at 240. If I can gain 21 pounds of muscle and lose 8 pounds of fat, I'll be 10% at 235.
Maybe I can't do it. Maybe I'll only make 230 or something.
Maybe my body can't recover enough to run 10K on upper body and off days and 5K on leg days. Maybe I'll have to run two of each. Or less.
That's why they're goals, not certainties.
ETA:
Per muscle potential sites I've gotten:
Your estimated maximum muscular bodyweight at ~10% bodyfat is: 268.9 lbs
Your estimated maximum bulked bodyweight at ~10% bodyfat is: 279.7 lbs
My goals are far short of that. Even old and broken down, I don't think 240/10% is impossible.
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flyingtanuki wrote: »asflatasapancake wrote: »Well, if you have read through all this stuff OP, kudos to you. I try to follow a balanced diet coupled with exercise. It works for me. Good luck to you!
Yep. No matter what the internet gurus try to pass off on us, a balanced diet and exercise worked pretty well for me too.
I find it amazing how "balanced" somehow equals pizza, pop tarts, and twinkies all day in the minds of some…..0 -
DeeJayShank wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and to add to that, when I started MFP I was doing a modified paleo thing influenced strongly by my own past history of being into eating as "natural" and local as possible, although I already thought my leanings toward the woo were a little ridiculous, I also knew I tended to enjoy that sort of thing.
So when I found a paleo vs. "clean eating" (not a term I was then familiar with except as meaning "as paleo as possible" vs. IIFYM discussion, I was interested and initially kind of annoyed at some of the claims by the IIFYM eater (like that McD's wasn't "unhealthy," as I would have claimed it was). In responding to the arguments I did what any sensible person on the internet would do--look up IIFYM and read about what it was.
In reading about what it, and flexible dieting, were, I understood right away that part of the concept was to eat an overall healthy diet with attention toward nutrition. I think that's really not that mysterious if someone reads the background on it.
This is a huge problem with MFP forums. There are some people who seem to follow this condescending recipe:
1.) Person spends years being overweight and unhealthy
2.) Person finds a reason to change their life, finds MFP, tracks food
3.) Person loses weight doing their plan
4.) Person defends their plan until the ends of the earth against any opposition based upon an n=1 experiment; doesn't accept that there may be more efficient methods of weight loss, fitness, or health
5.) Person expects anyone they encounter to now also be reasonable about diet and fitness, and gives unhelpful advice like "just read more on the internet"
6.) Another overweight person on the forums is not helped at all, or worse, comes away with bad strategies for weight loss. Doesn't lose as much weight as they want and gives up.
Another diet bites the dust.
I make a really simple assumption when working with someone 100+ pounds overweight. If someone 100+ pounds overweight was sensible about diet or exercise, they would already be thin and healthy. It should be assumed by anyone helping them that the obese person needs to start from scratch, relearn how to eat, how to move, etc. Boot Camp is an appropriate analogy. There's no shame in assuming you know bupkis and learning something new. Nick Faldo quit golf even after winning the masters to learn a new swing.
IIFYM is not, by default, easily understood. I've seen several responses in this same forum thread that prove there are many people on MFP that don't understand it fully.
You understood it completely on the first run? Good for you, you must be a health genius. Don't assume everyone else is as smart as you.
Just saying "read about IIFYM and watch these YouTube videos" is horrible advice because it doesn't change behavior. All it does is logically explain how to lose weight without supply the necessary mental and physical tools to actually do it.
It should be assumed that anyone obese needs help from the ground up. That's not condescending at all. I would counter that it is arrogant for an obese person to assume they know what they are doing when they are clearly out of control and have been for some time. I speak from experience. I was 70 pounds overweight myself. I'm sure many of us were or are.
Like I said, I just think we could tone down the opinion that everyone is reasonable or could easily find info on the internet to help them. It's just not that simple at all.
the only person who does not understand IFFYM in this thread is you. You have been given numerous links and videos showing it is NOT about eating pop tarts all day, but you keep falling back to that position, which is blatantly wrong.
I apparently don't understand or eat according to IIFYM, even after listening to Alan and a bunch of people on here explain it. It seems to be more complicated than the initialism states.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
So you think I only figured it out after I lost the weight? I think you might be unclear on the cause and effect there.DeeJayShank wrote: »I find it laughable that you think someone 100+ pounds overweight has any idea what sensible eating is or how to execute it. If they knew, they would have already.
Dude you were 100+ pounds overweight. Why do you think that is?0 -
I actually thought that's what myfitnesspal was all about lol0
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DeeJayShank wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
So you think I only figured it out after I lost the weight? I think you might be unclear on the cause and effect there.DeeJayShank wrote: »I find it laughable that you think someone 100+ pounds overweight has any idea what sensible eating is or how to execute it. If they knew, they would have already.
Dude you were 100+ pounds overweight. Why do you think that is?
Because of people like you giving bad nutritional advice??? Maybe not......0 -
Because I ate too much.DeeJayShank wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
So you think I only figured it out after I lost the weight? I think you might be unclear on the cause and effect there.DeeJayShank wrote: »I find it laughable that you think someone 100+ pounds overweight has any idea what sensible eating is or how to execute it. If they knew, they would have already.
Dude you were 100+ pounds overweight. Why do you think that is?
Now I'm not 100+ pounds overweight. Why do you think that is?
Do you think I got a handle on sensible eating before or after I lost all that weight?
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This discussion has been closed.
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