TDEE method vs MFP
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GuitarJerry wrote: »I can't stand the fluctuations exercise causes. I use TDEE. In my opinion, it's a superior method because you learn more about how many calories it takes to lose, gain, and maintain. Having that knowledge is valuable. But, for me, there is no question about exercise. I don't need any motivation to do that.
Just because you use the MFP method, doesn't mean you can't calculate out TDEE. I have my weekly intake average in an excel spreadsheet and my weight along with the end of each of those periods. This gives me my TDEE. I know what my TDEE is, I just don't eat based on that method.
Also, using the MFP method doesn't mean you have to have extreme fluctuations in your eating. I look at my weekly net, and if I see I'm way under for the week it means I can have some treats on the weekend above my baseline without having to exercise. However, I also don't burn as many calories as someone training for a marathon, so it works different for everyone. The important thing is figuring out what works for you.0 -
christinev297 wrote: »Thanks guys. I'm probably waaay over thinking it...
Yeah, sounds to me like you're over thinking it. For one, if you're cutting at around 1/lb of fat loss per week, you're somewhere around 500 calories in a deficit each day. Therefore, one week isn't going to derail you, at all. You may plateau for the week or lose at a slower rate but in most cases, one/two weeks won't hurt you. I take a 1 week break from resistance training every 12-15 weeks, and haven't seen any issues.0 -
Hm, you guys (and gals) are making me think about this. I may try the TDEE method... According to Fitbit, my TDEE at this point is 2400, so I would just eat 2000 (or a little less) daily for a reduction of about 20%. And I can keep track of my TDEE from Fitbit and adjust as necessary. Right? I would do a 20% reduction no matter how much weight I have to lose, correct?0
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Hm, you guys (and gals) are making me think about this. I may try the TDEE method... According to Fitbit, my TDEE at this point is 2400, so I would just eat 2000 (or a little less) daily for a reduction of about 20%. And I can keep track of my TDEE from Fitbit and adjust as necessary. Right? I would do a 20% reduction no matter how much weight I have to lose, correct?
Yes go by your Fitbit, its an accurate little device
anywhere between 5% to 20% deficit of that figure will see you losing.
20% deficit is considered too much when you have less than 20lbs to lose.
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When using tdee is exercise based on one hour a day. As most say 3-5 day or some such.
So a 3 hour training run on a Sunday is 3 days worth?
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christinev297 wrote: »To those of you who follow the TDEE method. What happens if you have a lazy week or are sick and can't exercise, do you lower your calories or still eat the same?
My impression of tdee is there would be immense pressure to keep to the same exercise levels each and every day.
It's giving me nervous hives just thinking about it lol
Think weekly, not daily, averages. 0 -
If you're using an online calculator it will ask for how many days exercise you do and that will be accounted for in the TDEE figure it gives you.When using tdee is exercise based on one hour a day. As most say 3-5 day or some such.
So a 3 hour training run on a Sunday is 3 days worth?
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leahcollett1 wrote: »hi everyone
i just wondered what the ratio of people on the above methods and the success theyve had? do people find the TDEE method easier/more straight forward? more successful?
the two methods are six of one, half dozen of the other when done correctly and when comparing apples to apples rate of loss goals. The only difference between the two methods is where you account for exercise...with TDEE you account for exercise in your activity level...thus some estimate of those calories are included in your target...with MFP you account for exercise when you log it and that's why you get calories to "eat back"...you're really not eating them back, you're just accounting for that activity.
Pros TDEE:
- eating a consistent amount day to day...you eat the same on a rest day as you do a very active day...it all comes out in the wash at the end of the week
- more representative of how the general population eats
- You don't have to figure out calorie burn estimates which can be difficult
Cons TDEE:
- if you are inconsistent with your exercise and general activity level then your target becomes invalid.
Pros MFP (NEAT):
- can teach you how to properly fuel your fitness endeavors
- very good for people who are inconsistent with their exercise
Cons MFP:
- estimating calorie burns is tough, particularly outside of aerobic activities; many people vastly overestimate their exercise calorie burns
- in my experience it can lead to a lot of disordered thinking in RE to food and fitness...compulsive exercise because you had some cake for example...or exercise bulimia, etc.
I used both methods at one time or the other and both work exactly the same...again, six of one.0 -
RunRutheeRun wrote: »Hm, you guys (and gals) are making me think about this. I may try the TDEE method... According to Fitbit, my TDEE at this point is 2400, so I would just eat 2000 (or a little less) daily for a reduction of about 20%. And I can keep track of my TDEE from Fitbit and adjust as necessary. Right? I would do a 20% reduction no matter how much weight I have to lose, correct?
Yes go by your Fitbit, its an accurate little device anywhere between 5% to 20% deficit of that figure will see you losing.
20% deficit is considered too much when you have less than 20lbs to lose.
I haven't heard this before! Do you mind me asking what your source is? I'd like to read more about the reasoning. Is this other people's experience also? When someone gets down to only having 20lbs left, it's typical to reduce the % deficit?0 -
Most, if not all, of the reason is that you have less fat available to provide the missing calories.RunRutheeRun wrote: »Hm, you guys (and gals) are making me think about this. I may try the TDEE method... According to Fitbit, my TDEE at this point is 2400, so I would just eat 2000 (or a little less) daily for a reduction of about 20%. And I can keep track of my TDEE from Fitbit and adjust as necessary. Right? I would do a 20% reduction no matter how much weight I have to lose, correct?
Yes go by your Fitbit, its an accurate little device anywhere between 5% to 20% deficit of that figure will see you losing.
20% deficit is considered too much when you have less than 20lbs to lose.
I haven't heard this before! Do you mind me asking what your source is? I'd like to read more about the reasoning. Is this other people's experience also? When someone gets down to only having 20lbs left, it's typical to reduce the % deficit?
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@deguelloTex I have no source, I'm just quoting a generalisation from past forum posts on the subject, its to do with losing too much muscle rather than fat if deficit is too big, thats how I perceived it anyway.....*shrugs*.0
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RunRutheeRun wrote: »
If you're using an online calculator it will ask for how many days exercise you do and that will be accounted for in the TDEE figure it gives you.When using tdee is exercise based on one hour a day. As most say 3-5 day or some such.
So a 3 hour training run on a Sunday is 3 days worth?
But what does 1 day equate to? If I do 1 hour in the gym 5 days a week but run for a total of 7 hours at the weekend is that just 7 days, even though 2 days exercise is greater then the total of 5?
Or do I go by hours of excise and say I do 12 hours a week, if so what activity level does that equate to?0 -
RunRutheeRun wrote: »@deguelloTex I have no source, I'm just quoting a generalisation from past forum posts on the subject, its to do with losing too much muscle rather than fat if deficit is too big, thats how I perceived it anyway.....*shrugs*.
Gotcha, well thanks for mentioning that anyways! It'll give me something to look into.
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Right. If you don't have enough fat to provide the calories missing from your diet, your body will get those calories from elsewhere: bone, muscle, organs, etc. You don't want your deficit to be greater than the amount that your fat can provide. That's why it is typically recommended to reduce your deficit as you get closer to goal: you have less fat and risk the calories being scavenged from elsewhere. No bueno.RunRutheeRun wrote: »@deguelloTex I have no source, I'm just quoting a generalisation from past forum posts on the subject, its to do with losing too much muscle rather than fat if deficit is too big, thats how I perceived it anyway.....*shrugs*.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
Right. If you don't have enough fat to provide the calories missing from your diet, your body will get those calories from elsewhere: bone, muscle, organs, etc. You don't want your deficit to be greater than the amount that your fat can provide. That's why it is typically recommended to reduce your deficit as you get closer to goal: you have less fat and risk the calories being scavenged from elsewhere. No bueno.RunRutheeRun wrote: »@deguelloTex I have no source, I'm just quoting a generalisation from past forum posts on the subject, its to do with losing too much muscle rather than fat if deficit is too big, thats how I perceived it anyway.....*shrugs*.
Y'all just made my Friday! That makes perfect sense. I adjusted my deficit to 10% from 20% since I have 8lbs to lose, so I'll see how that works for a couple of weeks.
Sorry to hijack the thread!0 -
To be fair, the body isn't a perfect 100% fat-burning machine, so we also lose LBM when we lose fat, but the idea is to minimize that negative aspect of losing weight.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Right. If you don't have enough fat to provide the calories missing from your diet, your body will get those calories from elsewhere: bone, muscle, organs, etc. You don't want your deficit to be greater than the amount that your fat can provide. That's why it is typically recommended to reduce your deficit as you get closer to goal: you have less fat and risk the calories being scavenged from elsewhere. No bueno.RunRutheeRun wrote: »@deguelloTex I have no source, I'm just quoting a generalisation from past forum posts on the subject, its to do with losing too much muscle rather than fat if deficit is too big, thats how I perceived it anyway.....*shrugs*.
Y'all just made my Friday! That makes perfect sense. I adjusted my deficit to 10% from 20% since I have 8lbs to lose, so I'll see how that works for a couple of weeks.
Sorry to hijack the thread!
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RunRutheeRun wrote: »
If you're using an online calculator it will ask for how many days exercise you do and that will be accounted for in the TDEE figure it gives you.When using tdee is exercise based on one hour a day. As most say 3-5 day or some such.
So a 3 hour training run on a Sunday is 3 days worth?
But what does 1 day equate to? If I do 1 hour in the gym 5 days a week but run for a total of 7 hours at the weekend is that just 7 days, even though 2 days exercise is greater then the total of 5?
Or do I go by hours of excise and say I do 12 hours a week, if so what activity level does that equate to?
what you have to realize is that these calculators simply provide you with a reasonably good starting point...it's all an estimate...you don't actually have a TDEE of exactly XXXX calories. Basically, you do the best you can to select an activity level that most resembles what you do...from there, you make adjustments as per real world results.
I don't eat the calories that any calculator has ever provided me with...I only used the calculator as a tool to come up with a reasonable estimate to get started with...my calorie targets are based on my own data and real world results...these trump any calculator. These calculators are far from gospel so stop treating them like they are...look at them as a simple tool to help you get started, not the be all and end all.0 -
christinev297 wrote: »To those of you who follow the TDEE method. What happens if you have a lazy week or are sick and can't exercise, do you lower your calories or still eat the same?
My impression of tdee is there would be immense pressure to keep to the same exercise levels each and every day.
It's giving me nervous hives just thinking about it lol
too much minutia here...get out of the mindset of day to day or even week to week. yes, you do have to be consistent and get in regular exercise...but the world doesn't go to *kitten* because you had a bad day or a bad week or whatever...look at the bigger picture...your health, fitness, weight, etc is predicated on your overall lifestyle...not a week here or there or a special occasion, etc. Stop drowning yourself in minutia and look at the much bigger picture.
I usually ride about 60 - 80 miles per week and get in a 5K or two and lift 2-3x per week...I haven't done *kitten* this week because I've been in budget committee hearings at work all week from about 9 AM - 9PM. I'm no worse for the wear (other than my brain fecking hurts)...this week would really be a statistical outlier for me...it's not how I live my life overall.0 -
I'm not treating them like gospel but to use a tool you have to understand the basic premise it is working on. The point is days of exercise is a meaningless reference point because the effort on each day can be wildly different.
I would like to know fron people who have been using tdee and therefore already have data which I don't have, how they calculate their exercise.
I can the use the tool with knowledge from those who it has worked for for a better starting point.0 -
@FatMoojor check out a TDEE calculator and you'll see the exercise variations...try scoobyworkshop..you can play around with it, choose less, then choose more exercise and see the difference in calories it gives you.
Its not complicated 0 -
leahcollett1 wrote: »leahcollett1 wrote: »yes this is what i found out, however as a whole im really consistant and i love les mill combat i think its awesome so i get my motivation from that, 80lbs is a massive achievement!!!
I love Les Mills Combat too. Done it twice so far, waiting for school to start again and I'll do it a third time. Just no idea how many calories it burns, I'm guessing not that many though.
Yep it burns between 400-800 calories depending on fitness and individual effort
I love Les Mills too and use it for my cardio on my non lifting days, but even as a guy, I doubt think burns would be that high.
Ditto. 400 maybe for a 55 minutes class, but even then I have doubts, as the effort isn't constant.0 -
leahcollett1 wrote: »leahcollett1 wrote: »yes this is what i found out, however as a whole im really consistant and i love les mill combat i think its awesome so i get my motivation from that, 80lbs is a massive achievement!!!
I love Les Mills Combat too. Done it twice so far, waiting for school to start again and I'll do it a third time. Just no idea how many calories it burns, I'm guessing not that many though.
Yep it burns between 400-800 calories depending on fitness and individual effort
For 55 minutes I get about 450 calories when I was heavier it was a good 600
I love Les Mills too and use it for my cardio on my non lifting days, but even as a guy, I doubt think burns would be that high.
Ditto. 400 maybe for a 55 minutes class, but even then I have doubts, as the effort isn't constant.
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RunRutheeRun wrote: »@FatMoojor check out a TDEE calculator and you'll see the exercise variations...try scoobyworkshop..you can play around with it, choose less, then choose more exercise and see the difference in calories it gives you.
Its not complicated
I'm guessing I'm not putting the question correctly. The use of the calculators is easy. I know how to use them and have used a number to work out an average based on the variations from them.
My question is to people who have been using TDEfor a while as to what they do and how well that ties in with the standard calcs.
E.g. If they are doing 1 hour a day for 5 times a week then the 3-5 day number was close but they adjusted by X, or you have someone doing 15 hours a week training they did Y.
Is tdee better for when everyday training is of the same length, I guess is the simplistic way of asking.0 -
christinev297 wrote: »To those of you who follow the TDEE method. What happens if you have a lazy week or are sick and can't exercise, do you lower your calories or still eat the same?
My impression of tdee is there would be immense pressure to keep to the same exercise levels each and every day.
It's giving me nervous hives just thinking about it lol
For me, life isnt all about losing weight, so if i dont exercise that week because lofe gets in the way, i recognize that i wont lose. And then the next week i am back on the horse. Or if i know i cant exercise i drop my intake a few hundred calories0 -
RunRutheeRun wrote: »@FatMoojor check out a TDEE calculator and you'll see the exercise variations...try scoobyworkshop..you can play around with it, choose less, then choose more exercise and see the difference in calories it gives you.
Its not complicated
I'm guessing I'm not putting the question correctly. The use of the calculators is easy. I know how to use them and have used a number to work out an average based on the variations from them.
My question is to people who have been using TDEfor a while as to what they do and how well that ties in with the standard calcs.
E.g. If they are doing 1 hour a day for 5 times a week then the 3-5 day number was close but they adjusted by X, or you have someone doing 15 hours a week training they did Y.
Is tdee better for when everyday training is of the same length, I guess is the simplistic way of asking.
yeah, pretty much...it has to be pretty general to account for a large population...so yeah...you workout 5 days per week and pick 3-5...make adjustments as appropriate over the next several weeks.
it doesn't matter if everyday training is the same length...I have days where I train twice per day...days when I train once per day...get out of the mindset of day to day...big picture...look at weeks...everything nets out in the end. so you're going to have days where you might be in a bigger deficit or smaller deficit or no deficit...but at the end of the week, it all comes out in the wash. You're really overthinking this and drowning in the minutia.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I don't eat the calories that any calculator has ever provided me with...I only used the calculator as a tool to come up with a reasonable estimate to get started with...my calorie targets are based on my own data and real world results...these trump any calculator. These calculators are far from gospel so stop treating them like they are...look at them as a simple tool to help you get started, not the be all and end all.
:drinker:
Listen to this man.0 -
RunRutheeRun wrote: »@FatMoojor check out a TDEE calculator and you'll see the exercise variations...try scoobyworkshop..you can play around with it, choose less, then choose more exercise and see the difference in calories it gives you.
Its not complicated
I'm guessing I'm not putting the question correctly. The use of the calculators is easy. I know how to use them and have used a number to work out an average based on the variations from them.
My question is to people who have been using TDEfor a while as to what they do and how well that ties in with the standard calcs.
E.g. If they are doing 1 hour a day for 5 times a week then the 3-5 day number was close but they adjusted by X, or you have someone doing 15 hours a week training they did Y.
Is tdee better for when everyday training is of the same length, I guess is the simplistic way of asking.
Ok I get ya, personally I do same hours of workouts every week without fail, if I didn't for some reason then I'd have to eat a bit less unless it was only a one off day or two.
It's a matter of gathering your own stats over a period of say a month...
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RunRutheeRun wrote: »RunRutheeRun wrote: »@FatMoojor check out a TDEE calculator and you'll see the exercise variations...try scoobyworkshop..you can play around with it, choose less, then choose more exercise and see the difference in calories it gives you.
Its not complicated
I'm guessing I'm not putting the question correctly. The use of the calculators is easy. I know how to use them and have used a number to work out an average based on the variations from them.
My question is to people who have been using TDEfor a while as to what they do and how well that ties in with the standard calcs.
E.g. If they are doing 1 hour a day for 5 times a week then the 3-5 day number was close but they adjusted by X, or you have someone doing 15 hours a week training they did Y.
Is tdee better for when everyday training is of the same length, I guess is the simplistic way of asking.
I think it doesn't matter when you get the exercise in as long as it gets done I have to do 1-3 hours a week so I tend to do 4 50 minute classes
Ok I get ya, personally I do same hours of workouts every week without fail, if I didn't for some reason then I'd have to eat a bit less unless it was only a one off day or two.
It's a matter of gathering your own stats over a period of say a month...
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RunRutheeRun wrote: »@FatMoojor check out a TDEE calculator and you'll see the exercise variations...try scoobyworkshop..you can play around with it, choose less, then choose more exercise and see the difference in calories it gives you.
Its not complicated
I'm guessing I'm not putting the question correctly. The use of the calculators is easy. I know how to use them and have used a number to work out an average based on the variations from them.
My question is to people who have been using TDEfor a while as to what they do and how well that ties in with the standard calcs.
E.g. If they are doing 1 hour a day for 5 times a week then the 3-5 day number was close but they adjusted by X, or you have someone doing 15 hours a week training they did Y.
Is tdee better for when everyday training is of the same length, I guess is the simplistic way of asking.
it's trial and error. You pick an activity range, plug in your stats, see the magic number appear, try eating at said magic number for a length of time (probably about 4 weeks) to see what your weight does and if the number is appropriate, and tweak when/if necessary to fit you more personally. trial and error.0 -
RunRutheeRun wrote: »
If you're using an online calculator it will ask for how many days exercise you do and that will be accounted for in the TDEE figure it gives you.When using tdee is exercise based on one hour a day. As most say 3-5 day or some such.
So a 3 hour training run on a Sunday is 3 days worth?
That's the thing. I walk for roughly 3 hours everyday, 7 days a week. But there's no way I'd call myself highly active, which is intense sport 7 days a week according to the tdee activity level calculators. But I don't fit into the 3 days a week thing either. That's another reason why going the tdee route worries me.
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